Options for controlling updates in Windows 10

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	TOP STORY Options for controlling updates in Windows 10
	By Susan Bradley Win10 Pro and Win10 Pro Version 1511 let everyone push off updates — for weeks or months. Win10 Home users are mostly out of luck, but a couple of options will still let you take some updating control.

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Thanks for this great information.

Re your second to last paragraph (and I agree with your thoughts) but I suspect “control freaks” do not give options, sadly. 😡

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You mention having to pay $99 to upgrade from Win 10 Home to Pro, but there is another quick and relatively easy option if you have an unused Win 7, Win 8 or Win 8.1 Pro product key: http://www.zdnet.com/article/going-pro-how-to-upgrade-windows-10-home-without-hassles/

Last night I used a Win 7 Ultimate product key from a machine I had retired and the whole process took about 15 minutes.

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Right now, I’ve set things up following an earlier path that simply deferred upgrades. I’m assuming that this was for the 8 months mentioned in this article. Time to look.

The biggest issue(s) with deferring upgrades is that many people want to defer them until they have had the time to determine what issues they may create. That time may vary but there does not seem to be a way to tell the Update process that it’s OK to go ahead and upgrade now. Change the policy settings I guess. (Here’s an opportunity for someone to make a little tool to do that)

It would also appear that unless you just stop running updates completely, that sooner or later your software will be upgraded. What a user is supposed to do if an upgrade is known to break something that’s important to them is anyone’s guess.

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I think this whole furor over automatic updates in Win10 is way overblown. I service home and small business users, and I *always* recommend that they accept automatic updates in Win7, 8, or 10. Absolutely none of them have any conceivable idea of what an update even is, much less be able to distinguish a good one from a bad one. Deferring updates on the remote chance that one of them is harmful is much more dangerous than missing out on a critical security update.

Unless you are running a full time IT shop with test machines where you will rigorously test every possible application with every new update that comes along, then deferring the regularly distributed updates is just asking for more trouble. But that’s more business for me, I guess (:^)

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I think this whole furor over automatic updates in Win10 is way overblown. I service home and small business users, and I *always* recommend that they accept automatic updates in Win7, 8, or 10. Absolutely none of them have any conceivable idea of what an update even is, much less be able to distinguish a good one from a bad one. Deferring updates on the remote chance that one of them is harmful is much more dangerous than missing out on a critical security update.

Unless you are running a full time IT shop with test machines where you will rigorously test every possible application with every new update that comes along, then deferring the regularly distributed updates is just asking for more trouble. But that’s more business for me, I guess (:^)

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that several Windows 10 updates seem to have had quite negative consequences for some users. Having always installed updates on my systems and haven’t yet made the jump to Windows 10, I think Microsoft is making it look like its quality standards have lowered significantly (probably because they are said to have fired the people who did quality tests for their software), thus making it quite riskier, as I see it, to embark on an automatic updating strategy.
This lack of quality control is actually more prejudicial to normal users, as power users will have multiple strategies in place to recover from any botched updates.

From what I can see, this is not doing any good to Windows 10 popularity.

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@ruirib, that’s just hearsay, unless you have some specifics that you can cite. I’m no MS fanboy by a long shot, but I have *maybe* seen 1 instance of a bad update causing harm, and that was a long time ago. What I have seen is that a failed installation of one update will block further updates. I supposed you could call that a “negative consequence” but it didn’t show up in application usage. Please have data to support your assertions.

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@ruirib, that’s just hearsay, unless you have some specifics that you can cite. I’m no MS fanboy by a long shot, but I have *maybe* seen 1 instance of a bad update causing harm, and that was a long time ago. What I have seen is that a failed installation of one update will block further updates. I supposed you could call that a “negative consequence” but it didn’t show up in application usage. Please have data to support your assertions.

One issue is that Cumulative Updates have incorporated driver updates. Not Manufacturer supplied drivers in some cases. But even those supplied by manufacturers have caused problem for some of us.

I read about the summer 2015 NVidia Driver fiasco, which caused serious problems for a large number of us who have NVidia graphics or subsystems on our PCs and have upgraded to Windows 10 lately. That bad patch and its revised version were BOTH offered to me via Windows 10 automatic updates when I upgraded to Windows 10 Pro 64-bits on my Toshiba Satellite laptop. Had I not read AskWoody and Susan Bradley’s Windows Secrets Patch Watch columns, I would not have known that pre-emptive actions were needed to avoid a real hardware disaster after my upgrade.

I wanted the rest of the Cumulative Update, but I did NOT want BOTH NVidia drivers — just the more recent one.

So you see the dilemma which automatic updates has presented us with. And this was only the sixth Cumulative Update since the release to the public of Windows 10.

For those interested, I went to the NVidia official download site and searched the available recent drivers. One with a higher version number than the one offered by Microsoft Update was available and seemed safe for my hybrid graphics subsystem, so I downloaded and installed this one, then let MS Updates run again. The two offending NVidia patches were still scheduled for download and installation, but they both failed to install, as they were for a lower version number than the one I had just applied directly from NVidia. Neither patch has ever been reoffered by MS Updates.

