Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches

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It ain’t pretty, lemme tell ya. Post coming in Computerworld.
[See the full post at: Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches]

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abbodi86, Jan K., Propje, Myst, Demeter, GreatAndPowerfulTech, geekdom, SteveTree, HiFlyer, SueW, ymo1965, Microfix, Elly, fernlady

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If I may ask, why can’t this and many other previous blog posts wait until the actual article is up, with some real content rather than two sentences? It has been more than three hours since this appeared and the upcoming post is still not there. If it isn’t clear, I think a lot of us would appreciate it if a “notification” on AskWoody about an article were posted only after said article is available.

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rontpxz81, ymo1965, WilliamC

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It’s up now.

Chris
Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

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rontpxz81

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It’s a chicken/egg situation. Woody has to create the post first so he will have the link to put at the bottom of the article on ComputerWorld. But he has no control over when the article is published there. Watch to see when the link on AskWoody goes live – as soon as the article is up on ComputerWorld we will add the link to it.

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walker, abbodi86, Myst, GreatAndPowerfulTech, DrBonzo, woody, HiFlyer, ymo1965, Microfix, Elly

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… and in this case, I submitted it before jumping in a car, for a five hour road trip.

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Myst, GreatAndPowerfulTech

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You’re not taking The Patch Lady’s “Days of Paranoia” a bit too far? 😀

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Gotta get out while the gettin’s good.. 🙂

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Elly, SueW, Myst

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? says:

“…new stage of enlightenment,” = something, anything other than Windows?

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If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Myst, woody, Cybertooth

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As per your posted picture, what is “Y– N–“?

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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SueW

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ewok celebration song name at the end of ‘Return of the Jedi’ 3rd movie in the 1st Star Wars trilogy.

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Myst

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Another masterpiece bug in 1809:

1. Event
If you configure a roaming user profile using an environment variable such as% USERNAME% on the RS 5 terminal, the roaming user profile can not be used.

2. Cause
Environment variables such as% USERNAME% are not changed to a user name such as testuser but are recognized as a string of %USERNAME%.

(Source: TechNet blog)

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woody, PKCano, Microfix

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Google translation of TechNet blog from Japanese:

About roaming user profile problem in Windows 10 RS 5 (1809)

Hello. It is Yazawa of the Windows support team.
Since problems of roaming user profiles in Windows 10 RS 5 (1809) have been reported, we will inform you on this blog.

1. Event
If you configure a roaming user profile using an environment variable such as% USERNAME% on the RS 5 terminal, the roaming user profile can not be used.

2. Cause
Environment variables such as% USERNAME% are not changed to a user name such as testuser but are recognized as a string of% USERNAME%.

3. Workaround
There is no workaround when moving user profile is set in group policy.
If you set it directly to the property of the user object in Active Directory, you can avoid it by directly entering the real user name and real server name without using the environment variable.
If the number of users is large, please set the properties in the following sample script.

do / f “delims =”% i in (‘dsquery user’ ‘) do dsmod user% i -profile

Example) When changing the path of roaming profile of users under the test OU in the test.local domain at once
‘dsmod user% i -profile \\ FILESVR \ profile \ $ username $ for $ / f “delims =”% i in (‘ dsquery user “OU = test, DC = test, DC = local”

4. Measures
Microsoft recognizes that this event is a serious problem and we are working on fixing this defect with a higher priority.
We will inform you again within this blog as soon as the fix release date is decided.

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abbodi86, woody, Microfix

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I used to do roaming profiles. A big pain and glad I did away with all of that. Nice reporting and maybe PKCano can reply a little quicker next time.  🙂  (Nice work both of you.)

/threadjack

Red Ruffnsore

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Microsoft should release one upgrade a year at the most. Then spend the next six months tweaking and fixing bugs. So we at least have six month of relative stability.

