Offsite backups without high-speed Internet possible?

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My “high speed” DSL line is 700-something KBS and has been that way since they first offered DSL and that was considered high speed. In reality it’s a lot, lot slower. I’ve got off-site unlimited backup thru the company that built my desktop. It’s at the other end of the city and on private property for $90/year. It takes more than a week to do a complete backup, and that’s with the computer on 24/7. And that’s backing up less than 1/4 terrabyte of data (the stuff I feel has to be backed up off site). The daily incrementals can take an hour.

I can get higher speeds with Comcast but I won’t go that route because their cheap internet is dependent on you getting TV, phone, etc.

Is satelite worth it?

Suggestions? Options? Legal recourse for a phone company that advertises double or triple that speed to new users and then can’t give it to folks well inside the city limits (I’m about 5 miles from downtown) who’ve been with them for years? They say the lines can’t handle more than that and they will upgrade the whole city to fiberoptics–eventually. (They’ve been saying that for 5 years.)

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Satellite would be even worse believe it or not, far worse. Backing up online depends on your upload speed, not download speed and that is almost always much slower than the upload bandwidth. Being so far from a upgraded switching station (probably), you are unlikely to get much more speed than that.
We’re only about 2 miles from a station and were recently upgraded to about 700 kilobits, up from a previous 375, which means we can backup at almost twice the speed…about 2.5 gigs a day now I think while leaving a little bandwidth for other Internet operations.
We get about 3 megabit/s download but that doesn’t mean anything when backing up online.

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I didn’t know satellite was slower than good DSL; thanks for letting me know. Dish certainly doesn’t want you to know that! As for how far I am from a switching station, the phone company won’t say. It’s not Verizon; it’s CenturyLink. I got DSL way back when it was Qwest.net and have stayed with it.

So when companies try to sell individuals (not major companies) on backing up to the cloud, what are their assumptions as far as what kind of internet connection you have?

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I didn’t know satellite was slower than good DSL; thanks for letting me know. Dish certainly doesn’t want you to know that! As for how far I am from a switching station, the phone company won’t say. It’s not Verizon; it’s CenturyLink. I got DSL way back when it was Qwest.net and have stayed with it.

So when companies try to sell individuals (not major companies) on backing up to the cloud, what are their assumptions as far as what kind of internet connection you have?

I would suggest mixed strategy that takes into account the fact that your internet connection speed is a limiting factor, so don’t use the cloud for full backups. Instead I would recommend using local disk based backup for full system images, ensuring that you have a local ability to restore your system to a working condition and use the cloud to store just your data files, the ones which you could possibly not do without. The cloud based data files backup will be used when your local means of restoration fail,for some reason.

There could be variations to such a layered backup strategy, both with rotating local disks, periodic data only local backup and using the cloud in the described manner. As to the use of cloud for backup, it’s perfectly possible to use the cloud in a safe way, using encryption and choosing a provider that offers as much guarantee as one could possible wish for. What really matters is that all your eggs are not in a single place and make sure that they are in enough places that no single or even double failure will leave you without your data.

The cloud is a disruptive technology, that is changing the landscape of corporate and private IT scenario. Disruptive technologies are always challenging and there is a known cycle of dismissal usually associated with derision, that often ends with mass adoption and after some time, it’s almost like such technologies are indispensable. I believe that will happen with the cloud, which is already present in some ways we don’t even realize.

I am currently reading a biography of Sir Keith Park, a RAF Air Marshall frequently known as the “Defender of London” because of his pivotal role in implementing the strategy against the Luftwafe, during the Battle of Britain. He started as an artillery soldier, then officer, during World War I. At the time, aircraft were starting to be used in war and one of the ways they were first used was to obtain an overview of the enemy’s positions, so that artillery fire could be better directed to inflict maximum damage. Being the artillery officer soon to become airman, it was obvious to him that such usage would be the future. At the beginning, he was rather isolated in his views, which were even met with derision by his fellow officers. Well, I guess we know how that ended…
I view the cloud pretty much in a similar way. Even with derision and denial, the cloud is already a most relevant technology, which will become a lot more pervasive in the coming years. Each one of us can use it or not, but it’s here to stay and it can be used in effective and reasonable ways. It has risks, as any other technologies do, but those can be balanced by a reasonable choice of providers, apps and associated technologies.