That we have to go through such a convoluted process to avoid getting burned by bad patches contained in Cumulative Update patches, shows the weaknesses of the automatic updating process for Windows 10 in stark details. It is not a pretty sight.

I could just set Windows 10 to never apply driver updates, but is this setting respected by Cumulative Updates? Can I get the other necessary components without the driver patches? I am still uncertain about these details, after surviving three Windows patching cycles on two different devices running different Editions of Windows 10 now.

I am sure mine was not an isolated case.

-- rc primak

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on the flipside, I have always, as long as I’ve owned my home computers, deferred updates- and have never had security issues as a result- and deferring the updates has saved me hassle when bad updates were discovered and later fixed The chance that a bad update beign put off until MS has time to fix it doesn’t necessarily mean the user will experience the issues associated with not getting the update- ie- they won’t immediately experience an attack on their computer if they choose not to install that one update and decide to wait till a fix is in- and really, many of us have several lines of defense to prevent attacks anyways- As I’ve said- I’ve never had an issue problem crop up from waiting to install a known bad update- and I’ve been computing for many years now

While autoupdates are fine for the average user (UNLESS an update really [messes] their computer), but for the rest of us we should be given the choice to update or not specific updates for the reasons mentioned in my opinion

Good points Ruirib- windows 10 has been a disaster for some users- and very costly despite ‘being free’

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wlamia: I agree 100%. I have always accepted updates because I didn’t want to miss anything important. I know I have been lucky that I haven’t had an update cause a problem, but I haven’t. I have had customers who refused updates and they have had problems. Unless you are really good at IT work, you wouldn’t know what half the updates even do, let alone decide which ones are important.

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Why have they removed the ability to pick and choose WHICH updates we want? I’m not talking about deferring updates, I mean rather the ability for choosing which updates not to install- There have been many instances of certain windows updates causing massive problems with people’s computers- and savvy users would wait until windows updates were out for a bit before downloading them to make sure there were no problems with the updates- but now apparently we’ve been stripped of this ability? Even with the pro version?

For instance, I’m running windows 7- and I got an update which put an ‘upgrade now to windows 10’ Nag screen on my computer- I found out which update did that- uninstalled that update, and hid it so hopefully it will not reinstall in the future

With windows 10- We’ll apparently have no choice over which updates we want- regardless of whether the update [messes] our computers? And the best we can do is pay $100 more just to be able to delay the inevitable forced updates?

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Why have they removed the ability to pick and choose WHICH updates we want?

It might help to play devils advocate here for a moment because it can help to understand why this is happening. Of course, I can only make a guess here, but it’s a guess based on years of supporting end users. And let me be clear, I’m just exercising my mind here, not advocating on behalf of MS who have made some serious public relations blunders.

First off, it’s important to keep in mind the difference between Updates and Upgrades. Updates are things like security and bug fixes while Upgrades are version changes that may install/change features. There is a mechanism to defer Upgrades (which was the point of this article) but they cannot be put off for ever.

As to why MS has decided to take the approach they have taken, you have to look at this from a tech support POV. The ability of users to pick and choose which updates they apply and which they don’t can create huge problems. It means that every computer can be a unique patchwork quilt of patches – try writing code changes when you don’t know what the target code is. I remember one fix that was rolled out for DOS that broke something and had to be quickly withdrawn and rewritten. It happened because the code assumed that a prior patch had been applied and was dependent on that and many people didn’t because it created a problem for some software of the day.

We have gotten used to the ability to pick and choose pieces of updates/upgrades to apply, but I doubt that iOS permits this and certainly my Andriod devices don’t. Software programs don’t. Windows may be unique in this. Is MS wrong to take the same path?

The problem, of course, is that the Windows community is perhaps a bit less willing to be force fed. It puts me in mind of the spinach my parents tried to force me to eat in the 50’s. For those who didn’t grow up then, you cannot appreciate the horrible frozen blocks of green stuff that’s been cooked to death and doused with vinegar to kill what taste it had can be. Today I like spinach but I like it on my terms – I will never go back to green goo.

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gsmith-plm;1037602]It might help to play devils advocate here for a moment……

I couldn’t have said it as well as you have done. I look at Microsoft as an author who has written this book, with huge departments of bright programmers (and they do get to pick and choose out of thousands who would like to work for them) with even more experienced programmers as their bosses. They have been tasked with the job of producing Windows 10, taking the best of what they have done, adding changes from thousands and thousands of testers and their goal of making it an even bigger success. Yes, like any company they will some mistakes, but it is their “book” and I find it hard to believe that there are many people in these forums who are better at the job than the they are, and who can really rewrite this “book” and come up with a better end result. Most people can only look at the end result and wonder why it doesn’t work the way they want it to work, and criticise it as a bad product, but they don’t know the thought processes that went into it, or even begin to understand it. I frequently see people with flakey hardware, older peripherals and questionable practices who get irate because things don’t go the way they think it should, then blame the OS for all their problems. Yes, I’m sure there are people with legitimate problems and my sympathy goes out to them, but I’ll bet they are not the majority of complainers. If things were as bad as they lead you to believe, I would have seen more problems personally.
As far as privacy issues are concerned, that’s a losing battle that I don’t think is unique to Windows. If anybody wants complete privacy, they should avoid using the internet, unplug and live without it because a lack of privacy is the norm in that world, whether we like it or not.

