Microsoft’s newfound telemetry transparency with 1,966 basic data points

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If any of you care to take on the 1,966 data points, I’m all ears!

[See the full post at: Microsoft’s newfound telemetry transparency with 1,966 basic data points]

1 user thanked author for this post.

Pepsiboy

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1st, I no longer trust them.

2nd, they don’t need 1996 data points — which are not even all — to keep Windows running.

3rd, all this uploading must consume system resources.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, Noel Carboni, Bill C., samak

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Not to mention just the gathering of the info slowing systems down and filling disks.

Remember when the OS was just there to facilitate people’s work?

-Noel

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Why isn’t the default privacy setting OFF with nothing to anyone for any reason? Plus write the EULA and Privacy Statement in plain English not Shyster.

Phoning home should under the user’s complete control to determine what they want to allow.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, samak, Kirsty

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It CAN be under user control – if you’re geeky enough. 🙂 I can definitively say, after watching firewall logs for a few days, that it’s possible to quash ALL unwanted mothership calls.

But it comes at a cost. You have to be willing to do only traditional desktop things. The whole App realm pretty much hinges on having constant and unfettered network connectivity (integration with the store, use of a Microsoft account, etc.).

Microsoft needed only to invent some “must have” Apps and they would have had those of us who prefer our systems to remain private by the ….

Trouble is, no one at Microsoft stopped to think that there’s not all that much useful that can be accomplished in the mobile realm.

-Noel

5 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, jelson, Pepsiboy, AJNorth, HiFlyer

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Noel Carboni wrote:

You have to be willing to do only traditional desktop things.

That’s all I ever do anyway.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Well, Microsoft collects all data they can get their hands on for decades by now; they even grab statistical data from connected devices (i.e. routers, etc.). So, it is up to the user (administrator) to utilize firewall and DNS server to filter unwanted outbound traffic, and properly configure and maintain scheduled tasks, services, group policies, etc..

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woody wrote:

If any of you care to take on the 1,966 data points, I’m all ears!

Is it me or does everything Microsoft publishes smack of weasel words, even when they claim to be transparent?

For example, one of the first sections they describe as “Common data” says this about what user data is collected:

•User ID — a unique identifier associated with the user’s Microsoft Account (if one is used) or local account. The user’s Microsoft Account identifier is not collected from devices configured to send Basic diagnostic data

One could be forgiven for, after reading that carefully a few times, STILL thinking that Microsoft is going to be sent information about your local account regardless of what diagnostic data level you specify.

I don’t really understand all this data gathering aggressiveness. I DO see why Microsoft wants diagnostic data – they can actually make the product better with it. But not to allow users to fully opt out is just wrong. They have a closed system – they need to understand that trust doesn’t come cheap, and frankly they’ve really blown it on that score over the past few years. Just have systems configured to send telemetry out of the box, but allow users to opt completely out of it. Then provide those same, savvy users who opted out the ability to report problems themselves if they have them. Oh wait, that’s what we already had.

-Noel

4 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, Pepsiboy, AJNorth, HiFlyer

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It isn’t just you. I also  interpret your quote to mean that Microsoft is going to be sent information about your local account regardless of what diagnostic data level you specify.

Well spotted, it is easy to miss.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, Noel Carboni, HiFlyer

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Yep, I ran Mr Brian’s Diagtrack test in Basic and Full telemetry modes and ‘localid’ was present in both data sets. :< Of course I don’t have complete verification that it is transmitted in basic mode, but the presumption of ‘Yes’ is likely accurate.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, radosuaf

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For all we know, the “Basic” setting could be the same as “Full”, ie M$ tricking Win 10 users into feeling better about having minimized Telemetry & Data collection by M$.

If the settings are not the same, imagine the number of full data points being collected by M$. 4,000 ?

1 user thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer

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Can somebody with Windows 10 please verify if the task that collects this information is named “Windows Compat Appraiser” (as claimed at https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/deploy/upgrade-readiness-get-started) or “Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser” (as shown at http://windowsreport.com/opt-out-microsoft-customer-experience-windows-10/). Please also state which version of Windows 10 you are using (such as v1607).

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Everything in Windows 10 collects data 😀

the task is name “Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser” in all Windows versions 7 -> 10

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, woody, HiFlyer

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Thank you for verifying :). The low number of Google results for “Windows Compat Appraiser” (with quotes) made me suspicious.

