New Windows 10 beta build is out

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Build 15019 (rs_prerelease) headed out the chute right now. Details from Dona Sarkar: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/01/27/announcin
[See the full post at: New Windows 10 beta build is out]

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OK, so is anyone else tired of MS’s relentless pursuit of shoving an OS without a clear vision down their throat? I’m speaking for the enterprise, the home user will be affected and burdened mercilessly but they are on their own, as MS so obviously has deemed them. I manage about 5000 machines and trying to wade through this nonsense is maddening. We finally got sysprep to work with 1607 after MUCH hassle (we lock a bunch of things down, Live Tiles, I’m looking at you). Version 1507 and 1511 were no where NEAR as hard to sysprep. It appears that things are only getting more difficult for the enterprise with each new release. First this crap about CB, CBB and LTSB. I point blank asked a MS rep we had in house one day why I shouldn’t be using LTSB because it seemed like the most stable version and he bent over backward telling me that was only for mission critical systems. Well, I’m sorry but from what I can tell, my people don’t need Cortana, EDGE and the MS store to do their job. Then he tried to scare me about how LTSB may not be being patched going forward if you don’t upgrade to the latest version (that has since been debunked). So now we have this fiasco of versioning which they have NO idea haw often will come out. 1507 comes out in July 2015, 1511 comes out in Nov, 2015, 1607 comes out around July, 2016, so far so good, and now what? And what will its name be? For God’s sake stick to a standard naming convention. They say they will support N+2 versions, so 1507 is on its way out sometime, but when? And by the way to upgrade to a newer CBB version is a 1GB “patch” that takes about 20 minutes to install on the client. MS is asking me to blindly follow them into something they have no idea the outcome of. And I’ll be the one cleaning up the mess. Sorry for the rant but this is unbelievable.

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You’re singin’ to the choir.

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Acknowledged, just to get it off my chest…

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*had to

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Vindicating Woody (provided you’re on Windows 10, and not on some crappy OS like Windows 7…) :

http://robert.ocallahan.org/2017/01/disable-your-antivirus-software-except.html

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This is an absolutely cool approach releasing a build that most important part is Game Mode (it is) and stating “Popular games may experience crashes or black screens when trying to load due to a platform issue.” :).
Honestly, if that would gave me anything in games, I might be interested in jumping on W10, otherwise, web browsing and e-mail checking is cool with W7. And maybe even cooler with Ubuntu or SuSE :).

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I can’t understand for the life of me why anyone would recommend updating to Windows 10. Security? It seems to employ security measures to stop the user from even using it the way they want and it disrupts business with mandatory upgrades against the will of the user causing the loss of hours of work and sometimes, said upgrades last over 12 hours and then the OS doesn’t work anymore afterwards. It even deletes your private files whenever it wants to.

If this is what passes as “progress” these days, I think it’s probably better to be left behind. Windows 7 is by far the better OS. I used Windows XP for everything without issue up until about two months ago when I bought a Win7 gaming rig and hadn’t had problems with malware or anything in over four years with XP, so I don’t completely buy into the whole idea that not updating Windows increases chances of some infection. It’s nothing routine maintenance, a good malware/virus scanner and some common sense when downloading/installing programs won’t protect against.

It seems to me Windows 10 is one big infection that you have to pay $200 for. Why anyone would upgrade to such an unstable, POS OS is beyond me. Moving backwards instead of forwards doesn’t seem like that great of an idea to me. Based on the stuff I read on here and other sites talking about the same stuff and Win 10 ruining computers, why upgrade at all from Windows 7 or 8.1 if you’re comfortable with that version and it does all you need it to do? I’d sooner try Linux Mint before I ever used Windows 10.

Anyway, sorry to vent a bit. It certainly seems as though Microsoft is in it’s death throws at this point if they have to resort to such measures just to get people to use their software.

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Hi Woody,

Nothing has changed today. AU/MU/WU is still Timing Out.

There were some problems installing updates, but we’ll try again later. If you keep seeing this and want to search the web or contact support for information, this may help: (0x800705b4)

Image is here for 14986.1001:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BxiUW_krt1_zSV9YemFsVkVIalE?usp=sharing

If one runs one of the Troubleshooters MU is deregistered but all one can get after that is Registration Pending.
This has been occuring since Friday….

Best Regards,

Crysta

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@embryjim

I don’t want to devote too much time to this because, if I write too much, it will get too complicated but there are several “groups” affected by Win10: Enterprise and Home, as mentioned above, makers of computers and the suppliers of the different components that make up the insides of the computers, businesses, software companies, etc.

