Problems accessing Time servers on Win 8.1 and Win10 1607

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I have a series of messages from CT: Have you noticed any problems accessing MS or NIST Time Servers. I run in to this problem here in Calgary, AB, Ca
[See the full post at: Problems accessing Time servers on Win 8.1 and Win10 1607]

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I get this on all systems, not specific for Win 8.1/10

ntp1.oma.be never failed for me

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Hey woody sorry to bother you again, I have a small problem that started happening today and idk how to fix it. Each time scroll the 1st items name of the line of file I’m scrolling in front of appears in a bubble like one of those preview bubbles that appears in when you over a mouse over a folder. I have tried rebooting but it didn’t fix it, the only thing I have installed is the new defenitions for MSE today, I also dled some files my friend sent me but they were cleand ( I double checked). This only happens when I scroll with the white scroll thing ( idk how it’s called in english), if I use the arrows or press a space in the bar to make the thing go there it doesn’t happen. Any ideas?

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PS: Here’s and example http://imgur.com/gallery/Wvstd

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It reads like they banned his IP or a block on his local router.

I didn’t know we were using anything other than us.pool.ntp.org…

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time.windows.com works fine for me.

Aren’t there plenty of public timeservers in Canada?: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/ca

Why would time sync affect ability to download updates anyway (if date/time is correct)?

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I experienced the issue with time-b too but unfortunately, i don’t have any other explanation to add. I am also in Canada.

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When I upgraded my TP to 15007, it hung up like that. I disabled the WU Service then re-enabled it and it worked (maybe a coincidence). Won’t hurt to try. I’d manually set the correct time first though.

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Here’s what I use:

pool.ntp.org
time-a.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov
time-b.timefreq.bldrdoc.gov

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I am still getting “Access is denied” on all in the “Internet Time’ GUI in W 10.0.15007.1000.
In W 8.1 and W 10.0.14393.693 things seem a bit more amicable this morning.

From another Post Woody turned me on to:

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2858764/windows-time-sync-error.html

I started looking at “w32tm”, an here is what I have found:

PS C:WINDOWSsystem32> w32tm /tz
Time zone: Current:TIME_ZONE_ID_STANDARD Bias: 420min (UTC=LocalTime+Bias)
[Standard Name:”Mountain Standard Time” Bias:0min Date:(M:11 D:1 DoW:0)]
[Daylight Name:”Mountain Daylight Time” Bias:-60min Date:(M:3 D:2 DoW:0)]

PS C:WINDOWSsystem32> w32tm /?

……… (This is to long to post, do it yourself in either PS or CMD.)

PS C:WINDOWSsystem32> w32tm /query /source /verbose
The following error occurred: Access is denied. (0x80070005) <<<< w32tm /query /status /verbose
The following error occurred: Access is denied. (0x80070005) <<<< w32tm /query /peers /verbose
#Peers: 1

Peer: time.nist.gov,0x9
State: Active
Time Remaining: 31641.9910374s
Mode: 3 (Client)
Stratum: 1 (primary reference – syncd by radio clock)
PeerPoll Interval: 17 (out of valid range)
HostPoll Interval: 10 (1024s)
Last Successful Sync Time: 2017-01-22 10:44:16
LastSyncError: 0x00000000 (Succeeded)
LastSyncErrorMsgId: 0x00000000 (Succeeded)
AuthTypeMsgId: 0x0000005A (NoAuth )
Resolve Attempts: 0
ValidDataCounter: 1
Reachability: 3

So it appears that even though I am logged on as Admin and PS is open as Admin, I am not elevated enough to see this.
This must be the the explanation for the “Internet Time’ GUI “Access is denied”. Do I need to setup a Super Admin account to see my Time settings?

At Least I know from the ‘Peers’ ‘Query’ above that I am synced to the NIST Time Server, so that can’t be a problem for other broken things in W 10.0.15007.1000.

Thank You Woody for Posting this. Hopefully it will help somebody else…..

Best Regards,

Crysta

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According to the NIST Internet Time Servers website, time-nw.nist.gov is permanently offline.

http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi

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For standalaone machines, use pool.ntp.org, or a variation of it. Check their web site.
There is also a Windows 7 related KB article which I cannot find now for reference, but the issues are:
– The mechanism for time sync has changed from Windows XP and now there is a scheduled task which triggers time sync by starting the w32time service, now manual by default, but this happens too rarely
– The w32time service has now the so called triggers, for certain events.
The reality is that the best option for reliable time synchronization for stand-alone machiens is to revert to the functionality from Windows XP. This applies to Windows 7, Windows 10 and possible Windows 8.1

For querying the triggers
sc triggerinfo w32time

For deleting the triggers
sc triggerinfo w32time delete

Disable the Scheduled Tasks under Time Synchronization

Set the Windows Time service as Automatic (Delayed) Start)

In the Registry:
Under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionDateTimeServers change the values for the new servers that suit you. Please be aware that the value under Default needs to be updates. I prefer to keep the value as 1 and under the 1 value add the new server. This registry key does not affect the functionality, but only the GUI where the time configuration is performed.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetServicesW32TimeParameters

NTPServer should be the string which is the time server that the GUI configures, followed by “,0x9”
Type should be NTP

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetServicesW32TimeTimeProvidersNtpClient
SpecialPollInterval is the value (deciaml) between time synchronizations. I prefer here the value 900 (15 minutes), other recommendations are for 3600 (1 hour).