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gsmith-plm;1037602]It might help to play devils advocate here for a moment……

I couldn’t have said it as well as you have done. I look at Microsoft as an author who has written this book, with huge departments of bright programmers (and they do get to pick and choose out of thousands who would like to work for them) with even more experienced programmers as their bosses. They have been tasked with the job of producing Windows 10, taking the best of what they have done, adding changes from thousands and thousands of testers and their goal of making it an even bigger success. Yes, like any company they will some mistakes, but it is their “book” and I find it hard to believe that there are many people in these forums who are better at the job than the they are, and who can really rewrite this “book” and come up with a better end result. Most people can only look at the end result and wonder why it doesn’t work the way they want it to work, and criticise it as a bad product, but they don’t know the thought processes that went into it, or even begin to understand it. I frequently see people with flakey hardware, older peripherals and questionable practices who get irate because things don’t go the way they think it should, then blame the OS for all their problems. Yes, I’m sure there are people with legitimate problems and my sympathy goes out to them, but I’ll bet they are not the majority of complainers. If things were as bad as they lead you to believe, I would have seen more problems personally.
As far as privacy issues are concerned, that’s a losing battle that I don’t think is unique to Windows. If anybody wants complete privacy, they should avoid using the internet, unplug and live without it because a lack of privacy is the norm in that world, whether we like it or not.

Well, I cannot subscribe to any point of view that states something like: “well they have bright people, so whatever they do, they must have a reason, so I will just accept it”. I refuse to accept that someone knows better than I do how I want to use my computer, how I should update it or how I should waste my time fixing their bugs.

And about the bright people, which they undoubtedly employ, they are as the bright as those the “gave us” Windows Millenium or Windows Vista, or even Windows 8. Are you aware of how the market received these Windows versions? The users are the ones who ultimately decide what they want to use or not. That’s why Vista was a total flop and that’s why Windows 8 was a total flop from an user acceptance point of view.
Do you need any further evidence of how even bright people can come up with systems that fail on the market? Do I even need to remind you that Microsoft, will all their bright people, went from a completely dominant market position to the 3rd player in installed OS numbers? How has that happened, since they are so bright?

I use Microsoft technologies and I quite like them. I have a Lumia Windows Phone (my 4th), a Windows laptop, a Windows desktop, a Xbox. My household sports two other Windows laptops. So what I am not for sure is a Microsoft hater. However, they won’t tell me how i should update my machines. If they try, I simply won’t use their technology if it forces me to do so, while I can avoid it.

Now, be evil’s advocate all you want, but any company that alienates some of their more hardcore users has issues. How serious are those issues’ consequences? Time will tell. Right now, I think they are just keeping the path that led to Windows 8. In what I am concerned, I really like Windows 8 / 8.1. It’s the most stable version I have run (and I started with Windows 1.0). However, even with all this background, I won’t install 10 in my computers. I just don’t accept their choices regarding updates and uninstalling legitimate apps.

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We have gotten used to the ability to pick and choose pieces of updates/upgrades to apply, but I doubt that iOS permits this and certainly my Andriod devices don’t. Software programs don’t. Windows may be unique in this. Is MS wrong to take the same path?

I can control all updates and upgrades to my phone, on a app by app basis.
If I don’t want to update an app, I don’t have to.
(In the future, I’ll be able to update without giving an app all the permissions it requests.)

I understand the need to update by default for all the “less technical” (or whatever) users out there.
There still needs to be a path for more deliberate users.

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I can control all updates and upgrades to my phone, on a app by app basis.

You can control the app updates but not “pieces” of the OS. OS updates are a take it or leave it proposition. If you update the apps but not the OS or vice versa, things may stop working.

I could be wrong, but Windows has been the only OS that could be patched piecemeal.

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For those who didn’t grow up then, you cannot appreciate the horrible frozen blocks of green stuff that’s been cooked to death and doused with vinegar to kill what taste it had can be. Today I like spinach but I like it on my terms – I will never go back to green goo.

D(*&(* you should have experienced the asparagus from a can, compared to that spinach was gourmet food! I remember my mom wondering why I refused to eat asparagus from a can when I loved it from nanna’s garden. :cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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I have a metered internet service, so is there a way that I can set Windows 10 Pro to download and install updates at a specific time like 2:00 am?

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When I go to Network & Internet, I do not see a setting for WI-FI. Only Data usage, VPN, Dial-up, Ethernet, Proxy

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What a user is supposed to do if an upgrade is known to break something that’s important to them is anyone’s guess.

I think at this late stage it goes without saying that one needs to have both their data and OS backed up independently.

