Reminder: What’s next for Windows?

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Microsoft’s live event entitled “What’s next for Windows” is set for Thursday, June 24 at 11:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Watch here. You can also visit that
[See the full post at: Reminder: What’s next for Windows?]

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Cybertooth, OscarCP, Susan Bradley

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So far, (11:10 Eastern) the stream is being overwhelmed.  Apparently lots of folks are curious.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Well, the Windows 11 Event has bombed (not streaming) on my fastest-most-memory-latest-CPG-SSD computer. Anyone else getting the “poop” on the new version (at 11:15 EDT)?

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PKCano wrote:

Well, the Windows 11 Event has bombed (not streaming) on my fastest-most-memory-latest-CPG-SSD computer.

It’s not you, it’s the streaming service.

bbearren wrote:

So far, (11:10 Eastern) the stream is being overwhelmed. Apparently lots of folks are curious.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I knew that.
Irony!
Seems the “best of the best” just think they are.
I watched Apple’s WWDC a couple of weeks ago. MS should watch Apple’s WWDC next year.

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PKCano wrote:

I watched Apple’s WWDC a couple of weeks ago.

Just a guess, but there are probably exponentially more folks trying to watch the “New” Windows announcement.  Apple doesn’t have over a billion installations of their computer OS.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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It’s Apple WWDC.
You forget the number of iPhones and iPads.

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PKCano wrote:

You forget the number of iPhones and iPads.

What’s the breakout of how many iPhones were connected via WiFi and how many were connected through their cellular network?

Back out the spread and it might be that there were far fewer singular direct internet connections over which the stream was playing out then compared to now.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Poor analagy.

Maybe the number watching MS’s fiasco on their (i)Phones is about the same as those watching WWDC on their (i)Phones.

Wait! No one is watching MS’s presentation on anything!

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On the positive side, there appears to be a great deal of interest in the “New” Windows.

On the negative side, the streaming service is downright lousy.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Windows 11? Everything in the cloud. No more sharp corners, everything is rounded and blended. Remembers every activity and setting. As many desktops are the user wants. At least one major problem – online streaming repeatedly stops broadcasting. Everything in the cloud may have major functionality issues. What happened to local control? What an embarrassment for Microsoft! Tron (master control program) on steroids.

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the stream via YouTube was fine..seems satya want’s to go beyond clouds…to create a Windows constellation. Welcome to Lindows

Windows 11 release info and specification requirements have been published by MSFT:
Windows 11

“A Microsoft account and internet connectivity is required for setup for Windows 11 Home” ouchh!

and looking over the required hardware specs, there is NO 32bit version.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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You can watch it here.

 

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Windows 11 upgrades :

Free only from Windows 10.

Windows 7, 8, 8.1 will have to upgrade to Windows 10 in order to upgrade to Windows 11.

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According to what I have been reading just now about the event today (that I did not watch so I might have missed something — perhaps a future but definite switch from Intel CISC to ARM RISC processors and a corresponding version of a future Windows No. 45284 x 10^25?):

The main changes to Windows I have found commented so far is in the looks of the screen (“rounded corners” whoa!, that’s sheer genius!), and in these two facts: that it is possible to run Android cell phone applications with a monitor touch-screen (that works if one disconnects the keyboard and the mouse) and that it also makes gaming better, faster, whatever. It seems maybe it will be also helpful to developers of “apps”, because they’ll be keeping all the money gained from the sales of their things through the MS Store.

So this seems to be a 99.9999% consumers/mass-market product. For doing serious computer work using a PC as a proper work-station (the way Windows used to be in what it now feels like several generations of computers  — and of people — ago), well … not so much, as far as I can see, except for making the use of “Teams” for setting up and, or attending virtual meetings easier (maybe) than otherwise.

In conclusion, for right now: there is a Mac running macOS in my present and a PC running Linux — and only Linux — in my future.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Bill C.

