Reinstalling XP on another machine

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I shall soon be retiring my old Dell desktop, which runs Windows XP 32 Bit. My new machine will probably have Windows 8. I have a legacy application, that I wish to retain, that will not run under Windows 8, so I shall install XP in a separate partition or on a separate drive.

The problem is that my copy of XP is a Dell OEM “Reinstallation DVD”. I have seen it said that this can be used in the way that I intend, and elsewhere, that it cannot. Certainly, it is possible to buy the DVDs for ruined machines on ebay with (somehow) unused product keys that are guaranteed good for this purpose. However, since I already have the DVD, I would rather use this. Is what I propose possible, and if so, how do I get a new product key?

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If you could get it installed by meeting all the hardware prerequisites that will otherwise give you a bluescreen when installing, it is also quite unlikely you will find any compatible XP chipset drivers for the new machine. I mean the chances are really slim unless you build your own and the motherboard comes with XP drivers.

What might work (or might not) is to try Paragon’s GoVirtual program and make two different virtual machine images (so you can try them both), one for VMWare player and one for VirtualBox. Skip the Virtual PC one since it’s not supported on Win8. If that didn’t work you could then try installing to a virtual machine and getting that activated and installing what programs you need there. In that case the install should work since the hardware layer is virtualized, and don’t forget about the little white lie in all cases for activation of an OEM.

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What might work (or might not) is to try Paragon’s GoVirtual program and make two different virtual machine images (so you can try them both), one for VMWare player and one for VirtualBox. Skip the Virtual PC one since it’s not supported on Win8. If that didn’t work you could then try installing to a virtual machine and getting that activated and installing what programs you need there. In that case the install should work since the hardware layer is virtualized, and don’t forget about the little white lie in all cases for activation of an OEM.

Couldn’t he open a Hyper-V session in Windows 8 and install XP there?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Sure, that’s another way, more advanced but it should work. Is it included in all versions?

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The above comments were both useful, and prompted me to undertake a little ‘research’ on the matters referred to.

On the subject of chipset drivers, Intel produced updated versions in December 2012, and Windows XP is supported. The list covers some of the latest chipsets, and perhaps all of them. The link to my source is below:

http://pcsupport.about.com/b/2012/12/06/intel-chipset-drivers-windows-8-7-vista-xp.htm

Hyper-V looks very interesting (see http://www.infoworld.com/d/virtualization/5-excellent-uses-of-windows-8-hyper-v-208436?page=0,2).

There would seem to be no reason why XP could not run under this. Interestingly, it seems that it would be valid to make an image of an XP system drive, and use this. I have now reduced the size of the system partition on my second hard drive to 14GB, and intend to make an image copy onto a 16GB flash drive. I shall also retain the two drives themselves when the machine is dumped.

Given that Hyper-V or something similar will always be available, it seems to me that there is effectively no time limit for running XP using this method. If that is the case, people with XP-based legacy applications can relax. My only reservation is that virtual machines must surely run much more slowly than physical machines.

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Given that Hyper-V or something similar will always be available, it seems to me that there is effectively no time limit for running XP using this method. If that is the case, people with XP-based legacy applications can relax. My only reservation is that virtual machines must surely run much more slowly than physical machines.

This is very true in the hardware sense. In fact, people with very old machines, running an old but critical program, would do very well to either try to install it on a newer machine, or install it in a virtual machine, because the old computer will sooner or later fail and be unrepairable, leaving them with nothing.

But from a software perspective, as the OS gets older (in this case, XP), there will come a point when people quit supporting it. For example, no more Windows updates, and no decent anti-virus software available.

This isn’t a huge issue, because you’re using the old OS (i.e. XP) only for one piece of software; all your other software, your printers, your phone, etc., will all be running / connected in the host OS environment (e.g. Windows 8), which means that just about all that you are running WILL be supported.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Jim:

With the particular application that presents the problem, there is no reason to connect to the Internet. I have found that when booting from a second hard drive, I do not have Internet access (and have been unable to find out how to get it). Perhaps this would also apply to an OS running under Hyper-V. Presumably, if there is no Internet access, the issue of viruses, updates, etc does not arise. However, this is only a presumption; I do not pretend to know.