That goes for ANY operating system on ANY computer system, be it Linux, MS, or Apple, otherwise you’re just looking for future headache.
If you don’t have a well thought out backup and recovery regimen then your in the realm of amateurishness.

There’s no excuse folks, get on it.

PS
If you’re on a metered connection or you have a very limited bandwidth there are things that one
can easily do about it;

How to Uninstall Windows 10’s Built-in Apps (and How to Reinstall Them)
Disable Windows 10 Spying – Privacy & Security
https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/TweakHound: Windows 10 Privacy Settings
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//173338-Another-quot-all-in-one-quot-Privacy-tool-by?p=1035285#post1035285

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jwoods: I do read the Win 10 forums and yes, I do see people having problems. I do see a lot of negative talk about Windows 10. I really don’t understand why, other than maybe people have problems that ultimately will be something strange they are doing, or something really unique to their situation (like bad hardware). Since Windows 10 was released back in July, I have upgraded somewhere around close to a hundred computers to it. I have had a few driver problems (which I blame on hardware manufacturers not keeping up or not caring whether their older hardware is useable), but usually found an answer. So far I have had zero serious problems to deal with afterwards and all these computers are getting the updates. I can only say that I have to rely on my own experiences, rather than what I have read in the forums. I am not a genius, or even a high level IT guy, just an average service guy. Yes, I have been doing this type of work for about 20 years, so I am reasonably experienced and have a good reputation.

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The problem I have is with Microsoft’s selective designation of “metered” connections.
When traveling, I have various ways of connecting, some of which are expensive and others free.
Unfortunately, MS does not always have a way of specifying that these connections are metered.
And if they won’t let you specify it as metered, you are stuck.

For example, I use a service called Speedify, which is great if you are in a rural area, and have more than one sketchy connection (e.g. cell, wifi).
It lets you combine them into one good connection.
But, Speedigy is set up as a “virtual ethernet” and MS won’t let you set this as “metered”, even though I have to pay for Speedify AND probably at least one of the connections.

Now, if I were able to control updates, I could just wait until the next time I am on free wifi.
Apparently, my only choice with Win10 will be to pay a $99 ransom to MS.
Instead, I will stay on Win 8 (which I dislike) because of this one issue.

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xyloweb: I see your point, yes that would be frustrating. Maybe they will relent and allow control over updates. It sure would make a lot of people happy.

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there’s an article at majorgeeks that discusses a couple of privacy issues with windows 10, but doesn’t give the fixes- not sure if outsuide links are allowed here? If so, if anyone is interested: http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/story/top_five_gripes_about_windows_10.html If links aren’t allowed, please remove- thanks

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thanks, I had found another site that did explain the settings too- but it appears that even if we turn off all tracking/reporting/cortana/ etc Microsoft still tracks what we type in our search results from the start menu and phones that info out to Microsoft it appears- and like someone said, even if we were to be able to hack the registry and turn it completely off, there’s no way of knowing if Microsoft will reinstall the settings again with future update

Microsoft is getting very aggressive about forcing reporting and tracking on us it seems- Going the route of google it looks like- which I don’t use for that reason- Seriously looking at Linux for internet use- but it’s a shame I even have to because Linux is a step backwards- can’t believe MS has become so aggressive about windows 10

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All you need to do is click on the Windows 10 forum here and see the variety of issues people have had with Windows 10 installations and upgrades/updates.

Auto updates in Windows 7/8/8.1 and Windows 10 are apples and oranges comparisons.

In previous versions, it is possible to know what is being updated, so you have a starting point in troubleshooting.

Case in point was the Woody on Windows article on InfoWorld yesterday regarding Cumulative Update 6 and Office 2016.

Had there been detailed information available on what was in CU 6, it probably would have taken less than 5 minutes to see that the Office 2016 update was not included.

That would have saved Ed Bott 4 hours of testing…and saved Woody and Infoworld (and 2 other sites that followed Infoworld’s lead) the embarrasment of a retraction because they relied on reports from the field, and didn’t do 4 hours of testing.

The concept of a “set it and forget it” approach to upgrades and updates looks better on paper than in actual practice.

Thanks, that’s a reply I subscribe without hesitation.

@wlamia,

The difference between you and me is that even when I am not that active posting, I come here everyday, several times a day and I see the problems people face. I also subscribe to a considerable number of tech publications (even from Microsoft), so I am completely informed about the way Microsoft updates have been released lately and some of the concerns expressed in my post have been voiced by other people who are respected voices regarding Windows. This is not even limited to Windows 10 on desktops and laptops, but also involves Windows Phone, which I use since 7.0, and where the full release for existing phones has been delayed for 2016. Care to guess why?

The quality control problem has even manifested itself with the new crown jewels, Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book, plagued by display driver issues and serious hibernation issues that have yet to be solved.

I am a professional developer, working mostly with the Microsoft stack, so I have no particular pleasure in having to publicize theses views, but these are facts. The issues are so relevant, in my opinion, that I may skip 10 entirely. I certainly need the computers I work on to be stable enough to have my work unhindered by a misguided upgrade strategy and bad quality updates, even if I could probably recover from any situation in a few hours, even in a worst case scenario. The simple problem, though, is that I am not paid to solve issues bad updates from Microsoft cause.

