• Patch Lady – is tech the right gift?

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    #241095

    First off an apology:  I had a series of 12 days of Christmas posts all planned and then I caught a head cold that went into a cough and never got bac
    [See the full post at: Patch Lady – is tech the right gift?]

    Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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    • #241111

      You caught a head cold that went into a cough: ==>>

      come over and we can cough in stereo  🙂  ,  whish you get better soon.

      * _ ... _ *
    • #241112

      Please consider going low-technology while you are ill. Prop your feet up, get a blankie, a pillow, something warm to drink. Sit on the couch wrapped in your blankie and with your pillow and snooze.

      On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
      offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
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      online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender
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    • #241117
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    • #241115

      Ultimately we as consumers only have one decision to make when it comes to privacy related to the use of technology: Do we accept that <insert device here> is collecting data about us and our usage of the device. The answer is either yes or no.

      After we decide to use a data collecting device, we may have options that we can use to proactively manage the data that is collected, but there are no guarantees that our wishes will be respected, our data will not be compromised by bad actors, or that data will ever be deleted as promised.

      So really, the only decision we have to make is whether or not to turn any particular device on. After that, there are no guarantees.

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    • #241130

      I see offering such a device to someone akin to insisting on someone to dance when it is not their cup of tea, because you have so much fun doing it and you would like to share this feeling with others that are just sitting on the side and “missing” all the fun.

      I’m always afraid someone will offer me such a present because I am a tech guy so I must love those things. It is good advice to let people choose their level of comfort with privacy sensitive devices.

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    • #241138

      But it honestly doesn’t listen ALL THE TIME. There is a wake word that one has to use to “wake it up” to make it listen to take actions. You can actually look at what Alexa listened to. It’s not listening all the time. But if you aren’t comfortable with what it does do, I can’t make you comfortable with that. You need to accept the risk, not me.

      How do you know when it is listening? Can you really trust the assurances that Amazon gives you? And can you trust that no one else has taken control of the device and is listening in? In reality, you just don’t know. If you don’t want to risk being listened to without your knowledge or consent, then don’t get one of these devices.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server
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    • #241152

      Tech should be chosen by the user to suit his or her own needs, after some research or at least discussion with someone who can help.  The casual acquisition of tech toys, only to end up enslaved to them, is a serious problem in our world today.  Some couples and friends are close enough, and possess sufficiently comparable knowledge, to buy the right tech stuff for each other, but how common is that?  Less carefully chosen tech stuff will end up being more clutter.  I try to discourage those around me from adding to it.  Food and drink?  Yes.  The pleasure of your company?  Yes.  More stuff?  No thanks.

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    • #241154

      Also, lets not forget Bluetrix excellent advice: “Gimme Cash” and let the recipient choose whatever they like. Otherwise, Capt Morgan’s Spiced Rum is a good alternative. 🙂

      https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/gimme-cash-capt-morgans-spiced-rum-and-bah-humbug/

      edit: Spiced Rum and Chicken Soup – the ultimate cure for colds, works for me …

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    • #241164

      It is not only your privacy that you should be concerned about when you purchase new technology devices as a gift for someone else. Security should be an even higher priority. In fact, the article does not mention security at all. Please do not conflate security with privacy. Accept or tolerate privacy intrusions – it is a decision some choose to make. The risk is definitely theirs to take. Security is a whole different ball game.

      The majority of 2018 WiFi connected devices (small appliances, toys, convenience gadgets) have minimal to no security built into them at all. Most are hack-able by cheap and easily obtained online apps. It is highly likely that the tech Christmas gift will be internet facing so when the unit is turned on for the first time, it probably has auto discovery (it will try to connect to the household WiFi). The user has just implicitly accepted all the risks associated with it being physically connected. Router configuration must follow, but if the device has no security functions it should not be on the household network, period. If it will not operate without internet connectivity, return it (ask for the receipt from the gift giver). It it does not matter if the manufacturer has the best privacy policy on the planet if the device is insecure.

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    • #241181

      Patch Lady, you misunderstand the anxiety because people use words differently. So I pose the question, how does Alexa recognize the wake word if the microphone is not active at all times that you might say the wake word?

      You would be correct to say that the device does not record for future reference all sounds, all the time. But in order to function as designed, the microphone is active, waiting to “hear” the wake word. This condition is labeled “listening” by many people.

