New forum: Windows 7 beyond end-of-life

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There’s a lot of interest in keeping Win7 going after January 2020. So I just set up a forum specifically for that concern: https://www.askwoody.com/f
[See the full post at: New forum: Windows 7 beyond end-of-life]

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Kate, Elly, Steve, abbodi86, SueW, walker, deuce120, Pepsiboy, David F, MrChaz, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, wdburt1, FakeNinja, OscarCP, Microfix, Myst, LHiggins, Lars220, jburk07

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Woody, fyi that link took me to an old hardware forum post. I think this link works:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/forum/askwoody-support/windows/windows-7/win7-beyond-end-of-life/

Thanks for setting this up!

Linux Mint Cinnamon 21.1
Group A:
Win 10 Pro x64 v22H2 Ivy Bridge, dual boot with Linux
Win l0 Pro x64 v22H2 Haswell, dual boot with Linux
Win7 Pro x64 SP1 Haswell, 0patch Pro, dual boot with Linux,offline
Win7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Ivy Bridge, 0patch Pro,offline

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Kate, Lars220, Myst, woody

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Oooops. Change made.

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Kate, Elly, Myst, jburk07

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May I be the first to point out that the forum title “Window 7 beyond end-of-life” is a logical contradiction?

Admittedly, the more accurate “Windows 7 beyond what Microsoft considers to be end-of-life” is not particularly snappy…

BATcher

Plethora means a lot to me.

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Kate, Steve, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, jburk07, Myst, woody

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Win7 ‘Afterlife’ – borrow Webster’s definition – … ”a period of continued or renewed use, existence, or popularity beyond what is normal, primary, or expected”

MacOS iPadOS and sometimes SOS

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Kate, MrChaz, Cybertooth, Lars220, Microfix, jburk07, satrow, BATcher

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I was going to suggest a valve software title from 1998 with Gordon Freeman but ‘afterlife’ also has a nice ring to it, as in ancient egyptians and mumification 😉

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Kate, MrChaz, jburk07, Myst

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Are we talking about Microsoft keeping Windows 7 going beyond end of life?

Edit: Removed HTML, check in Text tab before posting. TY

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Kate

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Actually, we are talking about us, here at AskWoody, keeping Win7 alive after EOL. Microsoft wants everyone off Win7 ASAP, but as a group we intend to help those who don’t want to let go, keep safe and protected as long as we can. That’s what this is all about.

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Morty, cluffernut, Kate, Elly, SueW, deuce120, David F, MrChaz, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, Heavenly, LH, Cayennejim, FakeNinja, woody, jburk07, LHiggins, Myst, Microfix, satrow

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@pkcano Exactly!

MacOS iPadOS and sometimes SOS

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Kate

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Hmm..interesting challenge..I would love to see Steve Gibson involved too 🙂

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Kate, MrChaz, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, jburk07, Cybertooth, Myst

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Yep, Steve Gibson much to the consternation of Leo Laporte kept  his XP running security safe for years.  His “never ten” was great also.  W7 x64, home premium, home user.

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Kate, Steve, MrChaz, Microfix, woody, jburk07, Cybertooth, Myst

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Hey, Steve! If you’re watching, I’d love to work with you….

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Morty

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Reason I mentioned Steve Gibson is, his XP device went the way of the dodo..RIP
He then built a Win7 replacement System 😉 see #220652
IIRC he needed to spend more time working on/ updating spinrite.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Pim, Geo

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Getting information aggregated in one thread on: (a) how to install critical updates that might no longer be labelled “for Windows 7” (as people do it for XP, for example) and (b) software compatibility after EOL, is an excellent idea.

Although I have already alternatives to Windows: a Mac and also Linux in dual boot with Windows 7, to keep Windows 7 going on safely and as fully as possible is of considerable interest even so, because I have some quite useful software there that runs only on Windows, some of which does not need updating, and that I would like to keep using for as long as possible.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Kate, jburk07

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? says:

Windows Embedded POSReady 7 extended support is planned to end October 12, 2021. I used XP for 17 years (the last 5 years as POSReady) until the MSE updates were switched off. The last one i downloaded was on April 14th when i finally? put it to sleep and no i’m not going to get it out of the closet to install the “wormable flaw,” patch, unless…

personally, i’m quite tired of fighting microsoft and rather enjoy the more user friendly linux

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deuce120, David F, OscarCP, jburk07, Microfix

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Well for enterprise/volume licensing customers with windows 7 there is the Extended Security updates until 2023 option. And maybe Microsoft needs to be legally required to offer that to any consumers with older PC/Laptop hardware that can not ever be expected to make the transition to windows 10.

