Partitioning Win 7

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This is an old question in a new world.

With an O/S and programs and any assorted data it made sense to have multiple partitions, Along came the registry with its admixture of O/S and programs and it made a mess of things for those who liked compartments. Some swore by a single partition for everything, and others just swore.

What are we to do with Win 7 and a clean install? (I expect a hundred opinionated answers, but that is exactly what I want.) Now we have Virtual Drives (and even a relief from that for XP Mode, Cloud Computing, and all the rest of it. What’s a guy to do? This is not academic, as i may reconfigure a computer quite soon.

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This is an old question in a new world.

With an O/S and programs and any assorted data it made sense to have multiple partitions, Along came the registry with its admixture of O/S and programs and it made a mess of things for those who liked compartments. Some swore by a single partition for everything, and others just swore.

What are we to do with Win 7 and a clean install? (I expect a hundred opinionated answers, but that is exactly what I want.) Now we have Virtual Drives (and even a relief from that for XP Mode, Cloud Computing, and all the rest of it. What’s a guy to do? This is not academic, as i may reconfigure a computer quite soon.

My preferred method is for 3 partitions. OS, data, recovery. Keep in mind that I aslo backup that HD to another just in case.

Ken J

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I have just one partition on my PC’s. I understand the reasoning behind have seperate partitions, and I used to do this, but that was during the days of annual clean install of the OS. I believe Win 7 has made the need for annual reloads a thing of the past and as such the reasons for multiple partitions become much more gray and less black and white. I also image my PC to an ext. hd regularly so recovery should be easier if disaster does strike. I believe that spending the little time it actually takes to update your OS and apps, and keep nasties out by regular scans and up to date AV and AM goes much farther toward creating and keeping a stable and secure system that an annual reload to get back to a stable system ever did. Hence the work necessary to maintain a seperate partition is unneccessary. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents worth.

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I have just one partition on my PC’s. I understand the reasoning behind have seperate partitions, and I used to do this, but that was during the days of annual clean install of the OS. I believe Win 7 has made the need for annual reloads a thing of the past.

I disagree with the “thing of the past” part. My son has a 64 bit Windows 7 laptop which he bought new last November. He uses it only for gaming. Over the last 6 months one of the games (Dawn of War II) has gotten slower and slower and (perhaps coincidentally) more and more Windows updates were applied. The only thing that got his performance back to original was to restore the system from the recovery partition, apply all outstanding updates, then reinstall the game. Until Microsoft provides a suitable system maintenance facility that does effective garbage collection then the occasional reinstall will still be necessary.

By the way, the restore partition will ALWAYS remain untouched so we can get back to “as shipped”. After applying updates I create a system image (but not with Microsoft imaging) on a removable drive.

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I disagree with the “thing of the past” part. My son has a 64 bit Windows 7 laptop which he bought new last November. He uses it only for gaming. Over the last 6 months one of the games (Dawn of War II) has gotten slower and slower and (perhaps coincidentally) more and more Windows updates were applied.

My son uses the family PC for gaming. He has several installed, plus online games that he plays. I keep all Windows updates current, his games run as fast as when they were installed. His favorite is World of Warcraft which he loves to play online, and he consistently bests his online counterparts because he can move faster on the playing field than they can. Most of them have cutting edge PCI-e graphics cards and dual-core CPU’s. Everyone has broadband.

We’re still on AGP and a P4 3E. But then, I also have multiple partitions to keep stuff where I want it. As I said in an earlier post, my Windows 7 OS partition is 16GB, and I plan on getting it under 10GB.

Do any of us expect our vehicles to change their own oil and filter, rotate their own tires, etc.? There are some fairly simple maintenance steps to be performed on a PC on a routine basis, and it will keep on keepin’ on. To me, the reformat/reinstall dance is just an old wives’ tale.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Over the last 6 months one of the games (Dawn of War II) has gotten slower and slower

That’s unlikely to be a Windows problem Jim. If all the games had gotten slower, yes. But only one game points to the game being the problem.

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I’ve been getting away from partitions as of late in favor of completely separate internal drives.
And why not, It’s not like they’re too expensive or too difficult to add another drive to an existing system.
One has a load of SATA ports on their board and may as well put them to good use.

Solid State Drives are starting to look better, but they too it seems, has some way to go yet before
the technology is worked out more fully with regards to reliability and maintaining consistency and speeds.

Cloud computing would be something to look out for, but right now it just isn’t up to snuff as far
as security and reliability go. With Cable and DSL speeds improving I can really see the potential of the
internet becoming a great storage medium with only one caveat, security/reliability. Long way to go yet.

I’m still of the opinion that you get and put your os on the fastest drive you can get your hands on
and move off as much non essential stuff as posible, like Documents, favorites, email contacts and storage,
to another drive. But don’t go too far like moving installed programs. The page file, or at least one component of it
should always remain on the main drive with the os.

I’m getting bye nicely without XP and never plan to look back, so no need for me to dual boot anymore.
I would not recommend using “XP Mode” on Windows 7 unless you have some really decent system specs.
A well tuned dual boot environment between XP and Windows 7 would be far better.

Windows 7 is by far the greatest operating system MS has put out to date and 64 bit computing is on the verge
of becoming big time, totally mainstream.

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Its come to the point where there are so many valid options now that I say its to each their own strategy…whatever method one thinks best or most advantageous for thier own habits or conceptualization for compartmentalism or data handling convenience. Most non-technical minded people don’t understand partitioning so many are the Acer systems that come in for service with a full C drive and nothing on the D drive. On the other hand if a system is dual-booting two Windows OSs, then a shared data partition is ideal and two seperate partitions for each OS is mandatory. I disagree with some of the things mentioned above by CLiNT, but I’m sure they’re fine by him (or they wouldn’t be mentioned) so to each thier own strategy.

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Its come to the point where there are so many valid options now that I say its to each their own strategy…whatever method one thinks best or most advantageous for thier own habits or conceptualization for compartmentalism or data handling convenience. Most non-technical minded people don’t understand partitioning so many are the Acer systems that come in for service with a full C drive and nothing on the D drive. On the other hand if a system is dual-booting two Windows OSs, then a shared data partition is ideal and two seperate partitions for each OS is mandatory. I disagree with some of the things mentioned above by CLiNT, but I’m sure they’re fine by him (or they wouldn’t be mentioned) so to each thier own strategy.

That is certainly true, I have a friend with whom I have been trying to get to use a partition for backing up of his data.
He crashes his system and looses data everytime and I just can’t get him to grasp the need for partitions or even image backups.
For some, computer failure is inevitable and no amount of help will ever be enough.

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My two cents…

On my bench machine I currently have Windows 7 divided up into 5 partitions plus a recovery partition. I have the OS by itself on a 16GB primary partition (that I plan to shrink soon), I have Program Files on a 79GB logical drive in an extended partition, I have Users on a 40GB logical drive in that extended partition, the swap file in on a 4GB logical drive all by itself (formatted in FAT32) in that extended partition, and I have a catch-all of downloaded apps and utilities, some notes and data files, web site updates, and what-not on a 45GB logical drive. I also have a 5GB partition that my installation DVD is copied to, and that partition is bootable via some BCD editing. Needless to say, MS does not support moving Program Files and Users off the OS partition. It also breaks the ability to do a repair/reinstall (in-place upgrade that preserves files and settings) from the Windows 7 DVD. It will abort as soon as it sees that Program Files is only a junction point, and not a folder. But I use drive images as backup, so if I happen to pooch something, I’ll just reload and go again.

You can visit my web site to see how I have XP carved up on my main machine; I have 10 partitions spread across two physical hard drives. I still dual boot XP and 7 on that machine, as well as my laptop. I have XP similarly carved up on my laptop. The method behind my madness is that there is no need to waste the time to restore a 500GB (or whatever) drive image when in nearly all cases you only need to restore the OS and the User settings. I have all my Programs set to store their products in Users[Username]Documents[whatever]. You can read about that at my web site, as well (there are no ads, I support the site myself).

As far as the reformat/reinstall every (name your interval), I haven’t done that dance since Windows 95 OSR2. With a little common sense and some routine maintenance, my systems don’t slow down over time. Benchmarking has confirmed that for the last several years. The only crashes I get are the occaisional hardware failure. In fact I’m expecting delivery of an Intel D875PBZ motherboard for my main machine this afternoon. I intend to update my web site soon with the particulars involved in carving up Windows 7. It requires some junctions, some registry editing and a few other odds and ends.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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My two cents…

On my bench machine I currently have Windows 7 divided up into 5 partitions plus a recovery partition. I have the OS by itself on a 16GB primary partition (that I plan to shrink soon), I have Program Files on a 79GB logical drive in an extended partition, I have Users on a 40GB logical drive in that extended partition, the swap file in on a 4GB logical drive all by itself (formatted in FAT32) in that extended partition, and I have a catch-all of downloaded apps and utilities, some notes and data files, web site updates, and what-not on a 45GB logical drive. I also have a 5GB partition that my installation DVD is copied to, and that partition is bootable via some BCD editing. Needless to say, MS does not support moving Program Files and Users off the OS partition. It also breaks the ability to do a repair/reinstall (in-place upgrade that preserves files and settings) from the Windows 7 DVD. It will abort as soon as it sees that Program Files is only a junction point, and not a folder. But I use drive images as backup, so if I happen to pooch something, I’ll just reload and go again.

