Seven Semper Fi: Three months to go; here’s what to do.

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WOODY’S WINDOWS WATCH By Woody Leonhard Time’s running out! Microsoft’s still scheduled to deliver its last Windows 7 security patches on January 14,
[See the full post at: Seven Semper Fi: Three months to go; here’s what to do.]

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jburk07, pneufspneufs, SueW, deuce120, abbodi86, AJNorth, Pim

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Quoting from the Newsletter article: “As Amy explains, any business can buy an ESU subscription through a Microsoft Cloud Solution Provider — although the process might be somewhat complex. We’re working on a way to get ESUs out to normal, individual users in a way that doesn’t require a Ph.D. in Microsoft licensology. Would you pay $50 or so to get an extra year of Win7 security patches? ”

Great idea, to help those of us who want to keep Windows 7 (perhaps along with some other OS). I have a small, one-person business. So, if  there is a way to simplify the purchase of an ESU subscription for small businesses, I definitely would like to hear about it. According to what I have read, in this context, the concept of “business” includes those with just one employee.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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CWO4Karpster, Fred

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That’s the goal – to get official Win7 patches for individuals.

Two big questions – cost and confusion. As Amy explains, getting a small business (even a business of one) signed up is complicated. I’m hoping that Amy and Susan will be able to come up with a simple step-by-step method for normal people to take advantage of Microsoft’s extended support.

I’m not at all convinced it’ll be possible. But if anyone can untie the Gordian knot, they’re the ones.

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L95, jburk07, HH33, OscarCP, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, CWO4Karpster

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I would be interested in paying $50 for the first year.  From a cost/benefit perspective, $50 is a lot cheaper than buying a new computer or upgrading my computer to Win 10 and learning the Windows 10 world.  The extra time would allow me to analyze the options (Yes, I realize that I could have done that already but that is water under the bridge–already looked for a win 8.1 machine but have not found one yet) and not be in the rush of people to go to Win 10 when last Win 7 update occurs.

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I have Windows 7 Professional on my computer,  but I’m not a business.  I’m just a home user.  I spent some time looking at various Microsoft articles and FAQs and it appears that the extended support would not be offered to me because I don’t have a business.   I have a couple of questions about this:

1. Is there a way to get extended support for the Professional version of Windows 7 if you’re just a home user?  I’d be willing to pay even more than the $50 being discussed on the askwoody.com website,  as long as the price is reasonable.

2.  Will my anti-virus software provide the Windows Updates patches to me?   The AskWoody Plus Newsletter of Nov. 25, 2018 has a short discussion about anti-malware products in one of the paragraphs of the newsletter,  but I don’t think I understand what it’s saying.   Will the anti-malware products provide the same level of protection as the Windows Updates patches?   If so,  will it only be offered by some of the anti-malware companies,  and which anti-malware companies are they?

I will appreciate any advice you can provide.

 

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Endora

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1. Wait. Moves are afoot to find out.
2. AV software does not provide Windows patches.
   You need to use an AV that supports W7 after January – i.e. not a Microsoft product.

cheers, Paul

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Hopefully, before January there will be a deeper-delve into “0Patch”:

Worth considering: 0patch for Win7 after January 2020

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/worth-considering-0patch-for-win7-after-january-2020/

Perhaps there could also be a how-to on running Windows 7 (and other versions, for that matter) in virtual environments, including under Linux.

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Endora, LHiggins, Geo

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0patch is an excellent choice, but I don’t recommend it because it’s hard for me to recommend installing third-party fixes into Windows binaries.

As for a string of 0patch patches after Win7 goes belly-up… that’s certainly worth considering, but I’m not sure how we’d be able to cover it in advance.

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LHiggins, rontpxz81, OscarCP, AJNorth

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Can ØPatch be worse than the muck MSFT has been rolling out lately?

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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LHiggins, rontpxz81

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I’ve been looking into 0patch, too and emailed the 0Patch Help Center about it. Here’s some of what they said:

Q: Do I need to have a Pro version of Windows 7 to purchase a Pro subscription – or will those patches work on the Home version as well?
A: You don’t need Windows 7 Pro – all Windows 7 versions including Home will be receiving our post-EOS micropatches.

So – this will work on any version of Windows – an 0patch Pro subscription will work on Win 7 Home.

But…

Q: Would I need a paid Pro subscription to receive the EOL patches after Jan 2020, even though I am a home user?
A: Correct, you will need a paid PRO subscription to receive the EOL patches.

OK – so that means everyone who wants to get patches through 0patch will need to pay for them.

I also asked about how the patches will work if you are not online continually, and also about how long they plan to provide Win 7 0patches.

Q:  Will my computer would need to be online continuously, or will it just “catch up” with patches once it goes back online after a patch has been issued?
A: Micropatches are delivered to your computer automatically when it’s online, but once they’re there, they’re getting applied when needed whether the computer is online or not. So yes, 0patch will “catch up” when you go back online.

