Replacing iDrive Backup

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Hi Loungers,

You’d think, after all these years, I’d feel confident about backing up data…but I still don’t!

We signed up for iDrive a few years ago thanks to a promotion they were running. The price has gone up again this year and I now would like to find a replacement, hopefully a less expensive one.

I know an external hard drive is one option, but initially that means an additional outlay of funds. Furthermore, I always find it challenging to know just what to save to the hard drive…the entire C drive? just the key docs I’m working on? new versions of items? There is definitely a lot of information on my C drive that does not need to be backed up (although trying to determine what to back up and what not to would be a time consuming task!). Heck, it was difficult for me to select files and folders to save to iDrive!

I’m looking for any suggestions. Our old, no-longer-functioning laptop has an SSD (installed 2018). I recall a Lounger talking about a way to create an external disk drive out of an internal disk several years ago. Does that make sense?

Any suggestions you could offer would be appreciated. Our iDrive subscription renewal date is March 26 so we have some time.

Thanks very much,

Linda

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IreneLinda wrote:

I know an external hard drive is one option, but initially that means an additional outlay of funds. Furthermore, I always find it challenging to know just what to save to the hard drive…the entire C drive? just the key docs I’m working on? new versions of items?

An external HDD will be much cheaper than a backup service.

You create a FULL image copy of your PC and can restore in need all or any single folder, file…

On one external HDD you can create 10s of image backups.

You can replace/upgrade your internal SSD and restore the image created to new SSD.

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IreneLinda

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If the SSD in your old laptop is as large as the used space on your current computer, that could be a good method.  There are a few kinds of SSDs, once you take the drive out you can figure out what kind of enclosure it needs, and once it is made into an external drive make sure you don’t need any data from it.

Then, the easiest thing is to make an image of your whole computer to the external drive.  This allows recovery from the most kinds of problems ranging from accidental file deletion all the way to bad updates or ransomware.   Macrium Reflect Free is what I use.  Depending on how often you make data files may affect how often you need to backup.  In addition to this, since you were willing to trust a cloud service before, a free or low cost cloud for only a small set of data files constantly synced, like your my documents, can be very convenient- onedrive, dropbox or google drive.

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IreneLinda

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Unless it’s actually soldiered to the motherboard (I’m looking at you Apple) the internal drive should be removable for use in an external enclosure.

Of course, depending on the manufacturer, getting it out could be very easy (i.e. a small door you remove to access/remove the drive) or difficult (the laptop has to be disassembled to get to the drive.)

As pointed out above, once it’s out and you know what type of drive it is, you’ll need to find an appropriate external enclosure.

I’ve used a lot of different external enclosures over the past 2 decades and my absolute favorites are those sold by StarTech.

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/enclosures

They pretty much cover all possible drive sizes from mSATA up to 5.25″ with USB, eSATA, SATA or Thunderbolt style interfaces and they’re all either “toolless” (i.e no screws) or include the required screws & screwdriver.

I’m currently using 3 of their toolless 2.5in USB 3.0 External SATA III SSD Hard Drive Enclosure with UASP enclosures with my old SSD drives for external file backups.

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IreneLinda

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Tom’s Guide reviews of cloud backup services…

https://www.tomsguide.com/best-picks/best-cloud-backup

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IreneLinda

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IreneLinda wrote:

hopefully a less expensive one

These cables are about the cheapest way to connect an external disk – I use one all the time with a rubber band around it to keep the connector in place.

 

IreneLinda wrote:

challenging to know just what to save to the hard drive

I always start with an image backup so I can recover in case of disk /machine failure.
Then I do more regular document backups because my data is the most important stuff.

Depending on how much data you have you could do the image backups to the SSD and data to the cloud – low storage volume is usually free. Then you can have an automatic daily data backup – for the important stuff.

cheers, Paul

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IreneLinda

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What size is the old laptop disk?
How much space is used on your current machine?

