One last question before death of XP

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When I built computer and installed XP Pro 32bit many years ago, I was able to run 16 bit stuff left over from my Win 95
machine; but all-of-a-sudden one day the 16 bit software quit running? From that point on, I had to use a DosBox. I always thought that a Microsoft Update caused this. Can anyone shed any light on THIS? OR know what KB? Although
I have other machines with Win7 and more than likely will upgrade to Win10; I’m thinking of doing something with the
XP box that might make it go back to running 16 bit stuff. I’m thinking that just reinstalling XP [no online useage] with no
updates might just do the job. Your comments?

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The reinstall sounds like a good idea.
Once you do that, make an image of the OS.
Then you can start installing stuff, while at the same time checking your 16 bit app compatibility and imaging prior to installs as needed.

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You could run XP box in a VM on your existing system, then you can easily muck around with it, limit its access to the internet etc.

cheers, Paul

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I use 16-bit apps in XP with no trouble (well, with one exception – a game, and it took a bit of tweaking). I’ve all the updates. They run in a dos box anyway, called the NTVDM.

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death of xp ???????????

I am still running 98se

xp will be here for a long time yet

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death of xp ???????????

I am still running 98se

xp will be here for a long time yet

I still have a Win98 VM too to run UNO since that game CD just doesn’t work in XP or higher OSs. 🙂

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death of xp ???????????

I am still running 98se

xp will be here for a long time yet

True dat!

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Glad to see I’m not the only one still using 98.

I have two to 98 SE systems, one typical, and one all digital running Win 98 SE embedded with no need for a internal hard drive.

Some programs just won’t run on anything newer and are too slow on an emulator.

As for XP, it will be around long after Microsoft at the rate they are going.

death of xp ???????????

I am still running 98se

xp will be here for a long time yet

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Glad to see I’m not the only one still using 98.

I have two to 98 SE systems, one typical, and one all digital running Win 98 SE embedded with no need for a internal hard drive.

Some programs just won’t run on anything newer and are too slow on an emulator.

As for XP, it will be around long after Microsoft at the rate they are going.

I have over ten running PC’s, and two of them still run XP, very well, as a matter of fact.
I turned off Auto Updates years ago, when updates from MS were trashing PC’s all over the place.
Windows 98 is gone now, but I do still have one Windows ME PC.
Old is not always bad. Heck, I’m 72 and I’m just fine. lol

Cheers Mates!
The Doctor 😎

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Still got an original boxed set of 3.5″ Floppy, MS Win 3.1 ( with DOS 6).
One day I’ll get around to it to finding out how to burn it onto a CD, ( or USB stick) so it’s a seamless Format C and install, just to preserve the floppy disk set if nothing more.

Anyone know where there are instructions to try this out ?

Thanks

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Still got an original boxed set of 3.5″ Floppy, MS Win 3.1 ( with DOS 6).
One day I’ll get around to it to finding out how to burn it onto a CD, ( or USB stick) so it’s a seamless Format C and install, just to preserve the floppy disk set if nothing more.

Anyone know where there are instructions to try this out ?

Thanks

I tried to do that and found the stumbling block was the coding in the disks that prompted to insert the next disk, not being a programmer I couldn’t find a way around that. Possibly involved is the Label on each disk, the naming for identification. What I use for archiving floppies is a program called WinImage, saves a file similar to what CD Burning programs do with .iso images of CDs and DVDs.
http://www.winimage.com/

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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I suspect there are not very many non 64 bit version of W8 and probably won’t be any W10 so XP may be your only option for running 16 bit software.

cheers, Paul

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I’ve been told that the IRS still uses Win XP, and I still see it on the computers at the branch of my bank. My doctor just switched to Win 7 but my dentist still uses XP. So off hand I’d say that XP is definitely not dead.
Older 16 bit programs and games work the best on Win 95 or Win 98 with SoundBlaster audio and older graphics cards. I have an old Win 98 machine that I use mainly for old 16 bit and some 32 bit games.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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This is not a debatable topic… any use of XP should stop.