The Microsoft default is a combination between the Scheduled Task which triggers the service and this value here for randomization I suppose, but it makes the synchronization unreliable.

All above applies only to stand-alone machines. Do not try it in an Active Directory Domain.

If it all gets messed up, the time service can be reset by doing

net stop w32time
w32tm /unregister – deletes the service
w32tm /register – recreates the service
net start w32time

Some people here do w32tm /resync or other combination more complex, but I found it unnecessary.

I am convinced that all sounds too much work and it is and should be working like this out of the box (like in XP/Server 2003).

If the procedure described is too involved and it is not quite necessary for machines restarted at least daily, then just change the time server to one of the ntp.pool.org servers, or only:
0.us.pool.ntp.org

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You might have to run PowerShell as Administrator.
Or else, enable the built-in Administrator account, set a password and use that one for otherwise locked tasks.

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Arghhh! Too many typos in my too long post, please ignore them, otherwise I will have to ask Woody to edit too much

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@ch100 and @Woody

This is way above my pay grade, so Woody don’t post unless you or Ch100 approves. But if the goal is simply to get your clock to have the correct time, here’s how I’ve done it for years. I know it works for everything below, and inclusive of, Win 8.1. I think it would work in Win10.

First, I use a small utility called AtomTime: http://www.nlsa.com/atomtime.html . Use the free version available by clicking “here” at the end of line 2. This is an old utility from the mid-90’s, it doesn’t even install in the Windows Programs file. You just install it in a folder on your hard drive then create a shortcut on your desktop to launch.

Second, I manually set a timeserver in the “settings” menu for AtomTime from this list: http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi . What has been stable for me, for a long time, is: 64.113.32.5 (Southfield, Michigan).

Third, simply launch AT and use the “adjust” and “check” buttons until you get where you want to be in terms of accuracy.

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@ch100 and @Woody

Added: There are only two files in the AT zip file, the program and a word document that describes the program. Perhaps reading the Word description of the program will tell you and if this will work for the current problem without people having to play with the registry or entering instructions in the run box.

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thank you!

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@ch100 and @Woody

I’ve also used : http://www.worldtimeserver.com/atomic-clock/ , and it has been updated through 2012.

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@ch100 and @Woody

This one might be helpful for Win10 peeps if the other programs I suggested don’t work: https://github.com/White-Tiger/T-Clock/releases. I also use a previous version of this on my Win7-64 and Win8.1 tablet.

Please vet before posting.

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Hi Doc,

This was most helpful, Thank You for the Link!!!

Best Regards,

Crysta

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Hi CH100,

This is the first I have heard of “ntp.pool.org”. I am used to just using the GUI but as you saw in my comment, I am getting used to W32tm.exe.

For ME, 15007 is very broken in many places, I have Rolled back to 14986.1001 again. WU in 14986, however just rolls its Marbles with NO progress bar. It was working earlier in the week so maybe it MS’s Server problems again….???

Thanks for all the suggestions CH 100 and everyone else….

Best Regards,

Crysta

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From NTP Support…

http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Servers/WebHome

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@JNP
I see no reason for Woody not to post your replies.
I admit that my method is complicated and I am not recommending it to the casual user who may not need synchronization every 15 minutes or 1 hour. I presented it for reference only, for those interested. It uses the native built-in tools, which may not be the best performing, but it is likely to cause the least trouble.
I have known about third party time clients for a while, but I have never tried them.
I am not in any position to approve or disapprove what other posters post here.

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Sorry Crysta
It is pool.ntp.org

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@Ch100

I was trying to thread the needle between my lack of confidence in whether these tools were appropriate, or not, by asking you and Woody to vet: First do no harm, especially when I am not using Win10.

More obviously, can we all step back for a minute and consider how mind-blowing it is that, twenty plus years into Windows and, at least for some people, Windows can’t get the time straight.

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“Microsoft does recommend that workgroup computers sync from the Microsoft NTP server (time.windows.com).”

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/262680/a-list-of-the-simple-network-time-protocol-sntp-time-servers-that-are-available-on-the-internet

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This might be the reason why they created the mess starting with Windows 7, because time.windows.com is overloaded now.

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This is my reference article which I could not find.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/2385818/windows-time-service-doesn-t-start-automatically-on-a-workgroup-computer-that-s-running-windows-7-or-windows-server-2008-r2

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Some time back I noticed that the various typical/standard time servers seemed to be more and more overloaded. I’m guessing that more and more mobile devices must put a heavy load on them beyond what Windows does.

I switched to running, from the Task Scheduler, a piece of software called nistime-32bit.exe published long ago by the NIST. It still works. I have it set to run with the “Once” parameter every 2 hours with a randomization delay of up to 1 hour.

