Playing/Recording Music on Windows systems

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Hello again, Colleagues All,
I have made several posts on MS Office topics (which I do know something about) but now I have a general problem on Windows operation (which I know quite a bit less about) and would appreciate any assistance offered.

First, the system. The platform is an IBM Thinkpad, model 2366. My son gave me a Fission USB turntable (model E-E030) for Father’s day, so that I could record my hundreds of LPs onto CD. To facilitate the operation, I bought a pair of Logitech S-00035 loudspeakers. I connect the USB cable from the turntable into the USB slot on the Thinkpad and plug the loudspeaker cable into the earphones socket. There is a built-in DVD/CD-Rom player (Mat-su-shi-ta SR-1877). The set up is to use USB-Codec for input and output.

The recording software is Audacity. This seems to my untutored eye quite a usual product as it records an entire disk end-to-end, but includes editing features that allow you to snip off individual tracks and save them separately.

When I play and LP, I can hear very faintly some musical sort of noise coming from the playing arm. I can also see the signal in the Audacity screen. However, I do not get any sound through the loudspeakers either directly or with the Audacity sound monitor turned on. I have also tried to use Windows Media Player to play audio CDs, but again nothing is audible.

What is the missing piece in the puzzle, please (or alternatively what might be broken in my laptop and I how do I test for it) ?

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If you are plugging the speaker cable into the earphone jack that may well be the issue. If ther is another, similar jack, either next to the earphone jack or located elsewhere on the case, that is probably the sound output jack. try it, but be certain the volume is turned down and then increase it after the music starts.

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When I play an LP, I can hear very faintly some musical sort of noise coming from the playing arm. I can also see the signal in the Audacity screen. However, I do not get any sound through the loudspeakers either directly or with the Audacity sound monitor turned on. I have also tried to use Windows Media Player to play audio CDs, but again nothing is audible.

What is the missing piece in the puzzle, please (or alternatively what might be broken in my laptop and I how do I test for it) ?

Unfortunately, I’ve not got any experience of the USB-Codec, so this may be a more generic response than you’re looking for.

Have you checked the
– speakers by plugging them into an MP3 player to check they work?
– the socket on the laptop by plugging in an ordinary pair of headphones?

Congratulations on getting the signal onto Audacity, by the way – that means that at the very least you should be able to record the track and save it in it’s entirety as a single MP3 track (assuming you have been provided with something like the lame.dll encoder for mp3), so you can load the album onto an mp3 player. I believe there is also software that will try to split the mp3 album into separate tracks that you might find useful.

As for why there’s no sound, do you get the usual system sounds? If not, it may be that the sound is muted on the laptop, or it may be muted in the mixer – double click on the ‘speaker’ icon in the taskbar and see what levels the various components are set to.

What’s your OS?

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Thanks for your inputs friends. I have managed to narrow the problem down a little bit. The speakers work. I tested them by playing a CD, though the volume levels weren’t great – probably an attribute of the sound card. Unfortunately, the turntable is not a great success playing through my music system, but this probably due to the 15-year gap in their ages. There is no line input on the music system, only an AV one. However, this is not a huge problem as the turntable was acquired to record all my old LPs onto CD. So, the problem appears to have reduced to getting some bit of hardware/software in the computer to connect the USB input to the USB output, either directly, or via the sound monitor in the Audacity application.
Actually GFamily, the Audacity stuff is better than you might think. It does indeed record the entire LP into a single ‘Project’ file. However, you can play back the project file and provided that you made notes about the elapsed time to the beginning and end of each track, you can mark start and pause points and record the signal between them into a separate file. I am not sure whether when you start the CD with all of the single files in it, it will behave like a normal CD, playing through them all, or advancing stepwise when selecting. Whatever, it’s the music that’s the thing isn’t it .

