Patch Lady Susan Bradley says she managed to get all of the October patches installed without incident. I’m still waiting on reports about the massive
[See the full post at: MS-DEFCON 2: Still waiting on results for the Win10 cumulative updates]
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Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it. |
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MS-DEFCON 2: Still waiting on results for the Win10 cumulative updates
- This topic has 64 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 7 months ago.
AuthorViewing 15 reply threadsAuthor-
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The one dated 2018. The other one (v1) is dated 2016).
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OldBiddy, the inconsistency is in the point of view. Woody’s POV says -v2 is not needed yet because Woody has not advised to apply the October updates yet. Your POV is trying to understand something that Woody has not yet written.
Two paths are available. Wait for Woody to give his usual thorough directions in his own time; or follow usual patterns to update without MS-DEFCON approved directions.
Others have posted many times that -v2 is needed. PKCano is holding back from giving that an ‘official’ blessing.
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I believe v2 will be a prerequisite in the future because it is classified as a “Security” update where v1 was optional. And I think Windows Update will look for that.
But I am not an MS expert and cannot accurately predict what they intend.
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I did notice that the Belarc Advisor on my machine shows the yet to be installed KB3177467 v2 as a “Critical Security Update,” whereas the rest are listed as “Important.”
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I don’t install anything other than the main updates installed on the second week. I don’t “seek” updates, I just install the second week and ignore anything else. If you don’t seek updates — at least right now — I’m not getting the second cumulative update installed.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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Windows 7 updates. No changes in catalog dates.
Currently shown in catalog, x86 (32-bit), x64 (64-bit):
KB4462923 last updated 10/15/2018:
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=4462923KB3177467 last updated 10/8/2018:
https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/search.aspx?q=3177467On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
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Woody
I am a little confused. I am running Windows 7 on my laptop. Should I wait to update or is it OK to run the updates?
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Keep an eye on the MS-DEFCON indicator at the top of the page, when it switches to 3 or 4 it will be safe to patch.
Instructions will then be given on methodology of patching, just in case there are any pitfalls!Windows - commercial by definition and now function... -
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Information on Win7 2018-10 Rollup KB4462923 See #227020 above.
In a Win7 test VM:
+ Initially offered KB4092483 (Office 2010), KB4022138 (PP Viewer), KB4459922 (2018-10 .NET Rollup), KB890830 (MSRT) – Installed 4 updates, rebooted.
+ Offered KB3177467 v2 (10/09/2018) CHECKED important update – Installed, no reboot required.
+ Check for updates – no important updates offered. Offered UNCHECKED optional updates KB4462927 (2018-10 Preview Rollup for Win7), KB4462500 (2018-10 .NET Preview)
+ Hid KB4462927 (2018-10 Preview Rollup for Win7), checked for updates – no important updates offered. Offered UNCHECKED optional updates KB4457139 (2018-09 Preview Rollup for Win7)
+ Hid KB4457139 (2018-09 Preview Rollup for Win7), checked for updates – offered UNCHECKED important update KB4462923 (2018-10 Rollup for Win7).KB4457139 (2018-09 Preview) did not show up in the hidden updates. I unhid KB4462927 (2018-10 Preview) and KB4462923 (2018-10 Rollup) remained as an UNCHECKED important update, even after rebooting.
Now that’s finagling!
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The seemingly conflicting patch advice/recommendations presented on this site since Susan Bradley joined the crew can be confusing, obviously is contradictory and perhaps needlessly laying the foundation for an avoidable widespread patching failure among users of this site.
It is my opinion, Woody and Susan need to get together and decide which of them is going to announce patch readiness.
Opinions are fine, personal experience with particular patches on one’s own system(s) is fine as long as it is denoted as being a preliminary observation and may not be actual advice for someone else to go ahead and do the same.
I like the Woody’s DEFCON system. I appreciate his air of cautious skepticism and his apparent focus on the average home Windows based computer user. Susan’s business/IT focus and seeming greater degree of risk acceptance (perhaps justified for those operating environments), I do not think blends well on this site, that I assume receives very few business/IT system administrator visits.
Two planes heading to the same destination on different courses, a crash is inevitable unless there is one controller per frequency issuing instructions.
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Thanks for the observation.
A big part of the problem is that I need to make it clear that there are two different groups of AskWoody readers — those who want it simple (and cautious) vs. those who are willing to wade through the details., and take a few extra chances.
We have a big change coming to the site, although I haven’t figured out what the change will entail.
Once I have the framework figured out, this will be one of the first pieces I’ll tackle.
Hang in there. If you need to keep your network updated, and don’t mind working through some rough spots, take Susan’s advice. If you want to stay easy and cautious, follow the ms defcon rating.