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      • #241210

        Actually the problem is not whether Alexa is “listening”, which it must do continuously, but whether it is “transmitting” as well. Or recording now, for a later transmission. I doubt that such is the case, because it would truly qualify as an invasion of privacy of a particularly nasty kind. The kind that brings some serious lawsuits.

        I understand that one should not give something for important and frequent personal use, such as a cell phone, or some other technology device, as a gift without having some very good idea that is something the intended person would like to have. But, once that the ground work has been done and the appropriateness of the gift is ensured, I would add that giving someone a PC as a gift can be a very good and useful thing to do. Let’s not forget that PCs are also “tech.”

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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        • #241223

          Yes, I chose to write recording in reference to Patch Lady’s advice to review for yourself

          You can actually look at what Alexa listened to. It’s not listening all the time.

          which as you correctly state, the sound file must first be transmitted before it could be reviewed by the user through a weblink. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GPGRYRZ494GDFPZ2

          Since we are vesting a tabletop device with human attributes, I was trying to contrast a person overhearing you against a stenographer transcribing what they hear. I consider both examples to be listening. Either might be spying, but only one keeps the evidence. I would now add this system is working at the speed of modern computing. What I mean here is that very much more may be transmitted, then deleted as not necessary, long before a user consults the saved files. This is obviously necessary, routine, ongoing, constant activity to reduce the volume of saved data from thousands of units, all live, all the time.

          Really, I only wrote to help bridge a gap in communication. It may be that Patch Lady has never considered a live mic to be a listening device. It may be she disregards that fact as a privacy intrusion.

    • #241425

      Anyone who is not prepared to grant Amazon a certain amount of trust probably shouldn’t plug in an Alexa device. Same applies to google devices, which I personally feel are more prone to privacy stretches based on Google’s past foibles and their immense data grabbing capabilities – which is after all Googles business plan where as Amazon portends to be primarily a retailer and content provider.

      If you have such a device, you can with a bit of patience and some degree of learning (I know learning new stuff is hard) examine what these devices are sending home and elsewhere. Install Wireshark (or similar packet sniffer) and point the software directly at the device’s IP address on your home network.

      I think that was called – trust but with verification.

      Many people already to this type of packet inspection for fun and profit. If there was something nefarious going on, we’d hear about in short order

      Edit for HTML.

    • #241531

      Amazon Sends 1,700 Alexa Voice Recordings to a Random Person

      https://threatpost.com/amazon-1700-alexa-voice-recordings/140201/

      The shocking part of the story is how quickly the investigative reporters were able to identify the victim…

      The recording of Alexa interactions (and the practice of keeping them in the cloud) is necessary to improve the platform over time, according to Amazon; the company also allows users to review and delete voice recordings, according to its data privacy FAQ…

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      • #241625

        I really have to wonder about this: I do not have one of those Alexa-type gadgets and do not feel like I’m missing anything. Perhaps  I am deficient in some way nobody has ever pointed out to me, at least not yet?

        So, would someone be so kind as to let me know what is the problem/defect of character causing me not to feel a need to use Alexa — and what are all the things I am missing out by not using Alexa? Thanks for helping me improve myself.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #241634

          I do not think freedom of choice is a character defect on either side of this subject. You do not have a need or even a want for an item, it is not required to have it. Others find these devices useful. And that is reason enough to have one.

          • #241679

            Anonymous #241634 wrote:

            Others find these devices useful. And that is reason enough to have one.

            That is just what I was trying to ask: find them useful enough, how, exactly?

            I would really like to know, as I cannot think of such a sufficient reason — one with no practical alternatives ready at hand — for having Alexa. I might guess that someone with severe physical disabilities may find it makes life easier, but how about people in reasonably good health? Any one?

            Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

            MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
            Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
            macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

            • #241687

              Apologies, you had commented before in a way that made me think you had seen advertisements or read articles on these assistants before. At risk of looking like an advertisement: alarm clock, weather report, headlines, egg timer, intercom (both local within the home and grouped across internet), to do list, shopping list, task scheduler, calendar reminders, joke recitation, dictionary definitions, encyclopedia entries, additional hardware allows for home automation with special lighting effects. Apparently it will also interact with your pet bird.

