Recommend Windows, Mac, or something else?

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So I need a new laptop. The old one was bought in the dog days of 32 bit computing, before 64-bit really took off, and is now underpowered and slow. It has as much memory as a 32bit machine can handle, and I regularly prune it so that I only have the software that I need.

And so I’ve been looking around, but we are at something of a crossroads in laptop computing right now. And no, a tablet is no good as my sole business machine.

I can’t pretend that I like Windows 8.1. My son has it, and seems happy with it on his touch-screen laptop. My daughter also transitioned to it from Win7 on a non-touch laptop. But… No, sorry, I can’t bring myself to like it, at least not as my primary business machine. But Win10 is some way off yet. Can I wait that long? And will it be worth the wait?

What about Macs? With software such as Parallels the switch shouldn’t be too hard/painful – but do I run into licensing issues with Windows/Office/etc transferring from my laptop to the virtual windows machine on the Mac? And there is that price tag! I usually buy good laptops that last (Sony Vaio Z, currently, bought as a Vista machine so pre-Win7), but the Apple price tags make me wince a little.

And then there is Linux. I read several posts here about Linux, but I’m just not sure if I want to move to something that is not “mainstream”. And I use that word advisedly – I know that some folks will scream that it is very mainstream, thank you, but this is my business we are talking about, and sorry but it isn’t mainstream enough. I want something that I am not going to have to spend hours learning.

So what advice do you have for me?

Thanks
Stuart

[PS – I laughed when I read that Macs are more versatile than Windows laptops because Macs can run Windows while Windows can’t run MacOS. That’s only because Microsoft will sell you an OS, while Apple won’t! As you can see, I am finding it difficult to get sensible, balanced, advice!]

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You sound like someone who likes the traditional start button and desktop of Windows 7 and prior versions of Windows. As I see it, if you go with Windows, you can either try to find a Windows 7 machine, or you can get a Windows 8.x machine and install one of the add-ins which will make it look and feel like Windows 7 (StartIsBack, ClassicShell, etc). I have Windows 8.0 32 bit with StartIsBack, and I am very pleased with it. Windows 8.0 feels more fast and efficient, and StartIsBack makes it look and feel almost exactly like Windows 7, except that it feels faster. I tried Windows 8.1 for a time, but the ride felt bumpier with 8.1 than with 8.0. (I have an old machine — Vista era — so that may have something to do with it.)

A few years ago I looked at the price of Mac vs Windows — it was about twice the price for the Mac for roughly the same capacity. Also, my anti-virus and other software wouldn’t work on the Mac, and I was totally unfamiliar with the Mac.

There is tons of software for Windows, but not as much for the Mac.

I went with Windows. I have no regrets.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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My wife warmed up to Win8.1 on her new Notebook after I installed Classic Shell and it boots directly to the Desktop, mostly works like Win7 and earlier.

I have a MacBook Pro, Linux Mint on a Desktop and a Notebook, Win7 and Win8.1 on both Desktops and Notebooks and a Vista computer still working. Most versions of Linux are free and for testing one can download an .iso file to create a bootable LiveCD or LiveDVD disc, will do most everything and can install to the HDD from that disc.

There’s free software for Linux but as it is with Mac there’s more paid-for choices. For productivity and commonality I frequently use the free LibreOffice on all platforms and can work with Office files. Microsoft does have a Mac-version of Office, user files interchange with the Windows version.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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I have a MacBook Pro, Linux Mint on a Desktop and a Notebook, Win7 and Win8.1 on both Desktops and Notebooks and a Vista computer still working.

And of all of those, which do you prefer and why? Or are you just using them all as test beds?

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I have 8.1 that boots straight to the Desktop, but I haven’t bothered with a Start menu as you get used to the new way pretty quickly. This seems to me to be a pretty good compromise between W7 and 8. It also runs all my old software, and VMware Player for all those virtual machines I want.

cheers, Paul

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I like Linux for the cost and it runs on lesser equipment than Windows but I need Windows for what I do and the 3 versions to be able to see what others see when they have problems.

I have half a dozen clients that have changed to Mac and I needed to learn more about it.