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OscarCP wrote:

that it is possible to run Android cell phone applications

Only those on the Amazon apps store and running using ‘Intel Bridge’ (emulation).

Wonder if I will be able to uninstall all Microsoft’s PUP applications (Team, Xbox…) Like I did in Windows 10.

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OscarCP

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TPM 2.o is now a hardware requirement for Windows 11.

 

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What is TPM 2.0???

The answer, written in an understandable, reasonably well-known and still-live language, here:

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/windows-11-wont-work-on-your-pc-without-a-tpm-how-to-check

From where I excerpt the following:

“If you’re curious, the TPM uses both software and hardware to store and protect important passwords and/or encryption keys. Plus, if a TPM chip detects something wrong in your system, it can run a quarantine mode to try and fix the problem.

It’s basically a line of defense your system has against attacks, and a important part of why Microsoft believes that Windows 11 is super-secure.”

Well, at MS they believe in many things that are not necessarily so. It’s an habit they have, at MS.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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The earliest Apple product with T2 appears to be 2018, and M-series not listed.
That fact, plus the move to ARM based M-series seems to spell doom for running Windows VMs on Macs in the future.

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This was a helpful link where I was able to find out that says that “TPM is ready to use.”

From the same site I downloaded the “Windows PC Health Check.” However when I run it here is what I get:

“Your organization manages updates on this PC”

This is now becoming a common problem when searching on the internet.   Seems like even those that have built there own PC are having the problem.  Some have speculated that it may be related to having Office 365 on your computer (I logged out and then tried it; same result).  Others have said it may be related to gpedit settings.  Checked – not an issue.

Has anyone else had this problem?  Better yet – has anyone found a solution?

Note: Windows Update page does not say anything about an organization controlling updates.

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You don’t also have “*Some settings are managed by your organization” at the top of Windows Update?

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Have not had any problem with updates and it does not say that on the Windows Update page.  Every time I search “Your organization manages updates on this PC, ” the complaints seem to be growing.

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Are you using a work or school email address at Settings, Accounts, Email & accounts?

Windows 11 Update Check says “Your organization manages updates on this PC. For info about getting Windows 11, contact your IT admin.”

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ECWS

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Thanks – that was helpful.  When I checked I saw my office email address under “Accounts used by other apps.”  Guess that is what is causing the problem.  Not sure how to bypass it.

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b

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Yep, which means a huge amount of recent and even brand new laptops and pc’s – especially those midrange / lower end recently bought i3 and i5 systems are already turned obsolete. Already many irritated people who downloaded the win 11 readiness checker, and don’t understand why their specced out less than 3 year old i7 with ssd, 16+ GB ram and 2+ GB GPU isn’t compatible. Well, because Microsoft had many years the chance to push TPM but even under Windows 10 didn’t endorse this as a strongly recommended feature. If they would have done so, TPM would have been available in every system from the last 7 years on or so. Now, Windows 11 will be a waste of perfectly capable pc’s, a huge increase of senseless scrapping and a burden for the environment.

In short, many consumers will not be able to upgrade to 11. Unless they buy yet another computer. Which they won’t, especially not if they just bought a cheap workhorse for home working. So yeah, this might be the infamous shot in the foot. Another problem is that in the small print one can read that the start menu does not offer the option to divide apps etc in folders. Golden times for Start11 (the follow up of Start 8) I guess.

Windows 11: Windows 10 plus some eye candy. Sounds vaguely familiar… Windows ME, anyone…?

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I read on one web site that

“Since July 28, 2016, Microsoft made the implementation of TPM 2.0 mandatory to certify Windows 10 computers”

Can anyone confirm this?  Are most PCs “MS Certified”?

 

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That’s indeed the case, Microsoft lists TPM as a requirement. No TPM means a no go. Unfortunately many pc’s and laptops are even nowadays sold without TPM. Many potential upgraders will not be amused. C’est la vie.

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R wrote:

Well, because Microsoft had many years the chance to push TPM but even under Windows 10 didn’t endorse this as a strongly recommended feature.

