Norton Security now silently installs Avast software?

Topic

I have been using Norton “Internet Security” (now renamed “360 Standard Plus”) at home on Win-10 Pro 22H2 for a few years now.

I happened to stumble across some Norton news about users finding some Avast folders and files on their machines – even though they had never had Avast installed.

Here’s the post I’m referring to on the Norton Forums:
https://community.norton.com/en/forums/interesting-and-telling-same-moment

So I checked my machine too. And sure enough, in C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Avast Software\Avast
I found a file called: datascan.json

Looking inside the file, it has a list of File Names and File IDs in some encrypted/hashed format.
The file has 62,000+ lines in it. So I guess it is an inventory list of almost all files on my pc?

My question to everyone is:
1) Are there any other Norton users who are seeing this?
2) Has anyone heard whether this is a security risk?

I do realize that it might not necessarily be nefarious. Now that Norton and Avast have merged, it could be that Norton is now using some of Avast’s software to perform regular, routine stuff?

At the very least it is a terrible business practice. The Norton-owned company should disclose this fact.

I searched the internet a little bit, but did not find hardly any info.

<!–more–>

<span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>Here is a snippet of the top of the file:</span>

      {

         "FullScan" : {

            "last_scanCompleted" : 1,

            "last_scanDuration" : 204,

            "last_scanStartTime" : 133605238444377383

         },

         "ProtectWithEFS" : false,

         "RestrictAccess" : true,

         "ScanModifiedDocuments" : true,

         "filelist" : [

            {

               "FileId" : 171699735793829187,

               "VolumeSerial" : 3470622963,

               "fileSize" : 16113,

               "filename" : "QwA6AFwAVQBzAGUAcgBzAFwAYgBhAHIAcgB5AFwARABlAHMAawB0AG8AcABcAEEAdABsAGEAbgB0AGEAIABMAGUAaQBzAHUAcgBlACAARwB1AGkAZABlAC4AZABvAGMAeAA=",

               "timeFileExistsCheck" : 133605238448326548,

               "timeInserted" : 133605238448326548,

               "timeLWT" : 133080014398257558

            },

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rick41

Replies

Specialist17 wrote:

Now that Norton and Avast have merged, it could be that Norton is now using some of Avast’s software to perform regular, routine stuff?

My guess, based upon a similar experience several years ago when I was using AVG Free and AVG merged with Avast, is that is exactly what you are seeing.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Specialist17

Maybe they (Norton/Avast/AVG) are “similar” under the cover, but they didn’t change the Brand names to avoid losing Brand-loyal customers.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Bookman, Specialist17

Hi Specialist17:

I no longer use Norton products, but see my 25-Feb-2024 post in that same Interesting and “telling” in the same moment topic in the Norton Tech Outpost for a link to CeeBee’s 23-Aug-2023 topic C:\Users\xxx\AppData\Local\Norton\AvastScanDump.txt where other Norton users first posted about this.  If you have a NortonLifeLock product on your computer then you’ll likely find traces of Avast-developed technology (e.g., for the Software Updater and other bloat added to your Norton product in recent years) on your system.

Parent company Gen Digital is now sharing all sorts of technology between their subsidiary companies and they don’t even try to to hide it. Avast acquired Piriform (the original developers of the CCleaner disk cleaning utility) a few years ago and now CCleaner users are finding Norton folders on their system – see the March 2024 topic Norton folder in program data folder after updating WTF in the CCleaner forum.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.4412 * Firefox v126.0.0 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24040.4 -1.1.24040.1 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.4.112-1.0.1244 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783 * CCleaner Free Portable 6.23.11010

4 users thanked author for this post.

Bookman, Charlie, rick41, Specialist17

Hi Imacri,

I did originally see your and CeeBee’s post there. In fact, that thread was the only decent amount of info that I found on this subject. So THANKS for your contribution there too!!

Luckily I did not have that AvastScanDump or the Norton Crypto crap on my machine.

What are you using instead now instead of Norton?  My hesitation to finally leave Norton has been their top-notch Smart Firewall.

rick41 wrote:

What are you using instead now instead of Norton? My hesitation to finally leave Norton has been their top-notch Smart Firewall.