Linux Mint is a decent alternative for WinXP computers that can’t be upgraded to later versions of Windows, have a couple of Notebooks that won’t run Win7 due to obsolete technology [Intel Centrino CPU] so put Linux Mint 13 on them, others have Linux Mint 17. There’s a few other versions of Linux that are suitable for changing from WinXP, mostly a display thing to keep familiarity.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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First go and see what Macs cost. They are high priced computers. If you are still interested after that, don’t compare them to budget laptops or netbooks, There are some very nice and comparably priced Windows machines available.

If you want something nice, and aren’t scared off by the price, find something that is several years old on ebay or Craigs List, to see if you like it and can get up to speed. Then if you like it, resell it, and get a new MacBook Pro, and if you don’t like it resell it and get a new Windows 10 laptop when they are out.

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I’m not scared by price, necessarily. I’m not about to shell out regardless – I don’t own an iPad precisely because I don’t see a business need for it – but I am prepared to pay that bit more for a higher end machine that will last me many years. But certainly Macs are a high price for what they are / what you get, compared to Windows machines of comparable build quality.

It’s just … I’ve played again over the weekend with son’s Win8.1 machine and I just don’t like the OS. I’m trying really hard, honest!

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I’m not scared by price, necessarily. I’m not about to shell out regardless – I don’t own an iPad precisely because I don’t see a business need for it – but I am prepared to pay that bit more for a higher end machine that will last me many years. But certainly Macs are a high price for what they are / what you get, compared to Windows machines of comparable build quality.

It’s just … I’ve played again over the weekend with son’s Win8.1 machine and I just don’t like the OS. I’m trying really hard, honest!

I don’t like Windows 8/8.1, and I don’t have any computers that run them. When I recently got a new laptop for my wife, I got an HP Probook 4540s that was “downgraded” from Windows 8 to Windows 7 Pro.

I have been running Window 10 Preview on an old computer. It has a lot of the appearance issues that I don’t like about Windows 8/8.1, but other than appearance, in my opinion, it’s a lot better.

I still think you should get a used MacBook and try it. It will tie up some money while you are trying it, but then you can resell it, and in the end it will cost you little or nothing.

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@Prescott…

+1

I have multiple Win 7 devices (plus 1 remaining XP box… and 2 Linux boxes) but really, really disliked Win 8 so haven’t updated (and have downgraded on 2 newer laptops).

I also have a gorgeous 17″ customised MacBook Pro which I love for certain things… but it’s not my day-to-day device.

I am really looking forward to Win 10 to see if MS can recoup their losses in terms of user satisfaction (although I accept that that may just mean me. )

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I have multiple Win 7 devices (plus 1 remaining XP box… and 2 Linux boxes) but really, really disliked Win 8 so haven’t updated (and have downgraded on 2 newer laptops).

I have a couple of Windows 7 boxes, my wife has one in the next room, and both her laptops are Windows 7. My laptop is Linux Mint 17.

I also have an XP box. It is here right beside me, on the floor, not hooked up to anything. I don’t have anything that I have to run, that has to be run on XP, so I’m just not motivated to keep it up.

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sjr,
Windows 8 and 8.1 can easily and free (of charge) be set up to run in desktop mode. You would be in a familiar environment and could use all the software you are used to.

IMHO much more important and having much more massive long term consequences are Micro$oft’s blatant attempts to lure/force us into giving them our email address. That creates an “advertising ID” and the results of that I see almost daily in my customer’s Inbox in the form of dozens and sometimes hundreds of unsolicited advertisement emails.

Only my $0.02 though.

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sjr,
Windows 8 and 8.1 can easily and free (of charge) be set up to run in desktop mode. You would be in a familiar environment and could use all the software you are used to.

IMHO much more important and having much more massive long term consequences are Micro$oft’s blatant attempts to lure/force us into giving them our email address. That creates an “advertising ID” and the results of that I see almost daily in my customer’s Inbox in the form of dozens and sometimes hundreds of unsolicited advertisement emails.

Only my $0.02 though.