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Hello again, colleagues all,

Things have progressed a little with the assistance of my son (who works for CSC and is lead support for a client who is one of the world’s biggest mining companies) we have managed to get it going. However, we have struck a new problem which someone out there may be able to help me with.
The way Audacity works, it records the entire audio stream into what it calls a project file. You can play this back and listen to the entire record without regard to the tracks. If, while you are recording the music, you note the elapsed times between tracks, you can start and pause the project playback at points which you know are between tracks. You can also pick it up on the oscilloscope graphic, but this is slightly less accurate. You can then output the material between the check points into the sound file of your choice; WAV, MP3 or whatever.
We have done this for quite a few tracks, but Windows Media Player (which my son is not rapt in) won’t play it back. Could any of you knowledgeable people out there recommend any other MP3 software. In particular, I am interested in a program that will allow treble/bass adjustment, as some of my test pieces have come out a little shriller than I remember them being originally.

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Hello again, colleagues all,

Things have progressed a little with the assistance of my son (who works for CSC and is lead support for a client who is one of the world’s biggest mining companies) we have managed to get it going. However, we have struck a new problem which someone out there may be able to help me with.
The way Audacity works, it records the entire audio stream into what it calls a project file. You can play this back and listen to the entire record without regard to the tracks. If, while you are recording the music, you note the elapsed times between tracks, you can start and pause the project playback at points which you know are between tracks. You can also pick it up on the oscilloscope graphic, but this is slightly less accurate. You can then output the material between the check points into the sound file of your choice; WAV, MP or whatever.
We have done this for quite a few tracks, but Windows Media Player (which my son is not rapt in) won’t play it back. Could any of you knowledgeable people out there recommend any other MP3 software. In particular, I am interested in a program that will allow treble/bass adjustment, as some of my test pieces have come out a little shriller than I remember them being originally.

What you need is a wave editor, there are many variations on the web, A search on “wave editor” makes it interesting.
I learned on Steinbergs CLEAN which came with WaveLab Lite, WaveLab is available (and expensive) but Clean has been discontinued.
Another good product is http://www.nch.com.au/wavepad/ called WavePad. The collection from AVS http://www.avs4you.com/audio.aspx is worthwhile.
I have a variety on my system as each problem arises I find a new product that soles that problem.
The original Sound Blaster cards SB16, SB32 etc all came with wave editors.
Like yourself I am converting all my LP’s Cassettes to CD and am more than satisfied with the results. Have a look at my bio, I am at Ringwood East, and will accept e-mails.
Sorry for the mess, I had trouble getting the URL’s to be active.

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… Could any of you knowledgeable people out there recommend any other MP3 software. In particular, I am interested in a program that will allow treble/bass adjustment, as some of my test pieces have come out a little shriller than I remember them being originally.

You could try iCoolPlayer v1.0.2.0[/url], which has a lot of enhanced playback features and is ware. Can play Audio: mp3. ogg wav, aiff, wma, aac, ac3, alac, ape, mac, mpc, ofr, spx, tta, cda, midi, flac

Alan

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Jim,

You are working with your project files and then you need to export your output file (the one that you have ‘split off’) into either .mp3 or .wav file.

Johanna

ps I agree, Audacity is fabulous

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I moved this thread to Other Applications because it is not a Windows issue per se.

Joe

--Joe

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This may turn out to be a duplicate message, because I lost my connection half-way through writing a response. Many thanks to you all for the excellent advice. I apologise for the delay. Although retired I still look after some databse stuff for old clients. My original reply included a rant on the horrors of looking after a 1997 Access database recently updated to Access 2003, but I will spare you that if this is indeed second time around. I particularly appreciated the response from E_OGrady who lives in my neck of the woods and HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL ! Also, thanks to AlanMillar who obviously really understands the attraction of freeware and to Johbot, who came up with one of those little points that are often overlooked, but may be so important. I am sooo looking forward to resurrecting the Kingston Trio, Earth, Wind and Fire and The Band, to name but a few excitements from my (relative) youth.

Jim W.

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Sorry if this is a dupe but my first reply on this new bulletin board seems to have vanished.

I’d second the wave editor recomendation. I use an app called Wave Corrector. It saves the turntable’s output as a wave file, that is uncompressed, around 100 Mb for a 40 min record. The application can then process the wave file. It can automatically (and manually) remove the pops and clicks from the vinyl; filter hiss and rumble; automatically (or manually) file track boundaries; normalise levels; etc. It can then output to various other file formats such as the compressed MP3 format (around 40 Mb per LP). (You will need to add a freeware addin to get MP3 output).