Hi rick41:

I use the Microsoft Defender antivirus built in to my Win 10 OS. I also run Malwarebytes Premium (the “standard” edition without VPN) in real-time protection mode, but my Malwarebytes setting at General | Windows Security Center | Always Register Malwarebytes in the Windows Security Center is disabled to ensure that MS Defender is my primary antivirus and Malwarebytes Premium just runs in the background looking for potential threats that might be missed by my antivirus. I bought a lifetime / perpetual license for Malwarbytes Premium several years ago (which Malwarbytes stopped selling in March 2014) so I don’t have to pay an annual subscription fee, and if I didn’t have that lifetime license I suspect I would just use MS Defender as my antivirus and run a manual scan with Malwarebytes Free about once a week just to double-check for anything missed by MS Defender.

Just FYI, I’ve been using this MS Defender / Malwarebytes Premium combo for 5 years (along with uBlock Origin and Malwarebytes Browser Guard as content blockers in my Firefox and MS Edge browsers) and Malwarebytes Premium has never detected malware or a low-risk PUP (potentially unwanted program) that was missed by MS Defender. The only thing I’ve noticed, other than the occasional false positive detection by Malwarebytes, is that the real-time Web Protection module in Malwarebytes Premium (the same web protection you get with the free Malwarebytes Browser Guard browser extension) will occasionally block a connection to a website / IP address blacklisted by Malwarebytes.

I used Norton Security for over a decade and agree with you about the Norton Smart Firewall. It is an excellent product and easy to customize, but Norton 360 has become too bloated and buggy since NortonLifeLock and Avast merged to become Gen Digital.  I got so fed up dealing with NortonLifeLock’s questionable business practices [e.g., the constant pop-up ads trying to scare me into purchasing unnecessary add-ons, their policy of forcing users who purchase their product key on sale from an authorized reseller to enter their credit card number in their Norton Account and turn on auto-renewal (at least temporarily) before they can activate their subscription, etc.] that I stopped using their products.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.4412 * Firefox v126.0.0 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24040.4 -1.1.24040.1 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.4.112-1.0.1244 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

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satrow, peterb, Bookman, rick41

lmacri, thanks for the recommendations and all that useful detail.

At least thus far, I haven’t encountered a situation where Norton required a credit card — even temporarily — before allowing me to enter a new product key (possibly because I have Norton Security instead of 360?).  But that alone wouldn’t be a deal-breaker for me, since I could just delete the card (I could even use a burner card).  But the other issues you mentioned, plus the now-oversized and unmovable tray-area notifications, have done a lot to sour me on Norton.

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Bookman

@lmacri – thank you!! Just now saw this post (I’m always late to the party LOL) but I’ve reached exactly the same point in time as you (and evidently many others) – tired of Norton’s constant nagware and upselling, and it has got to go. You have confirmed for me the most reasonable path I had been able to come up with, after lots of online research – Defender and MalWareBytes – but you also confirmed the view that manually running the free version of MWB is an adequate protection. Their Family version of premium is $120/year which is more (+/-) than Norton, so that won’t work for me.

Thank you again – and thank you @AskWoody for providing the forums for all this priceless information!

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rick41

just (1/3/2025) tried the MalWareBytes Free versions – confusingly, there are two with different names – and they both install the free trial version of the premium product. Guess I’m out of luck after all…

Sigh…

peterb wrote:

just (1/3/2025) tried the MalWareBytes Free versions – confusingly, there are two with different names – and they both install the free trial version of the premium product. Guess I’m out of luck after all…

No, Peter, you’re not out of luck. 

After installing Malwarebytes Anti-Malware, go into the licensing area and simply end your 14 day free trial and it will convert your installation to the free version.

With the main dashboard showing, click on the “person” icon in the upper right corner of the dashboard.

That will then show you a list to choose from, and you want to select “My subscription”, which should be the first choice on that list.

In this new screen, your status will probably show something like “14 day free trial” or something similar. On that screen there should be an item you can select to end the free trial. Clicking that may produce an “Are you sure you want to do this?” type of screen, but if it does, simply say “yes, I want to end the free trial” or whatever choice to end the trial you’re offered. See post #2731058 below from @lmacri for exact details.
After a few moments, the “My subscription” screen will show that your subscription status is now “Malwarebytes Free”, which means that you’ve now got the free version of Malwarebytes.

 

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satrow, Cybertooth

Specialist17 wrote:

My question to everyone is:

1) Are there any other Norton users who are seeing this?

2) Has anyone heard whether this is a security risk?