I have used my email address as a Microsoft account since Windows Phone 7.1, then on Windows 8.0 and then 8.1., I get zero unsolicited emails from Microsoft. Zero. This after using a Microsoft ID for 3 years and using it extensively – Windows Phone, Windows 8.x, OneDrive, Visual Studio Online, Azure, XBox Live. I only receive the emails I want from Microsoft. Every email message I get from Microsoft (and I get a few I want, since they provide technical info I am interested in), includes a link to unsubscribe, in case I want to stop them.

If I have to tally them, I probably receive 2 or 3 Windows Phone related emails per year (other than those that result from software purchases) and more regular Azure newsletters on the constant improvements of Azure’s technical offerings. The number doesn’t get to one per month, on average. I also get a couple notifications about expiring subscriptions (XBox Live the only one coming to mind, right now).

Considering my experience, I thus feel I must respectfully submit that your customers must be responsible for most, if not all, email messages they receive. In my case, as I stated, I don’t even get 20 emails a year, from Microsoft. Talking about dozens or even hundreds is absolutely preposterous and I doubt your customers use Microsoft software and hardware solutions as much as I do.

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IMHO much more important and having much more massive long term consequences are Micro$oft’s blatant attempts to lure/force us into giving them our email address

I did give my Hotmail address on one setup of Win8 but when I got a new 8.1 Notebook in March I did not do so, followed the prompts to skip that. But then I may need to do so if wanting to download from the Store. Not a big problem, I have to do the same with my MacBook Pro and Apple’s Store. So far I’ve not received any unwanted/undesired E-Mail from either.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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It sounds as though you intend to run Windows and Windows-based software on your new laptop (“do I run into licensing issues with Windows/Office/etc transferring from my laptop to the virtual windows machine on the Mac?”).

If so, why not simply buy a new Windows-based laptop? You can still buy some models with Windows 7 pre-installed, or select a desirable model with Windows 8 and learn how to make that OS work for you. (After all, you would have to learn Apple’s OS X should you elect to go that route.) This will get you up and running with new hardware; you can then decide at your leisure if you wish to upgrade to Windows 10 once it is launched and stable. There will be no rush, because Microsoft is committed to support both Windows 7 and 8 for quite a while.

Or, stay the course with your current hardware until Win 10 is out and about and buy a new laptop with it pre-installed. Given current estimates that we will see this new OS launched by mid-2015, the reviews should be in by late summer and laptops with pre-installed Win 10 in stores soon thereafter.

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It sounds as though you intend to run Windows and Windows-based software on your new laptop (“do I run into licensing issues with Windows/Office/etc transferring from my laptop to the virtual windows machine on the Mac?”).

If the software that I wanted/needed was available natively on the platform I choose, then I’m not wedded to what I have got. But bearing in mind that the Macs are much more expensive, it was a question of whether I could limit my outlay (if I go that route) by using existing software in a dual boot / VM way. For example, Office 2013 is, I think, now a single non-transferrable licence. But if I am VM-ing my old OS into a new environment, does that still apply. And can I even move the OS – it is a kosher copy, rather than OEM, as the machine originally came with Vista and I upgraded it, but is it slaved the processor?

If so, why not simply buy a new Windows-based laptop? You can still buy some models with Windows 7 pre-installed, or select a desirable model with Windows 8 and learn how to make that OS work for you. (After all, you would have to learn Apple’s OS X should you elect to go that route.) This will get you up and running with new hardware; you can then decide at your leisure if you wish to upgrade to Windows 10 once it is launched and stable. There will be no rush, because Microsoft is committed to support both Windows 7 and 8 for quite a while.

Or, stay the course with your current hardware until Win 10 is out and about and buy a new laptop with it pre-installed. Given current estimates that we will see this new OS launched by mid-2015, the reviews should be in by late summer and laptops with pre-installed Win 10 in stores soon thereafter.

True, although late summer is quite a while away and I seem to spend some moments of every day waiting for my laptop to open something or churn through something. And that “..and stable” comment could be a bit of a gotcha.

I hear everything you are all saying, but I can’t pretend that I’m any closer to deciding. Perhaps I’ll wait until my daughter is back from uni and play with her boot-to-desktop Win8.1 to see if it is any better.