It is debatable, but any such debate is futile, so I’m not going to enter one. I’ll just say that I wouldn’t presume to tell people to throw away things they like and leave it at that.

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If you stay off of the Internet you can use Win XP for programs that suit your needs and/or entertainment. Being limited to IE 8 and no updates now makes it very risky doing anything on the Internet. Businesses should not be running XP machines hooked up to networks with Internet access. I didn’t mean to imply that, it’s asking for trouble. My wife and I both still have our old XP laptops that we use for things other than email or Web surfing. We’ve got a much newer and faster computer for that, and it has Win 7 on it.

Being 20 something in the 70's was far more fun than being 70 something in the insane 20's

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OMG!

Ooops, did I say that out loud.

I hope not because if the XP Zombies heard you they will be coming for your brain. :flee:

:cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Both 8.1 & 10 are available in either 64 or 32.

Cheers,
Drew

Right. But then so was Win7, WinVista, and WinXP Professional [not Home]. I have a copy of WinXP Pro 64-bit but by the time I had 64-bit hardware available I had a need for 64-bit Vista on it. The availability of WinXP Pro 64-bit was a lot like Win95B and Win95C support for FAT32 which seemed to be only available from the OEMs, never could find it as an upgrade or retail version. I got the feeling Microsoft didn’t want to handle the problem, let the OEMs take care of them on their hardware.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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I can say that many Institutions are still using XP. Banks and Hospital Boards & many many businesses. They pay for their MS Patches and Updates as was offered by MS at a price. The charge for these continued Updates and Patches would be a non-event for the Home user. As most AV Brands are due to cease Updates to their software for XP users in 2016 – the clock is ticking. Those who moved with the times will get FREE Upgrade to W10 from W7/8.1 so if you didn’t dump XP/Vista or earlier versions of Windows when you do need to make the change, it will need new machines (Hardware) to handle W10.

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Those who moved with the times will get FREE Upgrade to W10 from W7/8.1 so if you didn’t dump XP/Vista or earlier versions of Windows when you do need to make the change, it will need new machines (Hardware) to handle W10.

Maybe, maybe not. I’m running Win10TP on a Dell Inspiron 530S SFF that came with Vista some 7 or so years ago, 64-bit 2.2GHz CPU with 4GB RAM, works quite nicely. Also have it on a 4-5 year old Dell Inspiron N5010 Notebook that came with Win7, rehabbed them instead of junking.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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Maybe, maybe not. I’m running Win10TP on a Dell Inspiron 530S SFF that came with Vista some 7 or so years ago, 64-bit 2.2GHz CPU with 4GB RAM, works quite nicely. Also have it on a 4-5 year old Dell Inspiron N5010 Notebook that came with Win7, rehabbed them instead of junking.

Now that’s some good news. One thing I dread is the junking of perfectly decent hardware for “the latest OS”. As I understand things, Win 10 is supposed to be a much less cluttered OS, particularly compared to Win 8. I suspect that M$ has discovered that a patch to something patched repeatedly makes maintenance difficult. At one time, a disassembly of Format showed support for 180kB floppies still in the code. That support goes back a very long time.

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As you note, there still are Institutional users. The Navy just extended a contract for XP support to 2017 because of mission critical usage. I do understand there are ways to tap into those updates. M$ could hardly offer them to the public because nobody would upgrade.

The upgrades are not creating a new demand thus resulting in a remarkable decrease in desktop sales because users find no compelling reason for new machines. Even tablet sales have dropped off for much the same reason. Many users can get most of their needs met with a phone. Eventually, there may also be little need to get the latest phone. Lord knows what Apple will do then…

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As you note, there still are Institutional users. The Navy just extended a contract for XP support to 2017 because of mission critical usage. I do understand there are ways to tap into those updates. M$ could hardly offer them to the public because nobody would upgrade.