You can visit my web site to see how I have XP carved up on my main machine; I have 10 partitions spread across two physical hard drives. I still dual boot XP and 7 on that machine, as well as my laptop. I have XP similarly carved up on my laptop. The method behind my madness is that there is no need to waste the time to restore a 500GB (or whatever) drive image when in nearly all cases you only need to restore the OS and the User settings. I have all my Programs set to store their products in Users[Username]Documents[whatever]. You can read about that at my web site, as well (there are no ads, I support the site myself).

As far as the reformat/reinstall every (name your interval), I haven’t done that dance since Windows 95 OSR2. With a little common sense and some routine maintenance, my systems don’t slow down over time. Benchmarking has confirmed that for the last several years. The only crashes I get are the occaisional hardware failure. In fact I’m expecting delivery of an Intel D875PBZ motherboard for my main machine this afternoon. I intend to update my web site soon with the particulars involved in carving up Windows 7. It requires some junctions, some registry editing and a few other odds and ends.

Hello:

My understanding is that the value in having a separate partition for the swap file is to set a fixed size and avoid having Windows spend resources computing the size of the swap file. An additional important benefit in having the swap in its own partition is that it can be chosen as the first partition on a physical hard drive other than the hard drive the operating system resides on for improved access times. The second (or more) hard drive(s) can provide space on an alternate spindle for backing up data away from the normal locations on drive one where Windows would normally keep it. I favor three partitions on drive one; the operating system partition, a Data partition and Downloads partition and if needed a recovery partition. On drive two: the swap file partition, Virtual machine partition and a data backup partition plus which ever partitions you may like or feel is necessary such as a system image partition. I use SyncBak to keep the partitions up to date for data backup. Hard drive space is really inexpensive nowadays so let your system have lots. I use an external USB drive for an alternate backup target.

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My understanding is that the value in having a separate partition for the swap file is to set a fixed size and avoid having Windows spend resources computing the size of the swap file. An additional important benefit in having the swap in its own partition is that it can be chosen as the first partition on a physical hard drive other than the hard drive the operating system resides on for improved access times.

My main desktop PC has two physical hard drives, and the pagefile is on the second hard drive away from the primary OS. The other chief reason for having a pagefile of a fixed size on a dedicated partition (no other files whatsoever) is that it never becomes fragmented, according to Microsoft. Also, FAT32 has slightly faster read/write times than NTFS (less file system security overhead).

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Thank you all for the very stimulating answers to my post, which is just the sort of discussion I was hoping for. I must admit there were some angles that I hadn’t considered, and I’ll bet I’m not the only one who fits that description.

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Is it easy to assign a location for “Documents”, “Pictures”, “Music”, “Mail”, etc. other than to the C Drive for Win7 or does Microsoft make it difficult? Is there any program like TWeak that makes such assignments easy to accomplish?

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I recall this discussion from a little while ago:
http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/index.php?showtopic=772536&view=findpost&p=827388&hl=partition&fromsearch=1

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I prefer Clints method with separate Drives. I keep everything important on 2nd drive and mirror it to a huge usb backup drive occasionally.

Only bad is my fastest drive is 650Gb and thats where Windows is, but windows will grow and grow with that backup of everything you do done to the Winsxs folder. Over time there will be a need to hose it and reinstall just to clean the mess. With SP1 on the horizon at 1.2GB(x86 and x64) combined you can bet even though we have installed well over 200mb of updates that when this SP is installed it will occupy even more space because a copy of it might also go to that winsxs folder
I have heard of this folder reaching the very large size

heres my winsxs folder but I recently installed again where Windows installed on the hard drive at roughly 13GB

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heres my winsxs folder but I recently installed again where Windows installed on the hard drive at roughly 13GB

Windows Explorer does not report the correct size of Winsxs. Winsxs contains many symbolic links to the same files. When Windows Explorer is used it treats each instance of a link as though it were an instance of the linked file even though the file exists only once. I don’t know of any software which will give you a true picture of the Winsxs size. It would have to count the linked file only once and then count the size of the links individually.

Joe

--Joe

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The winsxs folder can be moved off the OS drive just like moving the Program Files folder and the Users folder. On my bench machine I’ll soon have my OS partition down to 10GB, and it will basically stay that way. Right now it is 16GB with 4.8GB free, with the winsxs folder still in Windows.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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BBearren:
Can you point me to a procedure that outlines how to move the winsx file from the C: drive please?
Thank you.
Dick

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BBearren:
Can you point me to a procedure that outlines how to move the winsx file from the C: drive please?
Thank you.
Dick

I’m in the process of writing up the complete procedure for my web site, but don’t have it finished and published yet. There is a partial explanation here on moving the Program Files folder, but it isn’t quite as detailed as it needs to be, and moving the winsxs folder is a bit different. I’ll keep at it until I can get it published on my web site. As I mentioned in the thread I linked, I want to do some further testing as well. There are a few twists that aren’t very obvious, and I want to get it as specific as I can.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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BBearren:
Thanks. I look forward to your write-up.
Dick

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BBearren:
Thanks. I look forward to your write-up.
Dick

I’ll be looking forward to this as well.

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I am delighted with the responses to what seemed an old and stale question, and I must say it has given me some unexpected viewpoints.

I will almost certainly now add a third hard drive to one existing computer, simply because I have too many computers and it makes sense pull the drive from one and add it to another so that I can upgrade the memory and resources on a single machine and consolidate the registered software on that computer, rather than try to spread it across several, and put the data in a single location, subject to certain conditions. I may also scavenge the ‘old’ hardware for devices that are superior to and can be swapped for those on the newer computer.

Multiple boots are a separate matter. It makes sense to me to maintain a small partition with an older system when that system supports applications that are valid for the newer system. The cost of upgrading to a newer version of an application that is valid across all drives and partitions when run from the old O/S can be considerable, although in other cases it may not be valid at all and must be upgraded. If you have a top-of-the-line defrag utility, for example, data on drives may be just dead wood to it and it may be as easily be run from the old O/S as from the new, at a savings of, say, fifty bucks for the new version. The new may have added bells and whistles, but it is still a lot of money. A careful examination of software compatibilities and upgrade costs might change minds about multi-boot systems. On the other hand, lots of older and major programs (e.g. CorelDraw, WordPerfect, and Adobe Suites) run on Win 7 without blinking, albeit without the MS seal of approval.

By mutual consent, I suspect, we ignored anything other than desktops: networks, laptops, and netbooks, although we did touch upon clouds and flash. I have a 32 GB SD flash drive that I have mislaid and gone crazy trying to find, as the price plummets all the while – do you realize…? Yes, I’m sure you do.

As for the single partition crew, I can only point out that if you have a very large drive and image it, and then have occasion to restore the image to, say, a laptop with a significantly smaller drive…

Further to x64 and external storage, a quick reminder is in order that USB3 is finally here, hardware is out there or in the pipeline, and unless you are desperate for a device or a bargain it might make sense to wait for its mainstream arrival.

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As for the single partition crew, I can only point out that if you have a very large drive and image it, and then have occasion to restore the image to, say, a laptop with a significantly smaller drive…

AcronisTI can be a little quirky about that but usually no problem–unless the data, OS and apps are phyically too large to fit. Also the very detailed management of a system and its partitions is fine for one or two systems but the time consumption on the front end is rather inefficient when there are say 20 or 25 systems or more to set up and maintain in such a manner, because changes both planned and unexpected are going to happen fairly frequently to a larger population of systems. I use some simple partition seperation and management but with the advent of large and cheap storage capacities, quickly lumping and storing it all is ever so nice and gives me time to see the sun every day.

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I use some simple partition seperation and management but with the advent of large and cheap storage capacities, quickly lumping and storing it all is ever so nice and gives me time to see the sun every day.

Until your large and cheap external backup image drive fails…

I image directly to DVD’s. With smaller and more managable partitions, this is rather quick and painless. Using my regimen, I have found that the Program Files partition needs only to be imaged when a program is either installed or uninstalled.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Until your large and cheap external backup image drive fails…

I image directly to DVD’s.

With due respect optical media is not without fault either. If the content is important to you it will be available from multiple places (i.e. more than one backup and or even multiple media types). This way you can enjoy the convenience of online storage for ease of access and refer to your alternate offline backup if necessary.

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With due respect optical media is not without fault either. If the content is important to you it will be available from multiple places (i.e. more than one backup and or even multiple media types). This way you can enjoy the convenience of online storage for ease of access and refer to your alternate offline backup if necessary.

True enough, optical media is not without fault; however, from what I’ve read, it is more reliable than magnetic media. and with the simplest of care (put it in a case), it lasts for years. I also use multiple file copies across my home network for quick recovery from accidental deletion or file corruption. I sometimes do “quick and sloppy” images to a hard drive partition if I’m trying something that may pooch my system.

I use BootIt NG which will run from a single bootable floppy disk (or bootable CD), so if I totally crash Windows, I can still get my system back up and running in just a few minutes. And as I’ve said, not everything needs to be backed up every time, so I can generally recover my system from only two or three current DVD’s. If I lose a drive, I can recover that drive using those two or three current DVD’s and a dozen or so older (but still relevant) DVD’s without losing any important files or data. For more info, see my web site (no ads).

