Microsoft should yank the Win10 version 2004 upgrade now

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Looks like people with a particular kind of Storage Spaces implementation are getting bit by yet another bug in Win10 version 2004. For the life of me
[See the full post at: Microsoft should yank the Win10 version 2004 upgrade now]

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lmacri, Elly, lurks about, Alex5723, rontpxz81, lanceboil, GreatAndPowerfulTech, Zathras, geekdom

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People capitalize on the hype that “YOU MUST INSTALL UPDATES NOW!!!!!!!!”

Recently YouTuber ThioJoe made a video called 10 Ways You’re Using Your Computer WRONG! (the clickbait title already makes me want to bite my nails off) where, aside from slamming people who don’t change the default settings (really Joe? that’s up to the user to decide), he also slammed people who don’t install updates immediately. (He does later mention that feature updates are worth delaying, but only by about a month, which is still way too soon) And I’ve had plenty of discussions – arguments, almost – with other people who insist that you absolutely must install updates right away and that to think otherwise will mean you will get hacked the next day.

There’s just this sentiment in the tech world now that assumes anything that hasn’t been updated in a week is obsolete and that it is imperative to always be on top of every single update that comes out. Tech companies have been promoting the idea with auto-updates and “strongly recommending” users to update, and unfortunately the idea has rubbed off on people – with dire consequences.

Of course, I’ll give credit where it’s due – ThioJoe is absolutely right to slam people who don’t update at all… which, I hope, is none of us here. We just prefer to check to see if anything will break when we update, because many of us here use our computers for more than just our web browser. Updates don’t come down from heaven like manna; they’re made by people, and people aren’t perfect.

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Still Anonymous, abbodi86, lurks about, rontpxz81, woody

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Windows 10.2004 is unlikely to be recalled. The driving force behind the update is a better Microsoft operating system and this upgrade has been presented as bigger, better, and brighter. To remove the update or delay the release would indicate that the update and by implication, Microsoft has fallen short and cannot meet internal and external goals.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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woody

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Yes. Agreed. That’s exactly the point.

Somebody at Microsoft has to have the guts to stand up and shout, “Stop the madness!”

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fk5353, Alex5723, Cybertooth, rontpxz81

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No one wants to tell the emperor about the new clothes.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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2004 is most disappointing due to Microsoft’s having six months, since it was “finished” in November, to perfect it. They did a lousy job.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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abbodi86, lanceboil

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no GreatAndPowerfulTech.

2004 was “finished” or RTMed in December 2019, not November

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FYI, they are bringing back C/D week optional updates in July

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Cybertooth

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As a reminder, Windows 10 version 1909 is good until 5/11/2021.

That’s almost another 11 months folks.

Windows 10 Pro x64 v22H2 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 (RIP)

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rontpxz81

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Solution!!! Disband the Insider Program head to toe. There is too much data for Microsoft to digest from millions of people and being done by what we all already know, are the most incompetent developers on the planet. Obviously quality isn’t a priority at Microsoft nor do they have the proper leadership model to make it so.

Cheers

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Cybertooth

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Really any Feature upgrade needs to be optional and I somehow suspect that it’s MS’s lack of in-house QA/QC and more reliance on that telemetry/AI to fix any issues but that places more onto any non insiders that really have never chosen to be BETA testers to MS’s insider ALPHA testing apparatus!

I’m on 1809 Home and on 1809 Home I’ll remain until Nov 2020 and I’m really not going to take 10/2004, or even 10/1909, until I’m ready and that’s how it will be. And if any other feature update gets pushed onto my laptop  without me making that decision then that 1809/Home system Image backup is ready just in case. I’ve got 4 other laptops dual booting Windows 7/EOL with Linux Mint so plenty of daily online usage for those older laptop and less wear and tear on the newest 10 1809 Home laptop that’s mostly off and waiting for things to settle down as far as 10’s stability. And that laptop is also getting dual booted with Linux Mint as that’s been very productive on the old 7/EOL laptops than can never be allowed online with 7/EOL.

MS’s got a bit more works to do on 10/2004 and I really want nothing to do with 2004’s WSL, but I sure home that 10/2004 is less of an issue than 10 1903/1909 with the endemic issues that really are not a good sign for MS’s end users.