R wrote:

Microsoft lists TPM as a requirement. No TPM means a no go.

Huh?

Not endorsed as recommended?

But listed as a requirement?

Since July 28, 2016, all new device models, lines or series … must implement and enable by default TPM 2.0 …

TPM 2.0 Compliance for Windows 10

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I have seen many laptops from the last few years WITHOUT TPM. Also, many seperate mainboards are sold without onboard TPM’s. Often there is a header, but equally often the required module for a specific mobo isn’t available. Or there is no necessary bios-update. Most home users are not interested at all in Bitlocker, many businesses also don’t use it for a myriad of reasons. Last but not least: most 5 to even 10 years old systems run Windows 10 without troubles. We’re talking here about i5’s, i7’s etc. If a user encrypts his or her system with Bitlocker should be a personal choice, not forced by Microsoft. So this will cause major irritation by users. The first signs are there already ;-:

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TPM is not just for Bitlocker, but also Windows Hello (PIN, face, fingerprint etc.):

The TPM adds hardware-based security benefits to Windows 10. When installed on hardware that includes a TPM, Window 10 delivers remarkably improved security benefits. The following table summarizes the key benefits of the TPM’s major features.

How Windows 10 uses the Trusted Platform Module

Microsoft has been pushing TPM for at least nine years since Windows 8:

Today’s release of the Microsoft Windows 8 operating system brings embedded hardware-level security to the forefront. Microsoft, going forward, will require the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) chip on Windows PCs, phones and tablets, moving security checks to the platform’s lowest level. TPM isn’t new, but security experts hope this move by Microsoft lays the foundation for future security mechanisms built on top of TPM that deter today’s most sophisticated boot-level incursions.

TPM Chip in Windows 8 Lays Foundation for Widespread Enhancements to Hardware-Based Security

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anonymous wrote:

TPM 2.o is now a hardware requirement for Windows 11.

There is a fairly simple workaround for that.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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How so? I’m building a computer and most of the consumer motherboard don’t have a TPM, only the header and good luck to find the module. Also, there’s no standard for the pin-out of these modules, It may vary depending on the manufacturer and even between their boards.

 

 

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le_clandestin wrote:

How so? I’m building a computer and most of the consumer motherboard don’t have a TPM, only the header and good luck to find the module.

It’s a software workaround, not a hardware workaround.  No need for me to be concerned about it for a few more months.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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le_clandestin

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Judging by the detailed summary on the BBC website, Windows 11 is a Windows 10 Feature Update rather than a new Windows OS.

My main concerns are over the lack of choice, such as the new central position for the Start menu with no apparent indication of any reason for moving it from the left side or that there will be an option to position it yourself.

Similarly, the reference to quicker security updates that will install in the background hints to me that they will just happen, with no choice over “whether” or “when”.

I didn’t watch the stream and am only basing my comments on one website’s summary, but I’ll be interested to see other people’s interpretation and views on it all.

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AlexEiffel, JohnW, OscarCP

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My main concerns are over the lack of choice, such as the new central position for the Start menu with no apparent indication of any reason for moving it from the left side or that there will be an option to position it yourself.

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Seff, JohnW

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If that means they will stop issuing feature updates for those that exerce their announced right to not upgrade to 11 and stay on 10, count me in!

It would be like being in extended support for 10! The best thing that could happen to it! About 4 years of peace.

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WCHS, Cybertooth

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Betanews.com presents a list of Windows 10 features they say are deprecated or removed in Windows 11.

Two changes that caught my eye (others may focus on different items) are, for the Start menu:

Named groups and folders of apps are no longer supported and the layout is not currently resizable

and for the taskbar:

Alignment to the bottom of the screen is the only location allowed

The second of these is self-explanatory, but I wonder what exactly it means to say that “named groups and folders of apps are no longer supported”.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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R wrote:

In short, many consumers will not be able to upgrade to 11. Unless they buy yet another computer. Which they won’t, especially not if they just bought a cheap workhorse for home working. So yeah, this might be the infamous shot in the foot.