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Jim:

With the particular application that presents the problem, there is no reason to connect to the Internet. I have found that when booting from a second hard drive, I do not have Internet access (and have been unable to find out how to get it). Perhaps this would also apply to an OS running under Hyper-V. Presumably, if there is no Internet access, the issue of viruses, updates, etc does not arise. However, this is only a presumption; I do not pretend to know.

If you have a separate computer, not connected to the internet or to any other computer, then you are exactly right. You don’t need to worry about anti-virus or Windows updates. However, if you ever copy files to that computer from, say, a flash drive, the possibility exists that you could pick up some malware in that way. But that is not likely, especially if the computer you copied the file from is protected.

In fact, for a long while this is exactly how I had my wife’s office set up. She had an AutoCAD network, not connected to the internet; and she had an internet-connected network. The AutoCAD network was peer-to-peer, connected by a basic switch, with shared printers. There was no connection to any other computer, nor to the internet. All computers ran Windows 2000 for a long time. Last year I upgraded all of her computers to XP. When she wanted to send or receive a drawing, she moved it via flash drive between the two networks. I never ran updates of any sort on the AutoCAD network, and I didn’t have any kind of anti-malware software.

On the other hand, if you use Hyper-V or some other virtual machine, it is likely that the virtual machine will have internet access. Also, there is the possibility that something could get from one side to the other. Therefore, you need to keep up with all of your updates AND have anti-malware software in the virtual machine environment.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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It is not valid to use an OEM XP version on anything other than the original PC. To install on a new PC or in a VM you need a retail license.

Joe

--Joe

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Pity. Seems that Infoworld must have got it wrong. I wonder if there is any way to decide who is right (I have no view
either way).

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Seems that I misread the infoworld article. Nonetheless, at least there is a legitimate way to handle the problem. Perhaps also an illegitimate one as well, given that that the OS in the image will already have been activated, although I am not suggesting that anybody should do that.

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I have used OEM to install on another machine and I just had to re-validate the install and it’s been working fine.
Of course, I am only running it on one machine and not two.

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I’ve just had a closer look at the Dell “Reinstallation DVD”, and here is what it says:

“The software is already installed on your computer. Only use this DVD to reinstall the operating system on a Dell PC”.

Note that it does not say “…on the same PC”. The inference is that it can legitimately be installed on a different PC (provided, of course that it is a Dell PC), and has been removed from the other. This may be why some people have had no problems in making the switch, although I am not sure how Microsoft would know whether the new machine was a Dell or not.

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I’ve just had a closer look at the Dell “Reinstallation DVD”, and here is what it says:

“The software is already installed on your computer. Only use this DVD to reinstall the operating system on a Dell PC”.

Note that it does not say “…on the same PC”. The inference is that it can legitimately be installed on a different PC (provided, of course that it is a Dell PC), and has been removed from the other. This may be why some people have had no problems in making the switch, although I am not sure how Microsoft would know whether the new machine was a Dell or not.

The install DVD is tied to the BIOS of the original machine. The only way I know of to get around this is to modify the DVD content and build a new DVD. That does NOT mean it is legal to do this. Windows operating systems supplied by computer vendors are licensed to be used only on the machine on which it was originally installed. It is a violation of the original EULA regardless of how you choose to interpret what is printed on the DVD.

Joe

--Joe

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Joe:

Fair enough. If the logical interpretation of the wording on the disc is inconsistent with the the actual licence terms then the latter obviously prevails. Leaving aside the legalities, however, it does seem somewhat absurd that it should be necessary to buy a whole new licence just to run legacy software on a machine where there is a new OS. Something that Microsoft should address, maybe.

I was interested by your reference to the BIOS, though. Surely, if running an OS in a virtual machine, that becomes irrelevant. It is difficult to see how it could work otherwise.

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Well, that’s probably because it’s a branded version from Dell..
I misunderstood what you said in your original message.

I only use OEM operating systems when I buy them because my windows 7 system and my XP I built myself.

I believe Dell motherboards are made for Dell so that’s probably the reason you need to install the Dell OS..