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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With due respect optical media is not without fault either. If the content is important to you it will be available from multiple places (i.e. more than one backup and or even multiple media types). This way you can enjoy the convenience of online storage for ease of access and refer to your alternate offline backup if necessary.

Let’s daisychain another old chestnut: the reliability of optical media: Is there any news of advances? or does the best we can do still consist of avoiding electromagnetic fields and high ambient temperatures?

I store seed at -23 deg C to increase viability period from 4 years at 20 deg C to 20 years: would that help?

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Let’s daisychain another old chestnut: the reliability of optical media: Is there any news of advances? or does the best we can do still consist of avoiding electromagnetic fields and high ambient temperatures?

I store seed at -23 deg C to increase viability period from 4 years at 20 deg C to 20 years: would that help?

I’m sure I have some images on DVD’s that are five or six years old. I also have lots of the same files on some DVD’s that are only five or six days old. I use drive images as backup, but I’m not looking to resurrect my Windows 2000 installation on this PC… no drivers for some of my hardware. The point here is that I don’t need twenty years or even two years; I just need a couple of months to satisfy any need that may arise, since I’m using drive images.

But even with that, I can open my drive images and pull out a single file if I should have the need. I don’t need to restore the whole image.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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BBearren:
I didn’t want this thread to fall from view; and I was wondering how your “moving Winsxs” testing/write-up was coming along. Any prognosis on it’s availability?
Thank you,
Dick

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BBearren:
I didn’t want this thread to fall from view; and I was wondering how your “moving Winsxs” testing/write-up was coming along. Any prognosis on it’s availability?
Thank you,
Dick

I got a bit sidetracked replacing a motherboard in my main desktop, and the replacement I ordered was DOA (which took me most of a day to confirm in order to get a RMA). I’m back into the waiting-for-delivery mode on that and so back to writing up my Windows 7 modifications for updating my website.

Since it is somewhat unorthodox, I’m double and triple-checking my steps in order to make sure I’ve got it right. As soon as I have my website updated, I’ll post a notice in this thread for those who are interested. Hopefully I won’t be too much longer.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Keeping in mind that today’s hard drives (usually SATA) are getting bigger and bigger, there are several good reasons for multiple partitions on a hard drive.

1. Multiple partitions make access to the data or programs by the read-write heads faster (well documented fact…).
2. The user can make the 2nd, 3rd, 4th partitions with different block sizes – 4/8/etc… Kbytes instead of 512 bytes.
o The boot partition can be set aside for Windows-7 and other applications.
o One partition can be set aside for “User” files and data
o One partition can be reserved for Audio/Video files (larger block sized partition)
o One can be set aside for System Recovery (also larger block sized partition)
o If more than one user accesses (a home computer) – responsibility can be delegated by assigning one partition to each user, his/her files, etc…

These are the TWO most salient reasons that I can think off. There may be others based on the User’s personal experiences and preferences…

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I have 2 partitions: one for windows and all software and the second is for my data. that way, I can format my win drive without losing my data. I have used this method since I bought my laptop around 20 months ago. and it worked with the Vista I had and now with 7.
I also regularly back up things like favorites and other stuff that must stay on C: so I can be safe if something happens and I can’t access my windows…..

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Where back ups are needed to protect against three possible problems:

1) A small hard drive fault

2) Complete hard drive failure

3) Loss of computer (theft, fire, flood etc)

PARTITIONING of a hard drive ONLY protects against 1) above.

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Setting up multiple partitions can also provide performance advantages. You can assign different cluster sizes to other partitions which depending on the data you are storing can provide significant read/write performance advantages over that provided when using a single partition.

Re: “Cloud” computing—
I’d also add that there are significant privacy, data loss, and legal questions that remain, especially in the U.S. where a National Security Letter can without a warrant provide government access to your data on a second party’s systems. By law, you will not be even notified such access occurred. Your data could be obtained either due to an effort targeted specifically to you, or your data could be caught up in a less specific data gathering effort. There is also the issue of what happens to your data…
–if the company providing the “Cloud” resource goes out of business or is sold to another company, or company assets/servers are seized by government authorities for a reason totally unrelated to you (IRS, criminal investigation, etc),
–or a disgruntled company employee steals the data,
–or the company’s systems are hacked as they present a much more attractive target than an individual user’s computer.

And, if you think the company’s encryption will protect your data…are the company’s encryption protocols strong or weak? And even if strong, will the company be legally compelled to provide a master decrypt key to any other entity?

(Note: the above issues apply to online backup services as well)

Clint Rossmere said, “Cloud computing would be something to look out for, but right now it just isn’t up to snuff as far security and reliability go.”

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I have to say I disagree with most commenter’s that seem intent on using either DVD (archival is just fine) and HD back up methods, simply because 1) DVD holds way too small amount of data, 2) HD’s do fail and also what happens when you overwrite the last backup with the new one and you later find out this one was hosed (which is why I would never use imaging as a backup method) but you did not know about its condition prior to running your backup? This happens a lot. I have to say I much prefer using several SCSI 320 HD’s and using DLT 160/320 tape drives as backup devices. External versions of the DLT tape drive are movable from one PC to another (no need to max out your network bandwidth backing up over it) without fuss or muss other than buying a SCSI controller for usually less than a single HD). I have internal DLT 320 units on all machines since they are relatively cheap nowadays. Speed is about 1.2 GB per minute. They do not eat CPU cycles (as low as 6% and as high as 12% running in streaming mode) like IDE and SATA do. SCSI has its own CPU dedicated to these functions leaving your base CPU mostly untouched after beginning the backup. Each can hold from 160-320 GB per tape (cost each tape – roughly $5 – $10 per tape) they can be linked for larger capacities (i.e. TB) when needed but I do not recommend this if at all possible as you have to be there to swap the tapes unless you have a library style (8 to 200 tapes) DLT to max your backup to 160GB… You can have as many individual backups as you have tapes. HD’s do run out of space, they do fail, and if you hose the FAT or Partition Table on it, ALL your backup efforts and data is wiped with a single FAT write error. BOO to HD as backup… Also, yes, I have had a tiny percentage of bad tapes but you find that out during a DLT’s automatic read after write (verify), most DVD backups do not verify so you do not know it has completed without any errors and the same for HD unless you do a verify after backing up and most people do not do this…

As to partitioning, the OP’s question: I dual boot with all three windows OS on the same partition (yes, it can be very simply done), UNIX on another. I have never used Documents… or Users… style of storage for any purpose and refuse to succumb to brainless storage schemes like this if at all possible. Swap files are never on the OS partition since simultaneous reads/writes can never be done on the same drive, and even under the very best of conditions, at least one revolution away. All installed software is never put into MS’s Program Files directory nor even the same drive or partition, they are installed on different non O/S drives with or without their own partitions (I partition the program/data HD’s to fit the tape 160GB sizing) and in their own directory just below the HD root. All data is maintained therein as well. I also use a small basic 9GB IDE for both a DOS (2 GB) partition allowing machine access no matter what and to avoid the much used Boot Sector media wear out syndrome (cheap to replace and simple to repair or swap out if needed. No drivers required.

One other thing – just like ye olde 8 track and cassette tape experiences some of you may remember, every pass the head(s) make(s) on your HD’s media surfaces, a tiny bit of magnetic polarization is removed and at some distant point down the road, that data will begin failing a read attempt. Either a low-level format or data rewrites will prevent this from ever happening (SpinRite).

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RAM…

Unless you are running dual headed drives, and I would bet you have never even seen one, what you say about faster access using simply by using partitions is incorrect. There is only one armature in the drive and it can only be in one place – platter, side, head number – at a time, it does not care where it is, or what partition it is in, only once every revolution (unless you are running SCSI with elevator seeking) can data be read or wrote. You may be thinking of interlocking two or more drives into a single partition which is known as Striping and then and only then, is your statement correct, and, ONLY if the data is actually spread across more than one of the drives, and this would require the data to be at least be bigger than the striping block size chosen during striping setup for that to even happen…..

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I have three partitions:

1 (C:)Window programs and applications
2 (D: Logical Drive) ALL data files and program settings, profiles, etc
3 (C:) Second Windows installation with older apps and / or programs which may be ‘flakey’ and interfere with ‘needed’ mainstream apps on first partition. This partition is only available by dual boot program (PQBoot), and also uses the D: drive

Advantages of this are, firstly all data files and program settings are on one logical drive which is good for regular backup and easy restore if Windows needs to be reinstalled, and secondly that any programs which I know to be ‘less than reliable’ are on a separate partition. My backup strategy is to backup the data drive weekly, and the clone the entire disk monthly

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I just received a Dell Inspiron 1764 laptop with a 320GB hard drive and was shocked to find that the C drive with everything on it was less than 60GB. The D partition was empty and contains 229GB. There are also 2 small partitions for the usual diagnostics and recovery files. After adding some programs and files my C drive was well over half full. That’s when I discovered the odd partitioning. Even adding all new programs to the D drive still bloats the C drive since all programs add files to the Windows System files and some custom installations do not allow installation on other partitions. I don’t want to repartition a new computer, but I can’t see any other way. I’d like to hear some suggestions that don’t require repartitioning the drive. I assume this small system partition is so the recovery image file can be smaller and to make it simple for Support to restore factory settings, something I have never used. I spend a lot of time removing the bloatware and updating Windows on my computers and don’t want to return to factory settings.