That sounds about right!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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JohnW wrote quoting R, who wrote: “So yeah, this might be the infamous shot in the foot.”

Or, maybe, the famous shot in the arm for Linux? Because we are entering now an uncharted territory where anything, however unlikely, might be possible..!

Thanks a million, MS!

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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For those who might be wondering about the possible implications of the changes in Windows 11 for the Open-Shell Start menu alternative, there is this discussion on the project’s Github page.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Pim, AlexEiffel

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Windows 11 supported CPUs are Intel 8th generation or later, and AMD Ryzen 2000 series or later :
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

What about older CPUs like Kaby Lake (7th generation) and AMD Ryzen 1000 series? Are they not supported by / not able to run Windows 11?

Windows 11 also requires TPM 2.0 hardware to run. Some motherboards released up to 3 years ago may not contain such hardware, like my own Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Ultra Gaming 2.0 (released in 2018) (but contains a so-called TPM header which apparently can accept a TPM hardware module). But in the BIOS settings of the motherboard there is a setting called Intel Platform Trust Technology (PTT), which as I understand can provide a TPM function without dedicated TPM hardware, so according to Microsoft if I enable that setting then the motherboards with the corresponding CPUs (8th / 9th generation) should be able to run Windows 11.

The main computer I am using is based on a X99 motherboard which is even older, only has a TPM header, and does not have the PTT setting in the BIOS. So apparently it cannot run Windows 11 as is. To this I say great!

From what I can see so far, Windows 11 does NOT have any kind of new features that can interest me AT ALL, so the fact that most of my computers can’t run it as is does not concern me one bit. In fact, if under the hood it is no different from Windows 10 (e.g. forced automatic updates) then I am not interested anyway.

As a Windows user clinging to old habits, I am well aware for some time I am no longer Microsoft’s target customer and Microsoft does not want to make a product for users like me who desires a not-always-changing OS for work. The release of Windows 11 just confirms this and I am staying with Windows 7 / Windows 8.1 / Windows 10 LTSC for the foreseeable future.

I do have one question about Windows 11 : If Microsoft insists on TPM hardware to run Windows 11, what about older computers that don’t have them but are able to run Windows 7 / 8.1 / 10, like mine (not that I want to upgrade but I still want to know Microsoft’s response)? Is Microsoft going to continue to update Windows 10 until its “retirement date” in October 2025?

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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I just installed this program: https://download.microsoft.com/download/1/d/d/1dd9969b-bc9a-41bc-8455-bc657c939b47/WindowsPCHealthCheckSetup.msi  and ran it (link from Martin Brinkmann’s site).

It tells me my laptop is not compatible with Windows 11 because it doesn’t have “Secure Boot”. Looks like I’ll be moving to Linux or FreeBSD prior to 2025.

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Pim

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Not having secure boot may just be a BIOS setting.
Go into the BIOS and see if it can be set.

cheers, Paul

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From Windows for BUSINESS page:

“What are the benefits of Windows 11 over Windows 10?

Windows 11 offers new productivity features and functionality designed to meet the challenges of the hybrid world, with a completely refreshed look and feel that helps you get more done with less stress.”

Microsoft recently bragged it would be the most exciting biggest change ever in Windows or something?

I don’t need to add anything.

But… maybe they plan something for security that is a game changer they just didn’t feel they needed to talk about because an empty marketing statement and a change of look is more convincing?

Mandatory Microsoft account on Home is scary for the future direction they seem to continue pursuing for Windows.

Oh and they talk about reducing stress in this answer and cognitive charge somewhere else by simplifying things for the user. How about kicking WaaS and its disturbing feature updates to simplify my life and go back to 10 years of support with not much changing in my tool unless I want to, in which case I will pay for the update and learn the new version well because it won’t constantly change?