(Maybe Kathy can donate one of her multitude of 2TB SSDs?)  🙂

cheers, Paul

p.s. SSDs like to have the power turned on every now and then to help retain data. A couple of times a month is more than enough, and you can do a test read to make extra sure.

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IreneLinda

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Paul T wrote:

SSDs like to have the power turned on every now and then to help retain data. A couple of times a month is more than enough, and you can do a test read to make extra sure.

While it’s true that NAND flash doesn’t last forever, data retention depends on more that just having power…the age of the drive, type of NAND flash memory, temperature in the environment it’s stored in, are also factors.

I would hope that an SSD used for backup would be lit up more than twice a month.

A clone that has been sitting on a shelf for a while might be a concern.

How would that “test read” work on an SSD with proprietery image files that are compressed?

I don’t know what you were using to get hashes on large files, but I just ran an MD5 on a 60 gig image file (Terabyte Unlimited Image for Windows) using ExactFile…that took 13 minutes.

 

 

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IreneLinda

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I don’t read hashes, it’s too slow – the files have to be read and then the hash calculated, when all we want to do is read the files. Thus the Powershell script to do the work.

cheers, Paul

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Have you considered cloning? I clone my drives so that if something happens, I can just swap out the drives. I use a paid cloning software but there are free ones such as Macrium.

There is a lag time between cloning so I just keep important file changes on more than 1 computer. The adaptor I use is this one, https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Adapter-Converter-Drives-Laptop/dp/B01AW40QZW .

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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IreneLinda

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Bunch of good advice above. Local backups? What if the house catches fire or floods? Store a copy in bank deposit box or friend’s house? What if a natural disaster hits the area and takes out the bank or friend’s house too?

I make use of both of the above plus I have online backups so there’s a copy in a different geographical location. I could set up in a hotel with a laptop if evacuated and have access to my critical data.

I use Backblaze (unlimited storage) and my own server for online backups. If your data needs are smaller, iDrive gives 5GB free and I have a few clients making use of it as it fits their needs.

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IreneLinda

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cyberSAR wrote:

What if the house catches fire or floods? Store a copy in bank deposit box or friend’s house? What if a natural disaster hits the area and takes out the bank or friend’s house too?

What if a huge electronic pulse wipes out electricity and all digital data ?

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That’s what optical disc backups are for. A few burned Blu-rays or better yet, M-Discs in slimline cases stuck in a safe or bank safe deposit box, and your most precious data – Family multimedia/photos, business records, genealogy records, whatever floats your boat – will be there for you after the cataclysm should you survive it. 😏

Offsite backups are a good thing. I’m soon to implement a second layer backup system where I copy my main system’s Macrium Reflect most recent backup files from last full backup + incrementals onto little 2-5Tb bus powered portable hard drives, then take that drive and stick in in the safe in my shop in town. Rinse & repeat each week after the backup completes, and even if lightning hit my house, fried all the electronics and caused it to burn to the ground, I’d never lose more than a week’s worth of data.

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IreneLinda

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Alex5723 wrote:

cyberSAR wrote:

What if the house catches fire or floods? Store a copy in bank deposit box or friend’s house? What if a natural disaster hits the area and takes out the bank or friend’s house too?

What if a huge electronic pulse wipes out electricity and all digital data ?

Laugh, but a major hurricane caused just the scenario I pointed out for me years ago, which is why I started with online backups. Couldn’t access my bank deposit box for over a month.

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Wow! I sure understand why you went to cloud storage!

Linda

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Wow, and thank ALL of you for ALL this information.