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I am a bit sloppy in my computer maintenance and I have an environment that might be atypical. First off, I am the only user at my home so I don’t have to worry about keeping anybody else’s data separate. Second, my PC is also my Home Theater PC. I have a few laptop’s but I have not yet needed to add a second desktop or file server to my home network.

Over the course of time I have decided that I would buy another disk drive approximately whenever a new disk drive double the size of all my current disks drops below $100. So now I have three reasonably large sized disks in my system. Each disk has a 20GB partition for an OS plus programs so that any single disk is bootable and ready to go. Right now it’s one copy of Ubuntu and two duplicate images of Windows. Soon I think one of the Windows boots will be Win7.

Beyond that I think of my data to suggest partitions:

I have one partition for data I created myself that would be irreplaceable (email, documents, pictures, etc – backed up often).

Another partition would be for larger files that I have paid for that would be inconvenient to replace (music, movies, etc – backed up occasionally).

Finally another partition for free files and backups that I could download again for free if I had to or I would not be heartbroken if I lost (television, movies, backups, etc – not backed up)

That’s not to say that each disk needs 4 partitions, just that I spread them around with enough duplication or backup so that I feel comfortable. But it seems to work out to 2 or three partitions per disk.

It works pretty well for me, any OS can seamlessly access the same email, documents, or images. Each OS can record and playback the same TV shows so I don’t have to worry what is scheduled in the live OS (however that had to be manually synchronized in different software). The last time I had a crash the only thing I lost was recent browser favorites.

I would like to add partitions if they could speed up performance but I have not researched that recently. I’m open to suggestions.

Also, with Win7 and Ubuntu, I will finally be able to take advantage of 64 bits and I am beginning to think about adding an SSD. Should I make RAM extra large and allow the swap on the SSD or should I put the swap on a slower magnetic disk and spare the write cycles on the SSD? (sorry for slightly off-topic but SSD in the mix will change my partition choices)

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Mary G

Unless you repartition or at least resize your partitions using the various proggies out there that do that, you are basically stuck and C will indeed fill shortly… How do you backup would be the only question I would ask before recommending a solution… The hidden Restore partition should not care how big the system (boot partition in your case as well) partition is.

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Mary G

Unless you repartition or at least resize your partitions using the various proggies out there that do that, you are basically stuck and C will indeed fill shortly… How do you backup would be the only question I would ask before recommending a solution… The hidden Restore partition should not care how big the system (boot partition in your case as well) partition is.

Thanks, that what I thought. My complaint is that Dell has never done this on any of my Dell computers. I’ve since found out that other makers do this too. I wish I had checked the partitioning first and/or Dell had specified the partitioning before I added anything. Computer Management would have made it easy to change this setup without now having to reinstall everything. The only good thing is Dell finally stopped labeling the visible Recovery partition as Drive D. That made inexperienced users use it for useless backups even though it ruined the restore image and was on the same drive. When I saw Drive D in the list I assumed it was the same old Recovery Image. Now it does not show up at all in Explorer or Computer and is only visible in Disk Management. I use external drives for backups, so no problem there.

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2) HD’s do fail and also what happens when you overwrite the last backup with the new one and you later find out this one was hosed (which is why I would never use imaging as a backup method) but you did not know about its condition prior to running your backup? This happens a lot.

I agree with the above 100% but I still HATE tape backups. (restore is miserably slow and they are very expensive.) To get around the above problem on a disk I use the following method.

Create one backup job for each day of the week Monday through Thursday with each backup target location in seperate folder on the drive. Make each backup a “full” (not incremental) backup.

Have each backup OVERWRITE (not append) to the last backup. (this makes Monday’s backup overwrite last Monday, Tuesday overwrites last Tues, etc.)

Create a schedule that runs each job WEEKLY on it’s respective day. (Monday runs on Monday, Tues on Tues, etc)

Create 4 Friday jobs named Friday_1, Friday_2, etc.

Create a schedule that runs each Friday MONTHLY with Friday_1 run on the first Friday of the month, Friday_2 on the second Friday, etc.

Now you can go back to any day of the last week and any Weekend of the last month.

The trick of course is to have a large enough drive space to hold 8 complete backups.

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The main problem with tape backup is the same as the main problem with backing up to an internal or external hard drive. Failure of magnetic media is a matter of when, not if. I rarely do a complete backup, simply because it isn’t necessary if your partitioning/backup scheme is laid out with some thought, and you have your applications trained to store their product files where you want them stored. So the number of DVD’s required for the backup scheme I use is fairly small. I only occaisionally do a full system backup.

I am also a firm believer in drive imaging for backup. It just works. I highly recommend testing your backups from time to time, as well. It’s hard to match the feeling of frustration when a hard drive gets pooched and your tape backup is unreadable.

I am currently dual-booting XP and Windows 7 using two physical hard drives, and multiple partitions on each. By having the operating system and the Program Files folder on separate drives, there is an increase in performance simply because both drives can be read or written to simultaneously; the buffers stay full and there are few CPU cycles wasted waiting for data.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I just did some work on my cousins computer and asked myself the same question. So here is what I did…

My cousin had a top of the line Toshiba Satellite multi-media laptop that she purchased last Christmas. It came installed with Windows Vista. Over the course of the year they managed to destroy the operating system. It had several viruses, every IE toolbar add on you could imagine, it took about 2 years to boot up, you couldn’t install Vista SP2 and it would not shut down without having to perform a hard shut down via the power button. I didn’t want to even begin to trouble shoot the issues one by one and just decided to use the bootable partition and re-image the hard drive.

I backed up all there data via DriveImageXML and was going to start the re-image process when they called and asked my opinion on Windows 7. I had already installed Windows 7 on another machine and played around with it and I gave it good reviews. My opinion was enough, they liked what they heard and asked if I could install it?

So here I am; Windows 7 disc in the machine and ready to start my fresh install. Yes, I wanted to blow away the Vista OS and chose not to perform an upgrade. I am at the point of deciding if I want to partition the hard drive and to my surprise I discovered that the laptop had 2 physical hard drives (each was 120GB). So I had to rethink my strategy and this is what I decided to go with.

Hard Disk 0 had the Vista OS and the bootable partition to revert back to the factory OS if need be. I wanted to leave them with the option of going back to Vista (as crazy as that sounds) if they wanted to so I chose note to delete that partition. I did, however, delete the OS partition and installed Windows 7 to that.

Hard Disk 1 I reformatted using NTFS (for some strange reason it was formatted with FAT32). After configuring Windows 7 exactly the way I wanted I used Clonezilla to cloneghost the OS and pointed the OS backup to Hard Disk 1. I also installed backup software on Windows 7 and pointed the backup to Hard Disk 1.

My cousin was left with Windows 7 as her primary OS, the bootable partition if she wanted to go back to Vista , a clone of the Windows 7 OS and a set it and forget backup solution. This way, if she ever comes back to me needing help again (which no doubt she will) I have a number of different options I can take to help her.

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Should I make RAM extra large and allow the swap on the SSD or should I put the swap on a slower magnetic disk and spare the write cycles on the SSD?

The latter option, especially if you partition swap-only space. Even with wear-leveling the SSD will wear out prematurely in such a case.

The D partition was empty and contains 229GB. There are also 2 small partitions for the usual diagnostics and recovery files. After adding some programs and files my C drive was well over half full. That’s when I discovered the odd partitioning. Even adding all new programs to the D drive still bloats the C drive since all programs add files to the Windows System files and some custom installations do not allow installation on other partitions. I don’t want to repartition a new computer, but I can’t see any other way. I’d like to hear some suggestions that don’t require repartitioning the drive.

There’s no way to get around repartitioning, or at least partition adjustment. If the D partition is next to the C partition and on the right side in Disk Management you can delete the D partitiion (after relocating any data which will be lost) and then expand the C partition into the unallocated space that was the D partition. Google the extend and shrink commands for some how tos.

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What I’m after is a way to install Win7 on a drive other than C. On all my computers I have C formatted fat32 and install the OS on another NTFS partition, usually F.

I have not been able to get Win7 to install on another partition–it insists on putting itself on C, which annoys me. I recently set up an Inspiron Notebook with Win7, had C formatted fat 32, D = NTFS. Thought I was installing Win7 on D, but it automatically redesignated the NTFS partition as C, and I ended up with a fat32 partition on D. Now I can still work with this — I use a fat32 partition because I am still using some Dos programs that don’t quite work right on NTFS. But it means I have to modify the settings in some of my Dos programs, and I don’t like to do that unless I have to…and Win7 is not all that essential to me.

I’ve had this set up working for years in win2000 and XP, but my string of luck seems to have run out.

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Do any of us expect our vehicles to change their own oil and filter, rotate their own tires, etc.? There are some fairly simple maintenance steps to be performed on a PC on a routine basis, and it will keep on keepin’ on. To me, the reformat/reinstall dance is just an old wives’ tale.