HTH

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Sorry if this is a dupe but my first reply on this new bulletin board seems to have vanished.

I’d second the wave editor recomendation. I use an app called Wave Corrector. It saves the turntable’s output as a wave file, that is uncompressed, around 100 Mb for a 40 min record. The application can then process the wave file. It can automatically (and manually) remove the pops and clicks from the vinyl; filter hiss and rumble; automatically (or manually) file track boundaries; normalise levels; etc. It can then output to various other file formats such as the compressed MP3 format (around 40 Mb per LP). (You will need to add a freeware addin to get MP3 output).

HTH

To add a little more on the subject, there is a difference between wave and wav
Certainly the program Wave Corrector can save in the wav format. However the difference is that an LP playing say 5 tracks gives only one wav file, that file needs to be cleaned etc but it is still one file, one track of five songs. It then needs to be cut into segments.
That is where the Wave program comes into play, you can manually change the start to (my preference) 1 sec. Then track to the end of the song and allow 1 sec after, It is then simply a task of highlighting, cutting and pasting that song into a new wav file and starting to attack song 2. For security of the data I copy the original recorded five song wav file to a stick, that allows me to make a mistake or two.
A search on the words how to use a wave editor showed enough hits to make it interesting.
A look at http://www.fleximusic.com/waveditor/overview.htm shows some screen captures.
Yes a wave editor does, or can do a lot more than cut a file into segments. word processors do a lot more than enable to user to type a thank you note.

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To add a little more on the subject, there is a difference between wave and wav
Certainly the program Wave Corrector can save in the wav format. However the difference is that an LP playing say 5 tracks gives only one wav file, that file needs to be cleaned etc but it is still one file, one track of five songs. It then needs to be cut into segments.

A user is always going to be an advocate for their particular program and this is why I recommend WaveCor.

It is specifically designed by an audio engineer for the purpose of converting vinyl to digital. So while it can cut the WAV file into separate tracks etc like other wave editors such as Fleximusic it has the wherewithal to get rid of all pops and clicks. The screen shot below shows a wave file that has been cut into 6 tracks (the bottom part of the screen). The main window show the correction for a rather large click.

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I agree, I personally use Steinberg Clean (as mentioned in a earlier post in this thread, unfortunately it is no longer available. Part of that package is a produce called WaveLab Lite. The point I was trying to make is the necessity of using a Wave Editor. Most people who try to achieve LP to CD fall into the trap of having one track. My problem is it is very time consuming.
The process can be broken into 4 simple steps
1. Record
2. Clean
3. Cut into tracks. (I manually do this because the automatic break can be sloppy)
4. Burn to Cd

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For some years, I have been using Audacity – both with an IBM Thinkpad and with other hardware – both to record and as a WAV editor.

Instead of using the Audacity Project files, each recording is simply saved as a WAV file. (Hopefully, hard disk space is not an issue for you.)

The WAV file clearly shows where tracks end and begin, so trying to time the music as it is being recorded ceases to be an issue. With the zoom feature in the Audacity editor, you can get as “clean” an edit as you like. You should also get a good playback of the file as you edit it.

I do recommend that you cut your files according to “frame” boundaries. There are 75 frames to a second, and I attach a zipped frames.html file which can be used as a reference in your browser.

HTH

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Wow, the great advice just keeps on coming ! Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

I am going to download each of the recommended applications and give them all a try, because I suspect that in cases like this, personal tastes may be influential in deciding upon the most suitable application to live with.

If I note anything that is spectacularly good/bad or which could significantly influence ones choice of application, I will report back (and of course, I will keep an eye on the thread, so that I do not miss out on any other useful advice that rolls in).

Jim.