After reading all your posts, I thought I’d share some additional information/
questions:

• I currently use Macrium Reflect free to do regular image backups of the PC. I thought that saved only files necessary to re-install Windows should the HDD fail. If it can save all my documents via a clone, is that all I need? (I did mention I was a tad clueless on this whole subject!)
• the iDrive plan promo offered 5 TB of storage for just over $3/year. My current plan is for 2 TB. The C drive on this PC, on which all my data and documents are stored, shows “105 GB free of 279 GB”. So, really, I don’t need all that storage capacity, is that right?
• just noticed iDrive has a current sale: 1TB for $15/first year. Maybe my simplest solution to get this on track before the March 26 deadline, is to go to them and request being downgraded to this plan. I can then spend more time researching other solutions without the deadline pressure. Thoughts?
• SSD is by Crucial, which I installed myself so it’s easy in and out. It has, however, been sitting idle in the “broken” laptop for almost 2 years. Could this cause issues if it’s used as an external drive? Is that right? I don’t know its capacity, however.

Thanks again for all the information and help you’ve offered. I have checked most links (thanks!) and will go through the remaining ones soon.

Linda

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IreneLinda wrote:

Wow, and thank ALL of you for ALL this information.

It’s a lot to take in…thanks for hanging in there.

To address your new questions (and maybe some old ones)…

 

Some folks often use the word “clone” for “image”, which can lead to confusion.

A drive “image” is an exact copy of your hard drive, but is not bootable. Multiple disk images can be stored on a single drive.

A drive “clone” is an exact copy of your hard drive, and is bootable. Only one clone can exist on a single drive.

A “data backup” is selective…meaning you pick which files and folders you want to backup.

This is how we personally use each…

Image –

We do a drive image once a week, and keep a maximum 12 weeks worth, for each user.

Images are like big zip files. So to keep x amount of images, you need storage available for x amount of images, whether your using an external USB drive, or a cloud service.

Our choice is a 2 TB external USB drive, that is kept offline when it’s not put to work. This is protection from any bad stuff, like ransomware, that will encrypt every drive it finds.

Clone –

We use this when buying a new drive.

As mentioned above, it also makes an exact copy of the “old” drive, and all we have to do is remove the old drive, install the new drive, boot, and we’re back in business.

Some folks use this as a backup strategy, which is fine.

However, for every clone, you need a new drive.

Having multiple clones would become expensive rather quickly.

Note: You can also restore a drive image to a new drive, which would be useful if the old drive was failing, or you couldn’t boot.

Data backup –

We do these daily (some folks do it hourly), since data changes frequently.

If you got in trouble and needed to restore your system to a known-good state, and you only had a weekly drive image, you would lose a weeks worth of data.

So at most, we might lose a day’s worth of work versus a week (or more, if we didn’t stick to the weekly image plan).

A restore for us is image first, then data.

Your 2 year-old SSD –

Is probably fine…it would depend on the parameters mentioned above (how much use has it had, etc.)

I would use a tool like Clear Disk Info to look at the S.M.A.R.T. indicators for the drive.

https://www.carifred.com/cleardiskinfo/

Its color coded results make it pretty straightforward.

I wouldn’t use the drive if anything shows other that OK…or Warning (and that can depend on where the Warning is).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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IreneLinda wrote:

I currently use Macrium Reflect free to do regular image backups of the PC. I thought that saved only files necessary to re-install Windows should the HDD fail. If it can save all my documents via a clone, is that all I need? (I did mention I was a tad clueless on this whole subject!)

That would suggest that you are “Cloning” your drive to another drive. If that’s the case, it makes a duplicate copy of everything on your drive for a drive swap.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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IreneLinda wrote:

shows “105 GB free of 279 GB”. So, really, I don’t need all that storage capacity

You definitely do not need a 5GB storage plan.

2 images and multiple data backups will consume less than 1TB. You probably have 1TB free with an online provider.

cheers, Paul

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IreneLinda

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Paul T wrote:

You definitely do not need a 5GB storage plan.

Did you mean 5 TB?