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Also, another observation if I may. There are three groups of people on this site looking for guidance – Win 7, Win 8, Win 10. I am Win 7. I think there needs to be some delineation among the three groups. Patching instructions and DEFCON seem to bunch everyone together and it is unclear which group is being addressed which can be confusing. My machines are Win 7. I have no interest in Win 8 or Win 10. I come here for instructions and guidance for Win 7. The waters get really muddy at times when a thread is not specific to one OS and you’re trying to figure out which OS is being discussed, sometimes all three OS’s are in a thread and sometimes even Linux or Mac. You have to read a long thread and pick out what is pertinent to your OS. And even then, there are different views.
Your post above, #227048 is a bit troubling (no idea about Win 7 updates). What then am I to do? I gather from other posts that 3177467 v2 is needed and seems safe to install. That is the only patch that has been offered for a couple of weeks. And that 4462923 will not be offered until I install 3177467 v2. I wait until the Saturday before Patch Tuesday to patch provided DEFCON is 3 or higher
Perhaps this site has grown beyond one-size-fits-all and needs to be more granular so as to not be so confusing at times.
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@redknight – The great majority of confusion is because of Microsoft, not the askwoody site.
My machines are Win 7 also, and I have no interest in Win 8, 8.1, or 10 other than that reading about their [issues] can actually be very entertaining at times (not to make light of the trouble users of those OSs endure).
Every month when a new set of updates come out, I make a list of the ones that apply to me and write them down and then memorize the last 4 digits of each. It’s not that hard as there are usually only 3 or so updates that I want/need. That way I can filter out what’s relevant to me as a skim through threads. I will note, though, that typically the great majority of useful info about Win 7 will be found in just a small handful of threads, which threads I will usually bookmark.
The whole thing is a process and a waiting game. I usually don’t have a firm “game plan” until a couple days before I install patches, and I usually wait to install until a few days after Woody announces Defcon 3 or higher.
Is it a pain in the neck? Is it a waste of my time? Do I wish I could just install the patches the day they come out? A resounding YES to all those questions. Unfortunately life just isn’t that clean and simple in the patch world of MS. I put up with it because for a variety of reasons I have to. But when EOL for Win 7 comes in about 14 months, my machines will no longer be on the internet and will be used for just a few specialty things. No big deal since I already have an iMAC and Ubuntu 16.04 LTS in regular use.
If/when you are sick of it all, just follow PKCano’s advice above!
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Information here is made available regarding patches, versions, pitfalls, and advisories. Determine your skill set, your needs, and patch accordingly.
On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender
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There is a big difference between the two environments here.
Susan is mainly working with Businesses. They have the advantage of Servers more or less acting as a buffer for the updates. They also have multiple machines, so test PC(s) are available. But with the volume, they are up against a timetable.
Woody is dealing with the consumer in general, who may have 1-2 machines. If those users jump ahead and use their machines for testing, the consequences are a lot higher. (Lose the use of the PC, don’t know how t fix it themselves) Thus the extra need for caution by waiting a bit longer.
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I’m not Enterprise, I’m Windows 10 1803 pro, Windows 7 at a small business. I do not use registry cleaners. I don’t install more than one a/v on my systems (and I stay away from Avast that has historically had issues with early feature releases of Windows 10. I do make sure that machines are on Pro so one can push off feature releases and even security updates. I do ensure that I have backups on every workstations (yes even in the office) so that should something go wrong, I can recover. If I don’t have trust in my backup/recovery – even at home – I can’t recover from ransomware. So if you don’t trust that you can’t recover from a bad patch, then you can’t recover from anything. The first rule of technology — in ANY situation home – or office – is if you don’t trust that you can’t recover from anything bad whether that bad thing is patches or an attack, then you aren’t in a good place. My comment about a fleet full of HP is due to the BSOD’s on some HP models that had issues with a driver that was installed. That driver didn’t get installed on my machines Lastly, I think the other rule of windows 10 is NEVER EVER EVER GO SEARCHING FOR UPDATES. Searchers get previews of updates, they get drivers, they get microcode updates. Don’t do the Windows 7 era “searching for updates” on a Windows 10 machine.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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Good point Arvy. I’m not suggesting that either Susan or Woody is intentionally muddling the advice waters. I read this site everyday and am perfectly capable of choosing whose advice recommendations I should follow. I’m pretty computer savvy and I can tell the difference between a fix that is needed imminently or a fix that I can safely delay for a month or longer based on how I use my system(s).
There are lots of links to this site from articles published elsewhere such as Computerworld. People directed here from those articles or by recommendations from friends and colleagues, may or may not take the time to read enough posts to be in the same position to differentiate the different focus or emphasis put forward by the two primaries. Those with the ability to defer updates should be in a position to understand the risks or potential pitfalls if you will of updating today or in two weeks time. However, reading some of these divergent posts out of context could conceivably lead someone to update when there really is no pressing need to do so and the chances of any given patch removing their network card, entering a boot loop or deleting their files, is not close enough to zero for most people’s tastes.