Q: How long will 0patch issue Win 7 patches?
A: We plan to provide Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 post-EOS micropatches for three years

Sounds like something worth considering to keep Win 7 alive after Jan and it would be great to get more information on both 0patch and MS’s newest announcement about patches.

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SueW, Endora, AJNorth, jburk07

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Open question:

How much would you pay for Win7 extended patches?

$50 for the first year (recognizing it’ll go up – at least double – in the second year)?

$100 for the first year?

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I’d pay $300 for 3 years until 2023 with no Telemetry included in the W7 Security only patches. But I rather maybe try and get some Windows 8/8.1 Pro OEM Licenses through the retail channels to go along with the One Laptop that’s running Windows 7 Pro Under a Windows 8 Pro license downgrade option and that already has rights to 8.1.

Also as part of the $300 I really wish that MS would offer up a final Windows 7 Jan 2020 EOL convenience Roll-UP and I’d pay an extra $50 for that if it was guaranteed  Telemetry free. And, If I pay that $300, then I would want any Windows 7 Home machine to get upgraded to at least Windows 7 Pro under any extended W7 security updates purchasing agreement for consumer Windows 7 users. That said all but one of my Laptops is running Windows 7 Pro via an already purchased Pro upgrade license in addition the one Laptop that’s already 8/8.1 Pro Licensed and running W7 Pro via downgrade rights.

Windows 10 is too Alpha stage currently and too much end user Beta Testing Pain when all that Alpha and Beta should be fixed at the QA/QC stage with only the insiders volunteering as the cannon fodder.

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Kranium

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In my case, if I was still using Windows (7), I wouldn’t be willing to pay much, despite my contempt for Windows 10.  It’s not solving the problem.

It’s been four and a half years, and while I keep hearing from some parts of the tech press about how much better Windows 10 is than when it first arrived, by my evaluation, it’s not any better, and it probably never will be.  That’s because the things I most dislike about Windows 10 are not bugs or various rough edges, but its very design parameters.  I could see by the end of 2015 that there was no future for me in the WaaS world that Microsoft has planned, and four years’ worth of observation hasn’t changed that a bit.  It’s not that I have incredible powers of prediction… it was really pretty obvious where MS was headed, and they’re still headed that way now.

MS wants everyone on Windows 10 as soon as possible… we know that.  They’re willing to play the long game, though.  They want people on 10 as soon as possible so they can monetize them as soon as possible, but if they remain on 7 and volunteer to be monetized by paying for updates, that’s good too.  At the end of the extended-extended support, the people who paid all that money will be no better off than they are right now.

Windows versions have always had limited life spans.  It was never a problem before, at least not to the degree that it is right now, because if one Windows version was a klunker, everyone knew they could wait for the next one, which MS would have made really good to try to make up for the revenue lost on the bad version.  That’s not in play anymore.  Until MS tells us otherwise, I see no reason not to take them at their word about how Windows 10 is the last Windows.  There will be no “good” version coming down the pike, and there’s been no evidence at all that MS aims to change the direction they’re in now for the current version

A problem like this needs a permanent solution.  The way I see it, you can get used to the dark new reality of being a Windows user, beta-testing software you paid for, having less control over your own property than you should, while being plied with whatever monetization schemes Microsoft can think of, or you can stop being a Windows user.

Everything else just delays the inevitable, even if you plan to continue to use Windows 7 beyond its supported life forever.  That may be the ideal, but it won’t last that long.  The hardware that Windows 7 runs on will continue to age, breaking down or becoming obsolete, and the software that is developed for Windows will stop working on 7, one program at a time, until 7 is functionally useless with any modern software or hardware.  Even if it was still supported with security updates forever, that would still happen.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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CynicalSnail

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Unfortunately, I must agree.  Aside from the things that just don’t work in Win 10, there are all the design flaws that are technically not bugs, but are architectural failures.  Cortana, telemetry, the user interface (flat design, no defined borders, no real start menu,…), the update maelstrom, the microsoft account requirements, no activation keys without internet access, etc., so forth…

I’m also not a fan of the increasing help the operating system wants to provide.  For instance –  I’ll manage my printers, please.  And stop loading new drivers without my permission.

So, I’m miffed with the thought of paying to support my current working high quality OS because the software company has done such a poor job with literally ALL the subsequent versions as to make moving forward NOT an option.  Even if I wanted to retire Win 7 there is simply no Windows based alternative to consider.

From the movie Armageddon, “It’s not a choice, it’s a lack of options.”

Honestly though – if I just turn windows updates off permanently, aside from my computer running better, I probably won’t really have any issues until my application software stops having Win 7 updates.

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CynicalSnail, SueW, Charlie, AJNorth

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[HH33]

Open question:

How much would you pay for Win7 extended patches?

I’d certainly be willing to pay $5o for each of our three W7 Pro machines to stay updated for another year.  Even if I wanted to transition our machines – to Linux, W8.1, even W10 (yeah, right) – right now, we simply don’t have time in our schedules to devote the time to dealing with it before W7 EOL, so paying MS’s $50/machine ransom for the first year is worth it to us.  It doesn’t solve the “long-term OS choice” issue, but it gives us time to breathe.