Thanks
Stuart

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Question A is like this:
1. Like free software
2. Apple is 2X Windows PC price
3. Install some software yourself

And question B:
1. Mostly boot up and use the web exclusively
2. Seldom install software
3. Hates Win8 interface. Apple too expensive.

Question C:
Apple a day …
Short answer – Go all Apple all device all the way. Don’t look back.

If Yes on A, get Windows 7 or Win8/10 PC
If Yes on B, brave new world and move to Linux.

If you just boot up and use the web mostly (include check mail), there is only minor difference between Linux PC and Windows PC. Firefox on Linux looks the same as in Windows, Android. Think of the web browser as the OS, in a sense.

Linux for a wile, you might feel at home later with Android and Apple devices too. (They are Linux variant in a way. Actually all of them are derived from Unix).

This month’s ‘Win Secrets’ article says even MS is moving toward Android and Apple, leaving Windows behind. You might follow MS steps!
Brave a new world.
There is backtrack option too:
Later, if you don’t like Linux, then buy Win7/8/10 and wipe the PC back to Windows OS.

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I resurrected a 4-year old HP Pavilion G6 that wouldn’t allow Win7, installed Linux Mint 17 and it was good. Today I decided to install a 128GB SSD with the same Linux Mint and it works good, very quite since the only moving part is the fan unless working with CDs and DVDs.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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Am I the only diehard who sees Windows 7 as the XP of the future – the OS that refuses to die (but for the fact that Microsoft refuses to sell it)?

Businesses can still get it, but how big the business has to be I don’t know. I am confident that anyone can get it legitimately by online purchase and install it by themselves, and I expect there are faster and easier ways than that.

I consider it the most suitable OS for business purposes, and it would go well on a compatible (i.e. non-touchscreen) new computer.

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I’m sure you are not the only one who sees W7 as the only real Windows version for business use.

cheers, Paul

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Windows 7 is the OS of the present, and for now it is fine. I have two Windows 7 Desktops, and my wife has two Windows 7 laptops. One is an old Core 2 Duo with 4GB of memory that she uses mainly for email, and the other is a new Core i7 with 8GB of memory that she likes to play games on. She also has a Windows 7 Desktop, but she hasn’t powered it up in over a year.

My laptop is Linux Mint 17. Going forward, when I feel that Windows 7 is played out, I am going to use some flavor of Linux, and I am going to get my wife a MacBook Pro.

I don’t want a system that requires me to log into Microsoft every time I want to use it. I know that currently you can use Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 without signing in to you Microsoft account, but you have to do some pretty obscure things to do that, and I can see which way things are going. It will get harder and harder to do it. I don’t trust Microsoft enough to have them know that much about what I am doing.

Best to start thinking about it now.

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If you want some idea of what the current operating system market share is, here are three links you might check (and track over time)

OS Platform Statistics and Trends

Usage share of operating systems

Desktop Operating System Market Share

It still depends on what your business use happens to be: if you are involved in graphic arts you will almost certainly want a Mac.

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Prescott, does Apple monitor usage now like MS and Google? Indeed, might Linux do so (can anyone guarantee that particular Distros don’t have that built in)? Now or in the future. It strikes me that we have no control about what s/w and h/w suppliers might or might not do now or in the future. These aren’t rhetorical questions, I just put them forward to discussion.

Dogberry, personally I would never worry about market share or stats when it comes to which OS (or indeed browser) I would use. For me it’s what it offers and how easy is it for me to use. Cost is another consideration which why I wouldn’t go to Mac, but then I’m not involved with graphic arts. If I was it would be a Mac (same if I was involved in professional music).

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Prescott, does Apple monitor usage now like MS and Google? Indeed, might Linux do so (can anyone guarantee that particular Distros don’t have that built in)? Now or in the future. It strikes me that we have no control about what s/w and h/w suppliers might or might not do now or in the future. These aren’t rhetorical questions, I just put them forward to discussion.

Ubuntu is definitely going that way. They offer all kinds of things that you have to log in to their systems to use.

Linux Mint and most other distros, at least currently, are not doing it. That is something that can change at any time, and I will try to stay on top of it, but since they are volunteer and non-profit, they would tend not to do it, and since they are open source, you can check on it.