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Woody’s article states:

“Although it isn’t clear how frequently Microsoft transmits Windows data, how many of those 1,966 data items go out in each spurt, and how many machines are under scrutiny, the sum total of all that telemetry must be breathtaking.”

The task that initiates collection of this data is named Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser (reference: http://windowsreport.com/opt-out-microsoft-customer-experience-windows-10/).

Task Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser by default is scheduled to run every day at 3 am. If the computer is off at 3 am, this task may run the next time that the computer is on. The first-ever run of Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser on a given computer does a full scan. Subsequent runs of Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser apparently scan only for differences since the initial full scan. Source: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/deploy/upgrade-readiness-get-started; note: the source’s claim about the task being named “Windows Compat Appraiser” is apparently in error and should read “Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser.”

Woody’s article states:

“Windows 10, version 1703 Diagnostic Data gives a high-level view of the kinds of data collected at both Full and Basic levels, with a small handful of examples of the kinds of data in each category.”

That isn’t true. That page is about the data collected at the Full level. It is true though that Basic level is a subset of the Full level.

Microsoft document “Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 Appraiser Telemetry Events and Fields” (which can be downloaded from https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/deploy/manage-windows-upgrades-with-upgrade-readiness) lists in extensive detail most of the telemetry data that can be collected by KB2952664 (Windows 7 SP1), KB2977759 (Windows 7 RTM), and KB2976978 (Windows 8 and 8.1), and then sent to Microsoft by the operating system’s Diagnostics Tracking Service.

A method that seemingly lists the telemetry data sent to Microsoft by the operating system’s Diagnostics Tracking Service (which was renamed to service Connected User Experiences and Telemetry in Windows 10 version 1511) is available at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/care-to-join-a-win7-snooping-test/#post-21414. Although the method was tested on Windows 7, a user has reported that it works on Windows 10 also, and it probably also works on Windows 8 and 8.1. If you try this method, keep in mind the information presented above about when task Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser runs by default.

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anonymous wrote:

That isn’t true. That page is about the data collected at the Full level.

You’re absolutely right. The listing does include Basic level data, but only because it’s (presumably) a subset of Full data.

Thanks for the clarification on the way it’s being harvested!

(@MrBrian, I assume?)

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“the sum total of all that telemetry must be breathtaking.”

I don’t think anybody has enough resources to EFFECTIVELY analyze this data volume, so I doubt they use it for improving Windows in a significant ways. But they hord it until they can figure out how they can monetize it. This is what all corps do these days. Easier than come up with valuable goods and services.

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is there any hope to see Win 10 CU comming to Win 8.1 phones? i own my 640 xl DualSim LTE from a year and 3 month n win 10 is always a roumer like erry year http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/787368/windows-phone-microsoft-creators-update-mobile-release-date-april

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I’m 99% sure. I assume you’re running W10M already?

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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Thanks for the clarification on the way it’s being harvested!

(@MrBrian, I assume?)

woody?  are you undermining anon posts about telemetry by becoming a  tracking cookie??

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I’ve been accused of worse. 🙂

Actually, I assumed it was MrBrian because the anonymous poster obviously knew whereof they spoke. And the post resembled many of MrBrian’s posts in the past.

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no because MS didn push the update to any devices

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I’ve installed W10M on my wife’s 640 DS a loooong time ago. Did you try Upgrade Assistant?

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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yea it lalways stop downloading at 8 %

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AElMassry wrote:

yea it lalways stop downloading at 8 %

What about Windows Insider? Just sign up for Release Preview ring and opt-out after update. That’s what I did.

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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honestly i dont like the insider thing, mine is stable & fast, just weird they keep announcing win 10 for phones from 2014 n nothing comes

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AElMassry wrote:

honestly i dont like the insider thing

Then you’ll have to wait. 640 is supposed to receive CU. My 735 isn’t :(. I’ve updated my wife’s phone in December 2015 – running stable ever since.

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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lets hope they do it b4 i turn 90

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olso alot of apps are stopping supporting Win 8.1 phones like facebook did few days ago, so pushing the update by MS is a must, it will become a usless device soon http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4353492/Facebook-Messenger-axed-76-Windows-phones.html

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Do you have enough free space on the phone. When you download an upgrade, you have to have enough free for the download file, the expansion the the upgrade files, then the room for the upgrade itself.