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A happy and propserous 2010, colleagues all,

Referring back to previous posts on this thread, I have downloaded the suite of audio AVS products, including the Recorder, the Editor, the Converter and the Disc Creator (the free version). I am also trialling the Fleximusic wave editor (free to try – $20US to buy, so it won’t break the bank), WavePad Sound Editor and a few other items. The AVS stuff is probably the most “professional”, though I am very taken with the myriad of button controls and the status bar descriptions in the Flexmusic product. However, I have one problem before I can really get on and that is getting to play the files audibly either during recording (Audacity) or editing (the other products). My input from the turntable is via USB port and presumably uses the USB codec, while the output (to Logitech stereo speakers) presumably uses the Intel Integrated Audio codec. I know that Audacity is receiving the signal becaise i can see the waveform and record it. I can play around with the file using the other products. My problem is that at no point can I set it up so that I can hear the music while I am saving or editing.

Windows tells me that all of my audio gear is working properly, but what I wonder is – is only one codec operating at a time or do they both work together depending upon the gear attached to them ? I thought the the Audacity monitor might be an audible one, but reading from the manual, it would appear that it is only another visual aid. I am sorry to appear a bit dense on Windows topics, but I left my OS in-depth involvement sometime back in the days of the Z80 and the PDP-11 chips to concentrate on database stuff. If anyone can give me a quick lecture on the connectivity of the audio equipment in Windows XP, I will be so grateful.

Jim

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It’s possible that you already are aware of this, but I was advised by a techie friend that Audacity requires a separate LAME encoder file to work with MP3s. LAME MP3 Encoder Follow the instructions for All Users and install the Lame Encoder. Download the lame_enc.dll in a location that won’t be disturbed. Audacity must use the file each time you save a recording.

Go to Control Panel > Sounds and Audio Devices > Volume > Advanced. In the Master Volume window make sure all your Volume Controls are set about half way and nothing is Muted.

Open Audacity and go to Edit > Preferences > Audio I/O. Under Playback and Recording you should have at least a couple of choices. You may have to change one or both to get Audacity to record. Also, under Recording select 2(Stereo). In the middle top of Audacity in the drop down select Stereo Mix.

Just to test, play some music or get a stream going. If Audacity is correctly configured you should be able to record what you hear from your speakers.

When finished go to File > Export as MP3 and save to the location of your choice.

Hopefully this will work for you. My MP3s can now play thru WMP so this is great. Just another thing for you to consider. I used these instructions on XP.

Hey Jude

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A happy and propserous 2010, colleagues all,

I know that Audacity is receiving the signal becaise i can see the waveform and record it. I can play around with the file using the other products. My problem is that at no point can I set it up so that I can hear the music while I am saving or editing.

Jim

Try the suggestions Hey Jude made. Click here for a screen shot.

JB

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A happy and propserous 2010, colleagues all,

My problem is that at no point can I set it up so that I can hear the music while I am saving or editing.

Jim

Jim

Is it as simple as not having the sound turned on? (Double clicking on the speaker icon in the system tray)

Keith

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This is what I have a stereo system for, it does not interfere with my computer!

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

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Hello again, Colleagues All,

Apologies for the delay in responding to the advice from Kiwi Keith and June Bug, but living in a resort area as we do, our place tends to become the focus for family get-togethers of various kinds. As well as Christmas and New Year, the fact that most of us are Aquarians and Capricornians tended to stretch the social diary to bursting point.

First, to Kiwi Keith. If only it had been as simple as a mute setting ! However, your remark did direct me to the Sound and Audio Properties utility and I checked the hardware list. Only my DVD player (the one with the rude word in its name !), the Intel 82801CA Audio Controller and the USB Audio Device had known addresses. Is this significant ?

In reply to June Bug, here are the settings in my Audacity preferences.

Playback Device: Microsoft Sound Mapper – Output
Recording Device: USB Audio Codec
Channels: 2 (stereo).

One interesting thing is the the Mic combo box was greyed out and therefore could not be set to Stereo mix as suggested.

We know that the turntable output is getting into the computer, because Audacity will process it. We know that the output is working, because i can play a regular CD through my speakers. The only problem seems to be connecting this particular input to the output.

I hope I can sort this out soon as I can already hear the sirens in the distance and I have seen the little men in white coats hiding out in the woodland round our home, coming to take me away, ha, ha !

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