I’m using Norton on some of my machines. I just checked on my Windows 10 box, and that Avast folder does exist there. The datascan.json file has a size of 6,656KB.

I don’t know, one way or the other, whether this file represents a security or privacy risk. A general search on the Web and (just in case) on the Avast forum didn’t yield anything useful.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
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Myst

After reading this posting, I ran a scan with AgentRansack and had the exact same result as Specialist17.

I really didn’t like the idea, but then I figured that that these companies – who have decades of combined business experience – aren’t going to risk alienating their millions of customers for whatever putative benefit this unsavory intrusion might bring them individually or collectively.

 

Risk-taking fool that I am, I simply went ahead and deleted the Avast folders. Then I said a little prayer and restarted my Win-10 Pro x64 22H2 Lenovo Thinkstation P520. The restart went fine. Then I ran Norton Live Update, which went fine. Next I did a new search with AgentRansack, which didn’t find any new Avast folders.

 

Of course I’ll keep an eye on this, but as I’ve written, I sincerely doubt that the companies involved would run the risk of having users’ computers get screwed up.

 

vandermeer wrote:

… I ran a scan with AgentRansack and had the exact same result as Specialist17.

I really didn’t like the idea, but then I figured that that these companies – who have decades of combined business experience – aren’t going to risk alienating their millions of customers for whatever putative benefit this unsavory intrusion might bring them individually or collectively…

Hi vandermeer:

From the 22-Feb-2024 BleepingComputer article FTC to ban Avast from selling browsing data for advertising purposes:

“The U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) will order Avast to pay $16.5 million and ban the company from selling the users’ web browsing data or licensing it for advertising purposes.

The complaint says Avast violated millions of consumers’ rights by collecting, storing, and selling their browsing data without their knowledge and consent while misleading them that the products used to harvest their data would block online tracking….”.

For me, the concern is whether parent company Gen Digital has actually made significant changes to protect the data their subsidiaries harvest off customers’ computers. Gen Digital’s gross profit for the 12 months ending December 12, 2023 was $3.061 billion, so the FTC fine of $16.5 million was about 0.5% of their annual gross profit.  I can see why Norton users would be concerned about finding hidden Avast folders on their system, given this company’s reputation.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.4412 * Firefox v126.0.0 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24040.4 -1.1.24040.1 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.4.112-1.0.1244 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

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Bookman

As a long-time Norton Security user, I was certainly “concerned” to find the Avast folder, though I wouldn’t say it was “hidden”. Anyway, as l wrote, it appears to have let itself be deleted without breaking anything.

The fact that “Gen Digital’s gross profit for the 12 months ending December 12, 2023 was $3.061 billion” seems of tangential relevance here.

Far more significant to me is the fact that my online brokerage account uses Symantec’s VIP Access system to provide two-factor authentication. My assumption is that Fidelity did its homework before making this decision.

I got my first internet account in 1994. Thank God, I’ve never had a virus. Whether that’s due to my computer practices or dumb luck, I won’t venture to guess here.

My priority is that my computers work; I feel that as long as my logins haven’t been compromised, I’m ok. l hope my luck holds out.

lf it’s of any interest, l use a program called Mail Washer to help me with my email. l have no affiliation of any kind with the New Zealand firm that produces it.

One more footnote to this:

Although, I just found that file last week, the file and folders had a date-time stamp of November 6, 2023 @ 7p – and they have not been updated since.

So apparently this might not be a part of some routine Norton functionality. But rather was a stealthy one-time scan for something???.

Also, I decided to check my Norton History Logs to see what else was going on at that time? But I did not see any relevant product updates or scans within 1 hour of that file.

The two facts that: #1) It has only happened once, so far, and #2) the event is not recorded in the History Logs is actually more annoying and concerning than if the reverse was true.

I moved and renamed the file. And I will be keeping a watch on that folder.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Bookman, lmacri, rick41, Cybertooth

Specialist17 wrote:

Although, I just found that file last week, the file and folders had a date-time stamp of November 6, 2023 @ 7p – and they have not been updated since.

Hi Specialist17:

I don’t know if it’s a coincidence, but that’s about the same time that Norton Security v22.23.10.10 started rolling out (see the 07-Nov-2023 product announcement <here>). If those Avast files were bundled with the update package you might be able to find the exact date that v22.23.10.10 was delivered your system, assuming your LiveUpdate history logs go as far back as November 2023.