That’s just my opinion and maybe others here can offer a solution.

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John: Keep in mind that if you run Hyper-V or some other virtual machine, you will need to keep up with your Windows (and other) updates in the virtual machine AS WELL AS in the host machine. Also, you’ll need anti-virus software in both the virtual and host machines, as well as keeping up with the updates, scanning, etc, in both machines.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I think Joe is only referencing why the DVD indicates install on Dell PC and not the particular one you have or a different brand…because there is a group (Dell) activation key in the Dell motherboard BIOS, and also referenced by Banyarola in that re-activation was required on another system. It is still a violation of TOS but at this point, being several years since Microsoft has had a financial interest in XP, and in fact any time spent on activation of an install, other than one that is clearly a pirated serial (many instances of activation tracked) is costing MS money. They know at this point that for the most part there are very limited numbers of new systems that are compatible with XP and are not concerned with XP replacing a Windows 7 or Windows 8 sale. Again though it doesn’t matter one iota to the parties concerned, it is illegal to take an OEM virtual.

I’m not sure what different modes of networking there are in Hyper-V. Probably similar to those of the free VM software vendors which have three main flavors; host only where there is no Internet connection, just a private network between host and VM. NAT where the VM shares the I.P. address of the host so you have an Internet connection but local networking is isolated unless other settings and alternates are active. Bridged mode is where the VM appears and acts much as an independent PC with full local networking and Internet access.

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Also, the speed/performance issues. Having the VM on another drive helps; running it over USB 2 is adequate, USB 3 is good; on a SSD in any situation nearly removes all perfomance issues,especially if its a separate drive.

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Quite a lot of interesting points have been raised in this thread. Before setting out my conclusions, I need to make a further point about the OS licence.

Both parties to a contract must know the terms. I can find nothing in the literature supplied with the computer which gives any information as to the OS licensing terms. All I have to go on is what is on the discs. Of course, there may just have been something in the website terms and conditions, but I suspect not; in any case, the average computer buyer cannot (in practice, even if legally) be expected to read those.

My conclusion is that a possible course of action for anybody wanting to retain the use of an XP-specific application on migrating to Windows 8 is as follows:

1. Make an image of the system partition running XP.

2. Copy it to a second hard drive on the new machine.

3. If it works, attempt to activate it with Microsoft, being careful to tell the truth (most people will probably ignore the last point). If Microsoft activates it, that is the end of the matter. If not:

4. Install the image under Hyper-V. If it works, and no activation is required, again, that is the end of the matter. If activation is required, and is successful, likewise. If not:

5. Buy a second-hand retail copy of XP. There probably will not be many competitors, because few people will reach this point, if the experience of others (both here and elsewhere) is anything to go by. If unable to do so, however, I leave Loungers to draw their own conclusions as to what most people should do next.

As to malware and updates:

a. avoid the malware problem by disconnecting from the internet while XP is running;

b. updates for XP are now only for Internet security issues, and will end in April 2014 anyway.

In reaching the above conclusions, I am indebted to those who replied to my original and subsequent questions/observations. If my conclusions are wrong, no doubt I will hear about it.

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When you first start a new PC, you must agree to the EULA not far into the first boot process. You have to opportunity to read the EULA. If you choose to refuse to agree you can not continue. Once you agree, it does not make any difference if you’ve chosen not read the EULA. I know of almost no one who reads the EULA for any software but you are still bound by the terms if you agree to them.

Joe

--Joe

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Joe:

Of course – I’d forgotten that. Not surprising, really, considering that the software comes already installed. Presumably the agreement is just something that flashes up on first starting the machine. I’m not embarrassed, however; the purpose of setting out what one believes to be the case is partly to gain information – thank you.

I do not think that it negates my suggested procedure, however.

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Once you agree, it does not make any difference if you’ve chosen not read the EULA. I know of almost no one who reads the EULA for any software but you are still bound by the terms if you agree to them.

Joe

That statement reminds me of an interesting discussion in another forum some time back so I don’t totally agree with it.