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ruirb: “The issues are so relevant, in my opinion, that I may skip 10 entirely.”

I would suggest that if you do that, you should move to a different OS. Based on the trend now, massive numbers of people have switched to Windows 10 already and that will continue at a pretty rapid pace. If you think you can live in the past and still remain relevant in the Windows world, you might be surprised. If you provide product to a very specialized segment of the market, you will get away with it for awhile, but eventually the customer base will press you to deal with it, and stay up to date. If you produce for the general Windows market, you won’t survive long at all, and you will lose that market. You would be better to feed your bad experiences back to Microsoft, and hope they consider your problems to be important enough that they will look at them. I know it’s got to be tough to develop software for a new OS, there are bound to be lots of problems, but it’s up to you whether you want to be part of that world or give up.

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ruirb: I certainly agree with you that Microsoft has made lots of mistakes with past OS, and will continue to do so. I sometimes wonder if some of those huge mistakes were driven by their marketing people who push their opinions downward and expect the people below them to make a success out of a bad plan. Their Windows phone seems to be at an end now, and who knows who’s to fault for that, we can only guess. Yes, it will be the users who decide whether Windows 10 is a success, but not the technically inclined users like yourself, who has to “pull out their hair” to use it, but the general public. I’m not sure about your comment that Windows has slipped to number 3, who is on top?
Anything I have seen shows Windows is still dominant player. Android in sheer numbers is gaining, but it is purely a consumer market provider. Apple is still a minor player overall. Unix even less.
https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0
Anyway, I understand what your complaints are, in a perfect world they wouldn’t exist, but what are the alternatives.

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My main line of work is web development and I still can do it on 7, since the latest Visual Studio versions still run on it. I think a similar situation will occur with several versions of Visual Studio, since I am now running 8.1 in all my computers.

So, the decision to take on 10 or not doesn’t need to occur now. I do hope Microsoft realizes this is a wrong path and will correct it. Until then…

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So, the decision to take on 10 or not doesn’t need to occur now. I do hope Microsoft realizes this is a wrong path and will correct it.

That doesn’t seem likely. My main reason for playing devils advocate was not to support or endorse the course MS is on, rather it was to look at a possible explanation. Regardless of whether you agree with the course or not, there may be a compelling reason why, in a much larger set of objectives, MS has chosen this path.

My take remains that MS is looking at software as a service as the model to follow. It’s not a new model but the way Windows and Office have been distributed up until now make it difficult to adapt. On the other hand, everything they have been doing with Win10 points to the notion of getting everyone to buy into the notion of a monolithic structure where everyone is fed updates on a regular basis and every copy of Windows is like every other copy. And any software that doesn’t keep itself up to date is out of luck.

This is most certainly what major IT departments have been doing for many years now and support costs have dropped as a result. It’s also the same thing we are seeing currently happen with Firefox and the end of add-ons that have not been blessed and signed. It’s also being seen in Windows with out of date certificates. IOW, the wild west days of anything goes are numbered.

As a software developer, I’m not entirely unhappy with the notion. I went through the same battle with a business partner who tried to remain in the DOS world while I bit the bullet and transitioned to Windows. It cost me a lot of time and effort (and a few customers) but in the end he was the one who ended up without the customers.

I really don’t know which way to come down on this. Since I am semi-retired, I’m stuck in the middle. I really don’t want to have to spend a lot of time and effort moving to a new paradigm, but as Granny Weatherwax might have said, “I aintn’t dead yet.”

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That doesn’t seem likely. My main reason for playing devils advocate was not to support or endorse the course MS is on, rather it was to look at a possible explanation. Regardless of whether you agree with the course or not, there may be a compelling reason why, in a much larger set of objectives, MS has chosen this path.

My take remains that MS is looking at software as a service as the model to follow. It’s not a new model but the way Windows and Office have been distributed up until now make it difficult to adapt. On the other hand, everything they have been doing with Win10 points to the notion of getting everyone to buy into the notion of a monolithic structure where everyone is fed updates on a regular basis and every copy of Windows is like every other copy. And any software that doesn’t keep itself up to date is out of luck.

This is most certainly what major IT departments have been doing for many years now and support costs have dropped as a result. It’s also the same thing we are seeing currently happen with Firefox and the end of add-ons that have not been blessed and signed. It’s also being seen in Windows with out of date certificates. IOW, the wild west days of anything goes are numbered.

As a software developer, I’m not entirely unhappy with the notion. I went through the same battle with a business partner who tried to remain in the DOS world while I bit the bullet and transitioned to Windows. It cost me a lot of time and effort (and a few customers) but in the end he was the one who ended up without the customers.

I really don’t know which way to come down on this. Since I am semi-retired, I’m stuck in the middle. I really don’t want to have to spend a lot of time and effort moving to a new paradigm, but as Granny Weatherwax might have said, “I aintn’t dead yet.”