The upgrades are not creating a new demand thus resulting in a remarkable decrease in desktop sales because users find no compelling reason for new machines. Even tablet sales have dropped off for much the same reason. Many users can get most of their needs met with a phone. Eventually, there may also be little need to get the latest phone. Lord knows what Apple will do then…

Maybe what happened about 18 years ago redux?
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bill+gates+buys+apple+stock+1997

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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Right. But then so was Win7, WinVista, and WinXP Professional [not Home]. I have a copy of WinXP Pro 64-bit but by the time I had 64-bit hardware available I had a need for 64-bit Vista on it. The availability of WinXP Pro 64-bit was a lot like Win95B and Win95C support for FAT32 which seemed to be only available from the OEMs, never could find it as an upgrade or retail version. I got the feeling Microsoft didn’t want to handle the problem, let the OEMs take care of them on their hardware.

FYI – There were TWO versions of 64bit WinXP Pro, Berton. One called Windows XP 64-bit edition for Intel Itanium processors (though I wanted to call that one Windows XP Itanium edition or IA64 edition) and the other Windows XP X64 Edition. The X64 edition of XP Pro was based on the Windows Server 2003 Kernel Code base as that one was identified as NT version 5.2.3790.

I know cuz I’m using XP x64 edition on a custom built PC with an Intel D101GGC board and in the D101GGC board product guide I downloaded from the Intel web site, Windows XP Professional X64 Edition is listed as one of the supported OSes.
I’m also using an Intel Pentium D 945 (a dual-core) CPU on there with 2GB of RAM. when I did a fresh install of XP x64, it was setup as an “ACPI x64 Multiprocessor based machine”

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FYI – There were TWO versions of 64bit WinXP Pro, Berton. One called Windows XP 64-bit edition for Intel Itanium processors (though I wanted to call that one Windows XP Itanium edition or IA64 edition) and the other Windows XP X64 Edition. The X64 edition of XP Pro was based on the Windows Server 2003 Kernel Code base as that one was identified as NT version 5.2.3790.

True but I didn’t necessarily want to go into as much detail.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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Just to clarify…

Besides the wee joke about paperweights & doorstops, the point here is, sure, use XP just, NOT ON THE NET!!

And, btw, some places one happens to see it, still, being used, it is only being used internally & NOT connected to the Net, (hopefully).

Maybe, connecting it should be made illegal since it is much like having unprotected sex while carrying HIV or possibly some other ‘germ’ that can be spread all over the place and infect others, as well as yourself.

Cheers,
Drew

Why not; if you protect your system robustly, WinXP works fine online. Typing this message to you now in my XP VM which I regular recovery so often to a gold point that so far, in many respects, it’s safer then my Host OS is. 🙂

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Again, I know XP isn’t the most secured OS in the business Drew. That’s why I protect it using various virtualization techniques (double-sandboxed). Yes, I still have a possible vulnerability with key-loggers (my only vulnerability by the way), but when I separate all my browsers depending upon task (banking, general browsing, email) as well as the OS itself (via virtualization techniques, not to mention completely disabled remote desktop services, it will require a very savvy person to target my system. Yes, it can be done, but most folk would rather steal money from much easier targets then mine. 🙂

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Enough please Drew, 7 replies and variations thereof, when the OP clearly states ” [no online useage] “.

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….anyway, XP can normally run most 16-bit programs under command.com (the virtual machine that comes with XP), but often they need to be full-screen (Alt+Enter) if they’re DOS apps rather than Windows apps. Have you tried that, OP? You might also need to use the commands dosx for protected mode and mscdexnt for CDROM extensions.

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It is my understanding that 64-bit versions of Win 7 and later cannot run 16-bit DOS applications but that 32-bit versions can. Of course, certain applications might not run correctly even under XP.

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While XP may be dead in one sense it’s still alive and in use. My father is 89 and uses an XP machine. He uses it for solitaire and email only. The last time his computer died I put Windows 7 on the new machine. No outlook express any more so I set up Thunderbird. It was just enough different he couldn’t figure it out, I kept getting calls every couple days asking how do I do this. I eventually put XP back on his machine with outlook express transferred all his emails and he is happy. He still lives in his own home and other than the fact computer technology has outpaced him he is fine. I suspect there are many others out there in the same boat. To many menus and sub menus to keep up. I’ll keep my windows 7 until I am forced to change. Every time I have upgraded I found one or two programs I used all the time didn’t work any more so I was forced to find a replacement. If it’s not software that won’t work it’s hardware. When I upgraded to windows 7 my printer and scanner would not work with it so more money wasted and hardware into the landfill.