If you don’t have much free space, best to backup your data and offload apps. You can reinstall the apps afterward. (Speaking from my experience with iPhones, not Win phones)

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yes i do, i clean my mob weekly, all my apps r on a 64 gb memory card and i have 3gb empty from 8 gb on the phone it self, its a problem u’ll find under upgrade advisor app in the mobile store

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Well I can see why Microsoft took so long to fess up to what they collected by default mind you. This is incredibly intrusive for a company to collect so much on every users by default.  Wouldn’t be surprised if we see plenty of litigation over this in the future. How many user will most certainly choose the default settings afraid of breaking something if they choose custom settings. I don’t have anything to hide, and am not the least bit paranoid about data collection. But the shear amount Microsoft collects here is not warranted for a OS to work properly.

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Unless some greedy lawyers see an oppty, I doubt we will see suits. And such lawyers usually reveal a conflict of their interest to that of users.

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All of the above comments just give me MORE reasons why I DO NOT want or need Win10. This snooping SHOULD be able to be turned off EASILY and PERMANENTLY.

Dave

2 users thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer, Noel Carboni

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Pepsiboy wrote:

This snooping SHOULD be able to be turned off EASILY and PERMANENTLY.

Very good point about permanency. I used O&O ShutUp10 right after the Creator’s Update went in and found a few settings had been returned to the red side by Microsoft’s upgrade process. Not a large number of them, but not zero either.

-Noel

1 user thanked author for this post.

HiFlyer

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I did a comparison of events that are listed in both Microsoft document “Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 Appraiser Telemetry Events and Fields” and https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields. I put an “x” in front of those events that are in both lists. I did this quickly so there are probably errors.

 

“Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 Appraiser Telemetry Events and Fields”:

x Common Data Envelope
x Common Data – Telemetry Extension
x Common Data – Device Extension
x Common Data – User Extension
x Common Data – OS Extension
x Consent UI Event
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryApplicationAdd
x InventoryApplicationFileAdd
x DecisionApplicationFileAdd
x DatasourceApplicationFileAdd
x DataSourceMatchingInfoBlockAdd
x DecisionMatchingInfoBlockAdd
x DataSourceMatchingInfoPassiveAdd
x DecisionMatchingInfoPassiveAdd
x DataSourceMatchingInfoPostUpgradeAdd
x DecisionMatchingInfoPostUpgradeAdd
InventoryApplicationIeAddonAdd
x InventoryDeviceContainerAdd
x InventoryDevicePnpAdd
x DatasourceDevicePnpAdd
x DecisionDevicePnpAdd
x DatasourceDriverPackageAdd
x DecisionDriverPackageAdd
x InventoryDriverBinaryAdd
x InventoryDriverPackageAdd
InventorySystemMachineAdd
x SystemMemoryAdd
InventorySystemProcessorAdd
x InventorySystemBiosAdd
x DatasourceSystemBiosAdd
x DecisionSystemBiosAdd
DecisionSystemProcessorAdd
x SystemProcessorCompareExchangeAdd
x SystemProcessorLahfSahfAdd
x SystemProcessorNxAdd
x SystemProcessorPrefetchWAdd
x SystemProcessorSse2Add
x SystemTouchAdd
x SystemWimAdd
x SystemWindowsActivationStatusAdd
x SystemWlanAdd
InventoryMiscellaneous
InventoryMiscellaneousAntispywareInformation
InventoryMiscellaneousAntivirusInformation
InventoryMiscellaneousBrowserStartupSettings
InventoryMiscellaneousCITModuleLoaded
InventoryMiscellaneousChromeApp
InventoryMiscellaneousChromeRlz
InventoryMiscellaneousCpuid
InventoryMiscellaneousDiskInfo
InventoryMiscellaneousDiskPartitionInfo
InventoryMiscellaneousMarkerCompatMarkers
InventoryMiscellaneousMonitorData
InventoryMiscellaneousPhysicalDiskInfo
InventoryMiscellaneousServices
InventoryMiscellaneousSetupBootedFromAuditMode
InventoryMiscellaneousSetupBootedFromVHD
InventoryMiscellaneousSetupPendingFirmwareUpdateWithPower
InventoryMiscellaneousUser
InventoryMiscellaneousUserAccountTypeEnumeration
InventoryMiscellaneousVolumeInfo
InventoryMiscellaneousWinSATMetrics
InventoryMiscellaneousWAMAccounts
x InventoryLanguagePackAdd
x InventoryMediaCenterAdd
x DecisionMediaCenterAdd
GatedDownloadSuccess
GatedNewTarget
x GatedRegChange
GatedRunEnd
GatedRunStart
x Census.App
x Census.Battery
x Census.Camera
x Census.Enterprise
x Census.Firmware
x Census.Flighting
x Census.Hardware
x Census.VM
x Census.Memory
x Census.Network
x Census.WU
x Census.OS
x Census.Processor
x Census.Storage
x Census.Userdefault
x Census.UserDisplay
x Census.UserNLS
x Census.Xbox
x Setup360telemetry.downlevel
x Setup360telemetry.finalize
x Setup360telemetry.postrebootinstall
x Setup360telemetry.predownloadquiet
x Setup360telemetry.preinstallquiet
x Setup360telemetry.unexpectedevent
x Setup360Telemetry.Setup360
x SetupPlatformTelEvent
x SetupPlatformTelActivityEvent
x TelClientSynthetic.ConnectivityHeartBeat_0
x TelClientSynthetic. HeartBeat_5
TelClientSynthetic. AbnormalShutdown_0
Microsoft Emulator
Microsoft.Windows.Kits.Bootstrapper.SetupFinished
Microsoft.Windows.Kits.Bootstrapper.BurnErrorReported
Microsoft.Windows.Kits.Bootstrapper.ExceptionHit
Microsoft.Windows.Kits.Bootstrapper.SetupStarted
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.ChangeEnumeration
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.ChangeTracker
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.LocalProvider
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.RemoteProvider
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.PerItemError
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.SyncSession
Microsoft.Windows.WorkFolders.SyncStatistics
Microsoft.Windows.App.Browser.IECrashInternet (Internet + Restricted Zone)
Microsoft.Windows.App.Browser.IECrashIntranet (Intranet +Trusted + Local File Zone)
Microsoft.Windows.App.Browser.IEHangInternet (Internet + Restricted Zone)
Microsoft.Windows.App.Browser.IEHangIntranet (Intranet + Trsuted + Local File Zone)
Microsoft.Windows.App.Browser.IENavFailureInternet (Internet + Restricted Zone)
Microsoft.Windows.App.Browser.IENavFailureIntranet (Intranet + Trsuted + Local File Zone)
Microsoft.Web.Platform.OMSMarkupDataInternet (Internet + Restricted Zone)
Microsoft.Web.Platform.OMSMarkupDataIntranet (Intranet + Trusted + Local File Zone)
Microsoft.Web.Platform.VersionManagementInternet (Internet + Restricted Zone)
Microsoft.Web.Platform.VersionManagementIntranet (Intranet + Trusted + Local File Zone)

https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/configure/basic-level-windows-diagnostic-events-and-fields:

Common Data Extensions.App
Common Data Extensions.CS
x Common Data Extensions.CUET
x Common Data Extensions.Device
x Common Data Extensions.Envelope
x Common Data Extensions.OS
x Common Data Extensions.User
Common Data Extensions.XBL
x Common Data Extensions.Consent UI Event
Common Data Fields.MS.Device.DeviceInventory.Change
Common Data Fields.TelClientSynthetic.PrivacySettingsAfterCreatorsUpdate.PreUpgradeSettings
Common Data Fields.TelClientSynthetic.PrivacySettingsAfterCreatorsUpdate.PostUpgradeSettings
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.ChecksumTotalPictureCount
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.ChecksumTotalPictureIdHashSha256
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceApplicationFileAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceApplicationFileRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceApplicationFileStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceDevicePnpAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceDevicePnpRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceDevicePnpStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceDriverPackageAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceDriverPackageRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceDriverPackageStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoBlockAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoBlockRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoBlockStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoPassiveAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoPassiveRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoPassiveStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoPostUpgradeAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoPostUpgradeRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DataSourceMatchingInfoPostUpgradeStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceSystemBiosAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceSystemBiosRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DatasourceSystemBiosStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionApplicationFileAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionApplicationFileRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionApplicationFileStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionDevicePnpAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionDevicePnpRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionDevicePnpStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionDriverPackageAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionDriverPackageRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionDriverPackageStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoBlockAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoBlockRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoBlockStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoPassiveAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoPassiveRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoPassiveStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoPostUpgradeAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoPostUpgradeRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMatchingInfoPostUpgradeStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMediaCenterAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMediaCenterRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionMediaCenterStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionSystemBiosAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionSystemBiosRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.DecisionSystemBiosStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.EnterpriseScenarioWithDiagTrackServiceRunning
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.GatedRegChange
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryApplicationFileAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryApplicationFileRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryApplicationFileStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryLanguagePackAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryLanguagePackRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryLanguagePackStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryMediaCenterAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryMediaCenterRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryMediaCenterStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventorySystemBiosAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventorySystemBiosRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventorySystemBiosStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryUplevelDriverPackageAdd
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryUplevelDriverPackageRemove
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.InventoryUplevelDriverPackageStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.IsOnlineTelemetryOutputter
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.IsOnlineWuDriverDataSource
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.RunContext
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SetupAdlStatus
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemMemoryAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemMemoryRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemMemoryStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorCompareExchangeAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorCompareExchangeRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorCompareExchangeStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorLahfSahfAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorLahfSahfRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorLahfSahfStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorNxAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorNxRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorNxStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorPrefetchWAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorPrefetchWRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorPrefetchWStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorSse2Add
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorSse2Remove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemProcessorSse2StartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemTouchAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemTouchRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemTouchStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWimAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWimRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWimStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWindowsActivationStatusAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWindowsActivationStatusRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWindowsActivationStatusStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWlanAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWlanRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.SystemWlanStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.TelemetryRunHealth
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.WmdrmAdd
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.WmdrmRemove
Microsoft.Windows.Appraiser.General.WmdrmStartSync
x Census.App
x Census.Battery
x Census.Camera
x Census.Enterprise
x Census.Firmware
x Census.Flighting
x Census.Hardware
x Census.Memory
x Census.Network
x Census.OS
x Census.Processor
Census.Speech
x Census.Storage
x Census.Userdefault
x Census.UserDisplay
x Census.UserNLS
x Census.VM
x Census.WU
x Census.Xbox
TelClientSynthetic.AuthorizationInfo_RuntimeTransition
TelClientSynthetic.AuthorizationInfo_Startup
x TelClientSynthetic.ConnectivityHeartBeat_0
x TelClientSynthetic.HeartBeat_5
TelClientSynthetic.PrivacySettingsAfterCreatorsUpdate
DxgKrnlTelemetry.GPUAdapterInventoryV2
Microsoft.Windows.FaultReporting.AppCrashEvent
Microsoft.Windows.HangReporting.AppHangEvent
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.AmiTelCacheChecksum
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.AmiTelCacheVersions
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryApplicationAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryApplicationRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryApplicationStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceContainerAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceContainerRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceContainerStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceInterfaceAdd
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceInterfaceStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceMediaClassAdd
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceMediaClassRemove
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDeviceMediaClassStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDevicePnpAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDevicePnpRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDevicePnpStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDriverBinaryAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDriverBinaryRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDriverBinaryStartSync
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDriverPackageAdd
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDriverPackageRemove
x Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Core.InventoryDriverPackageStartSync
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Indicators.Checksum
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Indicators.InventoryMiscellaneousUexIndicatorAdd
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Indicators.InventoryMiscellaneousUexIndicatorRemove
Microsoft.Windows.Inventory.Indicators.InventoryMiscellaneousUexIndicatorStartSync
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The easy answer, just never let Win 10 connect to the net.  Use another OS to browse the net and download the updates you need with that.  Use a shared external USB drive for file transfers.  Done.  No mo MS snooping. 🙂

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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woody wrote:

I guess it all depends on what you mean by “diagnostic data,” but clearly Microsoft includes personally identifiable data — what one might call snooping — in its definition of “diagnostic data.”

What personally identifiable data is collected if diagnostics is set to basic?

