• Moving to the dark side …

    Home » Forums » AskWoody support » Windows » Windows 11 » Questions about Windows 11 » Moving to the dark side …

    Author
    Topic
    #2400612

    I’m a long-long-time Windows user but I have recently decided to use a MacBook as my main (home) PC. I’ve considered the idea before and have always rejected it, but a few things seem to have come together to push me in this direction. It’s easy to stay with Windows, it’s comfortable and known, and the flip-side is that the MacOS interface appears confusing and unknown. However, I’ve realised that to properly assess a MacBook I need to do the hard work and use MacOS for a few months and learn my way around. It’s potentially a very expensive experiment, but I’m techy, have done my homework, and believe it will work long-term.

    What’s changed for me?

    First the Windows 11 release. Let’s call it what it is. Basically Windows 10 with some (mildly) enforced hardware requirements and a ridiculously redesigned start menu. I rarely use the start menu as I pin my frequent apps to the taskbar, so a poorly designed start menu does not really seem to be a strong enough reason to drop Windows. However, in my view, Microsoft treats its Windows customer base very poorly and I’m just tired of being continually disappointed. Perhaps the lousy start menu was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

    I don’t think this attitude from Microsoft will change in the near term. These days Windows is largely built and maintained for business users that need to run their Win32 applications. Microsoft could produce a Windows 12 start menu with invisible grey-on-grey buttons that you need to triple-click with your elbow to launch an app, and businesses would dutifully upgrade as soon as Windows 11 reached EOL! They have no choice. This monopoly situation does not lead to innovation or good design. Or customer care.

    Further, home-user needs have changed dramatically over the past 10 years. An example from my own life is my wife’s computing needs. She used to enjoy surfing the web on a Windows laptop. About a year ago she switched to just using her cell phone. Now the only time her Windows laptop gets used is when I turn it on once a month to patch it!

    Which leads to my second point, the rise of the cell phone. I too use my phone increasingly in everyday life, but I’m a power user and so I also need a PC. Ideally I need a PC which links naturally to my phone, and as an iPhone user that leads me to a MacBook. If I used an Android phone then perhaps my choice would be different, but it’s interesting, isn’t it, how the phone is driving my requirements?

    Finally, my experience with Apple over the years has been very good. I’ve found their different products to be reliable. Sure, they do sometimes break things with patches and its often not good to be a first adopter of an OS upgrade, but their track record seems better than Microsoft’s. Apple does have the advantage of controlling both hardware and software, which I believe reduces issues.

    I’m not completely abandoning Microsoft, on my MacBook I’ll still use the Microsoft Office suite (MacOS version) and probably a VM with Windows 11 to run the few applications I would like to keep that require Windows. Also I still have other Windows machines in the house. So I’m hardly going cold-turkey!

    To be honest, I’m kind of looking forward to the adventure! I’m certainly not advocating a mass switch away from Windows as my decision is personal and would not suit everyone. I can, however, report back in 3 to 6 months on my experiment if people are interested.

    P.S. To be clear, I have no association with Apple except that I own an iPhone!
    P.P.S. I drafted this note prior to the recent 2021-11-08 AskWoody Newsletter (and the small article on the new MacBooks), but must confess that Apple’s new hardware line-up is another attraction that I did not mention above.

     

    4 users thanked author for this post.
    Viewing 6 reply threads
    Author
    Replies
    • #2400668

      The last desktop I bought for myself was a Dell Inspiron 580 (Core i5 4GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Windows 7 Home Premium) to replace two DIY PC’s that perished in a house fire in January, 2011.  The last laptop I bought for myself was a Dell Latitude E5420 (Core i5, 8GB RAM, Windows 7 Pro) for work in 2011.

      With the 590, I upgraded Windows to Pro, then restored the drive images for my daily driver desktop that I lost in the fire.  That was the quickest way to get back up and running.  The other PC was my bench machine, where I experimented with my slicing, dicing and reconstructing of Windows 7.

      The Inspiron 580 had very little expansion room but it was on sale when I bought it.  I added a second 1TB HDD to bring it up to the specs of my old daily driver.  When I began to get constrained by the limited space inside the Inspiron 580, I started parts shopping for a new DIY.  With DIY, I can get the hardware/features I want without any extraneous, useless stuff that OEM’s seem to love to add.