The more expensive update costs for the second and third years may be another matter entirely, but that will be, as they say, a “game time decision.”

In the meantime, if AskWoody can arrange a simpler way for AW members to obtain the paid updates,  that would be hugely appreciated.

Group 7-L (W7, heading toward Linux)
W7 Pro x64 SP1
Linux Mint 18.3 Cinnamon 64-bit
Linux Mint 17.1 Xfce 32-bit

• This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by HH33.

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jburk07, AJNorth

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I am definitely interested in W7 extended patches. $50 or whatever would be worth another year.

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Endora, SusanS, LHiggins, jburk07, SueW, HH33, OscarCP, Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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I’ve comments several times before that I have to keep running Win 7 because I use Windows Media Center as my cable TV alternative.  It’s not supported on Win 10.  I already have an alternative to MSFT’s channel provider service so I won’t be affected in that regard.  The question about security patches going forward is interesting but I only use this PC for cable TV and streaming Amazon Prime and Netflix.  No other Internet use.  Security risk of this PC is minimal.

the question of whether I need an alternative to MSFT Security Essentials is still open in my mind.

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DAVe3283

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You’ll definitely need an alternate to Microsoft Security Essentials. It’s getting cut back on Win7, too, although MS may continue updates for a little while.

Dumb question. Why not move to Roku? They’re down to $27, and bound to go lower during the Black Friday rush. I use Roku and Plex Media Server. Works like a champ.

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so far woody, I have not seen any MSE EOL nags on Win7 yet as noted in this MSFN forum topic:
https://msfn.org/board/topic/180384-has-microsoft-security-essentials-started-to-nag/

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One important thing which is missing from the article:
Backup your current Windows 7 licence!!

The MSFT Windows 7 activation servers will no doubt be shutdown at some point beyond Jan 14th 2020 for homeusers. If, however, you need to re-install Windows 7 beyond this date, trouble may lay ahead..

I’ve used Advanced Tokens Manager 3.5 RC5 by Josh Cell Softwares and have them stored safely offline should the worst ever happen. This utility works for all versions of Windows 7 (although the majorgeeks link says it’s up to Windows Vista…tut tut!)

After a fresh OS installation, run the program and re-introduce your existing (saved) licence, et voila..after a restart Windows 7 is activated

I’ve done this countless times on fresh installs without issue. Patching, is another story that entails downloading and saving from the MSFT Catalog whether Group A or Group B. This IMO is where Group A has one over Group B.

There’s no need for Win8.1 or W10 as these are digital licences.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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LHiggins, HH33, jburk07, rontpxz81, David F, Kranium, AJNorth, Myst

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I doubt they will close the activation servers

Win 8.1 licenses is similar to Win 7, nothing digital or tied

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jburk07, AJNorth, woody

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Win 8.1 licenses is similar to Win 7, nothing digital or tied

Perhaps you would care to explain why Win8.1 activates automatically on the same device once connected online (same as W10) whereas Win7 needs it’s product key/phone-in after a fresh installation on the same device? Therein lays the difference

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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That’s OEM activation
Windows 7 support OEM:SLP activation too (the loophole which unofficial activators used)

in Windows 8.1, the OEM key is embedded in the MSDM table (and it’s unique per machine to close the above loophole)

Windows 10 OEM activation works like Win 8.1, in addition to the new digital license mechanism

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AJNorth

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I’ve also used advanced tokens manager on many oem/retail versions of Windows 7 Basic/ Starter/Home Premium/Pro successfully for people over the years.
My point being, that once one has lost their activation irrespective of whether OEM or Retail upon a fresh reinstallation on the same device, it will be more difficult to get this on Windows 7 beyond Jan 2020..watch this space.
1st rule in computing, backup, backup and backup

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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jburk07, AJNorth, Myst, abbodi86

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activations will still be valid for Win7, even past EOL
some XP users have found a way to still activate their XP OSes, even though they’re way past EOL

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It’s not a case of “finding a way”, as if we were talking about keeping your cash in an offshore island, or getting a new TV without paying for it. You just use the Microsoft method, i.e, make a simple phone call. Even that’s free.

In fact, they’ve made it even easier now. If you choose the smartphone option at the prompt, they send you a text with this link:

http://md.vivr.io/1T2DNjA

and I activate Windows right there on my phone.

I’ve kept it as a bookmark, so I can activate any Windows installation, instantly.

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jburk07, PKCano

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I don’t see them closing down the Win7 activation servers anytime soon. Seeing as I can still activate WinXP.

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AJNorth, Nibbled To Death By Ducks

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There are still folks using XP and that PC may have a drive/MB/other failure and so some government agency still needing XP, and even folks with million dollar CNC milling machines that are only able to work properly and safely on XP. So MS will still keep the activation servers going on XP and Windows Vista, 7, 8/8.1 as well for long past that EOL date. EOL is only for free support and security support ending and there are all sorts of special paid support where MS will provide some form of fee based options.