Wasn’t Windows 10 supposed to be the last version and forcing updates to not have so many unmanageable versions of Windows? Now, we will have two WaaS versions with many sub versions still running in parallel for years. What a simple world we live in but how come there was less issues and it somehow worked pretty well when things were far more complicated in the Windows 7 and 8.1 days?

 

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OscarCP, Cybertooth

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I am running Win10 Pro 21H1 in Parallels VMs on four of my Macs (two Ivy Bridge, one Haswell, and one Kaby Lake) – none of which have T2 chips.
If TPM was enforced for Win10, how is this possible?

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TPM has been required on new Windows hardware for a decade.

But you don’t have to use it or even have it enabled.

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bbearren

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TPM modules: Here’s some good news for Dell owners from the Dell Knowledgebase that I found while I was searching for my Latitude E5450. There’s list of models that should come TPM equipped.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000103639/how-to-troubleshoot-and-resolve-common-issues-with-tpm-and-bitlocker

Good news: Many models are covered. Bad news: Some are only at TPM 1.2.

I found the TPM in my BIOS and enabled it, but the Windows tpm.msc revealed that my 5 year old Dell only has TPM 1.2. Here’s hoping that MS lowers the bar by Win 11 release!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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[JohnW]

PKCano wrote:

If TPM was enforced for Win10, how is this possible?

I think it varies. My latest Asus motherboard (bare bones for system build) has a pin header available for a TPM 2.0 module, which is available for separate purchase. So it is up to the system builder to get the parts installed, install Windows, and configure TPM.

But on my Dell Latitude, the TPM (1.2) was installed, but disabled in the BIOS.

So my bottom line conclusion is that Windows 10 doesn’t actually enforce it (unless I am missing something).

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

• This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by JohnW. Reason: typo

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This post might be useful to you in relation to a ‘needed’ TPM.

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/whats-your-feedback-for-windows-11/#post-2373458

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Some TPMs can be upgraded from 1.2 to 2.0 with a firmware update. I’ve done it a few times on some HPs that had shipped with Windows 10 downgraded to Windows 7. In those cases, the firmware is available from HP.

I do wonder why Windows 11 insists on it though? I haven’t been able to get an answer for that yet.

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steeviebops wrote:

I do wonder why Windows 11 insists on it though? I haven’t been able to get an answer for that yet.

So you have to buy new hardware. MS doesn’t make any money from Win11 free upgrades on older machines. But the the OEM vendor license undoubtedly costs $$.

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Pim, OscarCP, Cybertooth

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steeviebops wrote:

I do wonder why Windows 11 insists on it though? I haven’t been able to get an answer for that yet.

Microsoft explains Windows 11 requirement of TPM 2.0

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steeviebops, AlexEiffel

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Well, all in all we can conclude that Windows 11 is already a source of confusion and troubles before it’s even launched. Most Windows users with ‘older’ computers have battled through many Windows 10 bugs and resulting crashes. Updates leading to deleted documents and photos. Drivers that stop working after every upgrade. And now they expect after all these problems they’ll go buy a new computer to have access to yet another latest and greatest Windows? Wishful thinking, because most people realize by now that you can’t trust Microsoft in their promises. Besides all that, there is the forced new and for business users unusable Start menu (hey, didn’t we hear that one before?). Think it’ll be a long and painful way again for Microsoft to convince its business clients to upgrade and Windows and in many cases also their hardware. Ain’t going to happen. The technically embarrassing and rather amateurish presentation of the newborn spelled a difficult road ahead, the (technically unnecessary) limitation caused a storm of complaints within an hour. Worse PR than this a company can’t cook up in even its worst nightmares.

Sorry for being a bit negativish, but this whole debacle clearly shows that Microsoft doesn’t care about and doesn’t listen to its clients. The price will be paid one day. Probably sooner than many thought.

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R wrote:

Sorry for being a bit negativish, but this whole debacle clearly shows that Microsoft doesn’t care about and doesn’t listen to its clients. The price will be paid one day. Probably sooner than many thought.