The reason that I disagree with your assessment is simple: power users (or any other name you want to call them) have always been able to customize what they want to get and when and the same happened with businesses. I don’t see why that has to change. I haven’t seen a compelling reason given for that and the same can be said for uninstalling legitimate software.

I am not sure when Windows Updates have started (can it be XP), but we have at least 15 years of customized updates. Even in 10, they can be postponed, albeit for a small period, but that door is opened. It they can be postponed, then the period is just a detail. They can even choose to prevent further updates if certain updates aren’t installed. I couldn’t really care less about it. I want to be able to determine what I allow to happen on my system and when.

I am not foreseeing a reason to move to a different OS, which I could do if I needed to. It may even come to a point where I may have to separate what I use for my personal computing needs and what I use for my professional computing needs. If for business reasons I need to move to Windows 10, there are mechanisms to create a controlled environment where I can run what I need to run.

About Microsoft staying the course, oh well, we could maybe consider the Start menu on 8 and 10? Or the ability to run a tiled interface in just some type of devices, now in 10? I am not saying more control over the updates will happen for sure, but the likelihood that it will happen should not be completely dismissed.

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Android is on top, when you consider “devices”, which is a way to count it. Microsoft itself stated that it wanted to become a devices and services company… Apple is 2nd place, simply because of the iPhone and in a much smaller measure via the iPad. MS comes after them.

Some traffic monitoring companies have adopted the same devices perspective and on browser market share, IE has stopped leading for a long while.

You can say that in the business market, Microsoft still leads. That is true. Don’t discount Unix (or Linux), since it has a place. A considerable number of the servers the internet runs on, use a Linux version, with a market share larger than the multiple Windows Server versions…

We were talking about playing devil’s advocate. Well, count me in. I use nothing but Microsoft technologies (I do own a lousy Android tablet), and yet my feelings are clear about Windows 10, which is really a shame.

What is the alternative? Well, many developers use Apple computers (I don’t like Apple at all and I don’t see myself paying the Apple tax anytime soon). To me, however, the alternative is for Microsoft to realize some of their options are really not the best for their users. I am not holding my breath, but we can always hope :).

P.S.: Just to put things in perspective, this entire afternoon I have been replacing my father in-law HDD by an SSD, then upgrading from XP to Vista, which I will then upgrade to 7 (I still have a few licences hanging around). This to get him rid of XP, while keeping most his stuff working, apps included and give him full benefits from a new 240 GB Crucial SSD.
It will be an interesting exercise. Yesterday I upgraded my oldish desktop HDD to a 500 GB SSD and upgraded 7 to 8 and then 8.1. So, I am fully invested in MS. It’s crazy that they can make me feel I shouldn’t trust them enough with 10 :).

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Android is on top, when you consider “devices”, which is a way to count it. Microsoft itself stated that it wanted to become a devices and services company… Apple is 2nd place, simply because of the iPhone and in a much smaller measure via the iPad. MS comes after them.

Some traffic monitoring companies have adopted the same devices perspective and on browser market share, IE has stopped leading for a long while.

You can say that in the business market, Microsoft still leads. That is true. Don’t discount Unix (or Linux), since it has a place. A considerable number of the servers the internet runs on, use a Linux version, with a market share larger than the multiple Windows Server versions…
:).

Yes, I see your points. Yes, Android, from a device standpoint is on top. Even though I don’t consider tablets and phones real computers which I know they are, but when I want to do any thing serious I go to my desk top computer. In my household I have three Android tablets (plus another waiting for me to repair a cracked screen), one Android phone, one laptop, and three desktops. One tablet is dual boot Win 10 and Android. Two desktops and the laptop are on Win 10 and one desktop is still on Win 7 (hooked to my TV), which will probably be upgraded to Win 10 eventually, but it sometimes can be handy to have an older OS around for test purposes. The tablet did have Win 8 and I couldn’t wait to dump it, so I jumped to Win 10 preview until Win 10 was released. So I guess Android holds a strong position in my household, but I only use it for entertainment, e-mail and light web browsing. I am btw, happy with Win 10 on the dual boot tablet, but don’t use it as much as Android, because it’s use is mostly entertainment and Android apps are either free or very reasonable. I won’t touch IOS because it doesn’t do anything that Android can’t do for my use, and it’s horribly overpriced. Of my customer base (300+), about a a third have moved to Win 10, about 50% are on Win 7 and balance XP and Win 8. In my town there are only a hand full of Macs, a couple Unix machines and tablets/phones are about 70% Android. It’s a small town, so I have a good handle on what is happening here. My town has a high percentage of scientific people because our largest employer is a nuclear research lab, followed by a military base. I know that my town isn’t typical and big cities probably have higher percentage of Apple machines. I am fairly certain that Win 10 is going to be a reasonable success, based on the fact that anybody I have moved to Win 10, has had any complaints. Also, anything new will be Win 10. But that’s just my guess, time will tell.