There is just too much infrastructure depending on MS’s OS products for any activation servers to be shut down, and Windows 7 Enterprise customers will still be activating 7 for a good while longer.

There is sill industrial equipment running older versions of Windows that still work for the task they were intended and many SMBs dependent on that equipment that can not afford to spend millions that their budgets will not allow. MS will not want to cause any disruptions in their parts supply chains what with even some New MS devices using parts that are produced with XP/Earlier OSs running on that  production machinery, in the US and overseas.    Go and watch some of those YouTube videos of those Plastic Injection Molding machines, metal stamping machines, others. And even in  2019 there is plenty of XP based systems running those old machines that make parts for every manner of markets including parts for the XBONE and other MS products.

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Would I be willing to pay $50 for an extra year of Windows-7 updates?  H*** Yes!

Until WIndows-10 get serious about becoming and remaining a stable OS, there is no compelling need to switch.  The much-vaunted security enhancement is just that–hot air.  The needless complexity of Windows-10 was brought on by MS’s decision to pander to the gaming, mobile, synching users at the expense of all those users who just need a simple reliable OS.  (Think of all those personal and small business users who just want to network a few PCs together at a single office location and backup in-house.  Obviously, ignored.)

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Absolutely!  $50 per year for continued Microsoft patch support for my Win7Pro machine would be well worth it to me; however, I am the kind of guy who looks both ways before crossing a one-way street, so I already have an ASUS Chrome notebook loaded and waiting.

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[ewagstaf]

Tied to Windows 7 because I run a lovable old Office 2003 setup that’s not completely portable to Windows 10.  $50 per year is the LOWER limit of what I’d pay to continue Win7Pro patching into 2020 and beyond!

• This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by ewagstaf.

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ewagstaf wrote:

$50 per year is the LOWER limit of what I’d pay to continue Win7Pro patching into 2020 and beyond!

You and I need to play poker some time.

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AlexEiffel

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I’ll raise that to pay $100 a year indefinitely to keep using 7 Pro.

In this installment of poker, if you don’t find a way around upgrading to 10, you lose.

Wait, I’ll bump on the turn, make that $200.

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I’d be delighted to pay Microsoft their x$ per year to continue Win7Pro patching through 2023. I truly hope someone can find a simple/EZ way for individuals and very SMB to sign–up for ESU as right now it is daunting to say the very least…

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Yes, I’d pay for a year or two of Windows 7 support for one of the 4 computers in the house.  If MS wants to make money, there are some, like me, who’d rather pay yearly for a stable and known OS than buy a Win 10 computer and half the time not know which patch borked the system.

My husband’s laptop is in daily use. I’d pay to keep him on 7 – less headaches for me. Me, I can surf on linux or android so I’m not worried about my computers. His computer in the basement I can pull off the internet just like I did with his 2K and XP. He can still get his work done without being online.

Got coffee?

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jburk07

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Woody, you didn’t mention the Windows 8.1 option. (Update: Actually, you did mention it, at the end of the article.) Either find yourself a retail Windows 8.1 license (not an easy task these days), or purchase a good quality used Windows 8.1 computer. And if you install and configure Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

Going the Windows 8.1 route will get you three additional years of support from Microsoft. And all of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1.

There is one problem that was not mentioned: Even with Windows 7 extended support beyond January 2020, some software won’t work. For example, tax prep software. I believe it was Turbo Tax who has already stated that their software will no longer work (that is, for the 2019 tax year) on a Windows 7 machine. I am not optimistic that they will relax that for those who have purchased additional extended support for a Windows 7 computer.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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AJNorth, Steve, LHiggins

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MrJimPhelps wrote:

Woody, you didn’t mention the Windows 8.1 option. (Update: Actually, you did mention it, at the end of the article.) Either find yourself a retail Windows 8.1 license (not an easy task these days), or purchase a good quality used Windows 8.1 computer. And if you install and configure Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

Going the Windows 8.1 route will get you three additional years of support from Microsoft. And all of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1.

There is one problem that was not mentioned: Even with Windows 7 extended support beyond January 2020, some software won’t work. For example, tax prep software. I believe it was Turbo Tax who has already stated that their software will no longer work (that is, for the 2019 tax year) on a Windows 7 machine. I am not optimistic that they will relax that for those who have purchased additional extended support for a Windows 7 computer.

Mr. JimPhelps….why wouldn’t the online Turbo Tax filing continue to work?  I could understand that they may no longer make Win 7 downloadable tax software.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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One of the issues in going from Windows 7 directly to Windows 8.1 is that you will be able to keep your personal files, but not your apps.

Doing an intermediate upgrade to Windows 8 allows you to keep both.

Then, upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1

I would also suggest going to the WSUS Offline Update site and pre-downloading all Windows 7 updates, up to and including the last ones that will be offered at EOL.

 

 

 

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I think you mean upgrading from Win7 to Win8.0 first, and then from Win8 (or 8.0) to Win8.1 to keep existing files and programs while upgrading

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I know anonymous could not have edited their post within five seconds, let alone all these hours later. So I think your point is made clear in the original

Doing an intermediate upgrade to Windows 8 allows you to keep both.