NIST Special Publication 800-122[4] defines PII as “any information about an individual maintained by an agency, including (1) any information that can be used to distinguish or trace an individual’s identity, such as name, social security number, date and place of birth, mother’s maiden name, or biometric records; and (2) any other information that is linked or linkable to an individual, such as medical, educational, financial, and employment information.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personally_identifiable_information

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What personally identifiable data is collected if diagnostics is set to basic?

Are you serious?

We can’t possibly know the content of the data collected. Microsoft encrypts it. Even if it weren’t encrypted, who would be able to look inside the data packets and know what the ones and zeros really mean?

We can only infer what’s being collected based on documentation, and the documentation has clearly been written by lawyers – folks who are being paid to write copy that sounds like one thing when it means another.

I ask in return:

Where’s the proof that no personally identifying information is collected, and that it’s not stored in a way (e.g., with the IP address of the origin) that it could not be collated with other info to determine a person’s identity?

And let’s think about what was collected in the moments before the setting was changed to be more restrictive by the user who has just set up a new system, shall we? Is that all just thrown away?

Most folks know that “big data” can be mined to make connections between IP address, name, address, phone number, etc.

-Noel

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

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Yes, I’m serious. (You do like asking that question, don’t you?)

What personally identifiable data do you infer from the documentation is collected if diagnostics is set to basic?

I don’t think anyone can prove your negative, so I’ll assume that was rhetorical.

We learnt earlier in this thread that diagnostics transmission is scheduled for 3am, and the full/basic switch is right at the start of setup whether installing or upgrading, so I’m certainly not going to consider the moments just before that.

An IP address is not personally identifiable information (as held by several court cases), but Woody infers that Microsoft includes personally identifiable data in its diagnostics. I’m not clear what in the basic diagnostics would identify me as an individual, are you?

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b wrote:

What personally identifiable data do you infer from the documentation is collected if diagnostics is set to basic?

I presume you’re still asking the question of Woody, but it seems to me we have every reason to believe that anything not explicitly excluded by the written policy, plus probably half a dozen other obscure legal documents, is fair game.

It’s pretty clear from the paragraph I highlighted earlier in this thread that local account info is not explicitly excluded. My own local account name includes my actual name. How many other folks’ local account names are derived from their real names?

Not personally identifiable, eh?

Beyond that, what more can be made of the information taken in total to identify the user – outside of some court’s legal definition – is a fair subject for discussion regardless of whether you wish to exclude it, counselor.

What’s funny in all this is that as a software engineer I understand better than most why Microsoft would like legitimate telemetry to make the operating system better. That they have chosen to increase telemetry, make it impossible to opt completely out, and ultimately to hide behind legalese – not to mention other things they’ve been doing lately, such as clearly NOT making the operating system better – are pretty darned good reasons to suspect they have motives beyond the obvious.

-Noel

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, samak

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Noel Carboni wrote:

It’s pretty clear from the paragraph I highlighted earlier in this thread that local account info is not explicitly excluded. My own local account name includes my actual name. How many other folks’ local account names are derived from their real names?

Not personally identifiable, eh?

According to the documentation, User ID does not include login names (and localid is for the device, not user).

So I’m still struggling to find anything in Basic diagnostics telemetry which is personally identifiable.

Woody said such data was “clearly included”. I wonder why.

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I’ve seen the device’s and user’s ‘localid’ in six different data sets of Diagtrack capturing tests, setting the telemetry between Basic and Full.

The identity hash strings have not changed between sessions or rebooting of the test machine, they are supposed to be unique to each machine and user.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, radosuaf, samak, Noel Carboni

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b says, “What personally identifiable data is collected if diagnostics is set to basic?”

It is a fact that with Cookies, Telemetry & Data collection, online services companies are able to dish out targeted ads to their users and sell users-data to marketers. They do this mainly based on personal Device ID and not actual Personal ID.

To further obtain actual Personal ID, the companies would usually have to go through the ISP, eg sue in court, as per …….
http://www.pcworld.com/article/230515/So_Youre_Being_Sued_for_Piracy.html
This is because Internet users are required to register with their real Personal ID before they can get Internet access from the ISP, eg cyberbullies and Muslim terrorists in USA can be traced and personally identified/ID.