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I doubt I would know what to look for to be able to say whether they were spying or not. That would be true of most users. But then, if they went to ‘the dark side’, there would enough knowledgeable people to scream blue murder (if I’m not mixing my metaphors).

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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As I interpret it, two of the three sources I linked to obtain their stats by detecting their users’ OS online, presumably respecting the anonymity of said users, and track the results over time. If you never go online with a computer, presumably to them, then they have no idea what OS you are using. The Wikipedia link is based on claimed sales figures, and discusses fallibility in general. It doesn’t quite get around to discussing advertising or to cooking the books, but readers should keep such things in mind.

Market share is very big indeed for businesses, for a number of reasons.

There will be an extremely large pool of accumulated knowledge about the system, which can be readily accessed. In all likelihood the Windows 7 section of the Lounge probably has a better batting average at solving problems for users than other sections.

There is a reasonable expectation of familiarity with the system among new employees, depending on factors like employee turnover with expansion and contraction of the business and attrition through retirement or losing employees to better jobs elsewhere. This is subject to the qualification that if the business is big enough it will have its own network(s) and systems administrators, and the average employee will simply have a workstation.

Business-to-business transactions at the electronic level are likely to be move more smoothly if they are using similar systems. It’s still just a matter of protocols, and things like SharePoint are in the Office software, not the OS, but if you’re using what other businesses are using chances are you can speak the same language in at least one sense. Standardization, especially if you are dealing with a system that has a successful track record, is an asset.

For a business, the OS is a business expense, and cost is examined with that in mind. The cost per unit will also be much lower if you have a site licence, which may or may not apply to any businesses you have in mind. Standardization within the enterprise is a desirable goal, but if it’s big enough to be an enterprise it probably has a lot of legacy devices that are working and are still paying their keep.

Here I am, an IBM cash register on every counter, a pneumatic mailing tube system from there to the counting-room; I dictate to my stenographer who gives her notes to the typist who delivers the copy to my secretary… Where did I go wrong?

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Here I am, an IBM cash register on every counter, a pneumatic mailing tube system from there to the counting-room; I dictate to my stenographer who gives her notes to the typist who delivers the copy to my secretary… Where did I go wrong?

Probably a more secure system than any modern one – perhaps you didn’t go wrong….:lol:

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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I use PC devices mainly because of work. My wife used a Mac Book Pro because it works, in her words. I had bought her a Ipad Air when she was in Hospital. She passed away October 24th, so I have begun to use the iPad Air with 128 Gig. The Other Apple product my wife had bought was a Mac Book Pro with an SSD drive. We were both in agreement that SSD is a bit iffy in some circumstances, so if you use a Mac Book Pro with an SSD drive, then backing up is more of a necessity than on a Standard PC. I Use a Dell Inspiron that has a 500 Gig drive and an SSD drive of indeterminate size ( I just never got to work with it). I Like the Inspiron for simple functions and easy repair, but the iPad works nicely for me since instead of the cloud I use a one terabyte wireless drive from Seagate that the iPad air accesses easily. I use Dragon Naturally Speaking on my Desktop and Inspiron mainly because of arm injuries. I had surgury/ies over 5-8 years, and Dragon Premium version 12 and 13 ( 12 on the Desktop and 13 on the laptop) both work well. For some reason I have a teensy problem with Dictating on iPad, but its not too bad… my accent may be the issue. Anyway, I switch from one to another based on purpose. I use the desktop for editing and writing. Its kind of a creative reason, but I write with either pencil ( mostly) or pen for some things. If I was going to ask what I needed, I would have to say the iPad with a PC desktop with memory maxed out ( I use VmWare Desktop for Learning/teaching myself OS’s and apps ). Susan from the Magazine had sent me a guide on how to remote to the Desktop from the iPad Air. About all I have not done yet is put my AV and Anti-Malware for iPad which I need to find. I am going to use ESET for my Mac Book Pro.

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Do you believe in love at first sight – for a computer? It is impulsive, irrational (but not entirely), and what the heck.