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SueW, plodr, Myst, lanceboil, Demeter, Seff, Cybertooth

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I think it would be sensible if they adopted a policy across all Windows versions of holding back all updates for annual or possibly 6 monthly release, except for e.g. Zero Day hotfixes. They could give such updates a special name – perhaps something like, oh I don’t know, how about say “Service Packs”? This would allow users to have some respite from the usual monthly shenanigans while affording Microsoft sufficient time to do some actual pre-release testing.

While they’re at it, they could also announce now an extension of support for Windows 7 beyond January 2020, perhaps to bring it in line with Windows 8.1. It’s not like Windows 10 is in anything like a stable enough condition to make it likely that most remaining Windows 7 users will upgrade in the next 15 months. Microsoft might just as well bite that particular bullet and acknowledge the reality of the situation now.

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SkipH, Cybertooth, Myst

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Even better microsoft should release downgrade with every Version Build  Upgrade, so we can always rollback if we get infected by nasty patchware like windows build 1803 :O

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WINDOWS 8.1 IS THE MOST STABLE VERSION OF WINDOWS!

Thank you.

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abbodi86, Karlston, Microfix

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WINDOWS 8.1 IS THE MOST STABLE VERSION OF WINDOWS!

I’m gonna disagree.
The most stable version of windows is any version of windows on a laptop turned off, battery removed and stored on the top shelf way in the back of your closet. Please pay attention to the warning label that says: DO NOT OPEN … EVER

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HiFlyer

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Just read the ComputerWorld article. Aaaargh! All the more reason to leave Update settings at “Never…” until Woody gives the go ahead. Win 7 Pro, SP1 Grp. A (mostly) i7-core Haswell

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Charlie, Myst

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Windows OS just requires too much “hand holding”.  An operating system should just allow you to accomplish the tasks you want without needing constant attention.

Chrome OS can do 99% of what I want without the constant headaches. Interesting how you don’t seem to hear about the Windows issues on mainstream media. Deliberate? Don’t want to spook the shareholders?

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HiFlyer, lurks about, woody, GreatAndPowerfulTech

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Do not know why the general media does not cover MS’ follies as they do have a significant impact on people. But the general media is not interested in stories were they actually have to work and there is blood and gore. So explaining the follies would require your average not very bright reporter to actually work without any blood or gore to spice things up.

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Charlie, Cybertooth

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I really appreciate all of Woody’s posts. He does a nice job of expressing Windows rage with humor.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

7 users thanked author for this post.

flackcatcher, Charlie, SueW, HiFlyer, Jan K., Propje, Myst

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Seff wrote:

I think it would be sensible if they adopted a policy across all Windows versions of holding back all updates for annual or possibly 6 monthly release, except for e.g. Zero Day hotfixes. They could give such updates a special name – perhaps something like, oh I don’t know, how about say “Service Packs”? This would allow users to have some respite from the usual monthly shenanigans while affording Microsoft sufficient time to do some actual pre-release testing. While they’re at it, they could also announce now an extension of support for Windows 7 beyond January 2020, perhaps to bring it in line with Windows 8.1. It’s not like Windows 10 is in anything like a stable enough condition to make it likely that most remaining Windows 7 users will upgrade in the next 15 months. Microsoft might just as well bite that particular bullet and acknowledge the reality of the situation now.

Only problem with that is that if they don’t shove the latest and greatest build into all the home users’ PCs, they don’t do any testing, or so it would seem.  At the very least, their in-house testing procedures appear to be astoundingly insufficient.  The fact that the insiders’ reports of the data deletion bug were entirely lost upon MS leads me to believe that they never tested it enough to ever witness the issue themselves.

I’m not quite sure which is worse to imagine.. the idea that they just didn’t do any testing at all, or that their programmers literally never considered that people might actually keep files in a non-standard location.

I’m all for zero-day patching for massive vulnerabilities, but nothing in recent memory has actually seemed more threatening to my computer’s functionality than Windows Update.

People have door locks, alarms, and security systems to keep burglars out, but an incompetent or malicious repairman that you willingly grant access to your home is an entirely different type of danger.