Anyone can release software with pages and pages of legal mumbo jumbo hidden in a EULA that includes (should you choose to use their wonderful software) you agree to give the software vendor the right to contest ownership of your entire estate upon your death – This of course would be ludicrous (precisely why it’s a great example) and if legally challenged in a court of law, would have absolutely no chance whatsoever of holding up.

That said, until a EULA has been tested in a court of law to ensure it does not violate any civil rights of an individual, (depending on the individual circumstances of the case) then it’s not worth the space it occupies apart, from maybe being a “guideline” in so far as what the software developer considers fair. Are you bound by it and is it legal – The only accurate answer to that can be a “probably” or even a “maybe”

My point to commenting on this is that I I think your statement “you are still bound by the terms if you agree to them.” isn’t entirely accurate. Microsoft have lost their fair share of fights in the courts over things in the past, as have other software developers.

I’m not suggesting everyone should just ignore End User License Agreements, but whilst most people “believe” that clicking a button agreeing to an EULA is an automatic “binding” and “acceptance” of anything might be written in there, I think it’s important to note that may not necessarily be the case – the only way to find out is if the EULA is tested in the courts. You only need to upset someone with deep enough pockets to challenge an aspect of software usage (or transfer to another machine as is the case in this thread) before you can really say you’re bound by them.

I know from my own experiences that (given enough time – say at least 6 months from initial activation) OEM operating system software like XP, Windows 7 or even OEM versions of Microsoft Office, can most certainly can be activated on totally different machines, automatically, over the Internet without any problems whatsoever.

Does doing that that break the OEM EULA? Absolutely.

More importantly however, does it break the law? Now that’s getting into a grey area – only a court of law could determine that..

Should you do it? Probably not.. Lots of maybe’s there to consider though.

Just my 2c

Cheers…

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In my experience very few users bother to read EULAs, let alone understand them.
And a vendor’s EULA cannot, in fact and in logic, overrule the law of the land (whichever “land” you’re in).
The courts (worldwide) have long since recognised this, and almost all nations have enacted “copyright” legislation incorporating “fair use” provisions.
As a Computer Consultant I find myself repeatedly installing/updating/upgrading software on customer’s computers many times each day. If I took time to read (much less understand) the legalease gobblydegook presented in each such EULA I would not get past job#1. The courts recognise this, hence the courts’ “fair use” stance.

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In my experience very few users bother to read EULAs, let alone understand them.
And a vendor’s EULA cannot, in fact and in logic, overrule the law of the land (whichever “land” you’re in).
The courts (worldwide) have long since recognised this, and almost all nations have enacted “copyright” legislation incorporating “fair use” provisions.
As a Computer Consultant I find myself repeatedly installing/updating/upgrading software on customer’s computers many times each day. If I took time to read (much less understand) the legalease gobblydegook presented in each such EULA I would not get past job#1. The courts recognise this, hence the courts’ “fair use” stance.

I agree that a EULA can not be in opposition to the laws of the particular country in which it is being used. I don’t know what “fair use” means where you are but in the US here is a quote from U.S. Copyright Office website:

“One of the more important limitations is the doctrine of “fair use.” The doctrine of fair use has developed through a substantial number of court decisions over the years and has been codified in section 107 of the copyright law.

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.

1.The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work”

There is further information on that page. From the information presented there I don’t think that “fair use” applies to this instance. Another detailed discussion of Fair Use can be found at Fair use – Wikipedia.

I’m not disputing that you can install or reinstall software many times each day. I know that there are many people who use the same copy of Windows to install on many PCs but have purchased enough licenses to cover the machines. While technically they may be in violation of the license I know of no circumstance where someone was taken to court for it. I’m saying that when you buy a PC that the Windows operating system is licensed to be used only on that PC. If you install it on another PC without a corresponding license for that PC you have violated the EULA. It makes no difference whether the user thinks that it seems like a “fair use” or not. Remember, all this discussion was about an OEM version of Windows not a retail version.

