Patch Lady – 31 days of paranoia – day 4

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Day 4 of our 31 days of paranoia – and today’s topic is Backup.  Which, once again is timely due to the reports of lost data during the upgrade to Win
[See the full post at: Patch Lady – 31 days of paranoia – day 4]

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Elly, deuce120, PhotM, SueW, WildBill

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Back in the DOS days I purchased a “new” hard drive from a former employer. He had simply removed the drive out of the computer I was using while I worked there, reformatted it, and deleted the partition. I was suspicious, so I got some data recovery software, restored the partition, and unformatted the drive. Lo and behold, all of my files showed up! I brought it to him and he gave me an actual new drive to replace the used one he had sold me.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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WildBill

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I have seen reference to the Rule of Three: Onsite backup, offsite physical backup (e.g., swap between home and work or put in a safe deposit box), and online backup.

The fourth rule is that the cloud is just someone else’s computer, and is subject to being hacked or having the data mined and sold.

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wdburt1,

Totally agree. I do back up at home everything that is mine on the hard disk to external drives, and save the current version of the programs I am developing in (a) my computer, (b) in those back up external drivers and (c) in a government system, as the software is developed, currently, for analyzing science data from the government projects I’m involved with. I am most particular about the software, because it is a lot of work to develop, test, debug and document it and would be really, really sad to see it evaporate away into the ether some ill-starred day.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I always do a full image of the drive, each time. I use Terabyte’s IFD (Image for DOS-yeah, that’s right, but don’t let the moniker fool you.)

It’s written in very tight code, and it’s Terabytes OS, not a true DOS.  My old IT Guru, (before he lost all his hair, retired and went to Tuva to live in a Yurt) always used to say, “You can’t back up Windows from INSIDE windows!”

So I tried it, and it’s proven remarkably resilient.  Cheap, too.

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com

Also comes with a tool for viewing and restoring individual files one at a time. You can choose three levels of verification: none (quick and dirty for those times when you’ve little time at all) “verified” and “verified byte-by-byte”.  The last one takes forever, but there are overnight switches for auto shutdown and writing the log of the backup to wherever you want.

Once in a while I will do a master backup/image on optical media and put it all in a  safe deposit box.

DON’T make the mistake of putting any magnetic media in a safe deposit vault! That one killed me once! Afterwards the bank allowed me to measure the magnetic field around and in the vault…it was weak, but it was strong enough to do damage! Optical media is fine.

As I travel a bit, I use two discrete backup drives with one backup on each, rotate them, and make sure that when I travel a short hop less than one day, one is always with me. They’re ruggedized WD laptop drives in shock resistant aluminum cases made by Vantec. (http://www.vantecusa.com/products.php?pc_id=1)

Backups are tested on a monthly basis by sampling/restoring sections from each partition of the machine’s HDD that was backed up.

I think that’s obsessive-compulsive enough.  I got bitten by a corrupted backup tape (see above) once, never again. 

Here’s a fun site for The Master’s Basics of Backup:

http://www.taobackup.com/

Cheers,

Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
--
"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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All my backups are on external hard drives, even the backups are backed up. Anyone who uses the “cloud” for backups is, in my opinion, sharing with the whole world, or whoever is smart enough to hack it. If you backup to the cloud and haven’t been hacked, it just a matter of time. I may be wrong, but I don’t think so. The cloud is a part of the internet and not much, if anything, on the net is private.

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Cloud storage and any hardware in general that is physically connected to the web or any other form of remote access , should contain no data that you would mind to write on a tourist’s photo postcard to report home how nice your holiday is.

Back in the older Windows days – pre-W10 – I used to do complete image backups and then store the external HD physiclaly disconnected. In this case as well as with selective data backups, keep in mind that if you fall victim not to data “loss” but to data corruption – your rig got hacked and infested and is compromised (and remains to be so until you overkill and reformat and reinstall) – you ma ynot be able to sopecify at what time the attack actgually took place. If you reionstall from an image or backup, this backup/image maybe already is infested, too. So use the oldest available backup you can afford – not the latest, as many people immediately would do.

Cloud storage to me is no option for serious data. I consider it to be a toy only. Toys are for harmlessly playing around with, not for being taken seriously. And even then this can be a danger: if you fetch an infestation with something due to harmless data you load back from the cloud for s hamrless urpose, and this infesting stuff then goes after the serious data on your hardware that you have never stored online at all.- As a private user, I would simply stay away from cloud storage. And as a businessman I would shoot my employees if they use cloud storage.

General rule: the less interaction with the world-wide web, the less opportunity for harm striking you. The more comfortable your surfing and computing is, the more you are at risk via option settings that serve as wide open windows and door into your home. Keep it shut.

Marc

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Wheel_D

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Patch Lady Susan wrote:

Unless you’ve written over the top of the very spot on the hard drive, that data isn’t lost.

Be aware that this is probably only true if you are talking about an actual platter-spinning hard drive.  If it is an SSD and the OS has issued a TRIM command after the deletion, the data is probably really and truly gone.