Sure to many of us it is, but is it realistic for the population at large? We all know that answer is no, your simple steps are more like a complete engine overhaul to the average user. Imagine if you could bend a million persons’ ear all at the same time, how many would have more than just a slight passing interest in what is said? 10% maybe? 1% probably. Point 1% might actually follow up.

I think its better to work within the constraints of the conformity even if it rubs the wrong way most of the time. One can always do more from the inside than the outside, speaking contextually here of course. In other words, I can safely take care of a thousand systems in a well-crafted and incrementally improved traditional sense, or, I can fight tooth and nail to get 10 or 20 done the way I want them done. Intellectually I may feel I’m right but in the meantime, I’d lose the war.

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Sure to many of us it is, but is it realistic for the population at large? We all know that answer is no, your simple steps are more like a complete engine overhaul to the average user. Imagine if you could bend a million persons’ ear all at the same time, how many would have more than just a slight passing interest in what is said? 10% maybe? 1% probably. Point 1% might actually follow up.

Find me an auto maker who markets their product as completely maintenance-free. True, some market their vehicles with free maintenance, but I don’t think you’ll find even the sleaziest of the stereotypical car salesman who will advise against checking the oil or replacing the tires on a car when the cord is showing. But just because PC’s are marketed in that manner doesn’t make it true, as witness the presence of so many help forums on the internet.

I think its better to work within the constraints of the conformity even if it rubs the wrong way most of the time. One can always do more from the inside than the outside, speaking contextually here of course. In other words, I can safely take care of a thousand systems in a well-crafted and incrementally improved traditional sense, or, I can fight tooth and nail to get 10 or 20 done the way I want them done. Intellectually I may feel I’m right but in the meantime, I’d lose the war.

I’m not fighting a war, just trying to spread a little truth. I feel that as long as I’m doing that, someone may listen, and I’m satisfied with that.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Since we multi-boot both with Linux and with Windows systems going back to Win9X we do partition our drives. Among other things, it lets us use portable applications (and of course data) which can be accessed from multiple different systems without exposing one system image to another’s potential accessing quirks.

People using such multi-boot environments with Vista or Win 7 need to be careful when partitioning, since Vista/Win7 systems do not play well with earlier versions of Windows in this respect – i.e., using out-of-the-box Vista or later disk management to partition a disk which was originally partitioned using a pre-Vista Windows system (or vice versa) can wind up trashing some of the existing partitions (as could using non-Windows partitioning utilities of dissimilar vintages: Partition Magic – RIP – is so obsolete that it sometimes has difficulty dealing even with XP partitions, but occasionally-available-for-free versions of Paragon Partition Manager seem to be able to handle recent Windows versions). Linux and its partitioning programs allegedly play well with everyone, but I still have more confidence turning them loose on old-style Windows partitions.

The way we deal with this is to partition in the old style and modify the Vista/Win7 Registry to use it as well. I’ve successfully used Acronis True Image Personal Version 8 (which I think predates Vista) to image a Vista system from a disk with new-style partitions and then restore it to a disk with old-style partitions (and then modified its Registry as noted) to multi-boot with Win2K. Using old-style partitioning in this manner will become a bit more awkward as disks with 4 KB sectors become more common (the Vista/Win7 new partition formats were designed with these in mind), but it should still be possible to use them without performance loss if one carefully arranges the layout to begin each partition payload (not including the MBR track at the start of the disk or the EPBR track at the start of each logical partition) on a 4 KB disk boundary (such partitions may not end at a 4 KB boundary, but that shouldn’t be a problem). Edit: At least with Win2K and later, which I think align their file clusters at 4 KB offsets from the start of the partition payload; Win9X may not, but there may be a tweakable partition parameter to force it to.

A wealth of detail regarding the above can be found at http://www.multibooters.co.uk/index.html

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@JaFar Gibson

If I may suggest…although I think DriveImageXML is sufficient to do so, you may wish to also consider the flexibility of using a program like freeware HDclone to create a bootable backup of the Vista drive.

Either method would free-up the storage capacity of the 2nd hard drive for use in the notebook while still providing the ability to come back to the ORIGINAL Vista if they ever choose to do so. In other words, why waste the space of the 2nd drive on an OS they may never use again? Just give them the capability of going back to the original environment. It may take them anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes to do so, but the point is…they CAN do so without sacrificing storage space on the in-use system.

One nice feature of using HDclone is that you don’t have to have any special boot environment or a second system in which to restore the backed-up DIXML image to the drive. You can boot directly from the backup drive if desired. So, you’re up and running with a fully operational OS in 5 minutes.

Or, even better if the budget allows…I’ve seen a new major brand 320gb 2.5″ drive on sale for less than US$50 these days. Just pop-out the Vista drive and give them more real-time capacity. Store the Vista drive in a secure, hardware-friendly environment. If they ever need to go back to the Vista drive, just swap out the drives.

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There are some great ideas here – its always good to hear how other people approach this problem.

I am a computer repairer and a very common problem I see is what others have described before – a full C dive and an empty D drive. Most users werent even aware they had a D drive in the first place !
I tried the partitioning idea on my own computer initially and found that I was always juggling the sizes of partitions as one partition ran out before the others.

Currently for my own computer I keep it simple. I have a normal large C drive which I install all my programs and all my data. I backup to an external drive nightly, and important stuff to DVD occaisionally.
I realise that some small gains in performance can be made using partitioning, but for my use (browsing, email, office apps) I dont feel the need to complicate my setup for a small performance gain.

Every 12 – 24 months I clone to a newer larger hard drive. I figure this reduces the likelihood of failure to a reasonable level, provides more space for my ever expanding storage, and I have my backups in the worst case scenario.

I reinstall when my system gets sluggish and normal maintenance doesnt help (I trial loads of programs) – this can happen every 12 – 24 months, and gives me the option to clear off a lot of junk and get back to my core of frequently used programs. I get around the problem of data vs program separation by booting from an ERD rescue disk (you can use Barts or other bootable CDs) and renaming 3 folders: the Windows folder ,Program Files folder, and the Documents and Settings folder (or Users folder on Vista / Win 7). Then I reinstall to the same disk and the data is sitting in the renamed folders ready to be moved to the new location. This probably isnt an easy solution for a non-technical user, but isnt too hard for a more advanced user, as most people in this forum would seem to be.

Peter Griffiths

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@Peter Griffiths

Actually the performance gains can be substantial. It’s highly usage dependent. An instantaneous 20% increase in performance is not unusual for some drives and certain file sizes as measured by the utility HDspeed. It’s further complicated by drive rotation speeds, interface, latency, cache, DMA mode, whether write caching is enabled, fragmentation, etc.

I’ve also seen even higher performance gains over the USB interface by experimenting with partition cluster-size. It may be reducing the overall USB transaction overhead (e.g. allowing more data to be transferred in between overhead bus management transactions). By cutting out a lot of the transaction overhead, the effective data rate can soar…if that’s the mechanism.

That’s why I match cluster-size assignment to the type of data I’m working with. For example, I assign 16K or 32K clusters to partitions in which I store video and audio files which tend to be fairly large. For partitions in which I know most of my files are going to be small, the 4K cluster-size is certainly OK.

For relatively small files as appears to be your most common situation (such as emails, browsing, documents, etc) you likely would see only minimal gains, if any, and can even see performance reductions by configuring needlessly large clusters.

Peter said, “I realise that some small gains in performance can be made using partitioning, but for my use (browsing, email, office apps) I dont feel the need to complicate my setup for a small performance gain.”

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I’m not fighting a war, just trying to spread a little truth. I feel that as long as I’m doing that, someone may listen, and I’m satisfied with that.

No problem with that at all, I’m just coming at it purely from the boring pragmatic viewpoint. I do my own thing as well but knowing I am almost exclusively just the puppetmaster of my own tiny domain which would not work (or be nescessary) in almost any other situation.

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I have all my data on a USB drive. Easy to copy/backup or take to another computer. I wish there was an easy way to keep the stuff that defaults to the OS drive (MyMusik, MyPics, etc.) to that drive.

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My simplistic approach to partitioning:

Hard Drive 0: (Can you even buy anything less than 300GB+ today :>)
C: Drive – 50 GB OS Partition
D: Drive – 250+ GB Data Partition
Comments: Move the user folders (including AppData folder) to the D: Drive.
This leaves plenty of room for program applications and the swap file on the C: Drive.

Hard Drive 1: (I prefer this to be circa 500GB+)
E: Drive
E:Data – Copy / backup of the D: Drive using automated backup program via Task Scheduler on every login (runs invisible in background).
E:OSbkup – OS image backups of the C:Drive. I use ‘Image for Windows’ to make OS image, run once a week as a background task via Task Scheduler. Keep 3 versions of image backups.
E:Data 2 – Extra data storage for master copies of program files, space for VMs, monthly and periodic backup of OS image, etc.

External USB Hard Drive: (I use a 750GB SATAII drive here with a SATAII connector)
Y: Drive
Y:Data – copy of E:Data
Y:OSbkup – Copy of E:OSbkup
Y:Data2 – Copy of E:Data2
Copy using automated backup program via Task Scheduler on every login (runs invisible in background).