So laptops, more than PCs that are hardware upgradeable, come with discrete mobile GPUs that are BGA packaged and soldered onto the laptop’s Motherboard. CPUs on laptops are moctly BGA also and soldered to the Laptop’s MB. But some laptops do ship with Socketed CPUs(Business Grade Laptops mostly) and there are the portable workstation(laptops) that ship with both socketed CPUs and an upgradable GPUs on an MXM card.

But really the vast majority of laptops are not CPU/GPU hardware upgradable and if that old laptop hardware(The Discrete Mobile GPU hardware mostly) can never work properly on Windows 10/Windows 10’s WDDM(Windows Display Driver Model) that’s a problem. So any OEM PC or Laptop is going to get at its design/certification phase, only after the hardware is ready,  certified for the OS that was in active(Mainstream Support) use at the device’s time of manufacture.

And any laptop/laptop’s hardware is only going to be vetted/certified by its OEM for that one OS version(that was in mainstream support) at that laptop’s time of manufacture. OEM laptop graphics drivers are the most problematic with the GPU’s OEM and the Laptop’s OEM working together to get that hardware certified for the OS that was in mainstream support at the time the laptop was scheduled for consumer release.

So why should any PC/laptop hardware be rendered unprotected if that hardware can not be certified/vetted for windows 10. Microsoft needs to be required to offer the consumer the same extended windows 7 security extnded update package at a fair price if that consumer’s laptop hardware(GPUs and Integrated Graphics mostly is the issue) is not able run properly in an OEM vetted/certifiable manner for windows 10.

Both AMD and Nvidia make GPUs for laptops(Discrete Mobile GPUs as opposed to integrated GPUs) and there are many GPU generations that shipped on laptops that where only vetted/certified for windows 7/8/8.1. Now many of these AMD and Nvidia Mobile/Laptop GPUs are mostly in their legacy status and no longer getting any new graphics driver support or new updates from AMD/Nvidia. And for Laptops in the first place, it’s the Laptop’s OEM that works with AMD and Nvidia(Discrete Mobile GPUs) and Intel/AMD also for the Integrated Graphics(on the CPU’s processor die) that ship with most OEMs laptop products.

Laptop OEMs mostly are creating some custom variants of the AMD/Nvidia provided graphics driver package and the CPU makers’ integrated Graphics also to get all that working properly for switchable(Integrated/Discrete Mobile) graphics on the OEM’s laptop SKUs and the laptop’s OEM is the one having to take the GPU maker’s graphics drivers and add a compatability layer on top that tagrets the Laptop OEM’s specific make/model of Laptop SKU. The Laptop’s OEM and GPU Maker work with Microsoft to get that all vetted/certified for whatevr windows OS version that was in its mainstream OS support at that specific time frame when that laptop SKU was manufactured.

So there is not much chance on any Laptop OEMs going through any extra expense of re-vetting /re-certifying some 5-10 years old laptops that the OEM’s sold in an effort to get that mostly legacy hardware’s Integrated/Discrete Mobile Graphics dirvers working properly on windows 10.

I’m sure going to wait and see for a few months at least after Jan 2020 and continue to use windows 7 without security updates unless there is some zero day actively being exploited in the wild. But I have one Ivy Bridge generation laptop and 2 Sandy Bridge Laptops and one  Intel First generation Core i series “Arrandale” Mobile core i3 based laptop.

It’s bad enough that both AMD and Nvidia are not supporting windows 8/8.1 very much at all and are no longer supporting windows 7 for CPUs and GPUs. But I’m ready to see Microsoft taken to court by users of older laptop hardware that will not work properly under windows 10 and see Mirosoft required to offer consumers that same extended windows 7 security updates package that the enterprise and volume licensing customers are offered for a fair price for those extended windows 7 security updates until 2023.