As for my backup regime, I have a PC on my LAN that I refer to as my backup server.  It has something like 11 TB worth of storage in it.  Most of the time it sits and sleeps, but as soon as any PC on the lan attempts to access its shares, it wakes up and does its thing.  That’s where my main backups go… on different drives within that backup server so that if one fails, I still have the redundant backup on the other drives.  I use either Aomei Backupper or Macrium Reflect from a USB bootable stick to do the full backup of both the Linux and Windows volumes (though I have not used the Windows ones in so long that the existing backups are up to date even at several months old).

If the backup server suffers from a PSU failure (it has a high quality Seasonic PSU in it, but it could still happen) or some other thing that takes out all the hard drives in there at once, I also have external HDDs with backups on them.  I only plug these in while they are in use; otherwise, they sit in a fire-resistant box.

I do not yet have any offsite backup.  I have no problem with cloud-based backups so long as I am confident that the data is well-encrypted before upload, but my uplink is so slow that any given backup would be obsolete before it even finished uploading to the remote server.  I have the fastest internet available in my area, and it’s still not fast enough for any meaningful cloud backup.

I have thought that I can make a reference backup (a full image) on a given HDD, then copy that HD (clone it) and UPS it to someone to keep safe offsite.  I could then use the identical image I have locally to be the reference for incremental images, which will be small enough perhaps to upload somewhere.  If disaster strikes and I need the original image to make sense of the incrementals, the HDD I shipped off could be sent back.  Question is, where would I send it where I can be sure of its safety while it is out of my custody?

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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woody, Noel Carboni

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Also see my suggestions here:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/win10-version-1809-buglog-including-troubling-tales-of-lost-user-data/#post-221866

Restoring deleted files on an SSD is a particularly vile problem.

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Hey Y’all,

Paranoid? I’ll take that cake!

Here’s a screen shot of the spreadsheet I use to keep track of my backups.

I have a scheduled task that alerts me every 2 weeks to do my backups and now have one that fires off a PowerShell  script every morning to see if my last Macrium Reflect Image is more than 2 weeks old and throws up a nag screen if it is and this is on each machine.

And yes I rotate one of the disks to a friends house on a regular basis.

I screw up my machines fiddling around often enough that the backups get tested regularly.

BTW: I also have a scheduled task that kicks off at 6:15pm every day that uses RoboCopy to back up my data directory changes to the NAS.

Did I win?

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Speaking just of my main development and business management workstation…

I have three external USB drives connected continuously, and a fourth one that normally sits offsite.

1. I have a nightly VSS-integrated System Image backup scheduled. Usually takes 20 minutes to several hours to complete. Backs up drive C: so that a bare metal restoral could be done by booting up the WinRE environment from either a Recovery Drive (USB stick) or e.g., a Windows DVD.

2. I have nightly file backups scheduled to the three different external drives plus one internal hard drive pair (RAIDed) using ROBOCOPY scripts. My most important/critical files are backed up the most different ways to the most different places. Some of these file backups are ever-accumulating, meaning if a file is ever there, it’s copied and not automatically deleted, and some are mirrored, meaning they’re made into precise copies of the source incrementally. The ever-accumulating backups need attention from time to time to ensure they don’t accumulate so much that the drives fill up.

3. Nightly I have a separate server on premises make a LAN connection to my workstation and create a mirrored file backup by pulling files off and copying them onto yet another external USB drive. Importantly, the backup is not available online to the workstation without special activity by me. This would protect, for example, from ransomware or a virus encrypting or deleting everything that could possibly be reached from the workstation.

4. From time to time (e.g., monthly or so) I bring in the external drive from offsite, plug it into a USB port, and do another system image backup to it, then take it back offsite.

Except for number 4, this whole set of activities just does its thing completely unattended. Even number 4 is a matter of connecting the drive, just starting a script, then later disconnecting the drive. Trivial.

Though it took some time to set up, all this costs me essentially no effort now. The computers stay on 24/7 – which is actually best for computers anyway for reliability (heating and cooling cycles are bad; staying warm with air moving is good).

I have occasionally gone to a file backup if I need the data in a prior file. Very occasionally I access the multiple volume snapshots the system image backup makes (courtesy VSS-integration) to browse older copies of files. On one occasion, some years ago, I did a bare metal restoral to new hardware of a system image backup and had a fully recovered, fully configured running system in a few hours.

Oh, and I guess it’s a number 5… I have made copies on BD-R drives of my digital photos. That reminds me, I should go update that with my most recent photos – which are also backed up in 4 other places.

-Noel

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I take a disk image weekly (using Terabyte IFW) and keep one copy on a separate HDD and another on an external HDD which is kept disconnected except to make make the copy.

I have had to do a full restore a quite few times for real where I’ve changed something and didn’t like the outcome, and never had a problem (using Image for DOS to boot the system). I tend to have a touch of OCD about file tidiness so often mount an older image to copy back old files that I need.

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Microfix

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@David-F, Good advice on the backup strategy, it’s mirrored at my setup also albeit bi-monthly.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Even using copy and paste methods (provided you don’t have too many files or very large files) will produce a backup of documents, photos and other personal data. This is what I do, at least monthly. And I have Feature Updates on deferrals, so I don’t get surprised by an upgrade on Microsoft’s unpredictable timetable. I do these major updates on my schedule, with input from sites like AskWoody, as to when a major Feature Update is really ready to install.