Then, upgrade from Windows 8 to 8.1

Windows8 was not known as 8.0, except in hindsight.

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? says:

seems strange Microsoft is offering to support Windows 7 past January 2020 for sole proprietors (home users) after spending so much time and money working to move us onto WinX…

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Anonymous: They thought it better and figured out that they can still make money off Win 7 by charging people for patches beyond its official EOL. And that might well cover their expenses not yet paid off with money from some other income sources, and still  leave them with some worthwhile residual profit after that. The real tricky par, for them, is that there has to be enough of people sticking with Win 7 for this to be financially worth doing. I suppose that, after looking carefully at the way things are going, maybe that is what they expect to happen, at least for another year, or two, or three…

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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[pmcjr6142]

pmcjr6142 wrote:

MrJimPhelps wrote:

Woody, you didn’t mention the Windows 8.1 option. (Update: Actually, you did mention it, at the end of the article.) Either find yourself a retail Windows 8.1 license (not an easy task these days), or purchase a good quality used Windows 8.1 computer. And if you install and configure Classic Shell in Windows 8.1, you can configure it to make Windows 8.1 look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

Going the Windows 8.1 route will get you three additional years of support from Microsoft. And all of your Windows 7 software will work under Windows 8.1.

There is one problem that was not mentioned: Even with Windows 7 extended support beyond January 2020, some software won’t work. For example, tax prep software. I believe it was Turbo Tax who has already stated that their software will no longer work (that is, for the 2019 tax year) on a Windows 7 machine. I am not optimistic that they will relax that for those who have purchased additional extended support for a Windows 7 computer.

Mr. JimPhelps….why wouldn’t the online Turbo Tax filing continue to work?  I could understand that they may no longer make Win 7 downloadable tax software.

This info from Turbo Tax FAQs answers my own question.  To say Turbo Tax will not work with Win 7 after Microsoft’s end of life support applies to the downloadable version.  You can still use the online version.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

• This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by pmcjr6142.

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MrJimPhelps

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I appreciate the mention of Newegg and refurbished win 10 computers, something I hadn’t been thinking of.  My win 7 laptop must be 10 years old and it’s time I replaced it.  I found a refurbished laptop with win 10 pro, 512Gig SSD, 16GB ram and lots of I/O available.  A nice machine for less than $400.  I was going to wait for Black Friday but this will be much more capable for the amount I was prepared to spend.

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Its getting close to the time when I throw away my old Windows 7 laptop and replace it with a Chromebook. For someone like me who doesn t use it for business and only surfs the web and exchanges Email with friends and relatives it just not worth a lot of money.

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At the risk of offending the many posters here with their entirely justified and understandable reluctance to adopt Win10, could I request that Woody and the moderators consider establishing a topic or better yet, a Knowledge Base article detailing the road for those long-time Win7 Group B members, such as myself, who have now sadly decided to collaborate, show the white flag, put up their hands and go along quietly to convert their machines to Win10? (yes, yes, give me the white flower now…)

An AKB2xxxxxxxx article detailing the list of hazardous updates to avoid and general methodology would be most welcome. Speaking personally, I run Windows as a Bootcamp partition on a Mac, so I’m considering simply wiping the whole thing and building up up from scratch, but I’d happily consider anything that would spare me days of program re-installation and re-authorization.

For example, is all that is necessary simply disabling “Never10” or any other 10 blocker, and then running the latest Group A update prior to making the big jump?

Mac Mini v. 6.2 (2012) with Win10 Pro 64 bit v. 1809
MacBook Pro v. 3.1 (2007) with Win7 32 bit - Group B Updater

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fl wrote:

An AKB2xxxxxxxx article detailing the list of hazardous updates to avoid and general methodology would be most welcome.

There are no patches to choose or not choose in Win10. The same rule goes: Install the Patch Tuesday Security CUs using DEFCON to determine when they are safe, DO NOT install the Preview patches that are issued between Patch Tuesdays.
There is no Security-only Group B, there is no real avoiding the telemetry (although some would have you believe that there is).
If you move to Win10, you definitely should consider the Pro Edition. The problem with Win10 is controlling WHEN you get the updates, and that is easier in Pro.

I am a Mac user. All my Windows installations (XP, 7, 8.1, 1803, 1809, 1903, Insider Preview Fast Ring 20h1) are in Parallels VMs on my Macs. You might consider moving your Win7 (upgradeded to Win10 if you choose) to a VM instead of using bootcamp. Parallels works great.

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Thanks PKC.

I have a Win10 Pro license all ready and waiting to go, but I’ve been hesitating because, well, you know… The big question for me is whether to wipe the partition and start from scratch, or to upgrade my existing Win7 install, which would certainly reduce some of the headaches of re-authorizing all my software, with the potential risk of losing activations here or there – but might introduce other headaches of its own.