      DIY Apple is not a thing.  For the price of an Apple desktop with the features and hardware I want, I can build two Windows PC’s and have some change left over.  Expandability with any Apple is somewhat limited, at best.  As far as Windows Update issues, I block drivers with Group Policy, and take everything else offered.  I rely on a library of drive images for backup, should problems ensue, but so far, I haven’t had any of consequence since the release of Windows 10 (or before, for that matter).

      I have used Apple products, but I’m not particularly impressed.  My son and some friends have iPhones, and I am similarly unimpressed.  We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do, but we all don’t have to do the same things.

      Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!
      We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.
      We were all once "Average Users".

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2400659

      MacroHard will never go away.  Someone in another thread on this site had the nerve to use the phrase “you can ‘upgrade’ to Windoze 11” blah, blah, blah…For the love of Buddha, please stop calling Windoze 11 an “upgrade”.  About as Orwellian as MacroHard stating their updates contain new”benefits and features!!!”

      MacroHard is an encrusted, irrelevant, last generation mentality beast, ripe for disruption long, long ago.  Just look at all the friction devoted to fixes for MacroHard  garbage products on this site.  Does no one see the incessant abject failure?

      I would have flown on over to the Apple side years ago but for my having to support a high functioning autistic individual on Windoze.  So I’m stuck in the cesspool otherwise known as MacroHard.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2400811

        I understand Hailstorms move to Apple and believe me, he will be happier person.

        About as Orwellian as MacroHard stating their updates contain new”benefits and features!!!”

        “Orwellian term” seems to fits onto Microsofts marketing perfectly. Its present everywhere.
        There is no other point, but to make money. There is no real desire to design fast, effective and reliable system. Windows transformed into service requiring regular payments, which was goal of Microsoft from the beginning.

        “New” graphical UI, start menu and other cosmetical changes are just toys for users. No real revolution really happened and those changes are actually making the system complicated and it also brings lot of holes and bugs.

        Windows running myriads of possible combinations is of course buggy and untested.

        I agree, that Windows sould have some system HW requirements. I think Microsoft SHOULD somehow limit number of HW combinatoins running Windows. But that would mean lower incomes from MS Store, less Edge users and so on. Shareholders would not be happy 😉

        If the perfect and reliable system was invented, I am pretty sure, that those mega-rich and influential companies will not allow to introduce it. That would mean end of bussiness growth for Microsoft. All those CEOs and headmasters are literally sitting on the pile of money, while regular users are busy with solving problems, that Windows updates caused. Of course there wont be any revolution soon. “Leaders” are happy with the industry momentum. Its good for them, no obvious problem ahead. And “they care about our security”, right? At least, thats waht we hear all the time, which brings me back to Orwellian “mind tricks” methods.
        Did you hear recently “Sorry, we messed up, its our fault, we shouldnt do this..“?
        No, nobody (no company) really does that, it seems like they know everything and they are already working on a solution..
        Honesty and humility (modesty, meekness) are signs of virtuous people. Cant see too much virtuosity in world today. Just assertivity and personal importance, very often greed too. Add gluttony to that too.

        Journalists and TV companies sould work on this. People need positive models and virtuous models. Instead they create desire to “buy more and have more”. Not good for the humanity at all.

        Dell Latitude 3420, Intel Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16GB RAM, W10 22H2 Enterprise

        HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29

        PRUSA i3 MK3S+

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2400677

      I had been a lifelong Windows user that got disillusioned with the direction Microsoft was taking Windows 10 in, such that I transitioned to the Mac a year ago. The only thing that I do that Windows excels at is PC gaming, and I’ve done a lot less of that over the past few years. Increasingly I’ve been doing more photography and photo editing, which is something that Macs are generally quite good at (macOS has a built-in raw processing engine that is miles better than Windows’ sucky Photos app).

      My advice is always the same to everyone: what do you use your computer for? I never blindly recommend Windows or Macs or Chromebooks to people without knowing their needs. Are you just a casual web surfer? Chromebooks are a budget-conscious option. Do you need compatibility with office software or do a lot of PC gaming? Windows is good with those. Are you into graphics design, desktop publishing, or other creative pursuits? Macs have offered better support for those. I also ask about whether upgradeability and control is important to them. Do they want full control over every single aspect of their computer? Linux is probably for them. Do they simply want the option to upgrade hardware components in the future? They can probably get away with some Windows PCs. Do they need high-end components but simply don’t have the time to do any sort of DIY work? They’re probably suitable using Macs.