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My simplistic approach to partitioning:

Hard Drive 0: (Can you even buy anything less than 300GB+ today :>)
C: Drive – 50 GB OS Partition
D: Drive – 250+ GB Data Partition
Comments: Move the user folders (including AppData folder) to the D: Drive.
This leaves plenty of room for program applications and the swap file on the C: Drive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So it’s possible to just move a whole user folder?

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Here’s a quick (or not) exercise for anyone; if you have only one hard drive in your PC, remove it, replace it with a new drive and completely restore your system. Time yourself. If you have two drives, remove your OS drive, replace it with a new drive and completely restore your system. Again, time yourself.

If you rely on an external drive for backup, pronounce it dead for purposes of this exercise, and perform the above.

My point is that you will never know how well your backup regimen works or what flaws it hides until you are forced to depend on it. I have used mine from time to time over the years, I also test it from time to time, and it has evolved into the scheme I use now.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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My point is that you will never know how well your backup regimen works or what flaws it hides until you are forced to depend on it. I have used mine from time to time over the years, I also test it from time to time, and it has evolved into the scheme I use now.

And a well made point it is. In a corporate environment we test backups (by restoring) at least quarterly and the more paranoid among us do it monthly. (this is beside checking backup logs every single day to make sure backup is actually doing something) But then our whole careers depend on these things working, I can guarantee that if my boss asked for a file or we lost a server and I had to go tell him that I “thought” it was backed up but now cannot lay my hands on it, I am going to be looking for work tomorrow….

How should a home user manage this? I can assure you that most will not check logs very often and test restores are out of the question.

This is a bit off topic for this thread but partitions can make backup sizes manageable and restores much quicker as bbearren has pointed out in some detail.

I have been rethinking some of my own practices after reading this thread and see that there is some pretty major inefficiency in what I do.

I appreciate the in depth look I can get at other’s techniques.

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.
How should a home user manage this? I can assure you that most will not check logs very often and test restores are out of the question.

Wrong. As a home user every time I create a drive image, I turn around and then restore from that image. I don’t want to depend upon an image that doesn’t work.

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Wrong. As a home user every time I create a drive image, I turn around and then restore from that image. I don’t want to depend upon an image that doesn’t work.

You are one of the very few.

How do you do it? Do you have two machines to test with? do you restore into a VM? Most home users do not have the hardware to do a true test restore.

I have preached this from the housetops with my small small business customers (one or two computers) and have had very little response….

Once again we are getting off topic of partions…..

Or maybe not…. does anybody have a partition they use just for test restores??????

I am fighting this problem right now and have a thread going over in the server forum about it. I have customer that has a new $10,000+ server. How do I do a test bare metal restore? I can assure you he won’t buy me another one just to test on.

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You are one of the very few.

How do you do it? Do you have two machines to test with? do you restore into a VM? Most home users do not have the hardware to do a true test restore.

I do have multiple OS installed on separate partitions of just one pc. I choose to do the restore option after having created an image. Should one of the images mess me up I would have to resort to a prior image (which I have already tested) and update it or boot to one of my other OS and work from there.

I could, I suppose, set up a new partition just to test restore an image.

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Once again we are getting off topic of partions…..

Or maybe not…. does anybody have a partition they use just for test restores??????

Of course. That’s what partitioning is all about, as far as I’m concerned; stability, reliability, and an efficient and easy to use backup regimen.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I am fighting this problem right now and have a thread going over in the server forum about it. I have customer that has a new $10,000+ server. How do I do a test bare metal restore? I can assure you he won’t buy me another one just to test on.

Think outside the box a little. A good image is one that will restore to a good drive. That’s it. Using partitions, I don’t need a 500GB (or larger) drive in order to test my drive image backup, since I’m not imaging the entire physical drive. I only need a partition of equal size. My largest partition is a 100GB logical drive. I only need a 100GB partition to test a restore of this image.

On each of my hard drives, I partition it into one small primary and one large extended partition. Then I can put as many logical drives on that extended partition as I want. As I’ve mentioned earlier, I have a 100GB partition I use for video editing. If I’m not actively editing video, that partition is a good spot to test my drive images. If it is an image from a bootable drive, I can put a boot entry into my boot manager temporarily to make sure it boots.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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This is an old question in a new world.

With an O/S and programs and any assorted data it made sense to have multiple partitions, Along came the registry with its admixture of O/S and programs and it made a mess of things for those who liked compartments. Some swore by a single partition for everything, and others just swore.

What are we to do with Win 7 and a clean install? (I expect a hundred opinionated answers, but that is exactly what I want.) Now we have Virtual Drives (and even a relief from that for XP Mode, Cloud Computing, and all the rest of it. What’s a guy to do? This is not academic, as i may reconfigure a computer quite soon.

This is a bit off topic for this thread but partitions can make backup sizes manageable and restores much quicker as bbearren has pointed out in some detail.

I have been rethinking some of my own practices after reading this thread and see that there is some pretty major inefficiency in what I do.

As you can see from the original post, it’s not off topic at all; in fact, it’s dead-on.

Your statement about inefficiency is really at the heart of the matter for me. I’ve been doing this stuff in one form or another since before there was a Windows. No matter what use one may have for a PC, sooner or later there is more than likely going to be something on the hard drive that the user does not want to lose.

During the short lifetime of this thread, I lost another hard drive. It was on my main desktop that the whole family uses, and it was the drive with the Windows 7 OS on it. At first I thought it was the motherboard (multiple beeps and boops from the system speaker on a startup and failure to POST) and replaced it with what turned out to be a DOA new motherboard. It wouldn’t POST even with nothing but RAM and the graphics card. After the second motherboard arrived (and a whole bunch of step-by-step troubleshooting) I found that it would POST with only one SATA drive plugged in, and I could boot into XP. The Windows 7 SATA drive would stop the POST dead in its tracks. It would spin up on startup and the head would move, but there was something wrong in a major way. The freezer trick didn’t work, either.

New drive installed, I split it up into the same number of partitions as the old drive, formatted them, and restored my Windows 7 image from 4 DVD’s into a 36GB partition. My main Program Files folder for Windows 7 is on the other SATA drive, the one with the XP OS installation (I’m still in the middle of what I referrenced in my posts #7, #12 and #14).

As for the other partitions on the dead drive, one held the Program Files folder for XP. The contents of that partition hadn’t changed since I installed Windows 7; I haven’t installed any new programs in XP since that time. The latest drive image for that partition is from last year, but is still up to date, on 14 DVD’s. I restored that one. Another partition is one I use for video editing, and that is one that I don’t backup, since I burn the final product of the video editing to DVD anyway. Another partition is a file archive, and that one is backed up on DVD’s. I can restore it whenever I have time.

My point in this long-winded story is that other than the time wasted because of the DOA “new” motherboard (my son used my laptop for his schoolwork in the interval), I was basically back in business with Windows 7 in the time it takes to diagnose and replace a dead hard drive and for the DVD drive to read 4 DVD’s. I didn’t lose any programs or settings, no data files, nothing of any significance.

Having multiple partitions spread across a couple of drives and frequently used files copied and spread across PC’s in a home network decreases the potential and severity of loss, lowers the frequency of backing up and the volume of backup media. And it enhances the ability to get back up and running quickly after a major failure. I’m posting this from that PC.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Having multiple partitions spread across a couple of drives and frequently used files copied and spread across PC’s in a home network decreases the potential and severity of loss, lowers the frequency of backing up and the volume of backup media. And it enhances the ability to get back up and running quickly after a major failure. I’m posting this from that PC.

Basicly that’s what I do (some NAS as well) but I may have taken it a step further still in that I have entire redundant systems, as many as four sometimes, so if anything happens (and its always hardware failure in my case) I just switch over in a heartbeat (a few minutes if it happens to be the local workstation and I want to physically replace the workstation) and pick up right where I left off. Obviously this requires more up front time expenditure and what I call non-downtime background automated task scheduling (in other words, the light bill is going to be higher!) but actual downtime is zilch and I can fix any problem at my leisure.

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that most will not check

Wrong. As a home user every time I create a drive image, I turn around and then restore from that image. I don’t want to depend upon an image that doesn’t work.

I’m a fairly advanced user and I have to admit I’m one of the most. With a dozen or so systems currently active its just not practical to test every image by restoring it. I do make sure that the image is verified each time just after creation, and have never encountered a problem with the exception of occasional incompatible versions in which I had to resort to the older, compatible image app. that was responsible for making the image. This occurs sometimes during the inevitable program upgrade cycle, especially when the software program is intended more for business application rather than a home network user (unfortunately).

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On each of my hard drives, I partition it into one small primary and one large extended partition.

And that is essentially what I have on this server. However, a “small” or “large” partition in server sizes is a bit different than workstations. Even so I think I am still thinking inefficiently.

I have one drive that is for the OS that is 146gb. (this is actually 2-146gb drives in RAID1)

I have one drive that is for Data that is 650GB. (this is actually 6-146gb drives in RAID5)

I have Windows Server 2008 R2 installed on the first drive.

I have SQL server executables and databases, Corporate antivirus software, and User data for around 25 users on the second drive.

So far I have been thinking in terms of IMAGING this entire server, but…………

I should be able to IMAGE the first drive (which is relatively small), and do file backup of the second drive with the caveat that those executable files must go back into the EXACT same file structure and the drive must be assigned the same drive letter on the restored machine…….