I have used several different time servers, with my current choice – that works a majority of the time but not EVERY time – being utcnist2.colorado.edu. It’s the last one on the list of suggested servers in the application.

Why 2 hour intervals? I have activities that need to be coordinated to within a fraction of a second.

In any case, using a scheduled task means one less service running and having it sync more often than the Windows default of once a day creates a better likelihood that my system clock is always accurate to a fraction of a second.

Here’s a list of time servers, along with current statuses about how loaded they are:

http://tf.nist.gov/tf-cgi/servers.cgi

-Noel

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I am not having this problem on W 8.1

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HAHAHAHA Yes! What I have learned, is there can be a great cavernous difference between MS official and MS Eng Reality.

The same adage applies here, IF IT WORKS FULLY FOR YOU, KEEP DOING IT! However if you are getting many Event Errors Thrown because certain drivers update checks by your system are occurring, you might want to change you time server. It is a Decade+ problem that took most of that time to figure out the solution, WU Driver Time Syncing Issues.

Best Regards,

Crysta

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What I found over the weekend is, FOR ME there were definite WU/MU MS Server access problems for Insider Builds.

On 14986 I did a cleanup of WU files with my own methods as well as the troubleshooters and found the WU/MU Services were also corrupted(this maybe because it CAN’T connect) using PSWindowsUpdate I unregistered the MU Service but reregistering the Service remained Pending when left the partition last night. That is a clear indication along with the other problems the the servers were not available.

As for 15007, Its Network issues are much more then Time. If my shares on my LAN were accessed before the Upgrade(they were) I could still access them. However, trying to access the LAN through ‘Network’ it tells my I don’t have a LAN or Internet. Believe me, the Internet was very much there, the Browser was working OK.

Woody, Thank You for your support!!! As far as I am concerned this wraps up this Thread., I have Learned more about Computer Time. Thank You everyone.

Best Regards,

Crysta

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The problem is there I think, because it is still there on Windows 10.
Different people are affected in different ways or not at all.
The service starts when the Scheduled Task starts it or when triggered, but certain environments are more sensitive than others and this does not affect Active Directory joined machines at all as the built-in triggers are related to AD.

Start Service
DOMAIN JOINED STATUS : 1ce20aba-9851-4421-9430-1ddeb766e809 [DOMAIN JOINED]

Stop Service
DOMAIN JOINED STATUS : ddaf516e-58c2-4866-9574-c3b615d42ea1 [NOT DOMAIN JOINED]

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What’s the connection between Time Sync and Windows Update?

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I’m running Win 7 HP SP1 and use time.microsoft.com for time sync. I have it set to automatically sync every 7 days with a scheduled task. There have been no noticeable problems for me doing it this way.

Dave

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Here is some info on problems downloading Build 15014:
Scroll down to known issues
https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/01/19/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-15014-for-pc-and-mobile-hello-windows-insiders-today-we-are-excited-to-be-releasing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-15014-for-pc-and-mobile/

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_update/pc-build-15007-download-stuck-at-0/d510e14b-9df4-4672-a45b-92374604d999?tm=1484333206303

Mine is still not upgrading from 15007 to 15014. It evidently times out and resets back to “Install update” button. There is no download ~BT folder and no evidence that it’s doing anything.

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I have not checked today but I will tomorrow.

You and I are experiencing the same thing. THIS IS NOT SPECIFIED IN THE KNOW ISSUES. We never get anywhere near the progress bar!

My supposition is that they have either pulled the Build or blocked it from being Downloaded. There might some qualification with/over ones hardware or software BUT I personally don’t think so. It also maybe part of their TESTING, that I have no opinion about…..

Lets wait and see what the next Build brings in the next day or two….

Best Regards,

Crysta

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Quote from “Known Issues”

IMPORTANT: The download progress indicator shown when downloading this build is currently broken under Settings > Update & security > Windows Update. It may look like you’re getting stuck at 0% or at other percentages. Ignore the indicator and be patient. The build should download fine and the installation should kick off. See this forum post for more details.

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From Microsoft

“PC Build 15007: Download stuck at 0%
Jason[MS] started on

Microsoft

Hello Insiders!

With the release of 15007, some users are seeing their build download get “stuck” at 0% for very long periods of time. Some users are fixed by simply rebooting their PC, however other users find that they remain in the same “stuck”state.

We are actively investigating this situation to uncover what the issue may be. While we are investigating, please do open Feedback Hub and upvote the existing feedback related to this issue. This will help us assess the scope of the issue and it will also share additional logs to us that will assist with uncovering the issue.

As soon as we have any workaround steps or feedback, we’ll post them here. Stay tuned for additional updates.

Thank you as always!
Jason”

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Hmmm, Think you’re right after all. 15014 has disappeared from wushowhide and my 15007 now says it’s up to date.

Another MS misstep.

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It’s entirely possible that 15014 has been pulled, in anticipation of the new build due on Friday.

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@Woody & Y’all,

This is solved for me in Build 15019.1000.

I might have been because of a corrupt Image that I had, I do not know…..

Thanks Again,

Crysta

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