      I never rate anyone on a scale, and I encourage others to refrain from doing so as well. Mac users are not “less competent” than other users and I cannot stress this enough: people’s priorities are different, and what is valuable to you may not be valuable to others, so don’t judge others based on what their needs are. For me personally, I need a machine that can handle photo editing and even some video editing on the side, but I do not have the technical knowledge nor the time to upgrade my hardware on my own. I also do not have the time and patience for the complicated update scheme that is Windows Update. I use Adobe Creative Cloud and Affinity Photo for my work, and I also need Microsoft Office support, so Linux is out of the question (yes I know there are free alternatives, but I need to collaborate with others and as such I need to be using the same software that they do; please don’t lecture me on alternatives, because I’ve already done my homework). The choice for me is either Windows or macOS, and because I’ve grown sick of Windows (like you), I switched to macOS, and it has been serving me well thus far.

      Macs have their quirks too, and you’ll probably come across a few annoyances while you’re using them, but no system is perfect. The question isn’t whether you find your “dream system”, but whether the system you are currently using is sufficiently and adequately meeting your needs. At the end of the day, I need a computer that works as a tool; if I need to spend more time fiddling with the tool than actually doing work with the tool, the tool is failing me.

      Regarding phone use… I am actually the opposite of you: I used an Android phone even after I got my first Mac, and it was my Mac that eventually convinced me to buy an iPhone. Unlike Windows, however, I have no beef against Android; I simply got an iPhone for better compatibility and seamlessness with my Mac. It’s nice to be able to make and receive phone calls and SMS messages straight from my Mac, without having to download or install or setup any additional software; and other integrations such as AirDrop and Universal Clipboard have found their way into my workflow due to their ease of use. Do explore them: you might find yourself using those integration tools without even realizing it.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2400679

        Oh, and I forgot to mention this earlier: what MacBook are you getting? If you’re getting one of the newer Apple silicon MacBooks (currently, all MacBooks sold brand new by Apple use Apple silicon), you might have some extra work to do in order to get Windows to run. You may have done research on this already, but to recap: the x86 version of Windows will not work on Apple silicon, because they use different processor architectures. It is also not possible to virtualize x86 Windows (virtualization is not the same as emulation). You will need to use the ARM version of Windows if you want to use it on Apple silicon. Microsoft doesn’t currently license ARM versions of Windows, but virtualization software such as Parallels Desktop (and soon, VMware Fusion) can run the ARM version of Windows on Apple silicon if you’re able to get a hold of a copy of Windows. ARM Windows can emulate x86 applications, but it won’t be as good as running x86 Windows on x86 processors, or even Apple’s own Rosetta 2 emulator. Just a word of caution.

        If you’re buying an Intel Mac, you can choose to run a virtual machine of x86 Windows, or use Boot Camp. Intel Macs are on their way out the door, though, so for long-term use it’s probably best to get Apple silicon.

        Now, in an ideal world, Microsoft would sell licenses for ARM versions of Windows and allow Boot Camp on Apple silicon to be a thing… Microsoft can only win from doing so, surely.

        • #2401271

          Thank you.  I really appreciate the additional information.  I think I’ll go Apple Silicon and forego running Windows in parallels.  There were only a couple of Windows programs I wanted to run and I have other options I use there.

          HS.

          • #2401276

            I am running Windows 11 Pro on ARM in a Parallels VM on an M1 MacMini. It is an Insider Build (Beta, not Dev). I haven’t had time to test many of the programs, but have Firefox, Thunderbird, VLC Player, Belarc Advisor, and CCleaner Portable, HP OfficeJet 8720 Pro and Brother MFC-J435W running so far.

            Can’t say I particularly like Win11 UI (it leaves a lot to be desired) and I have stripped all the worthless UWP apps from my Win10 installations (can’t do that with an Insider Build), but otherwise it is very much like the Intel-based version.

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #2401284

              Thanks.  Great to know that will probably work if I need it.

    • #2400842

      ‘Moving FROM the darkside’ may have been more appropriate as a title given your OP

      Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2401283

      At the end of the day, I need a computer that works as a tool; if I need to spend more time fiddling with the tool than actually doing work with the tool, the tool is failing me.

      Many thanks Anon.  I agree this is the key point.  Part of my frustration is the amount of fiddling required to keep Windows running.  A large focus of the AskWoody website with the MS-DEFCON system is really dedicated to stopping Microsoft breaking your computer.  How ridiculous that this is even necessary!