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Kate, Elly, columbia2011, woody

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The deal offered to those running the Enterprise version is that they’ll get support for a few more years past next January, if they pay an annual amount that can increase, year after year, when it comes time to renew the deal. This is mainly to help those Enterprise users that may not be able to get ready or, for some reason or other, may want to make the transition after January of next year.

I don’t know that many home and small business users will like to agree to that kind of deal.

It makes business sense for MS to ask for payment for the extended support, as they will have to pay people, utilities, etc. to get the job done of maintaining a product they no are no longer supposed to support after 10 years of its original release (as agreed by the users in the EULA, I think; can someone confirm this?)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Kate

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Replying to OscarCP. Really the Windows 7 Enterprise version of Windows is just extra features enabled above the Windows 7 pro version. So that’s not an issue as far as windows 7 is concerned. And windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 are the same under the hood mostly with Windows 8/8.1 getting all that TIFKAM/Modern/RT tacked on top of what is essentially Windows 7’s plumbing. And Windows 8’s WDDM( Windows Display Driver Model) version is a minor upgarde over windows 7’s WDDM. Windows 10’s WDDM has undergone more revisions than all the previous Winsows version combined and WDDM started with Windows Vista.

The very reason that MS can continue to offer Enterprise/Volume licensing customers security updates for 7 at such a low cost is that MS already has to support Windows 8/8.1 until 2023 and Win 8.1(Win 8 has been deprecated in favor of 8.1) is not that different from Win 7.

You must remember that any enterprise has mission critical software and that mission critical software has to be tested and vetted to work on any new OS/OS version at great costs. So it’s actually a great bargain for any enterprise to very gladly take the extended until 2023 windows 7 update option at is a small price compared to the great costs of certifying mission critical softwre for any new OS/OS version.

But for any cosnumers that own a perfectly good and working Laptop with older GPU hardware, that can not be updated like on PCs, that extended windows 7 security updates option at a fair price may be the only opton short of installing some Linux dsitro with its learning curve compared to a windows 7 that most consumers are more accustomed to using.

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Kate

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If Microsoft stops patching the holes, that doesn’t mean you the user can’t be more vigilant about stopping stuff before it attacks those holes. A modern browser, good security suite, smart thinking user to recognize threats. I mean if the police stopped protecting your neighborhood I am pretty sure you would take matters to do something yourself.  If I had a older PC that ran better on Windows 7 or even XP I would use it as long as I could be comfortable keeping it safe.

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Kate, Nibbled To Death By Ducks, OscarCP

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I plan to keep going with Windows 7 as long as the hardware in the PC holds out. I’m going to image it once a week and turn off Windows update. Images will be kept on a secure non connected HHD and if any malware or virus get through, boot to recovery and restore image.

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Kate

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Maybe if your CPU hardware supports it install some Linux Kernel based Hypervisor facility like Xen/KVM and then host your windows 7 OS as a guest OS/VM hosted OS instance with the Windows 7 instance isolated from the internet. So you are installing the Linux kernel based Hypervisor on your PC and then Installing Windows 7 as a guest OS and isolating it from the internet. You can also run a Guest Linux OS Distro of your choice and a Windows 7 Guest OS at the same time while keeping Windows 7 isolated from the Internet after 2020.

There where/are many enterpriese doing that with XP, after XP’s EOL, for ruuning any legacy software that could not be run on Windows Vista/later OSs. It’s the same for 7 as it was for XP and many enterprises will be doing that also with windows 7 after 2020-2023.

The Linux Kernel based Hypervisor facility can support multiple OSs and OS instances so you can run any number of OSs at the same time depending on you PC’s hardware resources. The nice thing about a hypervisor hosted instance is that is easy to spin up and new pristine OS image and run as many OSs/OS versions at the same time if your PC’s hardware is powerful enough.

Most CPUs support those virtualization ISA extentions and even cell phones can be virtualized that way for enterprise employees to use their personal phones for work and home use by running 2 different OSs(one for work and one for home) on their cell phones.

(1)

“Hypervisor”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor

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Thanks for the suggestion…very useful info.

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Probably the first thing that people running any Windows OS should do if they haven’t already is not logon with administrator rights for normal access.

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Morty, Kate

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