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It is my understanding that 64-bit versions of Win 7 and later cannot run 16-bit DOS applications but that 32-bit versions can

I’ve tried a few 16-bit programs [not marked as such so could only try] and also find it’s the 64-bit version of hardware and Windows that is the problem. I currently don’t have anything with a 32-bit version of Win7 and later installed, probably should for some testing.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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While XP may be dead in one sense it’s still alive and in use. My father is 89 and uses an XP machine. He uses it for solitaire and email only. The last time his computer died I put Windows 7 on the new machine. No outlook express any more so I set up Thunderbird. It was just enough different he couldn’t figure it out, I kept getting calls every couple days asking how do I do this. I eventually put XP back on his machine with outlook express transferred all his emails and he is happy. He still lives in his own home and other than the fact computer technology has outpaced him he is fine. I suspect there are many others out there in the same boat. To many menus and sub menus to keep up. I’ll keep my windows 7 until I am forced to change. Every time I have upgraded I found one or two programs I used all the time didn’t work any more so I was forced to find a replacement. If it’s not software that won’t work it’s hardware. When I upgraded to windows 7 my printer and scanner would not work with it so more money wasted and hardware into the landfill.

Now well into my 70s, I still find XP to be just fine too. I have many of the usual, and not so usual, safeguards in place and, having started with DOS, I am somewhat computer savvy, and have found no problems with using XP, to date …. the key is staying away from dodgy sites, deleting unwanted e-mail(and those include the ubiquitous phishing attempts), using any media from an unknown source without at first scanning it, and generally staying on top of what’s going on in my PC along with cloning my 80GB C: to an identical 80GB D: drive, running ERUNT on automatic setting, etc, etc.

I have no plans to “change” until I absolutely have to ….. and by what I see and know, that may be longer than I’m going to be around and pecking at this keyboard.

Cheers,

Roger

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Can always dig even further back and run Win98 in a VM; I do that to to run UNO since that game just doesn’t work happy in XP for me. Virtualbox is still free for personal use so why not. Only OS I don’t have disks for but wish I did are Win3.1 and DOX 6.1. I believe there is a project called DOSBox that would work in a VM and run your non-Windows DOS apps should you need too. For 16-bit Windows apps that won’t work in Win98, the only option may be to dig for a Win3.1 OS disks and hope you can still install it in a virtual machine. 🙂

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Only OS I don’t have disks for but wish I did are Win3.1 and DOX 6.1

Just was looking through some floppies and still have Windows 3.11, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and MS-DOS 6.22 and have the floppies imaged in a little program called WinImage for creating new copies. Also have a Notebook/Laptop with Windows 98 [recently given to me] and another with MS-DOS and Win3.1. Batteries are dead but the AC adapters still work. Considered putting the Windows floppies on a CD but due to little bit of different coding on each one it wouldn’t have worked.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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Just was looking through some floppies and still have Windows 3.11, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and MS-DOS 6.22 and have the floppies imaged in a little program called WinImage for creating new copies. Also have a Notebook/Laptop with Windows 98 [recently given to me] and another with MS-DOS and Win3.1. Batteries are dead but the AC adapters still work. Considered putting the Windows floppies on a CD but due to little bit of different coding on each one it wouldn’t have worked.

I’ve toyed with a floppy image program and mounting those images in the past; again, just wish I had Win3.1 to toy with. lol

CDs are definitely better though, but, of course, the original installers for both DOS 6.2x (memory was bad; it was 6.22 I was thinking; lol) and Win 3.1 didn’t have a CD installer. lol

🙂

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Anyone know where there are instructions to try this out ?