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Most Users are probably not using Storage Sense.
But one thing that worries me is how Microsoft\Windows uses Storage Sense.

I do not use Storage Sense. AT ALL.
But during a monthly update, Windows started filling up the Windows\Temp folder on one of my machines with hundreds of .tmp files.
The machine has a 64GB drive (SSD, not HDD), and it went from around 24GB to 60GB used space because of this.
There was a message about getting low on drive space and Windows turned on Storage Sense automatically, without permission.

So this can happen to you even if you don’t use Storage Sense!

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Elly, geekdom, Wibbly, abbodi86, woody

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It’s times like this that I miss MS-DOS 6.22; Windows 3.11; and Norton Desktop. Netscape Navigator and AltaVista weren’t that bad, neither.

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Why would a company knowingly push unfinished, untested products out the door?  The only answer I can think of is because certain executives bonuses are based upon meeting unrealistic deadlines.

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Triage.  Microsoft is still pretty much committed to releasing semi-annual feature set updates on Spring/Fall basis. Any lags upset the cycle for the next release.

I believe that there is a faulty assumption that when stuff gets out the door, that the remaining work of users doing gamma testing is mostly a matter of polishing and fine-tuning, and that the AI testing processes are trustworthy of cleanups quickly.

There’s a bunch of wishful thinking on the part of the people who have the final go/no-go decision of releases, especially if the decisions have been delegated to AI processes.

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And NOW Microsoft in forcing 2004 on unsuspected 1809 users.

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I have an HP Desktop computer with Win 10, 64 bit, Ver 1909, that is being replaced by a new computer in a week or two. So I accepted the proposed “upgrade” to 2004 when it was offered this morning, June 18th, just to see what might happen. Being a retired science professor, I like to experiment!

The upgrade took about a half-hour and went smoothly.

I have noticed no major problems, but I can report that the upgrade “modified” (using a polite term) my color scheme almost everywhere and caused the mouse to behave contrary to my preferred settings. Earlier MS had redone the appearance of the search box with a lot of worthless clutter, and that is still the case.

Will report later if I encounter problems.

 

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I have a nearly identical experience to yours – only differences are that mine is an HP laptop with a seventh generation Intel Core i7 7700HQ, 8Gb ram and a 128 Gb SSD; and my upgrade took MUCH longer.  The entire process took one hour and forty-five minutes, of which twenty-five minutes was downloading 4.2 Gb over wi-fi at around 20 mb/sec., twenty minutes was “getting things ready” (which it went back to after 25% of the installing was completed), and one hour was installing the upgrade in two steps, including four or five reboots. I also have the color scheme changes, the mouse settings changes, and the other clutter. But the process did complete successfully and there have been no problems that I have seen (I am not a gamer, not on a server network, and don’t use Outlook, Office, Storage Spaces,or a Microsoft Account, just a home user of Windows 10 Home). These upgrades should only be once a year and should never take more than an hour including the downloading and “getting things ready.”

 

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Unless you installing on a test device I don’t think any user should volunteer to install 2004. Its a shame that some running older version will be pushed onto 2004 simply because of the end of life of that version. Might be old, but probably way more stable right now then 2004.

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For me, my old HP computer is now exactly that… a test device. When the new computer is functional, the old one will be stripped for usable parts, mostly memory and the newer Graphics Processing Unit. It is not really worth trying to pass it along intact as a usable computer due to other components being unreliable at this point.

I was pleased to be able to help the AskWoody universe achieve enlightenment by this experiment. Or whatever!

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Anything can be fixed with cumulative update :rolleyes:

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I am sooo tired of the “move fast and break things” mentality. It almost guarantees that we will live the rest of our lives surrounded with broken things. 🙁

Win10 Pro x64 22H2, Win10 Home 22H2, Linux Mint + a cat with 'tortitude'.

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Cybertooth

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What’s worse than having your disk array suddenly turn to raw and being unreadable? Slow, unnoticed corruption that drags on for weeks. You do backups, you continue to work, add files, change files, remove files, only to find out much later that you can’t know for sure anything is good, but since when? Do you still have a full backup since the update that created the issue in the first place? Are you willing to restore that and then try to remember everything else you did since then to try to retrieve what you can?