Your tip about running Windows on a Mac via Parallels would not work for me, as my main reason for running Windows  is to use Digital Audio programs which process sound files in real-time. In my experience, an emulator just adds too much load to insure glitch-free performance. But thanks for the thought…

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anonymous wrote:

Digital Audio programs which process sound files in real-time.

If Digital Audio programs are you concern then MacOS has better audio applications than Windows.

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If Digital Audio programs are you concern then MacOS has better audio applications than Windows.

This is simply false. All major DAWs are cross platform, with the only real exception being Logic Pro. The same is largely true for interfaces released within the last 5 years.

I would add my voice to the clamour for paid extended support. The 7 install on my main DAW machine is solid, silent, and transparent. I barely even know it’s there, and that’s how I feel it should be.

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anonymous wrote:

This is simply false. All major DAWs are cross platform,

There are several applications that are specific to a certain operating system. Especially license versions… may have to buy again to switch operating systems, which could get expensive.

It’s pretty clear that some operating systems are better than others for realtime signal processing but if you really go all-in for hard-realtime, instead of either Windows or Mac you’ll probably end up on VxWorks or QNX or some such … I don’t think many of the generalized music studio applications run on either.

Linux can be customized to do a fair realtime setup, if your choice of applications runs on it.

Pseudo-realtime work on Windows is a question of getting the drivers and such just right and then making them stay that way. Really wouldn’t expect the Windows 10 update cycle to help with that. I’ve been hearing funny things about Mac updates recently as well, but nothing specifically dealing with audio or scheduler.

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Ascaris

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couple notes / Questions

1. Will these windows 7 patches be at the same level as the current ones? ( as in buggy)
2. Will your computer get a turn off switch if you say after 3 years, you do not go to 10 within say 30 days?
3. Going along with #2 , as M$ wants every on their 10 money wagon, will getting these patches require you agreeing to go to BETA 10 after 3 years?

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We can’t know what MS will do with W7 upgrades and guessing isn’t much value here – though it can be fun.

cheers, Paul

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Can anyone suggest good options for purchasing a valid/real Win 8.1 (Pro) license? I have experimented with Win10 a few times over recent years and don’t like (or trust) it, but am also nervous about sticking with Win7 past EOL. I have a Win8.1 trial installed on an old laptop and with a few tweaks it seems pretty similar to Win7 to me, so I would like to follow that path for the next few years but am having trouble finding reputable ways to get a license.

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Your best bet is to buy a refurbished machine with Win8.1 on it from a reputable source (Dell, HP, New Egg, etc). You can get them for a reasonably low price. Licenses themselves tend to be risky.

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jburk07

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I’d definitely pay for Win 7 Pro updates for one computer I have for as long as I can get them…if the price isn’t exorbitant. $50 is fine, I’d go a bit more beyond that. I’m not at all inclined to go with Win 10 anytime soon though.

Windows 11 Pro
Version 10.0.22621, Build 22621
Dell XPS 8950, 12th Gen Intel i7

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An interesting development that may actually work.  See

https://hardenwindows7forsecurity.com/Harden%20Windows%207%20Home%20Premium%2064bit%20-%20Standalone.html

Rmeijer

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LHiggins, AJNorth

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Except for one detail

Secunia offers a free program called PSI (http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal/ ) that detects which of your installed programs are missing security patches. This is a lifesaver . After installing, it will scan your pc on a schedule. It will tell you about insecure programs, and link you to patch downloads. If a patch for a security hole does not yet exist, it will tell you, so that at least you can stop using that program for a while. This is a very important part of maintaining security of your machine.

But PSI is no longer supported

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/03/11/secunia-retires-personal-software-inspector-psi/

and Secunia has been bought so this ” very important part” is no longer possible

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LHiggins

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True, the article linked above is a bit long in the tooth.

As for as a reasonable replacement for the Secunia PSI, Patch My PC is well worth investigating (being a portable app is an added plus, IMHO):

https://www.lifewire.com/patch-my-pc-review-2625194

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/patch_my_pc.html

https://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Signatures-Updates/Patch-My-PC.shtml

 
As for the Microsoft EMET, the Malwarebytes Anti-Exploit (mentioned in the article) is a near full substitution; indeed, as it is still in active development, it actually provides greater overall protection (even though it is technically designated as a “beta”) — and is considerably easier to use, with substantially fewer issues:

https://www.howtogeek.com/223228/use-an-anti-exploit-program-to-help-protect-your-pc-from-zero-day-attacks/

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/malwarebytes_anti_exploit_(formerly_exploitshield).html

https://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Security-Related/ExploitShield-Browser-Edition.shtml

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LHiggins

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Thanks for all of the links and thoughts on ways to go forward with Win 7. It seems from reading through this that there are several parts to a good plan.

First though, I did want to clarify MS extended support.

anonymous wrote:

seems strange Microsoft is offering to support Windows 7 past January 2020 for sole proprietors (home users) after spending so much time and money working to move us onto WinX…

As I understand it – while sole proprietors may be eligible to pay for extended support, “home users” who do not run Win 7 Pro or Enterprise won’t be:

PKCano wrote:

Here’s what qualifies for Extended Support OS wise.