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HiFlyer, anita.yk, Cybertooth

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Things will be even more fun when Microsoft releases the automatic troubleshooting feature next year (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2018/10/17/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-18262). Rest assured, if you don’t break it, Microsoft will help you.

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anita.yk, lanceboil, woody

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The blog post says the auto troubleshooter setting is greyed out right now. I suppose they still need to code in the “We couldn’t identify the problem” message!

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Seing what HI has brought us so far, for sure AI can’t be any worse!

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My employer pushed four October updates to my Windows 7 workstation last night as I was getting ready to leave.  Unfortunately they did not push KB3177467 separately.  So, after the reboot, the configuration percent complete went from 35% to 100% and then essentially went back to 0%.  I let Windows Update run overnight and fifteen hours later my computer was still stuck on “Configuring Windows Updates, Please Wait”. After consulting with the on-site PC Tech, I plugged the plug on the computer, even though the screen specifically said not to.

But there were no ill effects, and once I was able to get in, I was able to determine what got installed. Bottom line there’s a reason why Microsoft has set KB3177467 to be an “exclusive” update.

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You are incredibly lucky not to have experienced any ill effects from killing a computer that’s stuck on installing updates.

Every time I’ve tried to push the power button on a computer that’s in the midst of installing updates it becomes unstable and/or really really slow, and the only way to save my skins is to use System Restore and restore a restore point made before the update.

Windows is a volatile place.

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anonymous wrote:

You are incredibly lucky not to have experienced any ill effects from killing a computer that’s stuck on installing updates. Every time I’ve tried to push the power button on a computer that’s in the midst of installing updates it becomes unstable and/or really really slow, and the only way to save my skins is to use System Restore and restore a restore point made before the update. Windows is a volatile place.

It was not really installing updates. A check of the event viewer showed it successfully installed all of the updates at 5:47 PM. I killed it at about 9:25 AM the following day.

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That is the Stage 3 of 3 hang. I recall mention somewhere that KB3177467 was baked into the October rollup even though this update is an exclusive update??? If true, maybe this is why the October rollup is now unchecked.

Next time if Windows just sits there on the configuring updates screen and your computer’s hard drive light shows no activity for at least five minutes, other than the ever so brief blinking of the light once a second, try typing ctrl-alt-delete. This should kick start the installation of the subsequent queued update after the hung update. If that doesn’t work and you are still seeing the hard drive light blinking once a second yet no other activity, use the computer’s power button to either power off or restart the computer. Never actually pull the plug.

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SueW

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GoneToPlaid wrote:

That is the Stage 3 of 3 hang. I recall mention somewhere that KB3177467 was baked into the October rollup even though this update is an exclusive update??? If true, maybe this is why the October rollup is now unchecked.

Next time if Windows just sits there on the configuring updates screen and your computer’s hard drive light shows no activity for at least five minutes, other than the ever so brief blinking of the light once a second, try typing ctrl-alt-delete. This should kick start the installation of the subsequent queued update after the hung update. If that doesn’t work and you are still seeing the hard drive light blinking once a second yet no other activity, use the computer’s power button to either power off or restart the computer. Never actually pull the plug.

I don’t think KB3177467 is baked into the October rollup. I think KB3177467 became a prerequisite of the October rollup.

At the time I killed the computer the hard drive had long finished it’s activity. Afterwards, I rebooted into safe mode and then kicked off a CHKDSK. It just cleaned up a few unused index entries and security descriptors; there were no real problems to speak off.

I’ll try ctrl-alt-delete or the power button next time.

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KB3177467 is an exclusive update. It has to be installed separately, not “baked into” the Rollup. In Win10, the SSU is bundled (not baked into) the Cumulative Update. It does not show up in the Windows Update queue, but the update mechanism automatically installs it first, then the CU. (Not talking about manual installation here. The person doing manual installation is responsible for the sequence then)

I suspect MS could do the same thing with Win7/Win8.1 if they wanted to. I hope that’s what they are working!