This kind of bug is totally unacceptable. You can’t let people beta test basic OS functionality. You can’t mess with that. Now I am really wondering if I should ditch my arrays and shell out the money for external NASes before the next blunder like this one. I liked the idea that I could trust Windows to at least not mess up my data RAID if I was having an issue with an update. I liked the simplicity of having protection against bit rot on the same machine, with no added investment in the Pro version when it was still available. I even bought the obscenely expensive Workstation version on my new rig just to get access to the ReFS feature.

Can I trust that a normal cumulative update won’t ever cause this kind of issue now? Microsoft don’t deserve our trust anymore. Please stop this madness. I want access to a LTS version, so I don’t waste time on Windows and its useless updates and focus on working on Windows like I did before the Windows 10 era. When I hear normal people complain about computers at health clinics or other professional environments, it’s never about features they don’t have. It’s about having reliable systems. We all have other things to do than dealing with unncessary issues.

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Cybertooth

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[bratkinson]

The unfortunate reality these days is that big corporations ‘decide’ on a project completion date and the underlings will do everything they can to meet it, good or bad.  As a retired mainframe computer consultant, that’s been a ‘way of life’ at the 15 or so Fortune 500 companies I had contracted at.  And so what if the project isn’t 100% perfect?  Most folks these days are realizing that the initial implementation will have some bugs in it.  New cars aren’t any different.

And, of course, woe be to the manager(s) whose projects did NOT come in on time!  Their ladder climbing days at that company suddenly ended.  And for the underlings that worked insane hours to get it up and running?  It’ll be YEARS before they’ll ever see anything but a most-minimal annual raise.

The other problem is that most software folks fail to do sufficient regression testing on any changes they made.  They make a half-a**ed attempt at verifying that they didn’t ‘break’ some of the big things, and the little things never get verified.  I’m on the other side of the fence on that one.  While writing an address correction subsystem for a Baby Bell, I had a ‘test base’ of over 35,000 actual addresses that I would compare the old (before any changes) results to the new results and verify that any differences were what I wanted.  I lost count fairly early in that project when I discovered I broke something and had to fix that.  Unfortunately, these days, most major software systems are incomprehensively large and complex, so the odds of breaking something when making a minor update is probably 25% or greater!

As Steve S said above: “It almost guarantees that we will live the rest of our lives surrounded with broken things. 🙁”

Yup!

• This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by bratkinson.

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wavy

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AlexEiffel wrote:

I liked the simplicity of having protection against bit rot on the same machine, with no added investment in the Pro version

You don’t need to rely on anything fancy to guarantee your data, it’s already done for you by the disk manufacturers.

cheers, Paul

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AlexEiffel

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Are you implying that a mirrored ReFS array brings nothing vs the ECC checks in hard disks? It would mean that a lot of people put a lot of energy creating and refining ZFS and other more more reliable filesystems for nothing.

Ideally, my backups should remain that. A backup plan. I would never need to rely on them because I would have a very reliable system to keep an active copy of my files, Windows won’t mess up my files and I would be lucky and never get infected. That is the purpose of such an array. I want to keep everything live and safe, with of course an offline offsite backup in case the sky falls.

I like your idea of triggering the ECC check by reading the files when doing the backup.

 

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Better file systems are a great idea and RAID is a requirement in a business environment, but they aren’t a panacea for all things.

cheers, Paul

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Why not?  1809 was pulled and delayed and hemmed and hawed until many users skipped it, I did.  The claims about “security” issues being addressed border on conspiracy culture; I mean bad actors reveal themselves every two weeks?  A true security issue would receive an immediate patch regardless of MS’s hokey alpha week designation system.  Linux works like that, subscription and free distros.  In the rare instances MS does it, it’s called “out of band”  which means…absolutely nothing, “band” isn’t mentioned anywhere else!

Until updates were forced by only allowing a few delay resets, I used “old” versions of Win 10 for two years or so before upgrading with no “security” issues whatsoever with five machines online, three with kids doing poking at buttons and clicking impulsively.  I do take common sense protection steps but Windows supposedly is able to protect itself well enough.