5 GB ain’t a lot of data…

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Every time I think this Lounge can’t offer more, it does! Thanks especially to Old Navy Guy for excellent explanations in language I could easily understand. I’ll print that out and keep in my hard copy backup file for ongoing reference. 🙂

CADesertRat: Do you mean I can clone (exact copy of everything on C drive) and save the clone in Macrium in case of drive failure? Or is cloning just for copying directly onto a new hard drive right away?

UPDATE: the iDrive sale I referenced as a solution in #2651325 turns out to be for iDrive e2. After research (eg.https://www.cloudwards.net/idrive-e2/), I think it is not what we need. So my plan is to check out other free/low cost cloud storage options as the quick solution; then, work on a more permanent solution over the next period of time (i.e., after getting taxes done!).

Massive thanks for all your terrific suggestions/replies,

Linda

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Depending on your needs you might consider local and offsite backups and idrive free for critical files if they are under 10GB in size. https://www.idrive.com/idrive/signupFree

I pay $99.00/yr for backblaze. It’s not perfect but satisfies my needs and unlimited storage.

I have successfully restored client data from both idrive and backblaze in the past.

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IreneLinda

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Okay. Thanks to all your input, here’s my plan:

1. Use the current image backup external drive as a place to clone the C drive. I checked its health, using the link from Old Navy Guy, and it’s good. It currently has 645 GB free of 1.36 TB, which gives me enough space to copy/clone my C drive which uses about 170 GB. Have I got this correct?
2. Use iDrive free or daily manual transfers to backup daily documents/files, as needed.
3. Check health of laptop SSD down the road and use it as an extra external drive for future images or data backups.

Does this make sense?

I just checked Macrium and I see the “clone” option. Haven’t used it before, but it looks fairly straightforward.

If this plan makes sense, I’ll implement it over the next few days and report back.

Again, thank you all so much!

Linda

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You are really close, but do not do clone.  Clones cannot be stored with other data on a drive.  You want to make a new image of the C drive, that will be a complete backup.

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1. Yep!
2. Great!
3. Nice for a spare / off-site.

A ES said, clone is only for drive replacement, but image is always a better method IMO – you get a backup and replacement drive at the cost of half an hour.

cheers, Paul

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The problem here is the OP’s lack of understanding of the difference between clone and image.

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CADesertRat

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PKCano: How right you are! I believe now “image” is the data needed to restore Windows in case of drive failure and “clone”, exact copy of everything on the disk, Windows stuff and documents/filesm but not what I’m trying to do now.

After Paul’s post, I thought I was there, but ES said:

You want to make a new image of the C drive, that will be a complete backup.

Just checked Macrium options again. After re-reading Paul and ES, I think I should select “Image selected disks on this computer” in order to have C drive copies safely to the external drive.

Have I finally got this straight? I really appreciate your patience throughout!!

Thanks again and fingers crossed,

Linda

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Energy saver wrote:

You want to make a new image of the C drive, that will be a complete backup.

A complete backup – but only of your C: drive. That will not make an image of the entire HDD and will not be bootable. To make a complete backup of the whole drive for recovery, you have to make an image of the whole drive = all partitions.

What an image does, is basically wrap the drive up in one file (everything in the same bag, so to speak) and put the “bag” on your external backup drive as a file (one piece). It is stored there as any other file. But the image itself is not bootable.
When you restore the image, the backup software “unbags” the parts and lays them out in the same order they were originally on whatever drive you choose. But, if you need some of the contents of the “bag” (some files or folders, not the whole thing), you can mount the image and copy out whatever data you want.

A clone, on the other hand, makes the target drive exactly the same as the source drive. So if your external drive has something on it, it will be gone, because in the end, the only thing on the target is the same thing that was on the source. Clone means both drives are the same as the one you are backing up. Nothing else will be left on the target but what was on the source.

At any rate, the C: drive that contains Windows is only one of the partitions on you HDD. If all you want is the OS, then backup only the C: drive. But if you want a functional backup, you need to make it of the WHOLE disk (all the partitions), whether you are cloning or imaging.