Yesterday I visited two major-chain computer stores, made a few small purchases, and then, stunned, I saw her. (Of course a beautiful computer is a ‘her’.) It was beauty that snared me, I’m sure, for this creature had a 28-inch screen with an HD photo on the monitor that would compare with the landscapes of Edward Weston or Ansel Adams, but in colour, and my Christmas gift to myself had been a new camera that I’m crazy about but still learning.

The hardware side of it is that the computer is a desktop Mac, and for anyone curious about the camera it is a Sony. I referred to it as ‘the poor man’s Leica’ when I bought it, but now that I am learning it online it is smarter than any traditional camera, and it is a ‘miniature’ camera, which is what Leica originally was. This means I don’t have to lug a cannonball, which is neither a pun on a name-brand nor dismissive of any configuration, and I still have my own cannonball (for sale, I guess). Anyway, the new camera is a Sony A6000, the alpha having been universally anglicized to A, probably in all languages but Greek.

One theme of the thread is ‘work’, so this won’t change that factor in deciding on a system, but I do take exception to the imperative of ‘cost’. Yes, the Mac costs a couple of grand – which is exactly the same dollar cost, with no conversion for inflation, as a Commodore 64 in its day. In other words, it costs less than a Commodore 64 did. We are all super-wealthy in hardware cost, but tend to forget it.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, and I see nothing wrong in having a computer for pleasure. Yes, I have an interest in graphics (including a business interest, but I lack the knowhow) and yes, I would like a Mac, Mac, but we all have budgets and this is over mine at present.

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If you are migrating from XP, there will be a significant learning curve depending on how much you get into the system. I realize Linux Mint is quite popular here but it does not cut it for me on an old laptop, particularly for a lot of wireless adapters. I found LXLE (Linux) worked best on several old laptops. This seems to be the best distro for just install and go. Quite fast. No broadcom wireless setup! Connection is just like any modern device. Includes some great utilities. The only downside is Claws mail! but that can be replaced with Thunderbird.

It’s possible that XP could also be installed either as a dual boot or in virtual memory, but might require some assistance to do so, but would retain some familiarity until you get used to the new environment.

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“LXLE (Linux) worked best on several old laptops…”
Hmm, I almost forgot LXLE. Thanks for reminding me. I just repaired an old IBM laptop (!). I’m going to install LXLE to it, run VPN server for the whole family. May make it as gateway and honey pot too.
Thanks, Fontman.

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In the last Windows Secrets post David Robinson writes: “Linux also runs happily on older hardware. If you have a working Windows XP computer that you want to update to something modern, chances are that a newer Windows version will run poorly — if at all. Linux will run just fine. Using older hardware also avoids one of the Linux limitations: possible lack of support for the latest cutting-edge hardware.” I have seen this claim in many Linux forums in som way. Unfortunately it seems very depending on wich brand of old hardware you are using. I am happily running Ubuntu 14.04 with dual boot Win7 64Bit Home Premium on my hpCompaq SG3-351SC (4MB RAM). On my Acer Aspire 5820TG TimelineX laptop (4MB RAM) I could run Ubuntu 13.04 with dual boot Win7 64Bit Home Premium but upgrading to Ubuntu 14.04 was not possible (the system became unbootable). I was forced to install Ubuntu 13.10 from USB image on the Linux partition. Ubuntu 13.10 is slower than 13.04 on the Acer laptop but works ok. Trying to install Mint on my old Dell Optiplex 170L with dual boot WinXP SP3 just did not work. Ubuntu 14.04 did install but was useless because of extremely laggy respons. Puppy Linux installed just fine and was quite responsive as well as Lubuntu 14.10 I am runnig now. But WinXP is much faster on that old Dell Optiplex 170L (2MB RAM). The claim that Linux makes your old hardware “sing” again must thus be taken with some grain of salt.

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I didn’t want to toss out a Dell Inspiron 700m with Centrino but couldn’t run newer than WinXP so I installed Linux Mint 13 on it. A problem with the Centrino is support of PAE/Physical Address Extensions which Mint 13 didn’t need but newer versions do. I have Mint 17 on a desktop and a newer Notebook.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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