Joe

--Joe

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…I know that there are many people who use the same copy of Windows to install on many PCs but have purchased enough licenses to cover the machines. While technically they may be in violation of the license I know of no circumstance where someone was taken to court for it. I’m saying that when you buy a PC that the Windows operating system is licensed to be used only on that PC. If you install it on another PC without a corresponding license for that PC you have violated the EULA. It makes no difference whether the user thinks that it seems like a “fair use” or not. Remember, all this discussion was about an OEM version of Windows not a retail version.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by “the same copy of Windows”. If you mean the installation CD (or DVD), then those are merely the installation media used to install Windows and do not constitute a “copy of Windows”. Many of my customers have misunderstood the notice on Windows install discs “Do not make illegal copies of this disc” and assumed that this means the disc must not be copied. The keyword is “illegal”, i.e.: if a copy of such disc is made with altered files on it (which is what the counterfeiters do), then such a copy is illegal. It is not illegal to copy a Windows install disc for legitimate reasons that comply with the EULA (such as system builders installing multiple copies of Windows concurrently [each copy with a unique licence, of course]).

When the EULA refers to “copy of Windows” (or “copy of the software”) it means the software installed on the computer which is subsequently executed and used by the user of the computer. In the case of individual copies of Windows the EULA allows for one copy of Windows to be used on one computer at any one time. Hence there should be a “COA” (Certificate of Authenticity) sticker (AKA “licence sticker”) attached somewhere on the exterior of the computer which has the licence key printed on it.

Having a copy of Windows on two different computers with both using the same licence key is not allowed in the terms of the EULA, and is obviously not “fair use” (note: “fair use” here in Australia is pretty much identical to the US definition).

I venture to remark on Windows 7’s excellent “Backup and Restore” feature. This can be used to not only backup user files, but to create “images” of the Windows installation. Each of these “images” contain a “copy of Windows” (by necessity – they are a bit-by-bit copy of the raw data on the Windows partition), but cannot be executed directly. If MS intended their Windows EULA to mean that such “copies of Windows” are not allowed they surely would not have included such functionality in Windows 7 (and 8). There is no essential difference here to cases where users have a copy of the same-licenced Windows installation on different partitions or hard drives in their computer (one computer). Such users cannot, in practise, run more than one of these “copies of Windows” concurrently – rather they can only boot into one of these “copies of Windows” at any one time, so they are not breaching MS’s EULA.

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VM strategy for malware protection is super easy if you don’t require Internet access. Just run it with the network adapter in host mode. Maybe malware could get in through the host’s Internet connection and infect the VM, I know its not likely at all but maybe possible. No way for the VM to bring in or introduce any malware to the host. Also backup it dead simple, just make a copy of the VM and store it somewhere and if anything ever happens to the VM in use, delete the whole thing and bring in a fresh copy. The only caution is not to store a single copy of any data only on the VM in use.

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There is a very simple and inexpensive solution to what you need to accomplish that is considerably more stable and reliable than any of the solutions offered here. Keep your old computer, just the “box”, and connect the new one and the old one with a KVM switch. Unless you have space limitations where the computers would be used, this would be a very simple and reliable solution. I have been using a Windows 2000 box and, a Windows XP box for several years and added a Windows 7 box during Windows 7 beta. This setup has been totally reliable with a 4 port KVM that replaced the original 2 port switch when I added Windows 7 beta to the combination. I have a spare connection for times that I need to connect another computer without having to round up or disconnect keyboards monitors, etc.

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John3447:

That’s fine, until the old machine packs up. It also assumes that this is not what has necessitated the purchase of a new machine.

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Lots of ground to cover here.

1. Whether it is legal and/or possible without hacking or prevarication to move an OEM XP license from one system to another (removing the original system, of course: it’s CERTAINLY not legal to use the same license for more than one system at a time) may depend upon the date that OEM XP system was built (Microsoft made major changes to its OEM licensing model in 2005, and its own statements about what is and is not legitimate to do with OEM licenses have varied both over time and sometimes at the same time).

2. I transferred an XP Home OEM license to new hardware (which I bought myself) from a system which we inherited that may predate that licensing change, using the OEM product key found by MagicalJellyBeanKeyFinder and an XP Home SP3 generic OEM installation .iso (can’t remember where I found that, but if you can find the equivalent it’s likely the cleanest way to install XP on new hardware rather than trying to use your Dell OEM disc). It activated on connection with the Microsoft activation servers with no human intervention (let alone ‘creative’ narrative) required.