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I would suggest mixed strategy that takes into account the fact that your internet connection speed is a limiting factor, so don’t use the cloud for full backups. Instead I would recommend using local disk based backup for full system images, ensuring that you have a local ability to restore your system to a working condition and use the cloud to store just your data files, the ones which you could possibly not do without. The cloud based data files backup will be used when your local means of restoration fail,for some reason.

There could be variations to such a layered backup strategy, both with rotating local disks, periodic data only local backup and using the cloud in the described manner. As to the use of cloud for backup, it’s perfectly possible to use the cloud in a safe way, using encryption and choosing a provider that offers as much guarantee as one could possible wish for. What really matters is that all your eggs are not in a single place and make sure that they are in enough places that no single or even double failure will leave you without your data.

The cloud is a disruptive technology, that is changing the landscape of corporate and private IT scenario. Disruptive technologies are always challenging and there is a known cycle of dismissal usually associated with derision, that often ends with mass adoption and after some time, it’s almost like such technologies are indispensable. I believe that will happen with the cloud, which is already present in some ways we don’t even realize.

I am currently reading a biography of Sir Keith Park, a RAF Air Marshall frequently known as the “Defender of London” because of his pivotal role in implementing the strategy against the Luftwafe, during the Battle of Britain. He started as an artillery soldier, then officer, during World War I. At the time, aircraft were starting to be used in war and one of the ways they were first used was to obtain an overview of the enemy’s positions, so that artillery fire could be better directed to inflict maximum damage. Being the artillery officer soon to become airman, it was obvious to him that such usage would be the future. At the beginning, he was rather isolated in his views, which were even met with derision by his fellow officers. Well, I guess we know how that ended…
I view the cloud pretty much in a similar way. Even with derision and denial, the cloud is already a most relevant technology, which will become a lot more pervasive in the coming years. Each one of us can use it or not, but it’s here to stay and it can be used in effective and reasonable ways. It has risks, as any other technologies do, but those can be balanced by a reasonable choice of providers, apps and associated technologies.

Good ideas, rui although may not be suitable for everyone. The original poster may or may not understand differences/benefits/disadvantages between full backups and differential/incremental backups. You can google for this.

Personally, I don’t like differential/incremental backups so do full data file backups all the time. I also rotate father/son HDs of my data files to my son’s office monthly as well as bi-weekly backups to an in-house ESATA HD directly connected to my server. WHS also backs up the PCs in the house nightly or so and can be restored from the server.

This just points out that everyone has different needs for backups. Hopefully, the original poster can take away enough information from the posts to formulate a good staregy to use.

K

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Good ideas, rui although may not be suitable for everyone. The original poster may or may not understand differences/benefits/disadvantages between full backups and differential/incremental backups. You can google for this.

K

Absolutely right, Kevin, although here my point was not really about full and differential backups, but more about using full backups locally and partial backups to offsite methods, in this case offsite being cloud. There are already backup apps that allow you to backup relevant folders to either proprietary cloud storage or to other cloud storage such as OneDrive. Using this cloud storage just for essential files and folders increases the suitability of the cloud as a backup alternative and minimizes the consequences of having a slower internet connection, which was the goal of the original poster.

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Absolutely right, Kevin, although here my point was not really about full and differential backups, but more about using full backups locally and partial backups to offsite methods, in this case offsite being cloud. There are already backup apps that allow you to backup relevant folders to either proprietary cloud storage or to other cloud storage such as OneDrive. Using this cloud storage just for essential files and folders increases the suitability of the cloud as a backup alternative and minimizes the consequences of having a slower internet connection, which was the goal of the original poster.

No criticism intended, rui. I was just making sure the poster understood different backup types as maybe he was doing full backups all the time currently? I, personally, prefer to NOT use any cloud storage for my personal data files.

K

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No criticism intended, rui. I was just making sure the poster understood different backup types as maybe he was doing full backups all the time currently? I, personally, prefer to NOT use any cloud storage for my personal data files.

K

I didn’t see your post as criticism, not at all :).

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I didn’t know satellite was slower than good DSL; thanks for letting me know. Dish certainly doesn’t want you to know that! As for how far I am from a switching station, the phone company won’t say. It’s not Verizon; it’s CenturyLink. I got DSL way back when it was Qwest.net and have stayed with it.