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Yes, I see your points. Yes, Android, from a device standpoint is on top. Even though I don’t consider tablets and phones real computers which I know they are, but when I want to do any thing serious I go to my desk top computer. In my household I have three Android tablets (plus another waiting for me to repair a cracked screen), one Android phone, one laptop, and three desktops. One tablet is dual boot Win 10 and Android. Two desktops and the laptop are on Win 10 and one desktop is still on Win 7 (hooked to my TV), which will probably be upgraded to Win 10 eventually, but it sometimes can be handy to have an older OS around for test purposes. The tablet did have Win 8 and I couldn’t wait to dump it, so I jumped to Win 10 preview until Win 10 was released. So I guess Android holds a strong position in my household, but I only use it for entertainment, e-mail and light web browsing. I am btw, happy with Win 10 on the dual boot tablet, but don’t use it as much as Android, because it’s use is mostly entertainment and Android apps are either free or very reasonable. I won’t touch IOS because it doesn’t do anything that Android can’t do for my use, and it’s horribly overpriced. Of my customer base (300+), about a a third have moved to Win 10, about 50% are on Win 7 and balance XP and Win 8. In my town there are only a hand full of Macs, a couple Unix machines and tablets/phones are about 70% Android. It’s a small town, so I have a good handle on what is happening here. My town has a high percentage of scientific people because our largest employer is a nuclear research lab, followed by a military base. I know that my town isn’t typical and big cities probably have higher percentage of Apple machines. I am fairly certain that Win 10 is going to be a reasonable success, based on the fact that anybody I have moved to Win 10, has had any complaints. Also, anything new will be Win 10. But that’s just my guess, time will tell.

Well, if I had to classify myself in terms of OS choice, I would definitely say I am a Windows guy (not surprisingly, since this place is Windows Secrets :)). I just wish Microsoft didn’t keep testing my resolve not to go elsewhere. If I ever went elsewhere, it would have to be Linux… but I don’t see that happening soon, either.

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Well, if I had to classify myself in terms of OS choice, I would definitely say I am a Windows guy (not surprisingly, since this place is Windows Secrets :)). I just wish Microsoft didn’t keep testing my resolve not to go elsewhere. If I ever went elsewhere, it would have to be Linux… but I don’t see that happening soon, either.

Its Darwinian; only the STRONG will survive on windows! :o:
:cheers:

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Its Darwinian; only the STRONG will survive on windows! :o:
:cheers:

Have heard others saying only the masochist or the brain dead do…

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Interesting stats on OS market share as of November…

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0&qpsp=202&qpnp=1&qptimeframe=M

The stats I would be interested in are how many Windows 10 installations have been rolled back to previous versions.

Did not find those stats. What were they?

:cheers:

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Paul Thurrott take on Windows Updates:

“More valid are complaints about Microsoft’s policy requiring all Windows 10 users to let Microsoft keep their devices up-to-date. Don’t get me wrong: Keeping all Windows 10 devices up-to-date is an understandable goal, maybe even a need. But Microsoft’s inability to deliver reliable updates is problematic. Until the software giant can assure a Quality of Service (QoS)-type reliability bar on updates, it has no right to demand that we simply accept every update and upgrade it deems to release.”

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Paul Thurrott take on Windows Updates:

“More valid are complaints about Microsoft’s policy requiring all Windows 10 users to let Microsoft keep their devices up-to-date. Don’t get me wrong: Keeping all Windows 10 devices up-to-date is an understandable goal, maybe even a need. But Microsoft’s inability to deliver reliable updates is problematic. Until the software giant can assure a Quality of Service (QoS)-type reliability bar on updates, it has no right to demand that we simply accept every update and upgrade it deems to release.”

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But, with the millions of combinations of hardware, hundreds of thousands of possible software combinations, there will always be problems with some updates. They make the product, they support the product, so yes they have the right to demand that people take the updates (to keep the product on a level playing field). That leaves you with two choices, complain vigorously to Microsoft (not on one of the hundreds of forums) or stop using Windows. My way of thinking is the real answer isn’t giving people the choice as to whether they take updates, but rather they should provide real tech support to all update problems by logging and responding within 24 hours with a log number and then getting back to you with some sort of real solution within a reasonable time. They should also give you a code which you could use to “undo” the update immediately until they come up with a solution. Something like this would make Microsoft responsible for their quality of product.

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It’s all well and good to say the easiest way is to upgrade from Win 10 Home to Professional, after all it’s only $99. While I don’t consider that amount trivial, I might do it if I only had one Win 10 computer. But we have 6 Win 10 computers and tablets at home. No way I’m paying $600.

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But, with the millions of combinations of hardware, hundreds of thousands of possible software combinations, there will always be problems with some updates. They make the product, they support the product, so yes they have the right to demand that people take the updates (to keep the product on a level playing field). That leaves you with two choices, complain vigorously to Microsoft (not on one of the hundreds of forums) or stop using Windows. My way of thinking is the real answer isn’t giving people the choice as to whether they take updates, but rather they should provide real tech support to all update problems by logging and responding within 24 hours with a log number and then getting back to you with some sort of real solution within a reasonable time. They should also give you a code which you could use to “undo” the update immediately until they come up with a solution. Something like this would make Microsoft responsible for their quality of product.