If I recall correctly, most of my Norton Security products updates were delivered by LiveUpdate in two parts – a preliminary “setup” package, followed by the NGC product update (i.e., the update that actually incremented the version number of the scan engine) that usually arrived the next day.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.4412 * Firefox v126.0.1 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24040.4 -1.1.24040.1 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.4.112-1.0.1244 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

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Specialist17

vandermeer wrote:

The fact that “Gen Digital’s gross profit for the 12 months ending December 12, 2023 was $3.061 billion” seems of tangential relevance here.

Hi vandermeer

The point I was trying to make is that the FTC fine is insignificant compared to Gen Digital’s annual profits. Hopefully the bad press and damage to Gen Digital’s reputation will be enough to prevent a repeat of the type of corporate behaviour described in the 27-Jan-2020 PCMag article The Cost of Avast’s Free Antivirus: Companies Can Spy on Your Clicks.

vandermeer wrote:

Far more significant to me is the fact that my online brokerage account uses Symantec’s VIP Access system to provide two-factor authentication. My assumption is that Fidelity did its homework before making this decision.

Symantec enterprise products have been owned by Broadcom since 2019, while NortonLifeLock / Avast home consumer products were combined to form parent company Gen Digital. See the November 2019 SecurityWeek article Broadcom Completes Acquisition of Symantec Enterprise Unit for $10.7 Billion and their March 2024 article Broadcom Merges Symantec and Carbon Black Into New Business Unit.
————
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.4412 * Firefox v126.0.1 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24040.4 -1.1.24040.1 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.4.112-1.0.1244 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

lmacri wrote:

I got so fed up dealing with NortonLifeLock’s questionable business practices [e.g., the constant pop-up ads trying to scare me into purchasing unnecessary add-ons, their policy of forcing users who purchase their product key on sale from an authorized reseller to enter their credit card number in their Norton Account and turn on auto-renewal (at least temporarily) before they can activate their subscription, etc.] that I stopped using their products.

I assume you use Norton’s Uninstall tool to uninstall Norton. If you did, then be advised that the tool doesn’t completely remove Norton. In the C:\Program Files\WindowsApps folder (a hidden and protected folder) you will find Norton Security and NortonsLifeLock waiting to be installed. These files on my system were recently “Modified” when I reviewed their Properties which was long after I had uninstalled Norton. This WindowsApps folder and the folders/files in that folder are hidden and protected. You must take ownership and change the security settings to access these folders/files. You can see those files without changing the ownership/security as they will be listed in a Belarc Advisor scan.

HTH, Dana:))

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rick41, Cybertooth

Hi Specialist17:

Just an FYI that the new Norton v24 product line described in the 10-Sep-2024 product announcement Introducing Norton Security v.24! has abandoned the Norton scan engine and is now using the Avast scan engine. See the 17-Sep-2024 HackerDose article One Less Scanner? Norton Antivirus Jumps on Avast’s Engine.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.5011 * Firefox v131.0.3 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24080.9-1.1.24080.9 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.11.133-1.0.5048 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

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Melvin, Specialist17, rick41, windbg, Cybertooth

@lmacri, thank you for alerting us to this change in the Norton scan engine. Browsing through the Norton Community discussions, with version 24 there are complaints about

• Repeated pushing of other Norton products;
• Unrequested changing of the default browser;
• Loss of control over network rules;
• Norton insisting on automatically updating non-Norton software;
• Loss of the classic Norton interface;
• System sluggishness from excessive CPU use;
• Loss of the Norton Anti-Spam add-in for Outlook; and
• Norton backup to a local drive no longer being available:

New Norton will not allow access other than their cloud. Tech support basically says tough sh*t.

Unless these issues are resolved by the time my renewal is up, I doubt that I’ll be renewing Norton. Several of my PCs are asking to reboot for a Norton upgrade and it looks like this is what I’m about to be faced with. If it’s bad enough, I’m not loath to just cut them off even before renewal time.

 

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rbailin, Melvin, Bookman, Specialist17, rick41, windbg

Good luck with the uninstall! Better buy Revo Uninstaller Pro!

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Bookman, satrow, Cybertooth

PKCano wrote:

Good luck with the uninstall! Better buy Revo Uninstaller Pro!