PKCano wrote:

Pro and Enterprise are business. Home and Ultimate are Consumer, ie, not business.

OK – so now to what may help those of us who have Home and not one of the “business” versions?

1. Patch My PC will show software that needs updating to avoid possible infections or other issues.
2. Malware Anti-Exploit is protection from web-based attacks.
3. 0Patch is an alternative patching option. According to their website:

Worried about security patches for your Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 computers after their end-of-support in January 2020? Don’t be. 0patch will provide security micropatches for high-risk vulnerabilities in these popular and ubiquitous Windows platforms, all included in the price of a PRO license…

When I checked with them, 0Patch said that their Pro license can be used with any version of Win 7 – not just “business” versions.

So – what combination of these – or something else – might be a good way for those with Win 7 Home to secure our machines going forward?

Thanks for the help!

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Greetings,

The short answer is all of the above (1, 2 & 3); they are not mutually exclusive.  Indeed, my guess is that a sizable fraction of those who continue to use Win 7 after EOL will not be using 0Patch (most will probably not even know about it); in fact, quite a few people are in what is referred to here as “Group W” — they haven’t installed Microsoft patches for some time.

After all, at the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of computer infections are the result of its operator’s use (such as visiting an infected site — especially with a poorly-protected browser, downloading and opening a booby-trapped attachment or executable, and so on).

Being careful (thoughtful and purposeful) in operating one’s computer is THE first line of defense; that coupled with using an up-to-date browser with effective security enhancements (such as uBlock Origin and NoScript — and even running the browser in a sandbox, such as the now-free Sandboxie), as well as having layers of capable antimalware (including using a quality router with a firewall) and keeping installed applications up-to-date should keep virtually every Windows 7 user safe for some time to come.

Patch My PC works on all versions of Windows from Vista through 10; MWB Anti-Exploit works from XP onwards.  (By the way, EMET reached its EOL in July 2018 — another reason to use MWB A-E instead.)

Cheers,

AJN

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Steve, Cybertooth, LHiggins

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[LHiggins]

Thanks for the information! Much appreciated!

AJNorth wrote:

Indeed, my guess is that a sizable fraction of those who continue to use Win 7 after EOL will not be using 0Patch (most will probably not even know about it); in fact, quite a few people are in what is referred to here as “Group W” — they haven’t installed Microsoft patches for some time.

So – maybe 0Patch isn’t as important as following good computing practices and being sure software is up to date. Still wish I knew a bit more about how it works though.

I am not planning to use Win 7 as my main OS – right now I run Linux Mint from a USB SSD on my Win 7 laptop. But I do have a few things that won’t run on Mint and I do want to be able to use Win 7 occasionally – so I definitely will look into Patch My PC as one of the ways to protect my computer after Jan 2020.

Thanks again! Sorry for the late reply!

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by LHiggins.

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AJNorth

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AJNorth wrote:

…another reason to use MWB A-E instead…

Does anyone know if Malware Bites Anti-Exploit can be run alongside Norton Internet Security, which I currently have on my Win 7 laptop? I wanted to give MWB A-E a try, but didn’t want to create any conflicts with Norton.

Thanks!

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Greetings,

Though I do not have direct knowledge of running MWB A-E with Norton, it should be compatible (none of the Win 7 or 8.1 machines that I’ve installed it on have had any issues running it with other anti-malware solutions); see https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/malwarebytes_anti_exploit_(formerly_exploitshield).html and,

https://malwarebytes-anti-exploit.en.lo4d.com/windows

It might also be useful to set a Restore Point before installing it (in the off-chance that you encounter an issue).

Cheers,

AJN

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LHiggins

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Thanks so much! I’ll check out the links and give it a try. I do set restore points every day that I use Windows, and do full backups regularly too!

I want to make my Win 7 laptop as secure as possible to hopefully keep using it after January. I did download Patch My PC and it seems to work great – thanks for that tip!

But truth be told – Linux Mint is so much faster and smoother, if I can master it, I think I’ll want to keep using it and keep Windows as an alternative for things that don’t run on Mint. Right now I am looking into possibly having a separate, dedicated Mint laptop along with this Win 7 one.

Thanks for the help – much appreciated!