              But either Google or Amazon would dazzle you with better marketing if you looked there for more information. They employ advertising professionals and I don’t want to steal their work. As another anonymous posted above, those who are not fond of these corporations past exploits are not likely to be interested in these devices.

              I misread your first post as a back handed dig at those who did not share your self-described deficiency. I have often found self-deprecating introductions insincere while setting a baseline for rhetoric. Since you present a second time in earnest, I hope this was more helpful. I will not insult you with links to Google or Amazon, they are easy to find and hard to avoid.

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            • #241691

              Thanks. As I see it, your answer points at the heart of the argument of what is useful and what is merely convenient. The things you mention I also do, often, without giving them a second thought, although perhaps would be more convenient to use something like Alexa for some of them.

              But I wonder just how more convenient: Alexa is only a connecting device to a powerful supercomputer made of interconnected servers. So is the Google search engine my PC connects to through a browser. And that search engine, when I look for the sort of things I want to find out tends to work as follows: On Monday, my search was made using “Hessian tensor gravitation gradiometer” as keywords, because I am doing a feasibility study of a pilot mission to fly a new type of instrument in a spacecraft and am searching for relevant literature. And I got, as it often happens, endless pages of links to company sites selling gadgets of all descriptions, or blogs about the German State of Hessen, or about the Hessian soldiers in the British Colonial Army defeated and captured one Christmas Day by Washington after crossing the Delaware River, etc., etc. After trying a number of times with different combinations of words, and having selected “site:.edu” without any better luck, I got a notice from Google that they had detected “some unusual activity” and wanted me to prove to them “that I was not a robot” by clicking on pictures of street crossings. I have been in the “googling”game for nearly two decades, so really doubt that Alexa would be much better than I was at finding what I was after, seeing that it is a first cousin of the supercomputer used to do searches at Google, and probably it would have used Google to do the same search, had I asked it to do it for me. Not to leave the tale unfinished: in the end, and after proving to Google that I was not a robot for the third time, I finally found what I was after.

              Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

              MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
              Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
              macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

            • #241696

              See, I did not really believe you when you claimed a deficiency. Glad you blew that away describing your research. Right tool for the job. Tack hammer or jackhammer. Toaster or flamethrower. Billiard table or Large Hadron Collider. Entertainment device or research tool. Virtual assistants will play your music, mounting an opera may require additional effort. That does not make it a useless device. People who enjoy the use of these devices like them. Good for them.

              For the experience you shared, I regret I am not in the field. Could there be a more specific starting point for your searches? Google’s front page may be a little too generally oriented in order to serve a wider audience. I would skip AskYahoo as well. If MIT, JPL, USAF, or other institutions do not offer search suggestions maybe the Library of Congress could direct to a better resource. There may also be international repositories that I am not creative enough to consider.

    • #241662

      where as Amazon portends to be primarily a retailer and content provider.

      Don’t you mean PRETEND? With Amazon webservices in everything and vying for the DoD cloud contract, they are far more than a retailer. They saved my card info even when I ticked do not save!

    • #241876

      I completely used the wrong word. I was attempting to state that Amazon describes themselves as being primarily a retailer.

      As with many large businesses with multiple divisions each with a different focus, I have to trust Amazon to keep Alexa separate from any DOD work. The user agreement for the device says nothing about someday being able to offer services at a level equal to WOPR asking, “Shall we play a game?”

    • #242949

      TLDR: And I’m lazy to get out the hand vacuum.

      And regarding listening to music, I’m still in the old paradigm of files and folders (of course, backed up). Totally under my local control.

    • #242958

      My daughter gave my wife a Beats bluetooth wireless earbuds. Cost was $89. Superb sound quality, and it works extremely well. Everything about this device is top quality, including the appearance. This particular tech gift was a home run.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server
    • #243006

      Patch Lady, you misunderstand the anxiety because people use words differently. So I pose the question, how does Alexa recognize the wake word if the microphone is not active at all times that you might say the wake word?

      You would be correct to say that the device does not record for future reference all sounds, all the time. But in order to function as designed, the microphone is active, waiting to “hear” the wake word. This condition is labeled “listening” by many people.

      And does that by necessity mean it ALL goes thru the cloud??