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Not that GTP needs corroboration, but if you dig around the support page for KB3177467 you’ll see that hanging on either stage 2 of 3 of stage 3 of 3 is a known issue – at least for v1 – and that the solution is ctrl+alt+del, which should cause the machine to boot.

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I have the Windows 7 October update now, but only after I hid the Software Removal tool. It seems to be set as an exclusive update, and won’t appear otherwise.

That does make some sense, forcing you to do the servicing stack update separately if you need it – assuming they can set it where you get that one first.

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Successful Win 10 Pro 1709 update.  Downloaded KB4339420 SSU update and KB4462918 October 2018 delta update (from 10-6-18) from MS Update Catalog, enabled WU service, installed two KBs, restarted OK.  In Settings/WU/Advanced, changed quality update deferral days to 0, ran WUSH utility and hid unwanted KB4023057, ran Check for Updates to update Office with October KBs.   Reset deferral to 30, disabled WU service.  Machine stable for two days.

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Patch Alert: Where we stand with the October patches

It ain’t pretty, lemme tell ya.

Information on Computerworld.Woody on Windows.

Hmmm… a simple copy & paste text with only month’s name changed?

As we’ll probably see the same text in November, December etc. etc. you could save a bit of time by replacing “the October” with “this month’s”! 😀

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SueW, woody, Cybertooth

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Reflecting on all this, I think we really have not come very far in the last few decades. A very long time ago, Bill Gates opined that, if the motor industry had moved as far as the IT industry, a Rolls Royce would cost £100 and do 1 million miles to the gallon. To that, the GM Vice Chairman replied that their cars do not explode catastrophically once a month, killing all their occupants.

We really ought to have moved on significantly from that lack of reliability and, while the underlying software has moved forward considerably, the patching and security process has not.  I started on Windows 3.11, and sometimes I feel we have not moved forward very far.  My cars just work, so long as I take them to be serviced as I should, so why don’t my computers? My Android tablet just works, as does my Android phone….

I just want to get on with my work, and let my wife get on with her work, without having to waste time monitoring for problems the whole time on sites like AskWoody, excellent though it is.

Oh for the quality standards that have been routine in engineering for a hundred years in the Windows world.

 

Chris
Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

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lurks about, Cybertooth, Seff

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My takeaway from this is, yet again, to stay far away from windows 10. The deleting of user’s personal files alone should have cost them millions of customers to go elsewhere. If it means jumping ship to Linux and the headache of getting things to work and sacrificing one’s games then so be it because literally anything has to be better than the toxic dump that is 10.

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Charlie, johnf, Cybertooth

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woody & Susan:

NEW Win10 updates released 10/17 & 10/18:

KB4462932 for Win10 v1709

KB4462939 for Win10 v1703 (yes woody, you CAN install this on your Win10 v1703 computer)

KB4462928 for Win10 v1607 education, enterprise & LTSB 2016

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woody, abbodi86

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I nearly forgot to mention – new preview rollups for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 are also available from MS Update Catalog (I couldn’t edit my previous post due to 403 site errors a few hours ago)

KB4462927 for Win7 SP1

KB4462921 for Win8.1

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woody

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I had a feeling MS wasn’t done with 1703 yet.