LH

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AJNorth

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Dude, just drop Norton and go with MalwareBytes.  Their zero day approach or whatever they are using is awesome.  I tried a few other paid for and have found MalwareBytes to be the most pliable and easy to use.  Lots of simple to understand options, a relatively low usage load which should not slow you down on a decent PC, and you get nifty alert pop ups and logging with additional user settings.  Unlike Norton you don’t load up with dummy entries and then hope you’re being protected if a match is registered.  I’m on the haveibeenpawned lists or whatever that is, probably I should change my email right about now.  But MB actually has stopped all these exploits and trojans, it’s remarkable.  And unlike some other security items which tell you to uninstall everything else or have unanswerable install conflict, MB install is less conflict and you can still use S&D, various freeware antivirus and firewalls alongside it.  I actually keep MS standard antivirus running alongside MB, w/ S&D on the side for track cleaning and such, w/ redundant freeware virus for that over the top unnecessary track cleaning, and zone alarm every slider set to high on full manual of course.  Back in the day they offered 3 for 1 but now it’s more expensive.  MB is so great, you hardly need anything else for regular PC usage, so long as you’re using a good router and various other freewares, don’t click phishing links, don’t fall for extortion scams, don’t integrate with mobile devices, etc, use AdBlock+ and UblockOrigin, you’ll be fine.  Computers are no fun anymore.  MB keeps users up to date with a monthly newsletter that for pro’s is a good refresher and for newbs, is a lot of very good standard information on important issues everyday regular users face online.   Come to think of it, computer management in 2019 is a massive waste of my time.  MB’s most notable contribution to me personally is the automation which saves a lot of research time, finally something I can trust because apparently it’s actually working as advertised.  It stops everything from trojans to malicious websites and exploit kits, at least it’s done that for me.  I know because the pop up alert box told me, otherwise I’d probably have been sacked on forced to be on 10 by now.  I’m not afraid, I click those links anyways and just see what happens!  Cheers.

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LHiggins

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Yes, the full version of MWB A-E is a component of Malwarebytes Premium (to which I have six lifetime licenses); I use it in conjunction with MSE in Windows 7 and Windows Defender in 8.1 (which are primary).

However, I continue to run version 3.8.3.2965, as v. 4.0 is still quite new, having only recently come out of beta, and there have been very few formal tests; the ones that I have seen so far are those by Neil Rubenking in PC Magazine: https://www.pcmag.com/review/322060/malwarebytes-premium and by Mike Williams at TechRadar: https://www.techradar.com/reviews/malwarebytes.

(As a personal note, I am also underwhelmed by the new GUI in v. 4.0).

Those who wish to purchase a Premium license should be able to find some attractive discounts online (here is one for 70% off a two-year license: https://www.couponcodes.store/store/malwarebytes/).

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LHiggins

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Hello.  Yes, how do I simply buy into this additional cost extortion program to extend my win 7 pro machine another hopefully 3 years?  I used the find a provider tool from the stated link in the windows 7 ESU faq’s page.  It was difficult to get it to return a result which I read other posters complain about in various blog boards, but auto population of the last field allowed population, just entered windows 7 and nothing else.   Of course I had to turn on the dreaded IE and it would not work with firefox and all the blockers, but I did finally get that to populate.  https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4527878/faq-about-extended-security-updates-for-windows-7

There were a few companies suggested but they’re pro service solutions providers.  As an independent 1099 small business person I have never had a need to work with a company like that and am reluctant to give them any information.  Where can I simply go online, pop in a credit card number, and participate in this ESU program so I can simply run my trustworthy super awesome highly customized Windows 7 Pro installation for another 3 years?  I want to pay and now the question is how do I pay and to whom?

Of course the shillery is high on this issue, lots of fanboys and most likely MS corporatists trying to encourage people to go with 10.  I set up a 10 for my wife, having no other choice when she needed a new computer and I could no longer acquire a 7 pro preloaded sometime last year.  I’ve got about 4 long pages of individual actions I took after reading hundreds of help sites on how to stop telemetry keylogging and whatever else privacy invasion was happening with 10.  I don’t feel like spending another 2-4 weeks tediously dismantling all the process and correlation activity I find objectionable on another 10 install on my more beefy PC, then re installing all my software which I’ll have to pay for updated items again as well.  I’m not even sure 10 is going to work for me without substantial software and product changes, I still enjoy a lot of legacy software and old hardware items.

Hamburger menus and tiles are for the birds and illiterate users of the world who like to pretend they’re competent enough to navigate it all on mobile devices.  Not only did they crush awesome forum sites in favor of blogrolls, and a great many web pages in general, imposing global censorship, now they’re trying to ruin my personal computer as well.  If 10 offered an option to appear and function exactly like windows 7, that would be more palatable then I get get back to familiar actions like stripping away and denying non essential processes I don’t want or need.  I don’t like upgrading, it’s not cool, it’s not trendy, it’s unnecessary if not for planned obsolescence and a monopolized product structure.  It is not my responsibility as a computer user to keep every tech person in the world employed.  I’ve bookmarked this page and hopefully someone can like, post a link or something.

Thank you.  JW from Colorado.

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Are you asking how to continue running your W7 machine?
if so, I would do 2 things.
1. Make an image backup and create a recovery USB using a (free) 3rd party backup app.
2. Install (if not already done) a 3rd party anti virus that supports W7.

And keep an eye on this site for important news.

cheers, Paul

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Interesting article update from an individual user whom has tried to engage cloud solution providers.  Not looking good for solo users right now.

Does anyone here know of one whom will help individual users extend the life of the 7 system?

https://www.zdnet.com/article/so-you-want-to-keep-running-windows-7-good-luck-with-that-small-businesses/

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