My original observation was merely to point out that a mixed message is being presented and the authors appear to be assuming that the reader understands and can sort the wheat from the chaff using a posting history and self declared emphasis that the reader may not have actually read or been asked to read before committing to any apparent piece of advice or recommendation.
My point has been brought to the forefront and I am sure that in due course both primaries will take steps to ensure that the causal readers of this site understand who is writing to which targeted audience.Edit to remove HTML. Please use the “Text” tab in the entry box when you copy/paste.
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The site and discussions here are useful to everyone, including IT administrators at all levels, but should not be seen as the only source of information for them.
However I agree that it may be misleading at times to the casual administrator browsing and not understanding the context.
Susan’s advice is targeted mainly to the small business, while the bigger enterprise administrators are supposed to be able to make up their mind and decide based on their own judgement. -
And many of them have their own patch deadlines that they are mandated to do via policy or PCI/DSS etc.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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My take is that Woody looks at the entire hay stack. In contrast, the Patch Lady looks at the individual straws. For several years, I’ve found them both to be valid app0roaches and have had no problems with either one.
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Patch Lady Susan Bradley says she managed to get all of the October patches installed without incident. I’m still waiting on reports about the massive[See the full post at: MS-DEFCON 2: Still waiting on results for the Win10 cumulative updates]
I am on a mission that I was told can’t be done on Windows10 Home Edition. I am attempting to block any Windows updating until I feel ready to update. Of course this means I am at dire risk, maybe not. I know the pitfalls and what not to do that would invite disaster. Have full back-ups, sole user and my AV and Firewall are utd. Screen shot of programs dashboard included.
Installed 10/21/2018, so not conclusive if it works or not … yet. Version 1803xxx165 and holding. Will keep y’all informed.
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Yes, it can be done. See https://www.computerworld.com/article/3138088/microsoft-windows/woodys-win10tip-block-forced-win10-updates.html
Okay Woody, I concede you partially (poor choice of words) win this round. I am the odd man out when it comes to Microsoft’s Windows10 Home. I am not a standard Windows “do as they say user.” I gutted Cortana, I don’t use Windows Outlook email, I do not ever open IE. I have rid my machine of One Drive and do not have a Microsoft account. I know I am leaving other things out I have either deleted or just do not use at all. To me Windows is only an OS, with some neat built in progs, such as Paint, nothing more. I’ve had this discussion in my 1st post. Other than the metered trick both WiFi and Ethernet, the replies mostly said “sorry, you are out of luck” (paraphrased of course) Told I couldn’t use the GPedit I installed because it most likely wouldn’t work anyway because I had the Home Edition. In the link you provided only 2 things could possibly stall for a while the updates, one being a 2 prong registry edit to extend deferral and the other one I actually found humorous:
“Step 4B (recommended): Give up already. Life’s too short to futz with all this stuff. Buy a Wi-Fi dongle, stick it in your computer, and use Wi-Fi for your internet connection. Yes, it’s slower. Yes, it takes up a USB port. But think of all the hassle you’ll save.”
Should you or anyone care to have a look-see at what I am trying, and it is considered total fodder in the minds of those who forgot more than I will ever know about Windows, I will humbly bow to the mighty Microsoft. I won’t like it, but I will. If the program I am trying, works … think of the hassle I will save
btw, I had meter selected (both) and I still got upgraded to 1803. <shrug>
Bluetrix <——— ducks
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I fear that those of us who are calling for Microsoft to improve the quality control of its patching process are probably doomed. Yesterday Microsoft became the second most valuable company in the world, after Amazon and Google stumbled. That was on the back of results showing strong profits from their cloud services and their PC business, which is effectively a monopoly. Faced with the blaze of appreciation from the market that these results produced, the chances of their management being remotely interested in our complaints about revenue free maintenance of what they probably regard as a legacy product are vanishingly small.
There is no effective competition in the PC OS market. At the beginning of last century our predecessors saw the results of that, e.g. in the US oil market, and did something about it. As has often been said, those who do not read the lessons of history are condemned to repeat its mistakes.
Chris
Win 10 Pro x64 Group A -
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Interestingly, these updating issues appear to be getting more coverage. I just received the AskLeo.com email newsletter by Leo Notenboom with the subject line, Ask Leo! #728 – Microsoft, We Deserve Better.
He topics included this one that is on his website: Microsoft, We Deserve Better – Updates to Windows seemingly can’t be trusted, and yet they’re forced on us. Something must change. https://askleo.com/microsoft-we-deserve-better/#comment-615613
I recently even read an article in the Washington Post that touched upon the MS update issue. Unfortunately, I can not locate it, either online or in the newspaper recycling bin.
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