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Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it. |
ISSUE 20.36.1 • 2023-09-07 By Susan Bradley On October 10, 2023, the Home and Pro editions of Windows 11 21H2 will no longer be supported by Microsoft
[See the full post at: MS-DEFCON 2: Windows 11 21H2 nears end of life]
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
The manufacturer provided a temporary workaround that involved reverting the BIOS to a previous version and uninstalling the problematic Windows update (KB5029351 for Windows 11 and KB5029331 for Windows 10).
“I give up. I can’t keep track of all the dribbled hardening; tweaks; or second, third, and fourth deployments of this or that patch. I can’t devote time and space in the Master Patch list to keep track of these enforced mandates…”
A few months back I commented that Windows 11 is not for the average person. The fact that the above quote refers to business, does not change my mind. For people who make keeping track of Windows a…passion, spending hours, yes hours, a week trying to keep up with Microsoft and their assorted insanity has become too much. It also is creating another problem.
The days of looking forward to a new version of software have long since lost their luster. Home users prefer stability over the bleeding edge and unfortunately Microsoft has now offered a binary solution. Either become a full time software engineer patching and avoiding their latest software or do nothing and become a security risk. In my opinion Microsoft is foisting the latter option as mainstream.
Just in my extended family we have approx fifty Windows machines. These are used for everything from simple email, word processing and simple spreadsheets to gaming and video editing. While those users on the right side of that spectrum (the minority) are willing to handle the driver updates, patches, purchases of additional software to make their windows software functional the vast majority are not going to do that and they will become the host for the next generation of malware.
Another problem is the graying of technology. Those people who were early adopters of tech are no longer keeping their tech knowledge up to date. This means using solutions that might have been viable in the 80s and 90s but now introduce problems. While businesses can afford to hire professionals who have kept their knowledge up to date, what happens when the home users exceed the knowledge of the local “Geek Squad?”
Perhaps an honest assessment of the true cost to run a Windows 11 machine in 2023/2024 is needed? True cost in terms of purchase, maintenance, extra software and time needed to keep a Windows 11 machine with Microsoft 365 applications running safely for a year based on recommendations made here on “Ask Woody.” My unscientific look at it says it will be several hundred dollars a year (not counting purchase of a base PC, electricity, and assuming that Windows 11 home came with the PC). In my own multi-generation home the cost extends to well over a thousand dollars a year for legally used tech (i.e. no bootleg software or shared licenses).
Maybe it’s time for a real look at whether a home user needs these machines anymore or multiple PCs in a household?
Perhaps an honest assessment of the true cost to run a Windows 11 machine in 2023/2024 is needed? True cost in terms of purchase, maintenance, extra software and time needed to keep a Windows 11 machine with Microsoft 365 applications running safely for a year based on recommendations made here on “Ask Woody.” My unscientific look at it says it will be several hundred dollars a year
Not even close. Averaging out the hardware costs over the years of service of said hardware brings that annualized cost extremely low, ~$130/yr for my daily driver, and that goes down a bit every year. The Power Panel software that came with my UPS calculates my yearly electrical cost at $58.04, and this machine is always on. That’s ~$188/year for hardware and power, and that decreases every year that I continue to run the same hardware.
When running Windows 7 Ultimate I setup my routine maintenance regimen as tasks in Task Scheduler. That was a dozen years ago, took less than an hour, and through all the upgrades and updates through Windows 11 Pro 22H2, those tasks are still working. Annualized effort for software maintenance hours comes out to 8.78 X 10ˉ⁶. I bought StartIsBack for $3.99 when I upgraded to Windows 8. That remained viable all the way through Windows 10 22H2. StartAllBack for Windows 11 was $4.99, updates are free.
Microsoft 365 is $99.99 annually, and I have yet to have an issue with it. I bought Revo Uninstaller with a lifetime license years ago, and updates are free. I bought TeraByte Image For Windows way, way, way back. Updates are free, home use allows for installation on five machines in my household under the same license. Annualized, those are a pittance. I have Malwarebytes Premium, bought while a lifetime license was still available, so annualized, that also is a pittance.
… based on recommendations made here on “Ask Woody.”
I follow my own advice. By having regular and frequent drive images to fall back on, I readily download and install every update offered by Windows Update as soon as it is available. I block driver updates via Group Policy, but nothing else. All of my installations are fully updated, and I have never had a “problem” update, nor any hiccups after any update.
I’ve been running Windows since 3.1. My first PC was a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A. I was writing code for a time-share mainframe in the mid-70’s for my job (my job wasn’t writing code, but I needed my own programs as part of my job). It would be very difficult to not learn anything about personal computers after all these years.
I’m not an average user, but a lot of what I do can be fairly easily assimilated by the average user who wants to. I’m “the IT guy” for my family and friends, and no one has called me for help since Windows 10. A few years ago I helped a friend with the PC at his store, which was running Vista. I installed the Service Pack without issue. A little over a year later, one of the applications used for the store sent out notice that it had upgraded its system requirements to Windows 7. So I upgraded his Windows Vista-Service Pack 1 to Windows 7, without issue. The software he runs is provided by the vendors with whom he does business. His annualized costs are basically the electrical power; his PC is a Gateway. His personal laptop runs Windows 11, setup with the OOBE, and he has had no issues with it.