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IreneLinda wrote:

CADesertRat: Do you mean I can clone (exact copy of everything on C drive) and save the clone in Macrium in case of drive failure? Or is cloning just for copying directly onto a new hard drive right away?

A clone is an exact copy of your current drive to another drive. If your current drive has problems you just replace it with the drive you cloned.

When you clone, it’s an exact copy at a point in time so if you use the clone it will take you back to that point in time hence the reasoning for saving changes to files etc. in between to another device. Hope this helps.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Yes, Desert Rat, it really does help. Thanks to you, Old Navy Guy and PKCano, I now understand these terms and the different things each does.

I am especially glad to know that a clone will need a whole drive and will delete any information already on a used disk. So glad I didn’t clone my hard drive onto my external drive with all the Macrium images on it!!

I learn SO much in this Lounge, thanks to all of you so willingly (and patiently!) sharing your extensive knowledge.

Linda

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Please see reply to PK above for my final (hopefully!) confirmation!

Linda

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PKCano, fabulous! Thank you. I think I’ve finally understood it all!

Question: I’ve attached a screenshot of my Macrium screen. Because I want a copy of everything I need in case my computer dies, I should select “Image this disk”. Have I got it right?

I will hold off on doing anything until I hear back…when you have some time. I realize you (and all Loungers) are helping out of the goodness of your heart and that you have a non-AskWoody life that is more important!

Linda

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Information:

Create Backup tab. Top disk (Disk 1) is your internal HDD. Check the drive – be sure all the partitions are also checked. Click “Image this disk.”
Disk 2 is the external backup drive (plugged in USB). Yours will probably show one partition instead of two.

You should create a folder on your Destination backup drive to contain the image. I have used the pc name, the version, and the image date as the name. Point to the destination.
Give the backup image a name. Again, I like something that leaves no doubt what’s in it, like pc name, the version, and the image date.

Advanced Options at the bottom: These are the settings I use.
Compression – Medium -Intelligent sector copy
File size – automatic
Password – I don’t use. You may want.
Auto verify image – verify
Verify file system – check the box
Backup set name – I use the default which will be what you named it plus an extension.
Comments – whatever
You can also set it up to email you when done if it’s scheduled.
Next

You can create a template of the settings and save it to run multiple backups the same.
You can create a schedule to run automatically.
You can designate Full or differential and the number of each to keep. (Macrium Free does not do Incremental) Be sure to uncheck the type you don’t use.
Next.

Finish asks you “Run now?” and runs it.
If you create a template, you can run one, and if it isn’t what you want, delete the image, alter the template, and try again.
Be sure you create a Rescue bootable thumb drive so you can do restores. You have to boot from it to restore.

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CR2, Deo, satrow, Paul T

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Quick query on incredible instructions here: I did Not select a ‘folder’, I chose the entire drive, ie E:/. Any harm? Tia

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Deo wrote:

I did Not select a ‘folder’, I chose the entire drive, ie E:/

It will just put the backup image in the root of the E: drive, instead of something like E:\My Backups.

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Entire drive for which part? If it is for the backup destination then the image file will be saved on the root of E:.
I always want the image file in a folder so I can name it to match the machine I was backing up.

cheers, Paul

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satrow

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Paul, just to clarify following the Tia question and replies: is what I did a correct method , i.e., new folder called “Images”; path “E:\Images\PC\03252024”?

Thanks!

Linda

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Can this be changed after the fact ie now at root? Or how to wipe WD HDD drive and start again?

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Backup files can be moved like any other file. Make a new folder and then drag n drop the backup file into it.

cheers, Paul

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PKCano, this is fantastic! Thank you SO much for your meticulous reply, complete with personalized arrows to make it super easy for me to follow. You have made something I was very nervous about totally easy to do and feel comfortable about doing. 🙂

I’m going to work on this over the weekend, going very slowly, and post back results once I have finished the backup.