All of these groups are directly affected by MS’s attempt to put their “Service” on top of the only thing that ALL THE PEOPLE running, servicing, selling, creating software, etc., for what we would call the Intel-based Personal Computer needs, which is a stable core OS. Billions upon billions of dollars are invested by these groups, individually and collectively, on these computers and this is being placed in jeopardy by MS’s Win10 plan.

Peep, band together. Go public to the mainstream press with your concerns. Sue Microsoft as a band of brothers and sisters (some home users, some corporations, some people in the business of fixing computers, some software developers, some computer manufactures, etc.).

Yes, courts do apply the law. They do look at the terms of contracts, in this case the adhesion contract which is the MS Win10 licensing agreement. But, if this is taken to the right court, a court where the equities of a situation are also considered as part of the ultimate legal ruling, my belief is that court will side with the band of brothers and sisters and will impose upon MS new conditions as to what it can, and can’t, do with their service which sits on top of the core OS, which is the only thing that everybody has in common, including MS.

It is the “equities”, as we say in the law, if presented properly, where the behavior of MS and the damage, both in terms of time and money to the end-users, etc. will be most obviously revealed. Yes, the contract favors MS, but the overwhelming equities favors a properly configured Band Of Brothers and Sisters who would sue MS who owns a monopoly on the “glue” that holds all of this together: The core OS for Intel based personal computers.

Be aggressive in litigation. Try to obtain an injunction against MS for taking Win10 any further before the case is resolved because they are already doing massive harm to a lot of users and corporations.

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@embryjim I could not of put it more succinctly myself. You mentioned SYSPREP the perfect dichotomy. One M$ web page mentions (Windows SIM) “do not persist driver installs” and the other says “set snpp 1” in the registry (SYSPREP) reg. sub-key. AGGGGH! make your mind up M$! Ohh another priceless one, SYSPREP win8.1 cant enter audit mode without a user account! Reason from the “horses mouth” M$ “in case the system updates while in “Audit mode” (I jest ye not) Doh! 2.1gb of updates so your looking for what you need right? not the superfluous “Fluff” on the test machine to capture. Since Win8.1 the easy way to SYSPREP is enter AUDIT mode after updating then delete the temp user account and enter “OOBE”. Ok but how risky is all that? (yeah it works but if it doesn’t that’s all the time gone “up the spout!”) Win7 is such a delight to SYSPREP ultimately the user has control as to they’re needs and wants. In M$’s quest to find the “one size fits all” solution they are ignoring the “Niche” market that requires for business=work not play time and for home use=play time but can do business, if they really have to. I think I am having a “Wee rant” too. M$ quote “where do you want to go today?” future I hope but lets have a bit of clarity on the way ehh!

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Is anybody have an issue with the download/install stuck at “initializing updates”? I tried the option #2 from this website: http://sihmar.com/fix-windows-10-build-15014-download-stuck-issue/ from the last update, but it has not helped.

Next step is option 1. Just curious if I am alone with this issue?

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Sorry, correction to above – I tried Option 3, now on to option 2.

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Argh.

These kinds of problems are all too common, as I’m sure you know. Can you post on the Answers forum?

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Well, OK, but Microsoft (the company) is now worth more than they’ve been worth in decades.

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Yep Woody,

I just covered the FB Hub. Have been Tweeting with @WindowsInsider about it as well….

Best Regards,

Crysta

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And yet, today, Microsoft’s benefit is higher than expected due to their cloud business being more profitable than they thought…

Time to influence people to not use those services if you want to make a point, because right now, they seem to do what brings the money…

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Dont hold ur breath. The reason Ms has embarked on this is bcoz it corrctly predicted that there will not b such reaction.

And this is too far gone now to change the strategy. Even if they wanted to they can’t.

Corporations have been allowed to get too much power and we are paying for it. U ain’t seen nothing yet.

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Which proves that screwing and exploiting ur customers is profitable in the corporate welfare state that pretends to be capitalist.

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Done Woody,

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_update/on-ip-build-149861001-in-wu-there-were-some/a9cfbe45-7709-45ff-a5a3-2c66827397c9?tm=1485561480271

FB Hub: https://aka.ms/L289bk

Twitter:

https://twitter.com/brandonleblanc/status/825063992921985024

https://twitter.com/donasarkar/status/825089885782544384

Best Regards,

Crysra

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This is precisely what an os should not do – games.

A lot of the bloat crap that they’re piling on it should have been at best optional modules. But they know that unless they shove it down ur throat u wont bite and u can never take the monopolistic instinct out of corps no matter how much they profess to be for competition.

And Ms has already tasted that and cant let go.

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I suppose they only want to make Windows Desktop OS profitable again in a very competitive market, while trying to find an honourable way out of it if it will not work.
They have already stopped developing products which were once advertised as being the future, think UAG, TMG (ISA Server), Biztalk (although this may have morphed into something else). Remember Nokia?
Get used to Windows 10, or move to another OS for home computing.
There are few good or better options out there.
Actually what is said here more often than not, is that it is too difficult to learn Windows 10, while at the same time it is too difficult to learn Linux/MacOS/BSD or whatever else is around.
Can’t have your cake and eat it too!

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@ JNP ……. Court litigation is mostly a waste of time n money. A better solution is for a “white-knight” tech company to come out with a better alternative OS, eg by taking over a popular Linux distro n develop it further to be more user-friendly n well-supported.
……. In the mobile OS market, Google hv already done it with Android, a Linux derivative, n easily dethroned M$-WindowsPhone n Apple-iOS in only a few years.

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+1

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Give ’em hell!

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I had to wait hours, but it finally came through on both of my test machines.

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@ Sessh ……. Some companies think they got a great deal by upgrading to Win 10 for “free” with their Software Assurance(SA)/Insurance package.
.
Companies who pay less upfront money to rent/lease Win 7/8.1 Ent Volume Licenses under M$’s 3-yr Enterprise Agreement, r required to buy the 3-yr Software Assurance/Insurance thru’out their lease, which entitles “free” upgrade rights.
……. SA costs 29% of the full Windows license fee per year. So, 29%X3 = 87%, a discount of 13% if the company upgraded within 3 years. If they do not upgrade within 3 years, they “lose” on their 87% “insurance premium” payment. It’s like paying for the annual car insurance n not getting into a serious accident within 1 year. So, the Op-ed’s company ironically got serious accidental damage by upgrading to Win 10 for “free” within 3 years.
.
In comparison, since 2014, companies who bought Win 7/8.1 Ent VL r required to buy SA for the 1st 3 years “only”. They can opt to not renew SA.

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@ AlexEiffel ……. Cloud subscriptions is like the shop/office n car rental business or equipment leasing business. There is an actual need for the Cloud business, esp by new tech start-up companies.

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Dot.com bubble, anyone?

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There are others that get stuck like you…..

There are other that don’t even get started because of Server Time Outs, like me….

Look at Twitter, some are posting there. I posted a couple of links to a couple of threads above which might help you.

Best Regards,

Crysta

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Exactly. If you want or need to use Windows 10 and also need stability, then I believe LTSB is your best bet, precisely because it will not receive any overhauling feature upgrades like the so-called “Creators Update” every few months. If the day comes that I need to use Windows 10, LTSB is the only version I will ever use.

Please stop telling me that LTSB “is not suitable for normal use” or anything of that crap. As far as I am concerned, that is what Microsoft said about LTSB, and I flat out disagree.

For those who still insist that LTSB “is not suitable for normal use”, well let us agree to disagree on this issue.

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@ Clair ……. Fake news – to promote M$-Windows Defender which is integrated into Win 10.
.
Imagine, the probability one day of M$ charging people subscriptions for the use of Windows Defender, eg like the Windows Defender Advanced Threat Protection subscription for Win 10 Ent E5.

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Just in case somebody stuck at the “Initializing update” error – I’ve added a few hints to my blog post http://borncity.com/win/2017/01/28/windows-10-build-15019-insider-preview-released/ (I was facing this error too – and the “try to switch off and on” bugged me. To I reset WinRM service and the machine finally was able to start a download. Pretty time consuming – it’s now 10 hours since my first attempt to get that build on my test machine.

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Ouch. Now THAT is a lot of work!

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Quite possible. It amazes me that the largest ten companies with stock available in America, based on market capitalization, are:

Apple
Alphabet nee Google
Microsoft
Berkshire Hathaway
Amazon
Facebook
Exxon Mobil
JPMorgan Chase
Johnson & Johnson
Wells Fargo

Alibaba comes in at 13, China Mobile at 15.

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There may certainly be valid arguments against O’Callahan’s post, but “fake news” is not one of them. Generally, I would advise against picking up any buzzword from the political arena and recycling it into a technical debate.

It does not even pretend to be “news”. It’s an opinion, and clearly presented as such.

O’Callahan cannot be suspected of spreading falsehoods in order to support Microsoft. He’s not a Microsoft employee. He also has some legitimacy on the subject of security. As have other experts which have promoted similar views :

https://twitter.com/justinschuh/status/802491391121260544

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13079569

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/11/17/google_hacker_pleads_try_whitelists_not_just_bunk_antivirus_ids/

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Ok, I’ve summed it up – also some MS suggestions and my findings:

http://borncity.com/win/2017/01/28/fix-for-windows-10-build-15019-insider-preview-install-issues/

My machine is now on build 15019 – it decided to take the “fast line” and arrived finally, after 12 hours ;-).

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FYI tried disabling MU and DO – did not work for me.

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I gave up “waiting” for it to happen and just went to bed. Sometime last night it finally downloaded. It was stuck in the “initializing download” status for upwards of 14+ hours. Not a big deal, just made me wonder if something was wrong.

And I guess I wasn’t alone…

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I honestly believe you are paid for this :).

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@ Woody, question!? Why is concentration on the 28% and not on the 48%?

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?

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Microsoft should hire him. Seriously.

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Thanks!

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I know opinions on this are subjective, but I do not see how a malware based OS like Windows 10 that gives users less control over their computers than any OS before it (that I know of) is in any way “better” than any other options out there just because it is the newest Windows version. Microsoft seems to be way more interested in the surveillance business these days and that isn’t something many people want in an OS; less privacy and less control over their personal files and private life in an OS that is supposed to be more secure.

There is no getting used to Windows 10. It’s no good and causing more problems for people than anything else. It is not good for the casual user or even in the workplace. So, I don’t see how it is better than most other options out there because if it was, a lot more people would be using it by now as opposed to abandoning it and not upgrading.

Also, I don’t think it would be too difficult to learn Windows 10 and I could probably get the hang of Linux if I gave it a go. I’m fairly good with tech, but what’s in it for me to go to Win 10? Less control over what my PC does and when it does it, less stability, forced upgrades that may render my computer useless afterwards and being an unpaid beta tester for Microsoft? Unending headaches? My programs likely won’t run on Windows 10? Being spied on? Where’s the benefit? Windows 7 is stable and effective at everything I need it to do just as XP was only it’s better. I think it’s less about not wanting to learn another operating system and more about Windows 10 being a big piece of garbage that people want nothing to do with.

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I was thinking that too about the bubble. Microsoft has lost a lot of money in recent years with bad business decisions plus they are losing money with the Xbox. I don’t know how they are “getting richer” and seeing their highest stock values since Windows XP came out, but their actions with Windows 10 don’t exactly suggest a company that’s doing just fine.

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I am not in disagreement with your perspective as adhesion contracts (some times referred to as “take it or leave it contracts) are always a bit questionable when the contract terms become egregiously one-sided. MS, having a functional monopoly in the Windows OS would be vulnerable and many sections of the W10 EULA could be deemed legally unenforceable. That said, I think things are moving toward a point where an antitrust case seeking to force MS to divest Windows might be the preferable way to go as what MS is doing now is using its monopoly position to force unrelated products and services onto Windows users as a bundle with Windows. The prior antitrust case against MS occurred over matters which seem somewhat trivial when compared to what we are seeing with W10.

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The closest thing to that so far are the Chromebooks, also by Google. Convergence between Android and ChromeOS is predicted, but I have yet to see much movement on that front.

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http://borncity.com/win/2017/01/28/fix-for-windows-10-build-15019-insider-preview-install-issues/

I just tried Gunter Born’s “restart-service WinRM,” searched for updates in WU, and the C:$Windows.~BT folder showed up. Gave me a “Download” button in SettingsWU. Clicked “Download” – folder size doesn’t seem to be changing, no download progress bar change.
But at least it “woke up.”

More in a while

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OK. Try this.
In GPEdit Windows ComponentsDelivery Optimization
Set Download Mode – Enabled – choose 100
Reboot – WU search again, choose Download

This bypasses DO and uses BITS – I’m getting download progress bar action. Maybe they are trying UUP and it’s churning on their end to get the differential before it downloads. If you bypass it and use BITS, maybe….

More in a while.

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$Windows.~BT growing, now preparing to install.
Acting more like a “normal” download/install

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Restarting for install – moving right along. Notice time of posts

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Install moving along quickly

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As if it would be a good thing

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Woody, after following the Surface Pro 4/Surface Book/Windows 10 fiasco since Fall 2015, I decided to leave my work systems running Win 8.1 & Win 8.1 Pro until pigs fly.

Thanks to you, Josh and some other dedicated samaritans,helping stave off the Win 10 marauders, have had a BSOD/freeze free/trouble free 2.5+ years happily using 8.1.

What puzzles me, is there something super special or essential in Win 10 where many must try to use it?

Or, maybe just human nature…?

“…Once there was a silly old ram. Thought he’d punch a hole in a dam. No one could make that ram, scram. He kept buttin’ that dam. ‘Cause he [we Win 10 users?] had [still have?] high hopes, …

Just an idle comment

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For gamers, Win 10 has the latest DirectX. Support for VR is apparently better.
For small business users, to me, there is nothing to upgrade. I like to use ReFS but I’m a minority. Win 8.1 has an older version of ReFS.

Win 8.1 with EMET is probably the best bet to run your computer on if you value security, stability and long term support. Win 7 support is going away in less than 3 years. That’s not long. I wouldn’t be surprised 8.1 picks a bit of steam after. Win 8.1 might be the best group A and B strategies. If you don’t care about patching security holes, then Win 7 unpatched might last a long time.

The only problem with 8.1 is the very small market share, which could end up creating problems over time with companies like Adobe that previously dropped support earlier than XP on Vista for Reader. But when that happens, you can always upgrade to 10 at that point.

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DONE!!!!

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See my results below

https://www.askwoody.com/2017/new-windows-10-beta-build-is-out/comment-page-1/#comment-116604

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@ Woody, I meant 28% = Windows 10,the 48% = WINDOWS 7 / 8.1

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@ Woody, Sorry, I have using my mobile phone as the keyboard & and mouse when South on me on my computer (after 4yrs)

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AHA!

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I try to cover both Win7 and Win10 (to a lesser degree, 8.1). There’s a huge stockpile of articles on Win7, less so on Win10, and I’m looking at things that are new and interesting.

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For whom?

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Microsoft’s business is changing – source of revenue is changing. Windows is no longer the key to the company. Makes a big difference.

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@ Clairv ……. It is fake news based on an opinion…
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/delete-antivirus-says-ex-firefox-175055537.html
.
Opining that M$’s integrated Windows Defender AV program is better than 3rd-party AV programs is like saying that M$’s integrated Edge n IE browsers are superior to 3rd-party browsers like Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Vivaldi, etc.

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Well, they are losing money with Skype, LinkedIn is still hemorrhaging money, billions wasted on the Nokia disaster, losing money with the Surface, losing money with the Xbox and losing money on Windows 10. It doesn’t seem to be changing for the better.

There’s obviously a lot of bad decisions being made at the top and it will catch up to them eventually as poor management tends to guarantee. In 2015 and 2016, their net income was just shy of $29b. That was the first time they failed to make $30b+ in back to back years since 06-07. Maybe their profits go back up this year, but it seems there’s plenty to be concerned about as far as their future. Time will tell.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/267808/net-income-of-microsoft-since-2002/

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I should say, in 2015-2016 combined they made just shy of $29b and it was the first time they failed to make $30b+ in a two year span since 06-07.

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@ Clairv ……. A counter opinion…
https://www.grahamcluley.com/no-disabling-anti-virus-software-not-make-security-sense/

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@ Radek ……. Fyi,…
http://www.ghacks.net/2017/01/28/initial-windows-10-game-mode-benchmarks-disappoint/

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@Anonymous, @messager7777777, @James Bond 007

@Anonymous, I agree completely about a Sherman Anti-Trust case being one of the counts in any complaint against MS. I had expressed this view on Ask Woody, about a month ago, mentioning the previous anti-trust case, and actions in Europe, with regard to bundling IE with Windows. I do not see these two counts, Sherman/adhesion contract, as being mutually exclusive. Actually, I see them as being companions.

I also want to comment here on a few things raised above and below. First, to mess…777, I am afraid a White Knight would come up against a patent infringement claim by MS. I won’t comment about the effect of such a claim by MS to the broader picture (although I have thought this through).

Second, to James Bond 007, Win10 LTSB may be the key to any anti-trust, or adhesion contract, claim or any other equitable legal actions, against MS. If this was my case, and in the words of Bob Dylan, It Ain’t Me Babe, one thing I would put on the table is MS’s claim that Win10 LTSB is not an adequate basic OS for many, if not most, users. If it turns out it is, then MS is in a lot of trouble in Sherman Anti-Trust Land. If it turns out it truly is not, I would find out what it would take to make Win10 LTSB ready for prime time. I might even hire some of you all to serve as expert witnesses to testify about Win10 LTSB :). This is one of the things the judge, hearing the case, would want to know in terms of weighing the equities because one possible remedy, or judgment, in a case against MS would be to force MS to make available, to the public, a basic OS, probably some flavor of Win10 LTSB, or face divestiture as @Anonymous suggests.

Third, to those who think the boat has sailed, for many reasons it has not. In fact, now is about the time to put the boat in the water as we have seen what MS’s plan is. We have examples of the harm MS has done and will continue to do with Win10: “Miss Brooks, Win10 ate my homework because it took five hours to update last night and I had to go to bed. That’s why I can’t turn it in today.”

In the law, you need sufficient facts to plead your case and the right facts. Thurgood Marshall waited a number of years, in his capacity as Chief Counsel for the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, before he challenged racial discrimination in public schools in the landmark case of Brown vs. The Board Of Education, because, among other things, he wanted a case with the right facts. This, in legal circles, is called waiting until the case is ripe.

People, a case against MS, over Win10, is now ripe. This is doable.

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@ rc primak ……. ChromeOS, a web-based OS or online-OS derived from Linux n their Chrome browser, is not an alternative to Windows desktop OS(= a versatile offline+online-OS), esp for tech-savvy cptr users. Hence, mostly cptr dummies n “robotic” students use Chromebooks.
.
ChromeOS which is useful only when online only benefits Google’s business model of free software+service in return for ad+marketing revenue. IOW, ad+marketing revenue can only be gotten from online users n not offline users. Hence, Google hv not been interested in acquiring n developing a pure Linux desktop OS.
……. Google-Android mobile OS is also an online-OS, either via 3G/4G or Wifi. Google had also developed Android into a closed-off or walled-garden OS, in order to be able to get extra revenue from app sales.

The better alternative OS to M$-Windows OS that I was referring to above will hv to hv a business model similar to M$-Win 7/8.1, ie revenue based on license sales or annual subscriptions, n not ad+marketing.

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An opinion is usually based on news, otherwise known as facts (at least, it should be). News can’t be based on an opinion, unless one twists words to mean : this opinion is currently buzzing, so it’s news, and I think it’s false, so it’s also false news.

Graham Cluley’s retort has no value. The gist of his argument is : a) everybody has anti-virus, so it must be good, b) imagine yourself being the boss of a big corporation, what people would think of you if you were infected and you hadn’t antivirus in place, c) many people with no anti-virus are infected (no supporting figures given).

If this is a security expert, I’m the pope.

Also, he’s misrepresenting O’Callahan’s advice, which is not : go and frolick around with no anti-virus, but : install Windows 10 and Windows Defender, instead of (say) Avast. He explicitely says : if you’re on Windows 7, you should keep your crappy Avast or Bitdefender or whatever.

Cluley does not address one big hole in O’Callahan’s argument, which is : O’Callahan explains why anti-virus vendors actively prevent browser vendors from implementing better security measures (and he offers pretty convincing supporting facts), but he does not say what would happen if one would suddenly uninstall one’s traditional anti-virus (meaning : not Microsoft’s), all things being equal ; that is, without browser vendors having implemented thos extra security measures, constrained as they are by market forces.

If you, as an individual, decide to nix your anti-virus overnight, Mozilla (O’Callahan’s former employer) would still be preventend from building a safer Firefox, since “everybody” would still use anti-virus.

There’s also a very convincing argument on the side of anti-virus “haters” (to recycle a dishonest current buzzword), which is that anti-virus actively destroys application software by replacing bits of it. Again, precise supporting facts are presented.

I remember a Macrium Reflect software engineer explaining why anti-virus was doing very untoward things, and as an expert providing support to professional users of an imaging program, working very close to the system, he should know.

The browser is arguably the most dangerous piece of software on your machine, since it faces the Internet all day long, and Web sites are chock-full nowadays of application software doing what they d**n please on your computer, without you having the slightest idea.

So there’s a very good case to be made for security being actively built in the browser, and cause for alarm if third-party software developers (anti-virus vendors) use their market clout and FUD potential to tell browser vendors : you stay out of security, that’s our job, not yours.

For what it’s worth (not much), I use Windows 7 and Avast.

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Yes, I’ve seen it, but I suppose those are tests on high-end machines, mine is not so high-end (Q9650 + 1050 Ti) and that’s where it should help…

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Really, if I were not playing games, I would be on Ubuntu or openSUSE long time ago – both are free and are doing what they are supposed to do :).
For an average home user (mail, www, basic spreadsheets or word processing), I don’t see any point in going down the Windows route anynmore.

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I assure you, Graham is an expert.

His opinion varies from yours. Fine. He certainly has incentive for saying what he says. But Graham’s one of the best.

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@ Clairv ……. Excerpt from a commenter at the above Yahoo link…
.
“JJTooms
15 hours ago

…….
THINK, America (World). This is a fly-by-night news article. It’s one person’s opinion. The article doesn’t reference ANY well-known bodies of experts that have been fighting side-by-side to achieve a high degree of security and protection against the tens of thousands of threats out there right now.

Martindale, the author, claims O’Callahan “knows his stuff,” yet cannot recognize that O’Callahan’s work as a Firefox developer DOES NOT qualify him as a security expert, much less confer ISO/IEC 27001:2016 Information Security Management Systems qualifications.
……. “

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Actually, it’s not my opinion (I thought it was yours, by the way… ; didn’t you recommend Windows Defender over other solutions ?). As far as I have an opinion on the subject, and as far as my opinion can be inferred from my practice, I am pro third-party anti-virus : I run Avast under Windows 7.

I’m quite willing to accept that Graham Cluley, whom I did not know a few hours ago, holds genuine expertise in security. However, I do insist that he did not put it to good use in that specific post. His arguments are very poor.

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That’s irrelevant. This commenter does not bring a single technical argument to the debate. Again : that does not mean there are none. Do read the links I provided if you want to find some.

Also : this is not a one-man crusade, with a single allegedly unhinged individual talking his head off. It’s a legitimate discussion about a real issue, with valid arguments on both sides. Look up Justin Schuh and others.

https://medium.com/@justin.schuh/stop-buying-bad-security-prescriptions-f18e4f61ba9e

https://twitter.com/justinschuh/status/802491391121260544

http://uk.businessinsider.com/justin-schuh-google-chrome-security-2015-6?r=US&IR=T

https://arstechnica.co.uk/information-technology/2017/01/antivirus-is-bad/

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@JNP,
My prior comments about the W10 EULA being vulnerable were in consideration of the extent to which MS attempts to overreach in securing contract rights that would appear to extend well beyond the relationship MS has by virtue of licensing the W10 OS. This is obviously driven by the desire to legally impose the operational rights required to use the OS as a vehicle to implement a new and/or extended cloud based/marketing business model. MS, like others seeking to aggressively improve their positions in the EULA, have relied upon the Supreme Court case, AT&T Mobility vs. Concepcion. In this 2011 case, the court ruled in a 5-4 decision that the Federal Arbitration Act of 1925 preempts state laws that prohibit contracts from disallowing class-wide arbitration. Although this decision could be disregarded in certain circumstances, it largely leaves individual users in a situation where they are in individual arbitration with MS. At least, that is what MS counsel would like everyone to believe. However, there are many legal theories that could be employed to approach redress in the US without considering the antitrust theory employed by the EU Competition Bureau.

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That’s a balanced view of the situation.

Yep, I stick by Windows Defender. I have a lot of unpopular opinions….

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@ Woody, Does your impending new forum site separate windows 7 questions and comments from those on Windows 10?

wouldn’t that give you a better count for use of each OS?

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++++1 Most Definitely BUT AV is also Definitely not the protection it once was from anybody.

TODAY, the best PROTECTION is sitting in that CHAIR looking at your SCREEN. Be wise Folks!!!!

Best Regards,

Crysta

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Your worst enemy is your clicking finger.

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Yep, we’ll ultimately have separate forums for Win 7, 8.1 and 10.

We’ll also have forums for Linux, macOS and ChromeOS – all for people with Windows backgrounds.

It’s hard to gauge interest by OS. Many Win10 articles are popular for Win7 owners.

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Woody, maybe you should qualify your statement for those who do not read or understand the fine print:
– Windows Defender for anything but Windows 7 and Vista
– MSE for Windows 7 and Vista

They are the same product under different names for different OS.
Windows Defender in Windows 7 is good, but only a subset of MSE

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http://marc.info/?l=patchmanagement&m=148562469325594&w=2

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Not everyone dreams of working for Microsoft.
Seriously.

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Excellent, this setting is consistent with what few others noticed before
DO is still broken, with UUP or without.

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+1

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@CH100 @Woody, I made it to 15019.1000, more on that later in detail…..

I have considered ‘DO’ broken and unwanted. UUP, I have off and was not prepared to give it another try after all the malaise I have been through over the last 10 days.

For DO, I turned of GPO and followed Susan, which you posted below.

I will give UUP another try, but I want my ESD/ISO as well. See this:

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/74480-uup-iso-create-bootable-iso-windows-10-build-upgrade-files.html

What do you and Woody think of that? There is a 15007 threat on Answers that I have been following and got it there on Page 13.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_update/pc-build-15007-download-stuck-at-0/d510e14b-9df4-4672-a45b-92374604d999

Best Regards,

Crysta

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REALLY…..

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@Anonymous

My background is in criminal law (now retired), appeals to be exact, so I am flying on basic principles. I can tell your background is more in this area of the law, so it is nice to have somebody who actually knows something more about this area of the law than I. Like you, I am confident there are ways around AT&T Mobility vs. Conception, especially if one/some of the plaintiffs aren’t individuals but rather companies affected by Microsoft’s actions. In this regard, I envision a cornucopia of different types of plaintiffs to the action and numerous legal theories of wrongdoing. Then, see who’s standing, and which allegations remain, after MS’s motion for summary judgment is ruled upon. Sometimes, the kitchen sink approach is correct, and this seems to be one of those instances.

Previously, I had also raised here MS’s overarching movement to the cloud strategy you suggest and there seemed to be agreement on Ask Woody that this is MS’s ultimate plan. I would add, to the cloud based business model you write about, that a lot of Win10 (Cortana, Edge, the search box, telemetrics, etc.), is designed to help MS train, and advance, its artificial intelligence algorithms and then products based upon these new algorithms. This doesn’t have a whole lot to do with a basic OS, does it? And shouldn’t MS be compensating us for this type of data-mining when all we want is a stable OS?

Perhaps, somebody will actually step into this legal void, we have been discussing, and properly work-up an action against MS. Done right, and by the right legal team, this could start the pressure against MS to better comply with the law and the needs of its customers, competitors, computer manufacturers, suppliers of same, etc.

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HAHAHA @Woody(maybe next time) NOT SO FAST…..

This was a corrupt Image. See my Detailed explanation at:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_update/on-ip-build-149861001-in-wu-there-were-some/a9cfbe45-7709-45ff-a5a3-2c66827397c9

Best Regards,

Crysta

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“What puzzles me, is there something super special or essential in Win 10 where many must try to use it?”

– Jbird.

Remember the excitement that used to follow each Windows release, going right back to Windows 98?

The forums were abuzz with people praising the latest versions of Windows and the new features that came with them.

OK, there were a few issues and complaints in some of the posts but, overall, the majority of people seemed to be happy.

Since the release of Windows 8 and (especially) Windows 10, all of the ‘buzz’ has gone and the majority of posts that I see on forums are complaints.

Could you imagine shops opening at midnight and people queuing up for miles to buy Windows 10 when it was released 18 months ago like what happened when Windows 95 hit the shelves? Nope, neither could I.

The “Glory Days” of Windows are over.

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Nope!!! @Jbird,

BUUUUT, it is NEW and in a perpetual BETA mode for both the Fast Ring, Slow Ring, Preview Ring AND NO RING, So I find it Fun to Play with like a HOBBY. Not something MS wants to hear but I think that might sums it up for many people consumer and cooperate.

If one whom wants a Stable OS, I personally think W 8.1 is the best one, definitely NOT because of the Start Screen/menu(which I so rarely use) but because of the ease(so far at least) of PATCHING. It is because of horrendous Patch Problems and Nightmare about six month after W 8.0 came out that FLOGGED ME OFF OF W 7 SP 1. I was running W 8.0 in a test partition and as much as I detested the DT GUI Experience, Patching was SOOOOOOOOOOOO EASY! That is what sold me on W 8. Then there was DISM, a far better SFC and Troubleshooter.

I have never been a Start Menu user even on W 7. I use a Tool Bar named ‘.’ that has various menus in it including Start Menu, Quick Launch, Both Programs Menus, Administrator Tools, my Portables= Program Files (Portables) and Microsoft (Portables).

So I am quite happy with W 8.1 as my Main Partition and on my Entertainment Center NUC.

Best Regards,

Crysta

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@ Clairv ……. Excerpt from trustedreviewsdotcom…
.
“Defender was among the worst performing anti-virus products tested by AV-TEST this spring. While it did well against a reference set of recently collected malware, spotting 99.7% in March and 99.8% in April, it put in a consistently poor performance against real-world exposure tests to malware that was live online, with a detection rate of 88.9% in March and 88% in April.

It was also a little more prone to misidentifying legitimate software as malicious, although with five false positives out of a set of more than a million, it wasn’t a major problem. Defender proved to be fairly unobtrusive in terms of its effect on system performance, except when it came to installing applications for the first time, where it reduced performance by an average of 51%.”

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The future of Windows as a service:

http://www.itworld.com/article/3162708/enterprise-applications/new-office-365-subscriptions-for-consumers-plunged-62-in-2016.html

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I am no longer trying the Insider versions. Way too much trouble and so little time…

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Carl D wrote:

The “Glory Days” of Windows are over.

MS knows it, which is precisely why they force it so aggressively down users’ throat. They realize that’s the only way they can get it on and keep it on computers. Desperation makes evil out of top corporate management anxious to keep their billions flowing. They got too used to them, which makes them feel special and deserving, no matter what they do.

Just watch what they’ll be able to do in the Trump era.

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Woody,

Are you aware of this?

January 30, 2017—KB4010672 (OS Build 14393.729)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4000825/windows-10-and-windows-server-2016-update-history

I haven’t gotten to that partition yet, to check it out…..

Best Regards,

Crysta

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

1 user thanked author for this post.

PKCano

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Nope. Thanks for the heads up!

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I found out later when I had a moment that it is for Servers Only and only available in the “Catalog”.

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

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Hi Y’all,

Some of you may find this interesting, useful or down right helpful….

on The FeedBack HUB(Running W 10 mandatory}:
Build 15019.1000: App GUI Display Problems and My Resolution; Many, Many Warm and Cold Restarts.

https://aka.ms/Jw2vod

Best Regards,

Crysta

--------------------------------------

1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

-----------------

1 user thanked author for this post.

woody

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