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My Win7 SP1 x64 PC, Group B since the beginning of same; use mostly non-M$ browser, software etc.; Haswell chip. Home, SO/HO machine.
……
Following is I think a new one, in these Update follies. Have had KB3177467 V 1 installed since 9/27/2016.
…..
Note: I am currently under a BIOS or other similar problem. On boot, my PC “can’t read from disk”; “disk not found”; or similar. Thru several reboots plus Avast Free AV rescue disk and/or Win7 Emerg. Disk, gets the PC to reboot and finally start normally. I ~think~ it may be loose MoBo SATA connection, and/or failing HDD. My solution for that now: Leave the PC on, non-sleep, 24 X 7. Will attempt all that later.
…..
Decided to install Group B secur-only, plus IE11, patches today. Why? No show-stopper errors on Ask Woody it looked like; plus want to do it and get it over with.
…..
First, installed KB3177467, V 2 for Update stack, as discussed on this board. Install non-remarkable, incl. reboot.
…..
Then, tried install of secur-only KB 4462915 X64. Went OK thru desktop install, logoff, Win installer install plus reboot plus installer finish-up. THEN, got error msg “Microsoft-Windows-Servicing,3,None,Package KB4462915 failed to be changed to the Installed state. Status: 0x80004005”
…..
Installer itself aborted install, reverted PC to pre- that install state; successfully got onto Win Desktop on reboot. Thank the Lord, System restore took me back to pre-SUS Version 2 install; no longer on my PC.
…..
Then, installed secur-only KB4462915, reboot, then successful install of IE 11 kb4462949-x64, reboot, both installs un-remarkable. PC works; able to use Net including hitting Drudge Report and NY Times.
…..
Net Troubleshooting error msg. incl 0x80004005: Cannot determine. No clear answers, except probs. in the Update stack. Plus, after removal of that update, plus success install of secur and IE 11 patches, the Vers. 2 Stack update seems clearly the culprit. HTH
…..
Side note: For the first time, on this slower Sat. morning over a cup of coffee: I had, I think, my ~first~ serious thought of “Maybe I ought to buy a Mac”. I want easy-to-use and I’ve had work expers. with Macs.
…..
I have ~Really~Tried~ for 10 Years, or more, to use Linux on VMs on my PC, to popularize Linux, joined local Linux User groups, posted several times re Linux Mint and other, on this board, and elsewhere. But I have found it extremely hard to learn, even to do simple things like change desktop colors, set up a Samba-shared file to access the base Win PC; etc. Help still leaves much to be desired, for me, incl. some of the websites mentioned on AskWoody posts. Just a thought. Again, HTH.

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I wonder if more people have had the same problem and if it is because of KB3177467  V.2.

Any opinions on recommendations on this? Thanks.

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Ever consider sub-Defcons? At least for 10 vs 7/8/Sever 2008?  As wonderfully helpful as the posts are, sometimes it seems like the single Defcon rating is mixing apples and oranges.

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Charlie

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I had thought about this idea recently too, but MS always manages to get something wrong with Win 7 and even Win 8.1.  It would, however, be very nice to know which problems are only affecting the so called wonderful, safe-and-secure, still in experimental stage, must have, Windows 10.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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rick41

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Is it the consensus that KB4462923, the W7 Oct monthly rollup has been pulled for good? I have found no official explanation from Microsoft that explains why it has not returned. Did not installing the 2018 SSU fix the issue? Even if you install the SSU, windows update is not re-sending KB4462923. Though it is sending out other updates.

KB4462927, the latest optional preview sent out by windows update does not state that it replaces KB4462923, but it does state that it contains all the updates from KB4462923 (it’s cumulative, I get it), plus a lot of extra improvements and fixes. It will become the November monthly.

I see that the 2018 SSU is a prerequisite for KB4462927 as well. As long as KB3177467 sits in the queue uninstalled, no windows updates will follow.

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walker

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The Monthly Rollups (Security updates) are CHECKED “important” updates and are composed of three parts:
1. Current month’s Non-security patches
2. Current month’s Security patches
3. Current month’s IE11 Cumulative Update

The Preview Rpllups (Non-security updates) are UNCHECKED “optional” updates and are composed of four parts:
1. Current month’s Non-security patches
2. Current month’s Security patches
3. Current month’s IE11 Cumulative Update
4. Next month’s Non-security patches

The Previews are intended to be used for testing, mostly by IT groups, to determine if there are any problems before the next month’s Rollup is released. They are not usually intended for general consumption. That is why they are UNCHECKED and in the “optional” updates. Since they are Non-security updates, they do not supersede the Security Monthly Rollups released on Patch Tuesday.

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walker, Chris B

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