Gotta wonder what the big enterprise clients will think about moving to Windows 11, if it would involve a total replacement of their PC inventory running Intel chips below 8th or 9th gen?

Extended support for Windows 10, anyone?

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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James Bond 007 wrote:

what about older computers that don’t have them but are able to run Windows 7 / 8.1 / 10, like mine (not that I want to upgrade but I still want to know Microsoft’s response)? Is Microsoft going to continue to update Windows 10 until its “retirement date” in October 2025?

Yes, it will. I don’t see Enterprise moving to Windows 11 in the next 2-4 years.

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steeviebops wrote:

I do wonder why Windows 11 insists on

Windows 11 insist on : Webcam, Bluetooth and Precision Touchpad.

https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf

Wonder what will AskWoody members (Susan?) with PCs having only 32GB (eMMC) storage do ?
Will they switch to Linux ?

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Alex5723 wrote:

Windows 11 insist on : Webcam, Bluetooth and Precision Touchpad.

https://download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf

Camera = Optional
Bluetooth = Excluding Desktop PC
Precision Touchpad = If Touchpad implemented

So none of those are actually required.

And that spec is for OEM designers:

“The goal of this specification is to enable Windows ecosystem partners to make design decisions for components and devices that will run Windows 11.”

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AlexEiffel, Alex5723

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Fantasy or reality, here you have my thoughts on what might come next — gradually:

Fact: Some “Enterprise” companies and organizations have a mix of Windows PCs and Macs as well as Linux PCs as their working computers. NASA certainly does.

Speculation: So, instead of buying a whole bunch of new PCs to run Windows 11, probably a reasonable alternative might be for them to keep running their current Windows PCs with Windows 10, get an extension of support for Win 10 from MS, when needed, move steadily meanwhile to using more Macs and Linux machines, eventually dump Windows altogether (unless at MS they repent and Nadella is strongly encouraged to change his present home address to a select location under a bridge), having these organizations transitioned by then to macOS and Linux.

In turn, this gradual process shall motivate the developers of software for Macs and for Linux to get busy building the sort of applications that those Enterprise companies, those organizations both private and governmental, need to get their work done, because it is going to bring in good business to develop that.

Afterwards, a further transition to Linux might take place. But that, if it were to happen, would be at some distant time from now, so it is something best not to speculate about.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Fred, Cybertooth

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Something going on in smaller companies for many years already. Slowly large enterprises are shifting to software running in the cloud. The only thing you need then is a browser and/or some tool to access a remote desktop. But it will all be mostly browser based. I can’t surpress the feeling that Microsoft is turning Windows into some toy for home users and slowly abandoning/demotivating its business users because they don’t want to spend too much time on mainting a beast and burden of the past. Wouldn’t be surprised that one day a slick Linux-version with Windows user interface appears, that boots into a browser. Indeed: similar as ChromeOS but with some Microsoft ‘extra’s’. Including of course their own app store. This feeling got much stronger after the announcement of the (partial) compatibility with certain Android-apps. Available of course via the Windows Store.

Maybe I am too suspicious though. Anyway, I stopped using Windows for work related tasks a few years ago. So in all honesty I don’t care personally anymore. But seeing the messy PR, communication, miscalculations etc being played out en public keeps being interesting. There is no improvement, Microsoft – and more specific the Windows department – keeps just blundering through a time they don’t understand much anymore.

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wavy, OscarCP

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@OscarCP,

All current Intel Mac won’t run Windows 11 with BootCamp as none have TPM 2.0.
It will be possible to install Windows 11 in VM.

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VMs use the Mac h/w – no TPM, no VM.

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so, in the mean time it’s not necessary to buy new hardware (yet)?

* _ ... _ *

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OscarCP wrote:

this gradual process shall motivate the developers of software for Macs and for Linux to get busy building the sort of applications that those Enterprise companies, those organizations both private and governmental, need to get their work done, because it is going to bring in good business to develop that.