What is troubling is that the vast majority of Windows users except businesses will not have taken such care to preserve their files. And they won’t have the skills or patience to go through the process of file recovery. Which leaves them going to professional data recovery services. And if they get told it’s an SSD or other Flash storage, they won’t be happy at all to learn the files may be permanently gone.

Which leads most folks to take Microsoft’s “advice” and use OneDrive to store all their data. Thus falling into Microsoft’s scheme to sell us subscriptions which must be kept up or else we lose access to all our files and all our apps — permanently. And still no guarantees against “accidental” loss of data stored there, or discontinuing an app and leaving users with no access to the file types the app had been using.

Nice cash cow MS is creating here, eh?

-- rc primak

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The extent to which you need backup arrangements really depends on the nature of your use. Clearly all business users have a greater need compared with many home users.

As a home user, I only have a minimal amount of photos and documents that I would miss if I lost them, yet if they’re important I make sure they are held on two separate computers, as well as on webmail, and my games are either automatically backed up on platforms like Steam and GOG or else they are stored server-side by the game itself. With important photos and documents I also print hard copies, and they are also readily available from their original source which is usually a friend or family member but may, for example, be somewhere like Facebook from where they can be re-downloaded if necessary. I backup both my phone and camera pictures on one of my computers and if I think it’s necessary I’ll also email them to myself and hold them on webmail and/or put them on a USB stick.

As such, I have no use for OneDrive, nor do I want to incur the cost (mainly in time) involved in running backup programs. I could, if I felt it necessary, make greater use of USB sticks but my present arrangements seem to work for me. My requirements are, however, pretty minimal compared to many users and are probably at the opposite end of the scale to many of the regulars here.

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For my Android phone, I do a round-robin for photo backups. I first move them to my Google Drive. Then I download them to my at-home PC. Then I back up the Photos folder from the at-home PC to my regular data backups on external hard drives. Finally, I delete any photos I don’t use on a daily basis from the phone. Same for the at-home PC if the photos are piling up. (Removing photos from the system drive also speeds up full-scale antimalware scanning.)

Once learned, this is actually a seamless part of my routine data backup strategy, and if I keep up with it, it takes very little time on any one pass at any one phase.

-- rc primak

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Before Windows 10, you could do backups every 6 month or so. What a great world was that. The OS worked fine and only had to worry about hard drive failure.

After Windows 10, need to make backups every month…no …week….no……………………. ….day….no….hour…no…every second yes.…. That is only way to be save.

In reality, you need to make backup every week with Windows 10 or more frequently if you want to protect your data from MS problems.

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The OS is not the only cause of problems. Hard disks fail, mains power can fail, etc. Hence, regular backup has always been an essential part of computer IF you have data that you value. People who’s use of a computer consists Facebook, Twitter, watching cat videos on Youtube etc, backup is probably not going to matter at all.

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Facebook users should be thinking about saving their photos and posts elsewhere in the Cloud if they want to be sure of disaster recovery and outage protections. But most people who use FB and Instagram probably aren’t thinking beyond the moment. Sometimes this short-sightedness catches up with them. Many younger people don’t seem to be the least bit upset when this sort of preventable data loss happens.

-- rc primak

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I worked supporting IT in a school at one stage. Kids were instructed to back-up their data. Without fail, every kid that bought a laptop to me for ‘repair’ answered “no” when asked, “do you have a recent backup”. At least, I don’t remember anyone backing up but maybe I forgot the one that caused me zero added work.

Due to lack of access, my main tool to fix problems was a system re-image using Ghost.  I was supposed to avoid file recovery but took pity on the kids, recovering obvious schoolwork while the disk was in the dock. They lost the personal things they liked (music, videos etc) as the data loss lesson.  You would think a school grapevine would result in the spreading of the message to back up but nobody seemed top learn and there were some repeat offenders. I don’t recall ever being told, “yes I have backups”.

Among the visits by kids, teachers had similar problems and the same response about backup.

Password security in the school environment  <shudder>

Group A (but Telemetry disabled Tasks and Registry)
1) Dell Inspiron with Win 11 64 Home permanently in dock due to "sorry spares no longer made".
2) Dell Inspiron with Win 11 64 Home (substantial discount with Pro version available only at full price)

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rc primak, geekdom

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The message was passed that you would repair computers and retrieve important files.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
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online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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See my post above about users of social apps. They tend to live in the moment, which pretty much precludes taking any security, privacy or backup precautions. Social media are designed that way. FOMO* tends to drive the “I don’t want to interrupt my feed to do this” mentality. It’s all planned by the site operators.

I’m surprised most service providers aren’t selling a premium feature to put everything back from their own backups. Call it “advanced account recovery”. They’d rake in billions annually. Trust me, your “deleted” posts are backed up. Just (usually) not by you.

*FOMO = Fear of Missing Out.

-- rc primak

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The OS is not the only cause of problems.

Currently it seems there is less hardware failures and more OS failures.

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rc primak

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