So when companies try to sell individuals (not major companies) on backing up to the cloud, what are their assumptions as far as what kind of internet connection you have?

Without you even saying where you live, I suspect that it’s in Central FL somewhere, because I’m very familiar with the companies you mention.

When I was deemed too far from the nearest Switch to get DSL, I hooked up with Wild Blue satellite internet. What a rip off that was.
First, the installer insisted that he could not put the dish up on my house and charged me an extra $150 to put a post in the ground just outside my house.

Then the price was high, for a very limited bandwidth, and if I exceeded my monthly allotment of megabytes, they would shut me off. Once I was shut off for five days.

It was a time of rejoicement, when the local Cable company ran a line to my house, and I could DUMP Wild Blue Satellite Internet. Wild Blue is an offshoot of Hughes Net.

cheers

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areader,

There is always sneaker net! Buy a WD My Passport drive USB 3.0 (1tb approx $70 USD, 2tb approx $100 USD), preferably 2. Backup to the computer and take the WD home with you. Next time backup to the other drive, take it home and bring the other one back. Now you’re not tying up your internet connection or the computer and you still have offsite backup. HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Actually, I’m retired and I don’t go somewhere else on a daily basis. I think that leaves out that option. But thanks for suggesting that.

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Actually, I’m retired and I don’t go somewhere else on a daily basis. I think that leaves out that option. But thanks for suggesting that.

If you are retired, what are you doing that needs a daily backup?

I’m retired also, but also use a WHS system (Windows Home Server) at home that takes daily backups (actually duplicates files over separate disks in the server). I also backup to an ESATA attached 2 TB drive). BUT, I only go offsite on a monthly basis using father/son HDs that I insert in the server, backup and take offsite (in my case, to my son’s work).

Do you not have anyone locally that you would trust with backup hard drive for a father/son type backup?

Kevin

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If you are retired, what are you doing that needs a daily backup?

I’m retired also, but also use a WHS system (Windows Home Server) at home that takes daily backups (actually duplicates files over separate disks in the server). I also backup to an ESATA attached 2 TB drive). BUT, I only go offsite on a monthly basis using father/son HDs that I insert in the server, backup and take offsite (in my case, to my son’s work).
Do you not have anyone locally that you would trust with backup hard drive for a father/son type backup?
Kevin

Ah, another FL retiree that thinks much like I do, concerning backups and keeping your data files close to you.
No Cloud Backups for this old Tech.

The only BAD backup is the one you decided NOT to do. And the only perfectly worthless backup is the one that does not give you the ability to do an immediate Restore if something goes wrong.

Just this week, I did a C: drive backup to a second internal 1TB drive, and just a few hours later my computer locked up and I was not able to reboot it.
I have my backup program on a CD, so booting up and restoring my latest backup image file was just a quick 15 minute job.

I use the same backup program, (but a later version) that I’ve been using since 1997 when it was first written, and before it was bought and butchered by Symantec. It’s “Ghost” ver 11.5 and it’s the last of the DOS based Backup Programs. It will also back up Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 with NO problems.
My software Guru tells me that it even backs up his Linux server. Who would of thunk it?

Cheers brothers!

The Doctor

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Ah, another FL retiree that thinks much like I do, concerning backups and keeping your data files close to you.
No Cloud Backups for this old Tech.

The only BAD backup is the one you decided NOT to do. And the only perfectly worthless backup is the one that does not give you the ability to do an immediate Restore if something goes wrong.

Just this week, I did a C: drive backup to a second internal 1TB drive, and just a few hours later my computer locked up and I was not able to reboot it.
I have my backup program on a CD, so booting up and restoring my latest backup image file was just a quick 15 minute job.

I use the same backup program, (but a later version) that I’ve been using since 1997 when it was first written, and before it was bought and butchered by Symantec. It’s “Ghost” ver 11.5 and it’s the last of the DOS based Backup Programs. It will also back up Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 with NO problems.
My software Guru tells me that it even backs up his Linux server. Who would of thunk it?

Cheers brothers!