Your reasoning has two flaws, if you allow me to say so.

First, up to now, you always had the choice of applying updates or not. I am quite happy with 8.1 and I do apply updates when I feel I should, not breaking my work cycle to apply them when Microsoft decides so. What is the technical reason for this change from 8.1 to 10? Also, as jwoods correctly pointed out, nothing prevents me to keep using the rock solid Windows 8.1 until the end of extended support, which will come only 7 years from now, on January 10, 2023.

The Windows Secrets Newsletter even had a popular column informing readers of problematic updates and providing guidance on when to apply them. Many users followed this advice and avoided problems by doing so. With Windows 10 updates, even people like Paul Thurrott recognize Microsoft has been unable to provide repeatedly good quality updates. So why do they insist in making them mandatory? It’s senseless.

On the other hand, Microsoft does not offer, as far as I know, free support for all the life cycle of an OS. I don’t think most people are able to get to support forums to get solutions for their computer problems. I don’t think Microsoft has the ability to support everyone who needs support when things break as a consequence of their updates.

The bottom line, however, is that Microsoft cannot make unreasonable demands on their users. It will come back to bite them. They will either get their act together and fix the quality of the updates to Windows 10, or they will be pressured to do so by the users. It’s a pattern they have exhibited before.

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My way of thinking is the real answer isn’t giving people the choice as to whether they take updates, but rather they should provide real tech support to all update problems by logging and responding within 24 hours with a log number and then getting back to you with some sort of real solution within a reasonable time.

And really help with employment in India!

:cheers:

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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… My way of thinking is the real answer isn’t giving people the choice as to whether they take updates, but rather they should provide real tech support to all update problems by logging and responding within 24 hours with a log number and then getting back to you with some sort of real solution within a reasonable time. They should also give you a code which you could use to “undo” the update immediately until they come up with a solution. Something like this would make Microsoft responsible for their quality of product.

Such support is available for free if you are lucky enough to live close to a Microsoft Retail Store. I do, and I had a nasty Windows Store App updating disaster. Wrecked the entire Windows Store Manifest, among other issues.

Since this was an Updating Issue according to the Store Technicians, they were willing to fix my tablet and get it up and running and fully updated, for free. They waived their normal $49.00 service fee, and when the tablet was returned with a clean reinstall of Windows 10, I used their in-store broadband Internet Service to reinstall my desktop applications and get them up to date. (A few app downloads were blocked, but those I did at home later.) Unbeknownst to me, they even upgraded the tablet from Windows 10 Home to Windows 10 Pro when they did the clean install. All for free, and with less than a two-hour gap between the initial disaster and the first in-store appointment to assess the damages. Two days to do the service, ending on Christmas Eve.

So, technical assistance is available from live people right here in the USA, if you live near a bricks and mortar Microsoft Store. If it’s a patching issue, you can get at least some sort of a solution within about three days of the initial appointment, if you agree to how the repairs will be done.

A Clean Reinstall was the fourth step the technicians took, not the first. The lesser Store Reset, Refresh, and Reset options didn’t solve the problem. That’s the only reason I had to rescue my data and let them reinstall the OS.

Having said all that, I still consider the best defence against any updates disasters is to have three kinds of recovery options, all kept up to date, at hand at all times, preferably thoroughly tested:

1) current data backups, whatever your method, either in the Cloud or locally. Preferably both.

2) once weekly or every two weeks, System Image Backups. Especially for GPT, Fast Boot or WIMBoot devices, make sure beyond all doubt that your recovery software handles these newer types of disk and boot configurations. Learned that the hard way with EaseUs ToDo before they recently improved their product. (I now use Macrium Reflect Free with its WinPE 10 environment available on USB and for the older laptop, CD media.) Store multiple copies on independent drives.

3) have the “nuclear option” available when all else fails. Use the Media Creation Tool (MCT) and download and create USB and/or DVD install media, and make sure you know how to get them to boot on your device.

This is the same advice (with additional tools suggested) which Fred Langa and all the experts in The Lounge have been offering for years. With Windows 10 forced updates and non-transparent updates descriptions lately, this advice should be taken even more seriously now by all Windows 10 users. Voice of experience here!

-- rc primak

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+1
:cheers:

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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I think there are more than two choices…

How about using Windows 7/8/8.1 until the end of extended support, then buy a new machine with whatever incarnation of Windows exists at that time.

Not unheard of, since everyone did not upgrade to Vista or Windows 8, and lived to tell the tale.

Yes, I should have said “stop using Windows 10”. BTW, I understand Win 8 support ends next summer, but Win 7 until 2020. Of course if you need a new machine now, you would have to purchase a copy of Win 7. Also, it will only be the serious Techies will refuse to use Win 10, I know many people still on Vista, they just lived through the problems and continued with it. Most casual users will continue to use Win 10, as will I, as I have had no problems with it (so far).

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For any who haven’t been there or don’t know about it, there’s a lot of late breaking related info. on Woody’s website (askwoody.com). I check it daily.

I hope recommending this website is allowed. If not just delete or edit this message.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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