I’m all for it! But I just wonder who those developers are? It’s a chicken or egg thing. You need a large user ecosystem to attract developers vs. you need a large app ecosystem to attract users.

I’ll leave Apple out of this for now, because I’m not a Mac user, and Apple is a very mature and solid business (world’s most valuable company, by market cap). I’m not aware of Apple showing much interest in Enterprise computing.

But while Linux (which I have been using on and off for 20 years) is quite possibly a better computer OS from a technical perspective, and is the most installed server OS globally, still has a looooong way to go to be commercially viable as a desktop. The reigning king of desktop is obviously Microsoft.

Sure, you build the apps, and they will come. But who is going to fund the development of a Linux Desktop application ecosystem? If the users were already there, it would not be that difficult. But only about 1-3% of desktop users are running Linux (depending on whose count is correct), so there is not a lot of revenue for a business to achieve a return on investment (ROI) for development.

Like I said, I’m all in, but I see too may obstacles for it to be practical. Unless a Microsoft or Apple funded a charity foundation for Linux Desktop Development…

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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JohnW: There might not be a lot of interest now, but that might change if the Enterprise users drifted gradually towards macOS and Linux, actively opening opportunities for the developers to get more business, money, conferences to attend, and whatever else rises their boats, as they see it.

Emphasis on gradually, hanging in there with Windows 10 meanwhile, etc., as I have outlined in my previous posting, the one that you answered above.

” [Linux] still has a looooong way to go to be commercially viable as a desktop.”

Most of the people I have anything to do with in Europe and also in Japan use Linux, and they use it both at home and for work. Unless you are referring to Linux as replacing Windows in the mass market, there I might agree with you — but who knows. However, that is not what I have been considering here: Enterprise is not mass market. But it is key to much of how PCs and the Internet are used for productive purposes, besides personal entertainment and messaging of one kind or another. And has a weight that, if applied for long enough, might tilt the playing field, for example, away from Windows and towards Linux. Maybe.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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R wrote: “There is no improvement, Microsoft – and more specific the Windows department – keeps just blundering through a time they don’t understand much anymore.”

A time they do not seem to understand anymore, their main product, Windows, becoming less and less useful to anyone trying to do with a computer anything of real and present interest and of value to the larger world beyond the users’ personal sphere of comfort.

And not doing very well in that sphere either.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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A workaround for Win11 hardware limitations seems? to be to replace appraiserres.dll in the Sources directory of the install media with a version from Win10 install media.  Some say you need a 1703 install media.  I tried it with a 20H2 x64 version and the install pgm ran and never complained about the vintage 2013 hardware.  I didn’t actually do the install tho, yet.

One source: https://winaero.com/how-to-install-windows-11-without-tpm-2-0/  There are many others.

 

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UPDATE
Microsoft have now raised the upgrade requirement bar for Windows 11

reference:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications#primaryR2

Server Editions >=1607 seem to be an exception to the TPM threshhold

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Cybertooth

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Folks might find this WhyNotW11 tool useful from here:

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/whynotwin11.html

WhyNotWin11 runs through the currently known system requirements for Windows 11 and then provides you with the results. There are now eleven categories included (well played, eleven for Windows 11); Boot Type, CPU Architecture/Generation/Core Count/Frequency, DirectX Support, Disk Partitioning, RAM, Secure Boot, Storage, and whether or not TPM minimum is activated. The interface provides clear results and is also color-coded.

This YouTube video might also be useful and informative on ‘How to Enable TPM / PTT’. It may not apply to all and different Motherboards/UEFI BIOS will have different settings/terminology.

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Cybertooth, Fred

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PKCano wrote:

VMs use the Mac h/w – no TPM, no VM.

VM (can) use vTPM

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Run on my Parallels Desktop Pro VM – it says: No Secure boot, No TPM.
This on a 3 year old iMac 4K, 3.6GHz quad core i7, 32GB Ram. Radon Pro graphics, 512GB SSD.
Not eligible.