The Doctor

Yep, no cloud for me. I have no trust for outside organizations holding all my backup data (this comes from many years working at a 3 letter Government agency that starts with an “F”). My backup is a little different than most as a server is in use here. I teach computer basics at a senior center and soon for the city where I live. Backup is heavily discussed. One of the questions I ask is “do you know where your data files are?“. Most do not. Hence the recommendation to store all data under something like C:DATA. I dislike the MS defaults of C:USERSUSERNAME etc especially for a single person use PC. With a multiple person use PC, I still recommend C:DATAUSERNAME1 or USERNAME2 etc. In my case, I change default folders in the likes of Word to my default folder on the server.

Kevin

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Where are you in Central Florida, DrWho. I remember watching DrWho as a kid back home. Ah, long lost days.

Kevin

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Is satelite worth it?

Been there done that. Satellite is 1 step above dialup ( the signal has to travel up to the satellite and then back ). Look around and see if there are any wireless ISP’s that have a wireless signal to a radio that you install on your house. I’m in a rural area out in the desert and at least the wireless gets me anywhere from 2-4 Mbps.
It sounds like you probably have Verizon, that’s what’s out here with 40 year old lines that they say will carry “DSL”. My neighbor tried it and it was awful.
Good luck

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Companies only sell the service, it’s up to the consumer to figure out if they can use it. That’s why research is so important in this day and age before you plunk down the cash. Business isn’t done the way it used to be when you and I were younger LOL.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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An external disk is cheaper and much faster. Once you’ve made the backup hide the disk at the other end of the house – as far away from the PC as possible – so that a catastrophe will leave the disk accessible if the PC isn’t.
There are good free backup programs that will make an image and backup your data – Macrium, Easus, etc.

cheers, Paul

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… “I can get higher speeds with Comcast but I won’t go that route because their cheap internet is dependent on you getting TV, phone, etc.”

Comcast is currently offering high speed internet only up to 25Mbps for $39.99/month for 12 months. That’s Mega-bits per second, not Kilo-bits. We live in Washington state, and i’m not sure this price is available everywhere. Check online to see if it’s available at your address. Pricewise, that’s a very good deal, especially considering the standard price is a total rip-off at $66.99/month. When the 12-month promotion price ends you can call them and ask for the latest promotion and decide whether to keep going with them. Our location is semi-rural and the Comcast internet is generally good with the occasional slowdown when the entire neighborhood is online. Even then the speed is fast enough to not complain about. They will supply a self-installation kit which includes some cables, instructions and a cable modem box. The cable modem may include a built-in wireless router, but i’m not sure about that so you should ask. They usually charge a monthly fee for the modem, too, so we bought our own Motorola cable modem which paid for itself in about 8 or 10 months by not having to pay Comcast’s rental fee. This is all standard and familiar stuff to existing customers, and i only mention it here because you have so far avoided using cable internet. Depending on how many computers you have, the installation can be very easy or more involved if you have several computers in various rooms. Our experience with Qwest’s DSL internet was so bad it drove us to try cable internet and we never looked back. If you decide to give it a try we’ll be happy to walk you through the setup if you have any questions. Check out the price for “Performance Internet” at Comcast.com (not Comcast.net). Caveat emptor: once you experience true high-speed internet it’s hard to go back!

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My “high speed” DSL line is 700-something KBS and has been that way since they first offered DSL and that was considered high speed. In reality it’s a lot, lot slower. I’ve got off-site unlimited backup thru the company that built my desktop. It’s at the other end of the city and on private property for $90/year. It takes more than a week to do a complete backup, and that’s with the computer on 24/7. And that’s backing up less than 1/4 terrabyte of data (the stuff I feel has to be backed up off site). The daily incrementals can take an hour.

I can get higher speeds with Comcast but I won’t go that route because their cheap internet is dependent on you getting TV, phone, etc.

Is satelite worth it?

Suggestions? Options? Legal recourse for a phone company that advertises double or triple that speed to new users and then can’t give it to folks well inside the city limits (I’m about 5 miles from downtown) who’ve been with them for years? They say the lines can’t handle more than that and they will upgrade the whole city to fiberoptics–eventually. (They’ve been saying that for 5 years.)

Hi areader,

What backup software does the company use/require?

Based on the times required for the backups, it sounds like the backup software does use compression since the effective transfer rate is close to 3 Mbit/s. The daily incremental backups are likely resending the entire contents of changed files rather than using deltas so it’s taking a lot longer than it could be. If it’s an option, switching to a better backup program will help speed things up a lot.