3. XP (even SP3) may only be installable without AHCI enabled in the BIOS. As long as the BIOS supports a legacy (may be ‘IDE’) mode, though, both XP’s and Win 8’s AHCI support can be added (and then enabled in the BIOS) after installation. However, XP won’t be compatible with UEFI (BIOS replacement) and GUID-(vs. MBR-)style disk partitioning, which most new Win 8 systems may use: perhaps someone else here can say whether a new Win 8 system based on UEFI can be imaged to a backup drive and then restored to a configuration in which UEFI has been disabled and MBR-style partitioning has replaced GUID-style partitioning on the disk (if the disk is over 2 GiB in size, this will make the portion beyond 2 GiB effectively inaccessible without special drivers). You may, however, be able to use UEFI to boot a DIFFERENT hard drive with MBR-style partitioning to run XP from without modifying the as-purchased Win 8 setup.

4. I was interested to see that the Intel drivers you found claim to be usable all the way back to Windows 2000, but that was so surprising that I wonder whether that level of backward-compatibility exists for ALL the hardware platforms they support (you might want to make sure of this before depending on it for XP: lack of usable chipset drivers tends to be a show-stopper, whereas lack of support for some ancillary hardware may be tolerable).

5. Hyper-V is not supported on Windows 8, just on Windows 8 Pro (and Enterprise): be careful what you buy if you want to use it. Virtual Box, however, does claim to run on Windows 8.

6. I’m still running the last version of Avira AntiVir that supported Windows 2000 for malware protection on my Win2K system, and Avira is still issuing signature and engine updates for it 32 months after Microsoft stopped supporting Win2K and 30 months after Avira’s new versions of AntiVir stopped supporting Win2K. Avast may STILL support Win2K in its newest versions (they certainly did until quite recently, anyway). If XP support follows the same pattern, your XP system should be able to remain protected for another 4 years or so, especially if you are sitting behind a hardware router that effectively makes you invisible to external probes.

That’s all that comes to mind at the moment. Good luck.

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I’m still running the last version of Avira AntiVir that supported Windows 2000 for malware protection on my Win2K system, and Avira is still issuing signature and engine updates for it 32 months after Microsoft stopped supporting Win2K and 30 months after Avira’s new versions of AntiVir stopped supporting Win2K. Avast may STILL support Win2K in its newest versions (they certainly did until quite recently, anyway). If XP support follows the same pattern, your XP system should be able to remain protected for another 4 years or so, especially if you are sitting behind a hardware router that effectively makes you invisible to external probes.

Vipre still works with Windows 2000.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Lots of ground to cover here.

6. I’m still running the last version of Avira AntiVir that supported Windows 2000 for malware protection on my Win2K system, and Avira is still issuing signature and engine updates for it 32 months after Microsoft stopped supporting Win2K and 30 months after Avira’s new versions of AntiVir stopped supporting Win2K. Avast may STILL support Win2K in its newest versions (they certainly did until quite recently, anyway). If XP support follows the same pattern, your XP system should be able to remain protected for another 4 years or so, especially if you are sitting behind a hardware router that effectively makes you invisible to external probes.

That’s all that comes to mind at the moment. Good luck.

Avast is still active and is regularly updated on my Windows 2000 installation. I have seen no notifications or heard any rumors that this is expected to change in the foreseeable future. This is the most stable OS I have ever used. I believe it has only become more stable after Microsoft quit disrupting the system with “security updates”. I do still get Office XP updates on Windows 2000. Numerous antivirus and antimalware applications are still available and regularly updated for Windows XP.

One question comes to mind reading these posts. I had a Gateway computer that was sold with an included “reinstall CD” (Windows XP was sold on a CD, not DVD). This reinstall CD was not a copy of the operating system. It was a boot CD to boot your machine to access the OS on drive D if it fails to boot. Your “reinstallation DVD” is not actually a boot CD is it? Does your XP machine have a drive D on it? If it does and the reinstall DVD came with the computer, it is probably actually only a boot CD. Verify this before you find yourself disappointed in an inopportune situation and have to back up to “start” and go a different direction.