I agree. I’m still finding Norton files on my system from Norton’s deletion over 2 years ago. I should have gotten Revo Uninstaller Pro.
If you use Norton’s uninstall app, even if you select to delete and not reinstall the app Norton will add the install file in your Start up files to start reinstalling Norton every time you boot up until you remove that install file from the Start up.

HTH, Dana:))

The same was true of AVG and Avast (which are now married to Norton).

Drcard:)) wrote:

If you use Norton’s uninstall app, even if you select to delete and not reinstall the app Norton will add the install file in your Start up files to start reinstalling Norton every time you boot up until you remove that install file from the Start up.

Hi Drcard:)) :

Did you run the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) Tool in advanced “Remove Only” mode (Advanced Options | Remove Only | Remove) as instructed in the support article Uninstall Your Norton Device Security Product on Windows?

I haven’t used Norton since 2019, but if I recall correctly when I used to run that NRnR Tool in advanced “Remove Only” mode it only left behind a small number of disk files and registry entries that I deleted manually (per a list of possible locations of orphaned remnants given to me by Norton Customer Support) after the NRnR Tool finished running and my system re-booted.

However, that was on an old 32-bit Vista SP2 machine using a legacy Norton v22.15.x product. I have no idea how well the NRnR Tool works with newer Windows OSs and/or Norton products like the latest Norton v24 product line.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.5011 * Firefox v131.0.3 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24080.9-1.1.24080.9 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.1.11.133-1.0.5048 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

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Bookman, rick41

This sounds like it could be a mess.  Three months ago I *knew* it might be a mistake to commit to Norton for yet another year.  It was clear what direction they were headed.  But I got a good price for a license key (in 14 years I’ve never once subscribed), and that firewall is great (unless they’ve changed that, too?).

Does cloud-only access mean you have no protection against a malware event when you’re offline?

rick41 wrote:

Does cloud-only access mean you have no protection against a malware event when you’re offline?

If you’re asking about the last item on the list that I prepared of changes to Norton, then “cloud-only access” was about where Norton Backup stores the files you want backed up. All along the customer has had the choice to do a Norton backup either locally (e.g., to an external hard drive) or online on Norton’s servers. From what I’m reading, with the new version of Norton coming out you can only do an online backup and the local option comes into play only if you fill up your online quota.

Some people in the Norton forum have suggested filling up your online storage capacity with junk files, so that you then get offered the option to back up locally. 

 

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rbailin, Bookman, rick41

Recently, Norton unceremoniously migrated my NS Deluxe to N360 Deluxe, screwing 3-devices. It took a while of RnR & Add/Remove, Revo and Registry, to reinstall fully functional N360 to all devices.
I wrote about my adventures on the Norton Community, to have it removed; obviously, against Community Rules.
Now, I get an email, V24 migration is being batched rolled-out. Wait your turn. I’m embracing the white-knuckle-ride.
<h1>BRING IT ON !</h1>

[Charlie]

I use Linux Mint for daily use on the web but still have Windows 7.  I have Firefox and AVG Free antivirus on the Win 7 and once a month I go online to update the AVG and Firefox.  After updating the AVG I noticed the mouse pointer was not moving smoothly (a clear indication of heavy RAM and CPU use).  I brought up Task Manager and sure enough both CPU and RAM use was very high.

After about 20 minutes of this it stopped and I checked to see if AVG had updated – it had but – the system tray icon was still saying I was Unprotected (the AVG program GUI was saying I was).  I had restarted the computer when told to by AVG to complete the update, but I decided to do another restart in hopes that it would straighten things out, and it did.  Tray icon was now saying I was protected.

It was then that I noticed a new CCleaner icon on the desktop!  While AVG was updating, CCleaner was also updated.  Going through the new CCleaner I found a box I could uncheck to turn off auto-update, but there was a note that if the program got too old (in their opinion) they would update it at their discretion. I never had auto-update checked in the first place (didn’t see any reason to).

Anyway, just thought I’d add this experience into the topic.  Seems General Digital, like Msft, does whatever it pleases!  Oh, and then I did get Firefox updated to 115.16 esr.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

• This reply was modified 7 months ago by Charlie.