As others have already mentioned, satellite is going to be slow because of the distance the network packets have to travel (and the additional network router hops). Depending on your monthly data usage, Internet service over a cellular network might be worth looking into. With LTE networks, it could easily exceed what you’re currently getting with your DSL connection. For example, T-Mobile has a $30 no-contract, paid-as-you-go monthly service plan that offers unlimited data (first 5GB at 4G LTE then slows down afterwards for the rest of the month with no overage charges). The plan also includes unlimited text and 100 minutes of talk. It’s geared toward users who need more data than talk. Although it’s a mobile plan, you don’t have to be mobile. Check the coverage maps and then try it out for just one month to see how well it works for your house. All of the mobile carriers offer dedicated Wi-Fi hotspots, but it’s almost always a better deal to go with a cell plan even if you never make a phone call with it. On a 4G LTE connection, I average 4 to 6 Mbit/s where I use it the most and have seen upwards of 24 Mbit/s in other locations.

If enough customers leave for other services, it might prod CenturyLink into paying attention and speeding up their network upgrades (I know someone who had service with CenturyLink and eventually jumped ship).

Chung

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I use RetiredGeek’s method of 2 portable drives, but instead of work and home swaps, I arrange with a friend, whom I see every week at bowling league, to swap disks. We each paid for one drive, and partitioned them identically to each use half the space. 450 GB each is sufficient for our needs, for now. I do my backup to the portable drive every week just before bowling day comes around. The tiny 1-TB USB drive (WD Passport) is about the size of 2 decks of cards and gets its power from the USB port.

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I use RetiredGeek’s method of 2 portable drives, but instead of work and home swaps, I arrange with a friend, whom I see every week at bowling league, to swap disks. We each paid for one drive, and partitioned them identically to each use half the space. 450 GB each is sufficient for our needs, for now. I do my backup to the portable drive every week just before bowling day comes around. The tiny 1-TB USB drive (WD Passport) is about the size of 2 decks of cards and gets its power from the USB port.

Pretty smart move, cosmlou. I would imagine that most people have someone that they trust to do a similar thing.

K

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I, personally, prefer to NOT use any cloud storage for my personal data files.

I’m also in that camp. I just use a USB enclosure for a “Clone” of “C” and also back up other files/folders to USB Flash drive. I just don’t trust the “Cloud” yet.
Here’s another decent article for the OP on backup strategy, http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/01/24/complete-guide-backing-computer-properly/

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Wild Blue is an offshoot of Hughes Net

I also started on Wildblue ( instead of dialup ) and it isn’t part of Hughes Net ( AFAIK ) but it is part of Dishnetwork now. Dishnetwork offers Satellite internet but it is actually Wildblue who provides the signal.
Wildblue was one of the most frustrating and disappointing services I have ever encountered and I was locked into a 2 year deal ( or pay a fortune to end it ).
A company in the closest city to me started doing wireless and it is a heck of a lot better than what I had, unlimited, no contract, local call if problems. Cable is never going to get to me with all the orchards around so this is as good as it gets for now.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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I have used what preceded HughesNet some years ago (DirecNet or something similar?). Hopeless experience. As mentioned before, if you use too much bandwidth (Windows updates anyone?) then I got cut back to dialup type speeds. Went away for a few days once. When I got back…couldn’t get on the net…took a several hour phone call to get it sorted out.

I have a friend (back in WV) that still uses HughesNet. Same bandwidth problems. Cable may have its problems (price etc), but on the whole is a very reliable provider (I get 40mbps here) and there are two higher speeds (at a price) above me.

K

I also started on Wildblue ( instead of dialup ) and it isn’t part of Hughes Net ( AFAIK ) but it is part of Dishnetwork now. Dishnetwork offers Satellite internet but it is actually Wildblue who provides the signal.
Wildblue was one of the most frustrating and disappointing services I have ever encountered and I was locked into a 2 year deal ( or pay a fortune to end it ).
A company in the closest city to me started doing wireless and it is a heck of a lot better than what I had, unlimited, no contract, local call if problems. Cable is never going to get to me with all the orchards around so this is as good as it gets for now.

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