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OscarCP

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I would have the same problems as PK if I wanted to install Windows 11 in my ca. mid-2015 MacBook Pro, as Macs have no TPM chips.

Question: Why would I want to install Windows 11 in a VM in my Mac?

Why YES:

(1) Win 11 the most secure Windows ever. According to MS.  Well …

Why NO:

(1) I would have to buy Win 11.

(2) I would have to install it in the VM, probably having to discuss matters with a robotic employee that spouts PR pabulum in answer to any meaningful and necessary question or comment, or, if I am lucky, with a real robot.

(3) I would have to live with my heart in my mouth, waiting for whatever evil patches for Win 11 MS choose to send my beta testing VM + Mac.

(4) I do not need Windows in my Mac. In fact I need no other OS there. But I would like to have Linux in a VM or even in dual-boot in my Mac (Nathan Parker has one of his, I understand it is a newish Mac, set up this way, so it would seem that it can be done.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Fred

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This might explain why Windows 11 is allowed to install in a Virtual Machine.

From this MS PDF document (page 16):

download.microsoft.com/download/7/8/8/788bf5ab-0751-4928-a22c-dffdc23c27f2/Minimum%20Hardware%20Requirements%20for%20Windows%2011.pdf

. . . . Windows 11 does not apply the hardware-compliance check for virtualized instances either during setup or upgrade . . . .

5 Virtual Machine
Microsoft recognizes that the user experience when running the Windows 11 in virtualized environments may vary from the experience when running non-virtualized. So, while Microsoft recommends that all virtualized instances of the Windows 11 follow the same minimum hardware requirements as described in Section 1.2, the Windows 11 does not apply the hardware-compliance check for virtualized instances either during setup or upgrade. Note that, if the virtualized environment is provisioned such that it does not meet the minimum requirements, this will have an impact to aspects of the user experience when running the OS in the virtualized environment.

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AlexEiffel

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There are workarounds for old HW, at least for the leaked .iso; search for: 21996 Boot And Upgrade FiX KiT

Here is WhyNotWin on a Lenovo T420 10-year old laptop with a 2nd gen i5 cpu.  TPM is present but not active.  MBR, no secure boot.

It runs fine – no worse than Win10 – not surprising since the underlying guts of Win11 are not that different.  A new shell, some added security stuff, even more features we don’t need.

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OscarCP wrote:

Why YES: (1) Win 11 the most secure Windows ever. According to MS. Well …

Here’s an idea…

Install Windows 11 as a VM on a dedicated Linux system.

Pros: You have the security and stability of Linux managing your hardware and network. With Windows 11 running in a VM, you can run any necessary Windows based software to your heart’s content!

Best of both worlds!!!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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See #2373684. Same thing goes for Linux machines.

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OscarCP wrote:

(4) I do not need Windows in my Mac. In fact I need no other OS there.

I’ll sing the W10 song as long as possible, and than enter this new life

* _ ... _ *

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rontpxz81, OscarCP

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I’m sure I’ll be purchasing new systems by 2025…so I’ll be ready when Windows 10 reaches EOL.

No compelling reason to upgrade now for an OS that is still in support for 4 more years.

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Just out today – Simple regedit bypass secureboot, tpm, 4gb ram requirements.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/how-to-bypass-the-windows-11-tpm-20-requirement/

The article title just says TPM but the article covers all 3.

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rontpxz81

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Precisely that was expectable. It will lead to a myriad of ‘adapted’ / ‘unlocked’ iso’s with side loaded malware. Windows 11 will be a heaven for cybercriminals. Mr. Microsoft from India looks forward to very busy and fruitful days ahead. The whole announcement, introduction and presentation of 11 was a total fiasco which you basically should hold off as long as possible. Now, that is the case with every Windows version but this time it’s really the time to wonder if you want to keep investing in Windows-capable hardware.

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rontpxz81

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