      Supporting my elderly father’s computing issues remotely has provided me good insight into the typical users experience with Windows.  It is sad, as he feels so frustrated and helpless sometimes.  The typical user generally just needs simple things (read a document, print a document, use a web browser), but they need this to work seamlessly all the time.  They can’t google around trying to work out how to roll back patches when Microsoft breaks their printer.  I understand the frustration he feels.

      Anyway, I want to thank all those that took the time to respond to my initial post.  I really enjoy the community at AskWoody, and the many knowledgeable and helpful people that contribute to the AskWoody blogs.

    • #2401392

      Checking a few folders that I haven’t touched since install it appears that I have been living on Linux Mint since July 2, 21. Nowadays the only reason I boot to 21H1 is to see what wumgr is offering me. I have a VM on Mint that has 21H1 on it but I only use that for Schwab SmartStreetEdge, so I can regularly lose money. It just seems simpler overall. I view anything apple as being incompatible to what I have. Besides, I could never afford an iPhone – when I upgrade, I get a used one on ebay for around $150 which usually assuages my boredom for a year or 2. LG is the current favorite as Moto has probs (BT, and eats 3-4 rings before ringing on incoming call) and Samsung can’t connect through my apartment windows. Android does all I need. I stopped flashing custom ROMs a few years ago. I live the simple life.

    • #2401423

      Part of my frustration is the amount of fiddling required to keep Windows running.

      Only if you choose to remain on the MS treadwheel.

      Here’s another slant… and a screenshot of the details of my daily driver:

      current_os

      I won’t bother proselytising. Instead I’ll just note the following:

      • How much time do I spend dealing with MS updates each month? None
      • How many times have I fallen foul of attacks (despite sometimes browsing supposedly dodgy websites)? None
      • How long would it take me to recover from malware? I’ve tested this… it’s just short of 15 minutes (using Macrium Reflect Free).
      • How often has the sky fallen? Still waiting…  (but if there’s ever even a hint of a ripple then I take my daily driver offline and scan until I’m satisfied).
      • The amount of time I’ve saved? Incalculable.

      Just a different methodology which has worked for me for years. YMMV… 🙂

      All I can attest to is that I gave up worrying years ago (when I realised Win 10 was a dud but I would be forced to embrace it). I back up regularly (with Macrium Reflect Free) and just get on with my life without pandering to the FUD. (I do, however, keep up-to-date images used on a test laptop. It’s just my daily driver that plods along being productive without constant care.)

      Others will no doubt disagree. I can only post what has worked for me for years.

      Hope this different perspective helps to foment discussion. I know it’s contrary to the ethos of AskWoody… but – as the saying goes – “opinions are like *rs*wh*l*s; we all have one” 🙂

      PS – Yes, it’s in my plans to someday update at some time in the future to a later version of Win 10 Pro… but only if it becomes necessary. I may even update Firefox from v86.0.1. (OK, that was a joke – I won’t be updating Firefox.)

      (Actually, that previous statement was not truly accurate. If I get a good enough Black Friday deal on 1TB SSDs then all 3 of my Dell Latitude E7450 laptops will be clean installed to start afresh… and the games will begin once again.)

      EDIT: Bullet points no longer appear to be working. 🙁

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2401432

        In my own experience of more than twenty years using Windows, until January of last year, when my last version, Win 7, went out of support, I did one better (or worse?) than Master Corbett, and never bother to make Macrium-like full disk images, just regular backups to external HDs. I patched regularly, always making a restore point before installing the patches, delaying patching as much as possible to see what problems others might have with the new patches and rejecting any that I believed to be trouble, based on concurrent opinions from sources I trusted and on personal observation. I did use several antivirus, eventually settling for Webroot Secure Anywhere and Malwarebytes, when running Windows. Also installed some protective addons to my browsers. I have followed the same policy with my Mac laptop, that I started using in mid-2017, except for recently switching from Webroot to Intego.

        And still and all, here I am. Regrets? Not even a few: in all this time, I have not come to grief following the policy just described … at least so far.

        So now I must give readers the following caveat: In the very fast and dramatically changing story of online evildoing, the past is not guaranteed to be prologue.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    Viewing 6 reply threads
    Reply To: Moving to the dark side …

    You can use BBCodes to format your content.
    Your account can't use all available BBCodes, they will be stripped before saving.

    Your information: