• New Modem & Router, or Gateway?

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    #2290299

    Hi All,
    I hope you’re all are having a good day.

    I’m looking for a new Modem and Router to purchase. In 3 weeks I need to have new cable equipment to keep my “discount”. This search has been very stressful and I need to stop to keep my sanity.

    The problem I’m having is this is very confusing info about all 3 products. Yes, I can get around in setting up a router easily enough (been doing it since 1996), but the options and the pluses and minuses of new equipment literally make my head spin. (this search makes me have a literal panic attack!)
    While researching I read things like “networking degrades over time”, “runs hot”, “very bad tech support” lots of other scary things. Quite simply, I need help, please.
    My system’s currently feature windows 7 64bit SP1. Laptops are something (different) I personally don’t use them for many reasons. (Wifi being one)

    I DO know what I want, not want, and don’t care about.

    Prices for each should be in the $70 to $180 range.

    Probably NO to a Gateway (Modem / Router combo) as I don’t see much advantage to a gateway and worry that Comcast will play around with it. Force updates to limit my access?
    If I’m wrong please let me know (with reasons if possible but not needed).

    — Modem —

    1 – MUST work with Comcast’s Xfinity. *sigh*
    2 – Must be reliable (be around for 4+ years) and have ability to update firmware.
    3 – Should have voice (land line / phone line) support though this isn’t of greatest importance.
    4 – NO to smartphone “app” only interface. Should have an easy to access interface, like from a real computer with an Ethernet connection. If it’s an “app” connection it should also have real computer access (ex: https://192.168.x.x). No WiFi only.
    5 – Must… Since this looks like a “thing” support windows 7 thru 10 and all forms of Linux, as I’m migrating away from the evil MS madness to Linux.
    6 – DOCSYS. Which ever version also works with Comcast/Xfinity, WOW, Starlink and other versions of DOCSYS 3.x ? (Head scratches and makes Scooby Doo “roh roh” sound)
    7 – Should have internal battery backup though I can live without it, probably. (Expensive?)

    — Router —

    1 – MUST be reliable (6+ years) and reasonably priced with update-able firmware / software.
    2 – Must seamlessly interface with Modem.
    3 – Must have support for Win 7, 10 and all flavors of Linux (If this is a real thing? I saw one Router say it only supports Debian versions of Linux. Wwwhhah? Roh roh! Is this a troll?)  My move to Linux continues.
    4 – Must have at least 4, and up to 8 or more DSL Ethernet ports (4 is a minimum as this is what’s used now I don’t trust WiFi and it’s only ever mildly used here. Guest smartphones and laptops, Nest, etc.)
    5 – Must have 2.4-GHz and 5-GHz Wifi radios, for those times that WiFi is just needed.
    6 – NO to smartphone “app” only interface. Should have an easy to access interface, like from a real computer with an Ethernet connection. IF it’s an “app” connection it should have real computer access also. And not WiFi only.
    7 – Should have: Decent (non childish) interface. The standard Comcast / Xfinity interface is just annoying, confusing and stupid.
    8 – Must have firewall, port forwarding, etc. All the normal Router functions that have been around forever. Those I can easily deal with.
    9 – *Should* have variable power for WiFi radios. I don’t need WiFi screaming at 100%, I’m sitting next to this box. *shivers* This is a feature I had seen in an AT&T gateway I had for a while.
    10 – NO to Google, Amazon or other big brother controls or features.
    11 – If this is an option, Should have internal battery backup though I can live without it.
    12 – IPV4 and IPV6 of course.

    Thank you to anyone who takes on the challenge and anyone who shares their input and experiences.
    Best regards,
    Gary

    “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    Viewing 12 reply threads
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    • #2290416

      Modem/router combo is pretty much standard these days. If it is not an xfinity unit they can’t play with it.
      If xfinity provide the modem you can get a plain ethernet router.

      In that price range you only get SOHO units and have to rely on the manufacturers for updates, which usually stop after a couple of years. The way to secure the unit is to set a strong admin password and ensure remote management is turned off.

      Find one or two with the features you require (wireless AX etc) at a price you are happy with and post details here. We will let you know if there is anything really bad about your choice.

      cheers, Paul

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2290432

      I’m on Xfinity and I have a Motorola MG7550 modem/router (Amazon $149, guaranteed compatible) that uses a browser interface – 192.168.0.1.  I’ve had it for more than a year.

      Even though it’s my equipment, Xfinity handles firmware updates.  Motorola makes firmware available to Comcast, and then Comcast/Xfinity pushes them out to Motorola equipment as applicable.  I can’t say if this is true for all brands, but I’m guessing that in order to get the “guaranteed compatible” stamp of approval from Comcast/Xfinity, it probably is.

      I’m using my old Netgear N750 DSL modem/router re-flashed with DD-WRT firmware as an extra router.  The DD-WRT firmware allows the WAN port (the DSL connection) to become just another LAN port, and also allows for disabling DHCP.  I connect my MG7550 to the former WAN port, have four available LAN ports, and let the MG7550 handle all DHCP.  In total I have eight LAN ports.  It all works seamlessly.

      Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!
      We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.
      We were all once "Average Users".

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2291698

        Thanks bbearren.

        This is very intriguing.  I might go this way if shipping times are an issue.

        Regards,
        Gary

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2290434

      You could also let the provider supply the modem only, and thus ensure compatibility with their network. Plus that keeps them on the hook for maintenance all the way into your home/office.

      Then you only have to purchase the router that meets your needs, and turn off remote management to that and secure it to your standards.

      That is what I did.

      I recently installed a Netgear AC1600 (R6330) router for my home network to replace a 10 year old model that was no longer receiving updates. It has four 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet LAN ports and is dual band Wi-Fi with 2.4-GHz and 5-GHz. The router new is in the $75 – $90 price range https://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/wifi-routers/r6330.aspx

      It can be manually configured in the router admin interface at ‘192.168.1.1’, or by using their Nighthawk smartphone app (didn’t even try that, so no comment there…). I have always liked the Netgear admin interface, and have been using it for 10 years. They haven’t changed it much in the new version except to add new features.

      It has guest networks available at 2.4-GHz and 5-GHz , that can be isolated from everything else except the internet.

      It has a USB 2.0 port for a shared data storage drive or printer. Have not tested that yet.

      So far it is compatible with every device that I have tried to connect with, including Windows, Linux, Android, Roku. etc. It claims that it is Windows, Mac, Unix, and Linux compatible.

      And I added an APC 600VA battery backup UPS unit to power just the modem and router. In testing from a full charge it kept my network up for over 3 hours.

      Windows 10 Pro 22H2

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2291703

        Hey JohnW,

        I called Comcast last night to get prices of modems as their website is suspiciously missing this vital link in the chain to ownership.

        When I pressed the issue I was told that I was the best customer they have (brap – really now! Free service then.) and informed that, “Sorry, we do not sell modems or hardware.  Please go to Walmart or BestBuy and purchase what you like.”

        I’m still laughing.  This was rich.

        All your input is great.  Esp. the guest network setup.  Thanks for taking the time.

        Regards,
        Gary

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2290466

      3 – Should have voice (land line / phone line) support though this isn’t of greatest importance.

      This may require a MTA (aka, “telephony”) modem, which could be a limiting factor. Few modem manufacturers other than Arris support this feature.

      To broaden your choices, you might consider ditching Comcast/Xfinity’s phone service for a third-party VoIP service such as Vonage, et al. You could then use an ordinary, non-MTA modem because the phone service would be provided by a separate adapter plugged into your network.

      You may want to talk to Comcast’s tech support first, though. Some cable companies may provide a separate phone adapter for their phone service if you provide your own non-MTA modem. But who are we kidding … it’s Comcast, so they’ll probably insist that you use a MTA modem if you want their phone service.

      You should also do a cost comparison of the monthly fees for a third-party VoIP service vs. paying for Comcast’s phone service. Don’t forget that if you drop phone service, Comcast may jack up the “unbundled” price on your remaining services.

       

      1 – MUST work with Comcast’s Xfinity. *sigh*

      Have you read the page: “Using Approved Third-Party Equipment for Xfinity Internet and Xfinity Voice“? You have to log in, but if you do so it supposedly will tell you which equipment is compatible with the Xfinity services you’re receiving. However, I’m not sure if it will show you a list without the telephone service because you’re currently subscribed to that.

      I would start with Comcast’s “Approved Modem List“. Note MTA modems are identified in the “VoIP” column. For a bit of future-proofing, I would stick to DOCSIS 3.1 modems (indicated by asterisks next to the model numbers).

      Notice that if you want 3.1 and MTA, your choices will be drastically reduced — to just two! And that’s assuming you can even find them on the retail market. That’s why you might want to consider unbundling the phone service.

      Note this list includes both modems and gateways, and I agree with your preference to avoid gateways. A separate router would allow you to control your internal LAN yourself without any interference from your ISP — provided you set it up as a DHCP router, not as a non-DHCP network switch. A separate router also allows you to choose a router with the features you want — and change it out in the future — without being limited by Comcast’s list.

       

      • #2291704

        Thanks dg1261,
        I owe you an apology as I spaced out mentioning that I VoIP from a 3rd party provider.
        My research skills need honing because I didn’t check out Ooma.

        All of your reply was very helpful and I got quite an education. Thank you.
        Gary

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2290471

      3 – Should have voice (land line / phone line) support though this isn’t of greatest importance.

      I missed this on my earlier reply because I focused my response on the router requirements.

      There are clearly some “bring your own” voice solutions that leverage VoIP. My choice was Ooma Telo. https://www.ooma.com/telo/

      The Ooma device is just plugged into a LAN jack on my router. Then my Panasonic cordless phone base plugs into the telco RJ-11 jack in the Ooma. Plug and play, and the best part is that the basic plan phone service is free for life after you buy the device.

      However you will be billed for any applicable monthly taxes and fees from regulators at the city, county, state, province and federal levels. Ooma provides one stop billing for that as a convenience. In my case where I live that is less than $6.00/month.

      I ported my AT&T landline over about 10 years ago, and have never looked back. I estimate that I have saved over $4,400 over what AT&T would have charged me all of these years… 🙂

      Windows 10 Pro 22H2

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2291706

        Yeah. My bad on spacing out the VoIP end.  That’s embarrassing.  :/
        But your reply helped a lot.  Also, the useful trivia department thanks you for doing the math to come up with the $4,400 amount.  Shocking.  That’s new toys!
        Just imaging how much we would have saved had we only signed up for internet?
        No, you can’t make me do that math. 🙂

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2291733

          I can’t think of that stuff it makes me have to breathe into a paper bag.  My monopoly home ISP charges $80 per month and I’ve been paying since 2005, that’s $80 a month x 12 months a year x 15 years = $14,400 out of my pocket for something I would drop like a hot stone if I had anything better.  That’s a used car, nice motorcycle, so many things I could rather have done with that money, a business license is only $50 I could have built something with that money or made a difference in someone’s life but instead I spent it being frustrated at spinning browser progress.  I am trying to learn about p2p antennas and wireless ISP’s as a solution but I am still a long way off from that being reality.

          I have a router that has that type device built in.  There are the usual rj45 ports and two rj11 phone jacks that you can put a fax and a landline phone in the other.  The number on the sim card in the router is the phone number.  I replaced the landline with this a while ago never thought about how much I am saving since cancelling landline (maybe 5 or 6 years ago), I only think about the red column I guess.

    • #2290539

      Don’t buy a combo, get a separate modem and wifi router.  Yes, the terminology is really confusing.

      A modem that works fine with Xfinity, at least has for me for years is the Netgear CM600.  There are faster versions from the same family but the CM600 is good for just short of a Gbit/sec.  It’s a DOCSIS 3.0 modem.  DOCSIS 3.1 is the current standard, not needed for most connections, you’ll have to decide.   Comcast has an approved list, it’s fairly huge.

      Cable modem choice is easy, they’re all similar; wifi router choice is involved if you plan on feeding a number of devices all over a home while maintaining good performance.

      Wifi Router:  Unless you go to commercial routers, which are better in design, stability and speed (if you pay a lot), Netgear and Asus are the brands to consider.  Why?  They both have good models in your price range and more importantly, both can be run with open source software, Voxel for Netgear and Merlin for Asus. Important because Netgear’s firmware is fairly awful, good hardware though.  Asus has incorporated parts of Merlin in their firmware for years.  Hardware is good.

      Merlin and Voxel just install, very simple, the differences from stock are huge, no spyware (Netgear!) very stable, able to handle multiple devices with ease.  Definitely avoid parental controls, ad blockers, attached usb backups, etc., and just use the router as a router.  Setting DNS away from Xfinity in your router is a good idea, the others are best done elsewhere and take some cpu and memory away from routing.

      I have a Netgear R7000 with a Merlin fork on it and it’s wonderful, so glad to get rid of Netgear’s contracted out buggy firmware.  I also have a Netgear R7800 with Voxel, it’s better than stock but not the huge leap forward Merlin is.  Either will feed all three stories of our home with good speeds.  I fell into the R7800 and used it for a while, the R7000 has been our home router since 2016 and will remain until it dies, then the R7800 takes over.

      Anyway, go here for all you need to know about routers:
      https://www.snbforums.com/
      I’d pick an Asus model you like and install Merlin.  Merlin’s interface is almost identical to stock Asus.  Skip the other open source firmwares, router firmware fanaticism’s heyday has passed and most remaining are not that good compared to Merlin or Voxel.  Firmware has more effect on router performance than hardware.

      An access point usually refers to a wifi access point which is the wifi radio section of a wifi router.  The rest of the router, in simple terms is a switch, all the ethernet ports.   You can buy switches and separate access points or get both in a typical wifi router.  Hubs are not switches, hubs divide the connection speed among the cables connected, switches give full speed to each connection.

      I can completely turn off  my routers and still route full speed ethernet all over the house by replacing the router with a simple switch but there will be no wifi, of course.  The Netgear GS108 is a typical switch, one I use to double the number of ethernet ports available from our router.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2290651

        I would check third party s/w sites before forking out the $$. In the past some routers were better supported than others. I am not familiar w/ the two options mentioned however.

        🍻

        Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #2291710

          Thanks for the heads up on the software sites.
          Since time is running out I’ll get a better router later and play. 🙂

          Thanks for the reply,
          Gary

          “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

      • #2291709

        To Anonymous,
        I might hang out at https://www.snbforums.com/ just because.  Lots of info.

        And getting a combo just made me itchy.
        Thanks for all the input,
        Gary

         

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2290658

      I thought the standard now was those routers where it comes with three separate pieces that broadcast from different areas of the house instead of the classical one unit.  Pretty much any router can do what OP is asking without flashing firmware it’s not asking a lot.  I like tp-link and have wanted to do open source software but have been too lazy to reflash.  Not many of my devices have wireless AC cards so it depends what your needs are how fancy you get imo.  The one I have has lots of ram and a merlin chip.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2291712

        Thanks Billyjoy,

        I saw plenty of those multi piece setups.  Is there really a point?

        Thanks for your thoughts.  It looks like I might go with the cheaper end of the spectrum just to get up and running.  Then I have another year to get one of those nifty $450 jobs. 😉

        Thanks,
        Gary

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2290662

      I think that flashing routers is a bit beyond entry level usage, and may be unnecessary for the average user, but it’s good to know that there are options!

      Windows 10 Pro 22H2

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2291715

        Thanks John.  I couldn’t agree more on both points.
        Thanks for the feedback.
        Gary

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2290966

      Wow. 🙂

      It seems I forgot to tick the box to inform me of replies.
      I’ve been waiting days on a reply and now I have a lot to read.  Thanks to everyone!

      A little update, I did forgot to mention that I do have VoIP through a company called “phone.com”   Please take that as a suggestion, they’re very cool. For $14 a month they sent me a tiny Cisco router(?) that handles my land line. It takes up a DSL port and works great.
      My reason for wanting VoIP on the modem was as a fallback.  So, that can come off of the list.
      See, told you I was stressed LOL  How could I forget that?  (embarrassed face)

      FYI: I’ll probably never go over 25 Mbps.  I’m trying to keep my monthly bill around $30 for internet. Not to be cheap, but I got a royal thrashing when AT&T started punishing me  because I didn’t want to pay $115/mo for the 6 channels I watched and “cut the cord”.  First the VoIP cost was doubled, when I canceled VoIP my internet cost was doubled. So, Comcast came on board. AT&T is mean! Being nice here.

      I’ll shoot back a reply after I look at all the great suggestions to get a thumbs up or down from the group.

      Thanks to everyone for your input and help.
      Gary

      “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

      • This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by GLingner.
    • #2291021

      Lots of good suggestions here!
      And thanks for catching my VoIP blunder, also the great info.

      Something tells me a refurbished / “renewed” router would be bad thing?

      $6.00/mo for ooma. I might be changing VoIP carriers 🙂

      I checked the Comcast approved list and unless told otherwise I think I have my choices. Though my head is still spinnin’ 🙂

      Flashing… I’ve done that on my old Xyxel routers. Painless.

      Modems: (In the order I might go)
      ARRIS SB8200 | Model number: SB8200   $122.99
      Netgear CM600   $99.99
      Motorola MB8600 | Model number: MB8600   $58.99

      Routers: (confusion so no real order)   Refurb = bad or OK?   (Not trying to be cheap, I promise.)
      ASUS Wireless-AC1700   $89.99
      Netgear Nighthawk AC2100   $109.00
      ASUS RT-AX58U (RT-AX3000)   $179.00 (OR Refurb $140.00)
      ASUS RT-AC66U   $59.99 — refurb —
      Netgear Nighthawk (R6700) AC1750   $86.12
      Netgear AC1600   $75.58 (OR refurb $49.99)
      ASUS dualband ac1750   $64.99 — Refurb —
      Cisco Small Business RV130W $165.90

      Again, thank you all for your input and helping pick the winners. Everyone’s been so helpful.

      “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2291050

      Nothing wrong with used or refurb.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2291716

        Thanks for the confidence boost.
        As I might be getting the modem and router tonight this really helps.

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2291113

      I’d go the cheap modem, you only need a connection and it’s DOCSIS 3.1.

      You don’t need wifi and most of the cost is in wireless. An AC1700 will give you plenty of wifi for your phone / guests so a refurb or new ASUS seems to fit the bill.

      All up for $150 or less will get you going for a few more years at least.

      cheers, Paul

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2291722

        Hi Paul.

        It looks like you won.

        I’d go the cheap modem, you only need a connection and it’s DOCSIS 3.1.

        That pushed me over the edge. Plain and simple reply.

        An AC1700 will give you plenty of wifi for your phone / guests so a refurb or new ASUS seems to fit the bill.

        Hats off to you. The AC1700 looked pretty good to me too.

        Thanks again for your help. That’s rescue number 2. I’ll owe you soon lol
        Best regards,
        Gary

        “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” - Willy Wonka

    • #2291724

      Also, the useful trivia department thanks you for doing the math to come up with the $4,400 amount. Shocking. That’s new toys!

      That’s actually Ooma reminding me of the $$$$ saved since being a member, every time that I log onto their website.

      Cannot take credit for the math, LOL! 🙂

      Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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