Thanks

I don’t have instructions but you could fool around w/ making directories for each floppy contents on the cd then using the Subst command .

SUBST [drive1: [drive2:]path]
SUBST drive1: /D

drive1: Specifies a virtual drive to which you want to assign a path.
[drive2:]path Specifies a physical drive and path you want to assign to
a virtual drive.
/D Deletes a substituted (virtual) drive.

Good luck ??

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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You are an “IT Pro”. So am I.

I disagree with, pretty much, everything you said.

You seem to have bought into all the fear mongering nonsense that MS and the AV companies have been putting out since the PC was invented.

Just because there is a fire somewhere doesn’t mean we all have to wear asbestos underwear.

All that’s needed to be secure in home and smallish businesses are:
– good av software, updated often
– a firewall, either software or hardware. A router will do fine if set up correctly, which is easy enough for Windows Secrets readers.

and most importantly

– educated users. They don’t have to be geeks, just reasonably careful.

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The Navy just extended a contract for XP support to 2017 because of mission critical usage.

That’s a bit frightening. You’d think they’d be better off with even Linux.

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nope

change is the problem
programs rewritten
debugged
user training
new support infrastructure

far better to keep what you have and know and that is solid than to make changes

That’s a bit frightening. You’d think they’d be better off with even Linux.

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Something just for you, Clint 😀

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drew1903

there are plenty of reasons to stay with xp

and it will be running for a long long time

currently still 40% Of users have xp boxes

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drew1903

there are plenty of reasons to stay with xp

and it will be running for a long long time

currently still 40% Of users have xp boxes

Not sure where you got that number. While I have defended continued use of XP, April stats from Net Applications show a 17% share while Stat counter estimates it at 11%:
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2015/04/08/windows-xp-usage.aspx

XP share is probably even less now.

Jerry

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“The rumors of XP’s demise are greatly exaggerated.”

XP will NOT die.Just keep it away from “The Cloud”.
Am currently struggling with learning Linux Mint, but I’ll not abandon my non-line XP system. It just makes too much sense and is easy to use operationally. Although I’m always leaning more and more about it.

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Yeah, I keep waiting for one of those true type font exploits to get me or sumpthin’ but so far nada, nada and nada. Almost 14 years now since RTM, still proving its the user, not the OS. I’ll keep trying with the big and clunky U.I.s and the weak and single purpose apps, interstitial security blocks, “cannot use network location” messages and ever decreasing U.I. customization options, but it’s not looking good, pun intended.

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Yeah, I keep waiting for one of those true type font exploits to get me or sumpthin’ but so far nada, nada and nada. Almost 14 years now since RTM, still proving its the user, not the OS. I’ll keep trying with the big and clunky U.I.s and the weak and single purpose apps, interstitial security blocks, “cannot use network location” messages and ever decreasing U.I. customization options, but it’s not looking good, pun intended.

.

Yeah, I keep waiting for one of those true type font exploits to get me or sumpthin’ but so far nada, nada and nada. Almost 14 years now since RTM, still proving its the user, not the OS. I’ll keep trying with the big and clunky U.I.s and the weak and single purpose apps, interstitial security blocks, “cannot use network location” messages and ever decreasing U.I. customization options, but it’s not looking good, pun intended.

I began my Windows oddyssey in 1991 with W3.0/DOS5, after a bit of work with military mainframes (Harris s-120, IBM 7090, Univac MTC and the dreaded Data General Nova w3/12 Mini).

Then I went to work at Martin-Marietta at VAFB where there was some sort of 386 in our shop. My experience with it consisted of using the Solitaire app, which I figured MS’s putting it into Windows was a smart ploy, as it bolstered home sales where budding PC Zombies had to have it at home.

When I was laid off two years later I went full-time on my electrical contractor’s license. I needed a computer to run an excellent DOS estimating program. So I bought a Packard Bell 386 SX-20 POS which came with a whopping 2MB 0f ram, at Cosco. Any operations while using the DOS apps yielded instantaneous results. But its Windows capabilities consisted of only the experience of learning about PC/Windows operations and usage (when not waiting for the hourglass on the screen to release its death grip on the machine.)