      Disclaimer Just got a Echo Dot for XMass

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
      • #243022

        I’m the same anonymous#post-241181. I will not pretend to know how either of the competing assistants work deep in the nitty gritty. My quick answer is NO, not everything; but you are not in charge of deciding what stays local and what goes out. I consider it as a thought experiment, starting with easy interactions that return a successful result.

        Ask “What time is it?” in a clear voice. There should be an immediate response. The onboard voice interpreter understood your request. The information required is one of the most basic of all computer functions, and is located locally without need to reference the World Wide Web.

        Similarly, many basic functions exist locally. Any timer function, including alerts and alarms, are straightforward (time2 – time1 = time elapsed, sound audiofile) calculations done by wristwatches more than forty years ago. Creating and sorting lists is also simple. Any content that is created at the local level can remain there, unless some form of syncing function is selected for related devices you own. I would assume most sync functions use a cloud interaction for consistency rather than relying on a possibly incomplete process within your local router environment.

        Staying with the concept that you are speaking clearly using terms that exist within the local unit’s vocabulary, but now you are requesting information that is not available to the local database. “What is the temperature outside?”, weather forecast, traffic conditions, showtimes, local headlines, any topical item, and many esoteric articles would all require accessing the WWW to retrieve up to the moment revisions to satisfy your wants.

        All audio input creates an audiofile for the CPU to analyze and act upon. Local files take memory space, completed actions render reference files redundant. Space is recovered by a continual memory management, deleting unneeded files.

        So far, so good. The friendly genie is doing everything it should, without a single suspicious transmission to concern us. But what if you have a speech impediment? This scenario was explored for comedic effect by the character Kripke on the sitcom The Big Bang Theory. Or environmental noise prevents clear audio input. Or you have made a reasonable request that stumps the onboard system. When the genie gives bad responses too often, the unit gets a poor rating, sales fall, and bought units end up landfill.

        Enter the supercomputer AI function. Unsuccessful interactions are forwarded for interpretation by the genie’s big brother in the cloud. When successful, you still get the response you wanted, only slightly delayed by transmission and analysis lag time. AI may keep the useful portion of the audiofile in it’s database to assist with other interpretations in the future. Any remaining unfulfilled requests need their audiofiles to be saved in their entirety until the mysterious AI algorithm decides it has no use.

        There are also those scenarios where you specifically request cloud connection to phone a friend and similar communication functions. Now you may be a thoughtful, law abiding citizen in good standing. But not everyone is. It is a lawful burden on these communication providers to prohibit some forms of content. The only way to censor prohibited content is to analyze all content, and pass through that content deemed safe. Additionally, these systems also respond to any voice saying “call 9-1-1”. A very useful feature, possibly life-saving. But it also requires all audio content to be continuously monitored for the key phrase.

        All of the above activity is still within the usual definition of “helpful assistant”. However some of the actions taken in the course of being helpful can also be viewed as nosy or intrusive when you stop to think how the action is executed. If the assistant were a hired employee, the intrinsic trust required would be obvious and you would have strict criteria for the person you invite to live in your home and share your life experience. A small roundish object with a pretty voice and flashing lights does not receive the same scrutiny. A human assistant will eventually forget most small details. Cloud based silicon will keep it forever, until programmed to delete or lost in a crash scenario.

        Maintenance is an ongoing process for our hightech devices. Cloud assistants seem to be maintenance free. If you use these devices I would suggest you review all cloud stored information you are allowed to access, on a regular schedule. Just as you do periodic backups of your local systems, you should check what your genie is saving in your name.

        The device is not evil. The cloud memory is potentially forever. Bad people can find a way to access that memory. They will not have much use for Aunt Betty’s coffeecake recipe. But if there is information that can be used to turn a profit, bad people will.

    • #243009

      Anonymous #241634 wrote:

      Others find these devices useful. And that is reason enough to have one.

      That is just what I was trying to ask: find them useful enough, how, exactly?

      I would really like to know, as I cannot think of such a sufficient reason — one with no practical alternatives ready at hand — for having Alexa. I might guess that someone with severe physical disabilities may find it makes life easier, but how about people in reasonably good health? Any one?

      Like new bling or new brand name sneakers. Maybe you are just not up to snuff..
      😉

      🍻

      Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
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