Without going through the ISP, now, a company like MS, may likely be able to obtain the Personal ID of Win 10 users by just putting in some extra effort, eg “spy” on or collect Telemetry & Data of the users’ webcams/Windows Hello log-in/fingerprints, keystrokes(for passwords), email contents, social media activities, forum posts, online comments, online purchases, online banking, online government dealings, etc.
Ignorant Win 10 users who go online are bound to be easily and personally ID by MS, on top of having already been Device ID by MS.

IOW, better to avoid using Win 10.
But a few Win 10 users will likely say that they won’t mind being personally ID by MS because they have done nothing wrong/illegal online, ie they are not Windows/Office/X-Box pirates, cyberbullies, terrorists, etc. This is a very myopic, selfish and non-compassionate view-point bc often some other innocents may be falsely accused by MS of wrongdoing and this kind of “spying” powers is very much open to abuse, eg for political or business purposes(steal trade secrets and eavesdrop on business dealings).

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, radosuaf

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But a few Win 10 users will likely say that they won’t mind being personally ID by MS because they have done nothing wrong/illegal online

When people say this, all I hear is someone that doesn’t care about their rights anymore because they feel they don’t need them and therefore no one else should either. Personally, I do a lot of paper shredding before throwing it in the recycle bin especially when it has my address on it, but what the people who use the “nothing to hide” fallacy are saying is it should be okay if someone went into those shredded documents and pieced them back together to get my address and I shouldn’t care because I “have nothing to hide”, right?

There are so many things wrong with the “nothing to hide” argument because everyone has something to hide and it doesn’t necessarily mean someone has done anything wrong. I’m not sure people really understand what privacy is and why it’s important to not let anyone take it away. We already know they hide microphones/cameras in TV’s and cable boxes, so in an era where everything can connect to the internet, what’s next? An out-of-control corporate fascist environment like the one we live in will be able to find something to blackmail or even prosecute people with if desired. I really wish the whole “nothing to hide” argument would just go away because it’s nothing more than a huge, apathetic fallacy. If I asked you to hand me your cell phone so I could go through it, what would your answer be? What, no? You must have something bad you’re hiding in there, huh?

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, samak, Noel Carboni

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anonymous wrote:

IOW, better to avoid using Win 10.

While I currently support the conclusion, I don’t necessarily support the reason you’re describing.

That’s because Windows 8 and 7 and even older do try to send in some information – telemetry is not new. It might not even be as tidy and well-controlled with an out-of-the-box configuration of an older OS as it is now with Win 10, after Microsoft has gotten more scrutiny.

That being said, it has always been possible to control what your computer sends online, and Windows will continue to work without the ability to send telemetry or other info to parties you don’t want it sending data to.

If you choose not to use Windows 10, I suggest that it your decision be based on its functionality, not its online promiscuity. Then find the ways to lock whatever version you’ve chosen down.

-Noel

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Dear Noel,

Then find the ways to lock whatever version you’ve chosen down.

You may be underestimating MS and their “power” or control over Win 10. Are you aware of the Win 10 Registry entry “Allow Experimentation” ?

This Registry entry for Allow Experimentation allows MS to do anything to nearly every Win 10 computer, including unlocking any locked-down Win 10 computer. Of course, MS will only do this as a last resort, eg after they have attained at least 70% market share for Win 10.
Their “nuclear option” is to take back their Win 10 license from users like yourself, ie by deactivating their Win 10 OS. MS likely do not fear lawsuits or arbitration from their users. Why subject ourselves to such possible “abusive” treatment ?

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None of that is really limited to Windows 10. Remote deactivation could be applied to earlier Windows systems, too, though a permanently activated Windows 7 system without KB971033 installed might be rather more immune…

Regarding remote unlocking, I’m not sure Microsoft ultimately has more control than a person who can define what is allowed to get through the network between the system and Microsoft, and who could ultimately pull the plugs out the back.

That being said, if you are trying to control communications entirely from WITHIN Windows there are some possible gotchas…

For example, imagine what could be done to thwrart networking restrictions during the times when the upgrade process is in complete control, e.g., during the hour these frequent in-place upgrades take to do their thing. There’s clearly networking capability then. You could imagine Microsoft sending in all the stalled telemetry data it finds on the disk, for example.

-Noel

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Interesting watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPFbAqICUJo

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