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Bookman, wavy, Steve, SueW, rick41, Cybertooth

Thanks for the heads up.  I’ve added an Internet Access block for CCleaner in Norton 360’s Firewall.  Now, will Norton honor that, especially after they update me to version 24?

lmacri wrote:

Hi Drcard:)) : Did you run the Norton Remove and Reinstall (NRnR) Tool in advanced “Remove Only” mode (Advanced Options | Remove Only | Remove) as instructed in the support article Uninstall Your Norton Device Security Product on Windows? I haven’t used Norton since 2019, but if I recall correctly when I used to run that NRnR Tool in advanced “Remove Only” mode it only left behind a small number of disk files and registry entries that I deleted manually (per a list of possible locations of orphaned remnants given to me by Norton Customer Support) after the NRnR Tool finished running and my system re-booted.

Yes, I followed the advanced Remove Only directions of Norton. Every reboot resulted in Norton starting to install and I had to stop the install. Norton had placed the install file in the Start up folder which I had to manually repair. As far as leaving leftovers in the uninstall by Norton’s own app: I manually deleted MANY files and folders left over. Searched the Registry and removed 27 leftover Registry keys. I thought I had gotten them all when I found yet another Norton file
in a Belarc report.

My comment is that the app Norton provides to remove their app does NOT completely remove the app just like their settings to stop their ads and notifications to upsell LifeLock doesn’t stop those notifications. I have uninstalled other AV software using their apps and none of the others leave behind what Norton’s app does. IMO: Any software that that doesn’t allow the user controls of that software to work and actually control the software, is either too poorly written to be used or is malware and purposely takes control of your PC for its own interests. The latter seems to fit Norton’s software and why I classify Norton as Take Control Malware.

FYI:
I have used:
McAfee
Norton
Kaspersky
NOD32
AVG
ESET
Windows Defender

So I do have some experience with different AV software and what any AV software should remove when it is uninstalled. Uninstall of AV software is very important as few apps install as deeply as AV software.

Currently I use ESET… great protection, no conflicts, works quietly in the background. You don’t know its there. Way better experience than with Norton.

HTH, Dana:))

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rbailin, Bookman, rick41, Cybertooth

I tried ESET NOD32 15 years ago, and they lost me forever when they went through my entire Outlook Inbox and added, at the bottom of every email,

” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3890 (20090226) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com ”

I didn’t even want email scanning!

That’s when I switched back to Norton, which had moved from intrusive and CPU-intensive to lightweight and quietly effective.  But even when they were intrusive (a stance they are moving back toward) they didn’t do anything as intrusive as stamping the bottom of each of my emails with three lines of mostly advertising.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Bookman

rick41 wrote:

I tried ESET NOD32 15 years ago, and they lost me forever when they went through my entire Outlook Inbox and added, at the bottom of every email, ” __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3890 (20090226) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ” I didn’t even want email scanning!

I used NOD32 when it added that statement to emails. That was back when so much malware was in email that a comment like that made the person you sent the email to more comfortable opening the email. Most users at that time liked that statement added. That being said NOD32 did let you turn that function off if you so desired and it stayed off…not like the options in Norton. Also since scammers add such a statement to their emails ESET has long ago dropped that option.

rick41 wrote:

But even when they were intrusive (a stance they are moving back toward) they didn’t do anything as intrusive as stamping the bottom of each of my emails with three lines of mostly advertising.

I’m sorry, but I don’t consider a statement saying the email you have sent has been checked and is virus free (which you could turn off) even close to intrusive as turning all notifications off and still have Norton pop up a box (in the middle of whatever you were doing) to let you know of some data breach had occurred somewhere and how you can protect yourself from such breaches by buying their LifeLock (BTW: you can do what LifeLock does for free with 3 phone calls to the 3 credit facilities to freeze your credit for new account until you unfreeze it). To me, intrusive means saying no or stop and the action continues. Adding a new feature that you can turn off is an option and not intrusive. Pop up notifications that you can not turn off or stop is intrusive.

I won’t even start about what a resource hog Norton is or how many users had apps crashed due to Norton’s app update feature like the topic of this thread…Norton added and turned it on silently.

HTH, Dana:))

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WSdabble, Bookman

Drcard:)) wrote:

I’m sorry, but I don’t consider a statement saying the email you have sent has been checked and is virus free (which you could turn off) even close to intrusive as turning all notifications off and still have Norton pop up a box (in the middle of whatever you were doing) to let you know of some data breach had occurred somewhere and how you can protect yourself from such breaches by buying their LifeLock (BTW: you can do what LifeLock does for free with 3 phone calls to the 3 credit facilities to freeze your credit for new account until you unfreeze it). To me, intrusive means saying no or stop and the action continues. Adding a new feature that you can turn off is an option and not intrusive. Pop up notifications that you can not turn off or stop is intrusive.