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Avast is still active and is regularly updated on my Windows 2000 installation. I have seen no notifications or heard any rumors that this is expected to change in the foreseeable future. This is the most stable OS I have ever used. I believe it has only become more stable after Microsoft quit disrupting the system with “security updates”. I do still get Office XP updates on Windows 2000. Numerous antivirus and antimalware applications are still available and regularly updated for Windows XP.

One question comes to mind reading these posts. I had a Gateway computer that was sold with an included “reinstall CD” (Windows XP was sold on a CD, not DVD). This reinstall CD was not a copy of the operating system. It was a boot CD to boot your machine to access the OS on drive D if it fails to boot. Your “reinstallation DVD” is not actually a boot CD is it?

Does your XP machine have a drive D on it? If it does and the reinstall DVD came with the computer, it is probably actually only a boot CD. Verify this before you find yourself disappointed in an inopportune situation and have to back up to “start” and go a different direction.

My disc is a full installation CD of Windows Home Edition including SP2, which came with a Dell PC purchased January 2005. So no problems there.

I’ve been looking further into virtual machines. VirtualBox seems a better bet that Hyper-V for these reasons:

1. It can be used on any version of Windows from 2000 onwards.

2. It can be used on Linux.

3. The documentation is better.

4. It isn’t Microsoft (which has some advantages in the situation posited).

It is only for the technically-minded, but perhaps so is Hyper-V.

One problem with my plan to use a disc image, however, is that it must be exactly that, and not merely a partition, so flash drives are not practical. XP would have to be installed into the virtual machine, if the original hard drive was not available, which would presumably necessitate re-activation. But as we’ve seen from others, this should not be a problem. It seems to me that once that has been done, the image of the virtual machine could be transferred to any machine without further re-activation, if there was no Internet access (which is not needed in my case).

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Bill:

Awful lot to think about here. For the moment, I’d just like to clarify one point – the Intel list refers to XP as the earliest OS covered by the latest updates, not Windows 2000. (See the link in my earlier post.)

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the Intel list refers to XP as the earliest OS covered by the latest updates, not Windows 2000. (See the link in my earlier post.)

While YOUR link refers to XP as the earliest OS covered by the latest updates, the actual INTEL link included within your link includes Windows 2000.

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While YOUR link refers to XP as the earliest OS covered by the latest updates, the actual INTEL link included within your link includes Windows 2000.

So I see. The article in the link that I gave omitted Windows 2000, for some reason.

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Simple question:

Did you try to run the program’s installer in Windows 8 XP Legacy Mode? Not just running the program in XP Legacy Mode, but the installer as well? This strategy can make older software install in a Compatibility Mode and it works from then onwards. Not always, but it may be worth trying. To run an installer in Legacy Mode requires placing a copy of the installer somewhere within Windows 8, then changing the installer’s Properties to run in a Legacy Mode.

-- rc primak

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Simple question:

Did you try to run the program’s installer in Windows 8 XP Legacy Mode? Not just running the program in XP Legacy Mode, but the installer as well? This strategy can make older software install in a Compatibility Mode and it works from then onwards. Not always, but it may be worth trying. To run an installer in Legacy Mode requires placing a copy of the installer somewhere within Windows 8, then changing the installer’s Properties to run in a Legacy Mode.

Haven’t actually replaced the old desktop yet. However, my wife has Windows 8 Pro on her laptop, so I’ll see if I can negotiate some time on it (only joking). Sounds promising, though.

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Even with Internet access, it’s no problem; Hyper-V does not have the ability to capture USB port attached devices either. I think its more of a special purpose test bed type of offering while VBox and VMWare are too but they can also easily support full-fledged operating systems with very few boundaries.

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Even with Internet access, it’s no problem; Hyper-V does not have the ability to capture USB port attached devices either. I think its more of a special purpose test bed type of offering while VBox and VMWare are too but they can also easily support full-fledged operating systems with very few boundaries.

Would there not be a problem if the virtual image was copied onto another machine, with both in use? With both systems paging Microsoft for updates, would that not cause a problem, given that they have the same product keys?