While I don’t doubt the sincerity of your reply, you’ve made my point most eloquently. Even with the “lifetime” licensing you were able to obtain “years ago.” You figure still comes out to more than a hundred dollars a year.
You admit that you are not the average user in 2023. The average user in 2023 is far less savvy than you are with your decades of experience.
As for the rest. This site is often recommended by people who need advice and help with Windows issues. Yet, most of the people who replied to this seem openly hostile to the idea that Microsoft is not operating in the best interest of consumers. While I will not go as far to ask how many have “I heart Micro$oft” tattoos it is the general impression I get.
As I said in the original post. This was my unscientific viewpoint. Personally, having just updated 4 PCs in my friends households, who in 2023 are not fortunate enough to have your experience or “lifetime” licensing but must pay the toll for those software packages each year. I didn’t even mention the hours on the phone to Microsoft to get a copy of a Windows license (the owner purchased Windows 11 at NewEgg) and lost the packaging and since Microsoft didn’t maintain it on their website a failed hard drive wanted to force him to purchase another copy.
I’ve also have very few problems with 365. Even though for the “average user” the first version of Word and Multiplan worked just as well. At that time average users installed the packages and used them for the lifetime of the machine in most cases.
But then what do I know, I started using Windows in 1986 when it was still a new product.
Microsoft and every other big tech company operates in their own best interest. If that happens to coincide with what is in the best interest of consumers, they get to crow about it. Other tech companies that are more dependent on retail consumers than Microsoft do a much better PR job. Do not be fooled by the PR.
I hope I am not hostile to any viewpoint that is reasonable. It may seem to you that I and others are Microsoft apologists but for the most part, we’d rather get something done, help someone out, or figure out a problem than spend so much time and energy bashing Microsoft for any of their many faults.
BTW, bbearren’s cost included annualizing the initial hardware cost. That is there for anyone who has a computer.
--Joe
For gpedit.msc
Win10: (See the first screenshot here)
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update
Do not include drivers with Windows Update = Enabled
For Win11:
gpedit.msc
Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Manage updates offered from Windows Update
Do not include drivers with Windows Update = Enabled
These phases in items I’ve now documented on the patch page has NOTHING to do with windows 11 and they are business domain adjustments that have to be made.
Windows 11i is not the problem I am referring to.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
https://www.askwoody.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Followuppatches.htm
That has nothing to do with windows 11
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
First, have you changed settings in Group Policy (if you have Pro) or the Registry (if you have Home or Pro) to stay on 21H2. Or, run Susan’s script to do so?
If that isn’t the case, before you try a repair install, try these three things (if you haven’t done so before):
Open an elevated command prompt (run as Administrator).
chkdsk /f
You will have to reboot and it will run on startup.
Then open an elevated command prompt and run:
DISM /Online Cleanup-image /RestoreHealth
sfc /scannow
If you are running a third party A/V, turn it off or disable it.
See if you are offered 22H2.
If not, then try the repair install over the top. Choose to keep your apps and data.
This site is often recommended by people who need advice and help with Windows issues. Yet, most of the people who replied to this seem openly hostile to the idea that Microsoft is not operating in the best interest of consumers.
Rest assured, while there are some praetorian guards here who leap into action at the sight of a criticism of Microsoft, there are MANY of us on this forum who are not enamored of certain Microsoft policies or practices.
I was looking in WuMgr to see what patches I have installed on my Windows 11 Pro 21H2 machine, and I noticed that patch KB4023057 was installed back in 5/9/2023, before I even got WuMgr for vetting patches.
…
Is there anything else I should be on the lookout for, or be concerned about, since this patch is already installed, since it should have been avoided?
With regards to patch KB4023057, please see the following posts from @PKCano and @sb (Susan Bradley):
PKCano’s post and Susan’s reply to PKCano’s post.
Historically, folks have had issue with this patch because it has the potential (per MS’s own admission throughout it’s release history) to modify Windows settings dealing directly with Windows Update to allow updates to install seamlessly. That term’s exact definition has been up to MS’s discretion. That potential includes changing update settings so that you get updates installed without being able to prevent or delay them. It is because of this potential that I have chosen to not install this update. Others here have made the same choice for the same reason, or for other reasons.
I put the word “potential” in italics above for emphasis. Why? Because I do not currently recall seeing any reports of anyone having their settings to control the download and subsequent installation of monthly updates changed by that update here on AskWoody.
I have seen reports here of folks having the update installed and it not changing a single one of their settings with regards to the installation of updates, including those who delay their updates until sometime after the monthly Patch Tuesday.
In a nutshell, as you’ve been able to surmise, the basic purpose of KB4023057 is to “grease the skids” of a machine to help with the installation of updates.
MS probably sees the single biggest problem with regards to the successful installation of updates as a lack of enough disk space to work with while installing an update. However, in their language describing exactly what the update can do to ensure successful update installation, they seem to have left themselves some wiggle room, should they decide at some point that there’s an update that every single Windows machine has to have immediately no matter what.
By the way, should you decide that you should have not allowed the patch to install, it should be able to be uninstalled easily.
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