Once reason I considered the NOD32 stamp annoying is that it covered so  much area instead of the simple “Checked for viruses by xx Anti-Virus” that other AVs were doing when stamping an email.  Sometimes the NOD32 statement took up more space than the rest of the email.  And turning off the option did *not* undo the lengthy stamp it had already put at the bottom of each email.  That should have been an opt-in, not an opt-out.

I’ve actually been pretty successful turning off most of the Norton notifications.  Now, I don’t know what’s going to happen when I get “upgraded” to v24, but I haven’t seen a single advertising  notification for at least a year.  I’ve seen a few “informational” alerts, but when I choose “don’t show me again,” it doesn’t.  The exception is immediately after a version update, when, upon first opening a browser, I get a full screen notice warning me that I don’t have all protection features enabled.  But after closing it, it doesn’t show up again until the next version update.

One thing about system-tray-area malware notifications in Norton that still annoys me is that, starting a year or two, they were made so large that they cover too much screen real estate.  Previously they had been small and discreet.  I actually considered switching AVs just because of that, but stuck with it.

rick41 wrote:

I’ve actually been pretty successful turning off most of the Norton notifications.  Now, I don’t know what’s going to happen when I get “upgraded” to v24, but I haven’t seen a single advertising  notification for at least a year.  I’ve seen a few “informational” alerts, but when I choose “don’t show me again,” it doesn’t.  The exception is immediately after a version update, when, upon first opening a browser, I get a full screen notice warning me that I don’t have all protection features enabled.  But after closing it, it doesn’t show up again until the next version update. One thing about system-tray-area malware notifications in Norton that still annoys me is that, starting a year or two, they were made so large that they cover too much screen real estate.  Previously they had been small and discreet.  I actually considered switching AVs just because of that, but stuck with it.

Exactly! My point is I have ESET for over 2 years and I never had to deal with any notifications or situations as you have described and never had to turn any options off to obtain that non-intrusive state. The only notifications are malware sites and links being blocked or virus detected and quarantined which are small and disappear without any user action. More importantly, ESET does not use the resources that Norton does. I had one PC that you could not use while Norton was updating or doing a scan. Same PC now with ESET updates and scans and it still can be used.

HTH, Dana:))

Drcard:)) wrote:

More importantly, ESET does not use the resources that Norton does. I had one PC that you could not use while Norton was updating or doing a scan.

I have my own issues with Norton (detailed upthread), but for me it hasn’t bogged down a computer since the Aughts. It definitely was a resource hog back then, but I haven’t run into that kind of problem with Norton for at least 15 years, whether updating or running scans.

 

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windbg, rick41

Not sure if this is the best place to post the following, but here goes anyway:

The Norton Community forum has been in read-only mode (no new posts allowed) since November 22, for “scheduled maintenance”. At first there was a notice at the top saying that this “maintenance” was to last until November 26. On Nov. 27, I went back in to look for updates on the situation with the new Norton 360 version 24—which has proven so problem-plagued that even the volunteer “gurus” who moderate the forum had stopped defending it—and it was still in read-only mode, now with a new deadline of 10AM Pacific time on Nov. 29.

It’s now December and the Norton Community remains in read-only mode. Two days ago, the mods got in two new posts on the long thread dedicated to complaints about Norton v24, but otherwise the most recent post there is nine days old. I also noticed that the post count for that thread has gone down from 357 to 330.

I’m having a hard time escaping the suspicion that Norton management just doesn’t want to hear about it any more. A somewhat more charitable interpretation is that they are working hard on fixing the disastrous new version and allowing further problem reports would be a distraction. This latter interpretation gets a little support from the observation that none of my machines has received the new Norton; my wife did a few weeks ago (she has her own subscription) and she hates it.

P.S. I just tried going back in again, and now the site is throwing a 403 error, “the request could not be satisfied”.

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rbailin, windbg

I just checked Norton Community and there’s now a banner stating

We have completed the maintenance. Thank you for your patience.

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Cybertooth

Cybertooth wrote:

This latter interpretation gets a little support from the observation that none of my machines has received the new Norton; my wife did a few weeks ago (she has her own subscription) and she hates it.