So it has been a long and winding road dealing with Windows. But as its format has taken the left turns away from the very logical functionality and relatively user friendly layout of XP I have developed an increasing dislike of it.

I realize that what they do “Under The Hood” as time passes is necessary, and don’t give a rat’s about what, where, when, how, or why about whatever it is that goes on in there. But the steady movement into more pain-in-the-@ssednessand morbidly obese software blotiage makes little sense to me and I just don’t have the emotional resilience any more to deal with all of that.

BTW, Would anyone like to know how I REALLY fell about the subject?

Regards all, -PP-

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I’m using XP till the cows come home, to. There are no security issues as far banking and personal stuff, I do all my banking at the counter the old_way_new_again_way, type of thing.
However, the reality is, acceptance of the criminal factor and like drew reiterated, XP users with a care less attitude about internet security or naive users, ( many I know personally that have their computers littered with junk, absolute junk from surfing add laden web sites and clik on anything that blink, it can a fresh install of ccleaner 20 minutes to flush out their system, on one occasion the pc froze, and had to be re-booted, and 3 cups of coffee later), well these type I have no sympathy.
Sure, my sceenname, I wish I could change it later on and still retain my identity, I’ll figure it out somehow when the time suits.
But, rappin on here, I am savvy just enough to realize I need to start learning stuff outside of MS products to continue this project of mine, ( it’s a one off btw and I cannot thank WS enough). So far I been putting my foot in the door with Python, and now there is phantomjs.exe where VBA won’t or can’t get into web based activities etc. All these are coming to the fore and open source, ( although I find it difficult in that community when they suggest and suggest and imply the old cliche, RTFM, manuals make no sense, for some of us it is “see it work, follow the code line by line and soon the penny drops”. We are not less or more, I have a trade and some of the higher academics have problem with some of the simplest checks on their cars some times, ” where is the dip stick for the auto-trans, what does it say, what does it mean and and” and stuff I knew when I was 12 !
So we adapt and accept and I agree with drew on the security thing, that I don’t take for granted, and one won’t if they have had an experience with being hacked, by family mind you, and exposed personal gossip.
Once one has that experience, then what the experts in IT security have to say, for me at least, I listen.
What I do about it, that’s another story, but be aware is all I can say and XP is numbered, it’s days are numbered, it’s “low on oil” !

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Not if the changes are an improvement or have good rational to them… then it is better than being closed-minded & staying stuck in the past or w/ the past.

How about being stuck in a fantasy future? Blue pill or RED Pill ???

:cool::flee:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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That made me laugh.

It’s as good a rhetoric as any I could think of. I go by disgruntled factor and 8.1 went screaming right into the red zone. XP barely budges the needle, as does Win 7 32bit; there’s a bit of a jump up with Win 7 64 bit, both of those systems I have disgruntle me now and then but the RAM is desirable; so I put up with them. Win 10 is still very much in the rough gem stage, if it indeed becomes a polished gem, no disgruntle factor assigned because it wouldn’t be fair to judge an unpolished gem.

Among other things, I have a tiny movie camera I mount to my helmet that records in 1080P, and I have a carbon fiber wonderbike from 2014, haven’t broken out the VHS shoulder breaker for two decades or more and haven’t bothered to fix up the 1975 steel is real [rusty] and heavy banana seat bike.

So am I close-minded or do I have a lively discretionary mind (until the alzheimer’s kicks in)? Just wondering.

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Depends whether the carbon model has electric shift or not.

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One thing I should have mentioned in making the CD/s is making them DOS-bootable and having drivers for the disc drive. Several years ago I actually found a method/program to turn a WinME boot floppy into a CD-R but don’t have the process I used at hand, may have lost it. But I still have the disc.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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I remember Nero could use a floppy image to boot to, I had to d/ it from somewhere (which makes me leary these days) maybe Bart’s .

There are DOS clones available that may fulfill any need…

:cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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