(This server is the domain controller for their network. Reinstalling, rebuilding the users and rejoining the domain with all the workstations is a good 3 day’s project.)

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BBearren:
I didn’t want this thread to fall from view; and I was wondering how your “moving Winsxs” testing/write-up was coming along. Any prognosis on it’s availability?
Thank you,
Dick

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BBearren:
I didn’t want this thread to fall from view; and I was wondering how your “moving Winsxs” testing/write-up was coming along. Any prognosis on it’s availability?
Thank you,
Dick

The addition to my web site on partitioning Windows 7 will be 6 or 7 pages initially, and I’m finishing page 4 now. Hopefully, a couple of days and I’ll publish it to the web. I’ll post a notice in this thread.

I’m also working on updating the entire site, chasing down broken links and such, so there will be continuing changes, but I’ll get the Windows 7 stuff up first.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Partitioning Windows 7 is here. I’ve got some more work to do on the site, but I wanted to get this up for the folks who have been waiting. These procedures are offered as-is with absolutely no guarantee of success. Use at your own risk. My systems work fine, but that doesn’t mean that yours will. And don’t even start without a full-system backup, preferrably drive images.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Partitioning Windows 7 is here. I’ve got some more work to do on the site, but I wanted to get this up for the folks who have been waiting. These procedures are offered as-is with absolutely no guarantee of success. Use at your own risk. My systems work fine, but that doesn’t mean that yours will. And don’t even start without a full-system backup, preferrably drive images.

I’ve edited the article on partitioning Windows 7, added some more cautions and hopefully some clarification. Updating the entire site is still a work in progress.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I’ve edited the article on partitioning Windows 7, added some more cautions and hopefully some clarification. Updating the entire site is still a work in progress.

I’ve added your web site to my bookmarks. When I have a little more time I want to spend some time looking it over. Thanks for your work.

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bbearren:

Thank you.

Dick Y

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Here’s an addendum for all who prefer to rely on an external hard drive for backup. I’ve had a Seagate FreeAgent 500GB for a couple of years. I never used their software, I just used the drive as a target for my drive imaging in 4GB file segments which I would later burn to DVD. Quite handy for my laptop, which doesn’t have a DVD burner.

It died last week. Just died. Nothing could see it, and the drive activity light did not light, although I could tell by feeling the case that the platter was spinning. As luck would have it, it was still under warranty so I went online to Seagate’s site and filled out the forms for an express exchange. They send out a new drive via 2-day UPS service, and I return the dead drive in the same box with a prepaid label. $19.99 for the service, which isn’t bad considering I didn’t have to pay any additional shipping charges, and I got a replacement in 3 days.

But it’s better. I had recently deleted all the old files and formatted the drive, since I was up to date on burning to DVD, so I didn’t lose anything, nor did I have any readily available sensitive files on the drive I had to return. In addition, they no longer make the 500GB model, so they sent a 750GB as the closest replacement.

My point is, if my backup images had been on that drive only, they would also be dead and gone. Seagate does offer a file recovery service, but I’m quite sure it’s more than $19.99.

As I said in an earlier post, failure of magnetic media is not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. This incident and the failure of a SATA drive I described in an earlier post are further testimony of my preferences for partitioning and a tried and true backup regimen.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I don’t believe in arguing with people that know more than I do but here goes……. (just for the sake of discussion)

What are the chances that the backup drive dies on the same day that the computer it has backed up dies???

I understand that in test/experimental environments multiple images are important as you may want to go back days or even weeks so the catalog of images is important. In most production environments, losing the backups is not critical as long as there is a working system to backup again…….

Now if a lightning strike (fire, tornado, flood, etc.) gets your production hard drive and the backup drive at the same time, you have a real problem.

One solution if you don’t like optical is 2 or 3 different hard drives on a rotation schedule.

PS> on the tornado issue, I have recovered entire harddrives that were found in the crushed shambles of computers after the tornado in Greensburg, KS

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What are the chances that the backup drive dies on the same day that the computer it has backed up dies???

The last time I had used the external drive was before the SATA drive bellied up. I didn’t know it had died until I plugged it into my bench machine to do a quick and sloppy before I resized a partition. So there’s one (but as I said, it didn’t really have anything on it at the time).

As for important files, I do keep copies on my other PC’s in the home network, as I’ve said before. It’s pretty quick to pick up an accidentily deleted file from a shared drive. Having multiple partitions on multiple hard drives is just another way of not putting all your eggs in one basket.

I know that my routine is not suitable for a business network, but it isn’t purposed for a business. It serves a home network quite well, though. I’ve got some pictures that are more important to me than any work file I ever produced.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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And after saying that….

I think there is a place for both.

I use Disk2disk and other media (on my business customers it is tape)

If somebody just deleted a file last week and finds out they need it today, pulling the correct optical media disk or tape is a big pain. It is much easier to restore it from disk.

If the business burns, you better have something offsite.

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a tried and true backup regimen.

any discussion that gets this in front of people is good. I can’t count on my fingers the number of times I have had someone bring me a computer that had never been backed up or they “thought” was backed up sometime last week and I can find no hint that it was backed up for the last three months.

A backup that is not automated will fail !period!

A backup that is not tested will not work.

A backup to a single USB hard drive is better than no backup but for most users it MUST be scheduled automatically or it will not be there when they need it. This is the reason that for some a single extra usb hard drive is best, they simply will not remember to do any manual steps in a few months….

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A backup to a single USB hard drive is better than no backup but for most users it MUST be scheduled automatically or it will not be there when they need it. This is the reason that for some a single extra usb hard drive is best, they simply will not remember to do any manual steps in a few months….

I can’t disagree, but the automated backup system has an Achilles heel; malware infection(s). A lot of the same folks that need an automated backup because they can’t remember a manual regimen also have problems remembering that they shouldn’t open an email attachment that they were not expecting, or click on popups when they’re surfing the web.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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A lot of the same folks that need an automated backup because they can’t remember a manual regimen also have problems remembering that they shouldn’t open an email attachment that they were not expecting, or click on popups when they’re surfing the web.

Not attempting to nitpick here but that is a rather broad generalisation wouldn’t you say? An automated backup solution home or business orientated which is well suited to the purpose would would nearly always be better than relying on human memory. Computers are great for being on time and remembering things (if programmed), people a lot of the time less so especially with large periods of separation i.e. monthly/quarterly backups

I do see where you’re coming from in a sense that some computer users which are a little vague with best practices tend to completely forget about online security, backups of their important data etc. But on the other hand many power users as you might wish to call them have automated backup systems in place to reap the benefits of being care-free with a dependable backup solution.

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bbearren is correct that most less technically inclined users would benefit greatly from stored images. He is also correct that it is the weakness of automation that it is difficult to handle a malware infection.

I think that this thread is getting a bit off topic. (although partitions and backups are hand in glove)

I would like to start a new topic on backup best practices for windows 7 and continue there. Many here have developed their own practices and I think I could learn much from some of you.

here is a link to the new thread if you wish to continue the backup part of this discussion.

http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/index.php?showtopic=774651

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You’ll not notice but I dropped off the discussion a while back (monitor only) and that’s not because it isn’t interesting but it became a 1%er discussion, not applicable to the population at large, which is still only a ~10%er discussion IF the backup is automated to the set it and forget it level.

The pertinent variables of nature of the data (critical, important, secondary), income and manpower motivation, frontside preparation time investment, and recovery time allowable will produce a myriad of backup shemes depending on those variables.

I’ve found out over the years that for the most part, anything that’s not dead blind simple and set it and forget it when it comes to the everyday user, despite the double or triple condition failure state (ok sometimes single condition failure too) pointed to as the “flaw” in “your” scheme and why “my” scheme is so much better, is almost purely an acedemic discussion, or more precisely, will only be implemented by ones and twos. That’s enough for some but almost useless for others.

I can give a good example of that from the last post:

My understanding is that the value in having a separate partition for the swap file is to set a fixed size and avoid having Windows spend resources computing the size of the swap file. An additional important benefit in having the swap in its own partition is that it can be chosen as the first partition on a physical hard drive other than the hard drive the operating system resides on for improved access times.

My main desktop PC has two physical hard drives, and the pagefile is on the second hard drive away from the primary OS. The other chief reason for having a pagefile of a fixed size on a dedicated partition (no other files whatsoever) is that it never becomes fragmented, according to Microsoft. Also, FAT32 has slightly faster read/write times than NTFS (less file system security overhead).

You’re both wrong! Harumphh harumphh!!
If 64-bit and SS drives and L2 cache is going to be good for anything, its to get the heck away from pagefile use on slowly spinning magnetic storage mediums. No pagefile use is a good pagefile! Now that I’ve said it, I’m sure you agree, pagefiles should be dead as a doornail. But they’re not. Why? Many reasons….There’s old shool thinking, new school thinking and then there’s practical application and I maintain that we’re pretty much the only ones that understand that and we are few and it doesn’t even stop us from quibbling…

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I’ve found out over the years that for the most part, anything that’s not dead blind simple and set it and forget it when it comes to the everyday user, despite the double or triple condition failure state (ok sometimes single condition failure too) pointed to as the “flaw” in “your” scheme and why “my” scheme is so much better, is almost purely an acedemic discussion, or more precisely, will only be implemented by ones and twos. That’s enough for some but almost useless for others.