Saimilar situation here.  I use two Win7 machines and two Win10, all with Norton 360.  I purposely (stupidly?) Live-Updated the Win7 machine that I use infrequently to the new version of Norton 360, to get a preview of it and learn what to be prepared for on the other machines and reduce tweaking time.  But none of the other machines have had the new 360 pushed to them.

On the machine where the new 360 was downloaded, after the required reboot I noticed that Win7 was very slow to boot.  And then, alarmingly, Windows said something along the lines of, “Windows is preparing your desktop.”  And when the desktop finally came up, sure enough it was nothing but a black screen with no icons except a recycle bin!  I rebooted again, and crossed my fingers that my actual desktop would reappear, and it did.  Then I tweaked settings for the new 360, and was mostly “all set” with this much diminished — but still apparently functional — version of Norton.

Then a few reboots later (weeks later), I was was again unexpectedly presented with a delay and that  message “Windows is preparing your desktop,” followed by the black desktop with only a recycle bin.  Again the reboot fixed it.  Even when I don’t have that particular problem, the new 360 seems to have slowed my boot time a lot.  And I won’t even get into all the ways the new 360 is a diminished product.  (I can’t prove that the desktop issue is 360-related, but given that its first-ever appearance was just after Live-Updating to the new 360 — v24 — I think it’s very likely.)

I have uninstalled Norton from one of my Win 10 machines, and Defender seems to be working fine.

When I try to use Community now I quickly end up with Access Denied messages that seem to be ip-based, because after that I immediately get the same message on any other pc on the network, unless I use a VPN to get a different ip.

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windbg, Cybertooth

Last time I was forcefully billed for a costly renewal of Norton, I discovered that Norton (Symantec) is now owned by the company based in Romania who produces Avast software. So, no surprise that there is such an “Avast” folder used by Norton… I am so angry for the forceful renewal that I will abandon Norton at the expiration date. Currently it is often using 60% of CPU for unknown background activity. I am tempted to disinstall it completely.

Paolo Borgese wrote:

I discovered that Norton (Symantec) is now owned by the company based in Romania who produces Avast software.

Avast was based in the Czech Republic not Romania and they don’t own Norton!

Back in Sept 2022 Norton and Avast merged and became Gen Digital Inc. (formerly Symantec Corporation) a multinational software company co-headquartered in Tempe, Arizona and Prague, Czech Republic.

Gen Digital also owns a lot of other products such as LifeLock, Avira, AVG, ReputationDefender and CCleaner (which is why some of those products also install parts of Avast.)

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SueW, Elly, satrow

peterb wrote:

just (1/3/2025) tried the MalWareBytes Free versions – confusingly, there are two with different names – and they both install the free trial version of the premium product….

Hi peterb:

See my 07-Jun-2024 post # 2678804 in crimsoncricket’s Window Security is behaving strangely for hints on installing and configuring  Malwarebytes Free v5.x.

The first time you install Malwarebytes you will receive a 14-day trial of Malwarebytes Premium that includes extra features like real-time protection. To switch to Malwarebytes Free before the trial period ends click the “person” icon in the top right corner and choose My Subscription | Deactivate and you will be able to continue using Malwarebytes Free as a second-opinion on-demand scanner.
———–
Dell Inspiron 15 5584 * 64-bit Win 10 Pro v22H2 build 19045.5247 * Firefox v133.0.3 * Microsoft Defender v4.18.24090.11-1.1.24090.11 * Malwarebytes Premium v5.2.4.157-1.0.5116 * Macrium Reflect Free v8.0.7783

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satrow, peterb, Bob99

You posted the same thing I already did higher up in the thread here.

However, I didn’t include the exact location of the “Deactivate” option, as I wasn’t sure where it would be, but I did tell Peter about it.

Thanks for clarifying just where it is.

I haven’t had to use the Deactivate option since my early days transitioning from version 3 to version 4, so I knew it would be around, but I wasn’t sure exactly where. 

P.S. I edited my post above to provide a link to yours since you mention the exact location of the deactivation option.

 

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satrow, peterb

AH!! Thank you and @Bob99 – just reinstalled and configured as recommended, and sure enough it’s all good now. I did actually wonder what would happen at the end of the 14-day trial, but this is a better approach.

 

I’ve never gone to the end of the 14 day period, but I imagine at that time you would’ve been presented with a very strong push to keep the full version with a small link somewhere to opt out of keeping the full version.

No nags, just gentle suggestions when you use it.

cheers, Paul

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Bob99