Comment and Questions:

Yes, thank you, I do realize my version of Macrium does not do incremental. I don’t plan to do differential either. Is that correct?

Be sure you create a Rescue bootable thumb drive so you can do restores. You have to boot from it to restore.

I created one of these way back when I first used this PC. Do I need to do another one? I’m thinking, yes, because the new one would allow me to recover all the current stuff on the C drive, should it fail. Am I correct?

Many, many thanks for the time you devoted to this wonderful reply, PK. Can’t wait to get at it and start the process!!

Appreciatively,

Linda

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IreneLinda wrote:

Yes, thank you, I do realize my version of Macrium does not do incremental. I don’t plan to do differential either. Is that correct?

You probably won’t do differentials. That would be if you were trying to backup changes between full disk images.

IreneLinda wrote:

I created one of these way back when I first used this PC. Do I need to do another one? I’m thinking, yes, because the new one would allow me to recover all the current stuff on the C drive, should it fail. Am I correct?

When you boot off the USB Rescue drive, it runs a copy of Macrium that is on the USB Rescue drive, not on the system you are trying to restore.
You cannot restore a running system from the running system (You can’t overwrite an open file/folder/system). So you have to boot from “not the system” and run the backup software also from “not the system.” “Not the system” = the USB drive.

From the Rescue drive, you can restore a single partition, more that one partition, or the whole drive. Stop referring to the whole drive as your C: drive –  that is only one of the partitions on the HDD. You need to restore only the C: drive (OS partition) if only the OS is messed up. You need to restore all the partitions to restore a bootable HDD if the original drive goes belly up/crashes/dies.

And, yes, if it’s been a long time, since you made the Rescue drive, I would recreate it using the Macrium software (I think under “Other tasks”). Then be sure you can boot from it and Macrium can see your backup drive where your images are stored.

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Excellent, PKCano. I understand and will create a new USB rescue drive.

I appreciate the correction about my references to “C drive”. I truly did not realize that C drive was only one partition. Sheesh. I’m always amazed (and embarrassed) to discover how little I really know about all the “behind the scenes” things that go on to make my user experience work.

Today is “back up my HDD” day so I will be backt to you soon with results.

Wish me luck!

Linda

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Update: Hurray! HDD Image backup and verify completed successfully and saved in its new folder on my external drive. (see attached jpg)

I will purchase a new USB drive since the ones I currently have are not large enough to hold all the data. I have seen where to do this in Other Tasks on Macrium. Thank you, PKCano.

So now I have a complete image of everything that is on my internal HDD as of this afternoon. Any new documents/data I create and wish to save will be saved as they are created going forward.

I’ll leave this thread open until I have created the USB boot drive so I can report on that later this week.

Again, huge thanks and appreciation for everyone’s help in guiding me through this process…and teaching me a lot about images and backups and C drives along the way!

Back to you soon,

Linda

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PKCano

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IreneLinda wrote:

is what I did a correct method , i.e., new folder called “Images”; path “E:\Images\PC\03252024”?

That’s fine.

If you are doing images for more than one user, you can extend that to include the user name…

E:\Images\PC\IreneLinda

E:\Images\PC\OldNavyGuy

 

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Great! I understand, too, about adding a second user folder if needed.

Thanks for sticking with this and for your help along the way…much appreciated.

Linda

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Hi Lougers,

A final update and we can call this topic “resolved”…I finally tested the USB Macrium thumb drive to ensure I could boot from it; then, I ensured it could locate the new image on my external drive; finally, I created a second image just now, just in case.

So I think I’m all set (at least for now!). Many thanks once more for ALL the help and advice and suggestions and links you provided as I worked my way through this. I feel much more comfortable re. backups and I know I’ve learned a lot.

With appreciation,

Linda

 

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Oops, hadn’t realized I had to select Resolved before I wrote my reply! So here is my Resolved message! 🙂

Linda

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