Contractually, people should not do that, of course. However, given that XP would be used in conjunction with a ‘legitimate’ OS, and that it is needed because the latter cannot run some older applications, I don’t think that there is too much wrong with that.

On reflection, I suppose that turning off automatic updates would do the trick.

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There probably would be a problem if one made copies and distributed them and they started phoning home from many different I.P. addresses. However, the convention for replicating VMs for backup (simple copy) does nothing to change the XP hardware assessment number that is generated to detect when it is used in another system. The only two issues on a home network are name and local I.P. replication, which are easily changed individually.
I feel this is quite an acceptable practice as long as the operating system in question is far removed from a financial interest to the company, and as you say, it can actually foster a sale of a new system/OS if a customer knows they can put a copy of the old OS in virtually to run a program or two that might otherwise make them hang on to the old system for a while yet.

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I have many times fitted new motherboards to Windows computers after motherboard failure; in no such instance has activation failed.
If challenged during the activation process (rarely) I simply tell the MS activation staff member the truth – that the customer’s motherboard failed and I have fitted a new motherboard. Not once have they argued with this.
In about 10% of cases the existing Windows installation will refuse to work with the new motherboard, requiring reinstalling Windows.
Also, many users (for various reasons) have copies of the same Windows installation on their hard drive, and use a boot manager to boot between them. This is acceptable according to the principles established by the many court rulings in cases wherein the MS EULA (and others) was in question. To paraphrase, “it is within the terms of the meaning of ‘fair use’ to have multiple copies of the software installed on the same computer, provided only one copy of the software can be used at any one time”.
However, understand that I have not attempted to use the same Windows licence key on two different computers, whether using a virtualisation program or not. Obviously, if both were Internet-connected, whether concurrently or not, then at least one would soon be detected as being in violation.

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Many thanks to all those who contributed to this thread.

Having received so much advice, I feel I should give an update. My chosen solution was VirtualBox. This did exactly what I wanted. There were a few wrinkles that needed to be ironed out (not having read the manual thoroughly in advance).

Once all of the features are understood, this is a very powerful piece of software. For those deciding to use it, note that the “guest additions” are essential to gain the full utility of the application.

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Once all of the features are understood, this is a very powerful piece of software. For those deciding to use it, note that the “guest additions” are essential to gain the full utility of the application.

Same for VMWare Player, called VMWare Tools. It’s been a while since I compared but a couple years ago I thought those tools/additions to be slightly superior in VMWare and also like a feature called Unity that VBox lacked, wherein one can run almost any virtual program seemingly just as another ordinary window on the host or even place shortcuts to those few programs on the host desktop. I’m sure there are ways of accomplishing the same thing in VBox for the essential programs requiring virtualization but Unity seemed awesome; it would let me run I.E. 10 on the XP host seemingly; if I thought I.E. 10 was worthy of being a full-time browser that is.

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Do your research; I’m still a little unclear whether a VHD will resort to using virtualized drivers that interact with the host PC’s hardware or if you’ll need to install XP version drivers for your new hardware. It’s less than likely that drivers even exist, so that would be a deal breaker.

All the tutorials I keep finding on the net talk about running Windows 8 from VHD on an old XP machine… which is scary and kind of sad. However, I imagine you could essentially do the same from within Windows 8. You could use VMware to create a VHD with Windows XP installed on it, then configure the VM so that it writes and reads a raw and separate partition instead of padded VHDD storage. Move the VHD to the separate partition and then use a boot manager to point at your Windows 8 partition, and the XP VHD image on the new partition.

Legally, everybody has been right. You won’t be able to use the OEM copy of XP you have. If you find out you don’t need drivers, it might still be worth buying a non-OEM XP SP3 install disc and licence; especially if you specifically use software that isn’t compatible with Win8.

There are still other options. For $60, there’s CrossOver Linux which is touted for it’s compatibility with Windows software. Check their “What Runs” section to ensure it’s worth a purchase. If you insist on a free option, there’s always Wine, but it runs under Linux and some distros force you to install and configure it. Depends on how much you want to screw around with this project I guess.

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