I can give a good example of that from the last post:

You’re both wrong! Harumphh harumphh!!
If 64-bit and SS drives and L2 cache is going to be good for anything, its to get the heck away from pagefile use on slowly spinning magnetic storage mediums. No pagefile use is a good pagefile! Now that I’ve said it, I’m sure you agree, pagefiles should be dead as a doornail. But they’re not. Why? Many reasons….There’s old shool thinking, new school thinking and then there’s practical application and I maintain that we’re pretty much the only ones that understand that and we are few and it doesn’t even stop us from quibbling…

Regardless of the amount of RAM available, consumer versions of Windows WILL use the pagefile. Period. On boot, part of the kernel will be paged. If the pagefile is system managed, it will be resized depending on what apps are launched and what apps are running. But don’t take my word for it. Check your own. I have used a fixed pagefile of 4095MB on a dedicated FAT32 partition since Windows 98. I have never had a “virtual memory” issue of any kind. If it ain’t broke, I don’t try to fix it.

As for my partitioning scheme and backup regimen, I use it because it works. I don’t know how many hard drive failures I’ve had over the years, but I do know that since I have been partitioning and imaging the way I have described, I have been able to recover from all of them without any losses, including the one that happened just last week. That’s good enough for me. I present it on forums like this as an alternative that works. Some people like it. It’s just that simple.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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You’ll not notice but I dropped off the discussion a while back (monitor only) and that’s not because it isn’t interesting but it became a 1%er discussion, not applicable to the population at large, which is still only a ~10%er discussion IF the backup is automated to the set it and forget it level.

The only thing I automate are anti-malware scans. I’ve had to rescue one too many PC’s from worthless automated backups. I also disable System Restore on my machines. Set it and forget it usually also means not checking it, either. I check mine frequently to make sure they will work.

And I wish I had a nickel for everytime I’ve read “System Restore won’t work!”

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Take the “mine” versus “yours” out of this discussion.

My first look at bbearren’s partitioning scheme brought the reaction that it was Wayyy to complicated. I still will not adopt all of it but I will adapt some of it. IF you want to learn, look at everyone’s practices and use what works in YOUR environment.

We end up with something that is much more useful than mine and yours, we end up with something call “ours”.

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My first look at bbearren’s partitioning scheme brought the reaction that it was Wayyy to complicated.

If you think that’s complicated, you should see the way I clean up malware infestations! The third post in that thread has a link to a thread in another forum about the same issues. The experts couldn’t get it done, but then, they were constrained by their expertise. Post #109 in my link is a warning to me (my second) about helping with malware removal, and post #111 is the epitome of an “expert”.

We had to finish my procedures via email to get out from under the watchful eye of the experts, but we got the problems completely resolved, as posts #51 through #58 in the other forum thread confirmed, with no loss of data or settings.

Over the years I’ve run across a number of experts. I just go with what works. In the development of my partitioning scheme and backup regimen, I’ve deliberately wrecked my systems in all sorts of ways and restored them successfully each time. It may seem complicated, but it is deceptively simple, yet quite powerful. And many “experts” swear that there’s no way it can work.

But I put it together out of many ideas from lots of people. It’s not really mine, just a synthesis of good ideas and common sense.

Like you said, “ours”.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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@Byron

it became a 1%er discussion, not applicable to the population at large, which is still only a ~10%er discussion IF the backup is automated to the set it and forget it level

Actually I would say the percentage is much lower than this. There are less then 1 in 1,000 that would try bbearren’s approach to messing with the guts of windows. I only work on a few individual’s computers (most of my work is in the corporate / small business environment) so I will setup or work on maybe 100 stand alone machines a year, however, those 100 are going to benefit from what I have learned here. I have put together somewhat of a partitioning/data backup/imaging scheme that the end users will never understand or even see and I will check periodically with remote software but, when the time comes, it will pull somebody’s bacon out of the fire.

It is not what I would use myself (it involves a second INTERNAL hard drive) but it is a lot better than nothing…

and when I restore from it, my end user will owe a THANK YOU to posters in forums like this for what I have learned.

My point is, most of us here are 10%er’s it is in our power to help the 90%ers if we choose.

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My point is, most of us here are 10%er’s it is in our power to help the 90%ers if we choose.

I choose. I put it out there for any and all to take it or leave it. For the interested, I’m happy to discuss it at length. One of the benefits of my messing with the guts of Windows like I do is that I’ve come across one ot two quirks and warts that I’ve discovered how to finagle into fixing when they break.

I put up my web site so that I could present some things without being censured by moderators or administrators of various forums.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I’m late to this thread – lots of interesting ideas here but I dont think I’ve seen this one:-
(each bullet is a partition)

~ Drive one

[*]OS
[*]Sync/copy of Data from Drive Two

~ Drive two (Data: details not so important)

[*]Page file
[*]Data

~ Third drive (internal or external) or other backup method/s

[*]Backup / Images

the important detail here is that on the OS drive, the remainder of that drive is used to create a copy of my data – this is done once a day evening time – so basically you could say that the OS drive is used solely for the OS.
Since I changed to this setup I hear no frantic seek noises from the hard-drive – except when it’s been read pre-sync – maybe I should put the sync app on drive two (or follow example here and put all apps on drive two!). Lack of seek noise can only be a good thing I think.

Add to that I have a copy/sync of my data (I dont do a mirror sync, but one where nothing gets deleted – unless overwritten). This is in addition to ‘proper’ backups/revisions & off-site backups of data. At some stage the sync partition will fill up but I can get a larger drive then – the OS is supposed to run very fast if on a small partition on a 1TB drive which could be a bonus FWIW

I used think the more partitions the better but am starting to think in terms of:
will this need to be read at the same time as this – then ideally put both on separate drives. I have only started thinking this way & am no whiz-kid at this sort of thing, so I havent made any further steps yet – of course you can only have so many hard-drives too….

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I’m late to this thread – lots of interesting ideas here but I dont think I’ve seen this one:-
(each bullet is a partition)

~ Drive one

[*]OS[*]Sync/copy of Data from Drive Two

~ Drive two (Data: details not so important)

[*]Page file[*]Data

~ Third drive (internal or external) or other backup method/s

[*]Backup / Images

the important detail here is that on the OS drive, the remainder of that drive is used to create a copy of my data – this is done once a day evening time – so basically you could say that the OS drive is used solely for the OS.
Since I changed to this setup I hear no frantic seek noises from the hard-drive – except when it’s been read pre-sync – maybe I should put the sync app on drive two (or follow example here and put all apps on drive two!). Lack of seek noise can only be a good thing I think.

Add to that I have a copy/sync of my data (I dont do a mirror sync, but one where nothing gets deleted – unless overwritten). This is in addition to ‘proper’ backups/revisions & off-site backups of data. At some stage the sync partition will fill up but I can get a larger drive then – the OS is supposed to run very fast if on a small partition on a 1TB drive which could be a bonus FWIW

I used think the more partitions the better but am starting to think in terms of:
will this need to be read at the same time as this – then ideally put both on separate drives. I have only started thinking this way & am no whiz-kid at this sort of thing, so I havent made any further steps yet – of course you can only have so many hard-drives too….

Will it pass this test?

Here’s a quick (or not) exercise for anyone; if you have only one hard drive in your PC, remove it, replace it with a new drive and completely restore your system. Time yourself. If you have two drives, remove your OS drive, replace it with a new drive and completely restore your system. Again, time yourself.

If you rely on an external drive for backup, pronounce it dead for purposes of this exercise, and perform the above.

My point is that you will never know how well your backup regimen works or what flaws it hides until you are forced to depend on it. I have used mine from time to time over the years, I also test it from time to time, and it has evolved into the scheme I use now.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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hi bbearren

I take your point “Will it pass the test” – I’ll have to look closer at that – I’m still digesting the contents of this thread (and your website!)*

=> but I really should have left out all the other (backup) details :
the point I wanted to make and I dont think I made it clearly, is that if you use the OS drive (almost exclusively) for the OS, I suspect the OS will work more efficiently, the drive will last a lot longer, and, if it’s noisy, it will be a lot less noisy. To me, that’s comforting all-round.

The fact I sync my Data-files to the second partition on the OS drive is:
1) so as the space doesnt get wasted
2) a ‘bonus’ backup – a sync from yesterday has come in handy at times

* re “Will it pass the test” – I’ll have to try it out one of the days!
I have restored the system from images successfully a few times now – if it didnt work I would have to re-install which would be a big PIA but I wouldn’t lose any data.
If my data drive fails I have multiple backups of important data – but I am currently going through stuff & checking what’s backed up – my backup regimen is various and has evolved over the years which is dangerous – it could be easy to lose track of something important.

PS I love the idea of having dual-boot, each OS on a different drive – I could have a work OS where I have no browser installed lol. I would not be afraid to go in the deep end, but I’m self taught on computers so at times I dont know things that others (advanced) take for granted. Also that’s got to take time to setup for the first time. I should print out your various directions & take a few notes to help me think things through…

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