What the real purpose of all these updates is, IDK.  MS pared support and quality review dramatically, something that typically happens with legacy products.  Seems like all the buzz and drama surrounding Windows, which contains a good OS under all the junkware, may be about job security.  Just leave it alone!

Trust a company that continues to use the word “experience” as a noun, verb and adjective in the same paragraph and seems to require all sentences to contain the word, nonsense or not?  Nope.

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that’s what happens when MS fired their QA team a few years ago
quality of Win10 sometimes is worse

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Another Windows 10.2004 error flagged in the Microsoft forum. If you have Windows Live Mail, part of Windows Essentials 2012 (depreciated, but not dead), this error occurs:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/all/windows-10-feature-update-2004-appears-to-have/9736c90c-17a9-444d-8ab2-1422c697e3a0

Mercifully, there is a fix and the fix is provided in the thread.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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SkipH, woody

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I agree: Windows 10 20H1 aka v2004 should be pulled IMMEDIATELY. It is untested garbage. You only need to look on askWoody.com to see dozens of issues reported. As per usual, Microsoft is releasing a MAJOR OS upgrade without full testing.

I had MAJOR problems with upgrading v1903 to v1909; I had to install from the downloaded (ISO) Win10_1909_English_x64.iso instead of installing from WUP (Windows Update). Why? Because v2004 had already dropped on this machine, replacing the v1909 which was available only a few days earlier. I was able to install v1909 using WUP on only one machine; it took TEN MINUTES because all that is involved is “flipping a switch” as v1903 and v1909 share a common code base.

When I upgraded my desktop machine using the ISO it took almost THREE HOURS> And, it died after being stuck at 91%. The error was

0x8007042B – 0x4000D
The installation failed in the SECOND_BOOT phase with an error during MIGRATE_DATA operation

Here’s what I did – after a lot of research – to get the upgrade to work

1. Run DISM

DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-Image /Restorehealth

2. Run SFC

sfc /scannow
Windows Resource Protection found corrupt files and successfully repaired them.

3. disconnect from Internet

disable your Wi-Fi/Ethernet adapter

4. disable Malwarebytes A-V

5. disable unneeded startup items in Task Manager

for example, I disabled Epson FAX send/receive as I don’t FAX

This time the upgrade was done in 2 hours w/o errors. After reboot, I had to re-enable MWB and re-enable any wanted startup items. I had one unusual thing happen after the final reboot: I could create folders under my /Documents root, but could not create/write files as the folder was marked Read-Only; the R/O attribute could not be cleared. Yes, my account has the Administrator tag.

https://appuals.com/how-to-fix-folder-keeps-reverting-to-read-only-on-windows-10/

The above link shows you how to fix the problem.

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Cybertooth

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Just took a peek at the Windows Update screen and Microsoft has changed the incompatibility notice on my Lenovo Y530 1909 Pro May updates removing 2004 being incompatible…
Wonder what has changed.

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[EP]

not much, Alex5723.

I get the same message about 2004 on my old HP desktop PC using a very old nVidia graphics hardware like the one you are experiencing.

we’ll find out more on July 14th (patch Tuesday for July 2020)

• This reply was modified 4 years, 8 months ago by EP.

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I applied the 2004 update to my windows 10 pro x64

Mostly it was ok. Then I tried to access gpedit to make some adjustments.

The message was, failed to open on this machine, you do not have the right permissions. Unspecified error.

It then opens with no entries that can be accessed.

mmc.exe has a similar problem,although it opens without error, but no entries.

I can access the registry to make these changes, but gpedit would be a lot easier, and safer.

I always log in as an administrator.

On the plus side, it seems to boot and load quicker.

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Did your Desktop look different after the installation?
Is your User folder and your data in the proper places?

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woody

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Desktop and user files still all ok. I did have a bsod at one time, but nothing since.

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I installed 2004 update on June 25th on my Dell Inspiron 5548 Laptop.  It took about 3 hours.  (Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-5500U CPU @ 2.40GHz 2.40 GHz, 16.0 GB, 64 bit Operating System, x64.

I had absolutely no problems for several days.  Everything worked well and no changes to display or operation.  I did encounter an issue with my external hard drives (USB 3.0, four Seagate drives in Thermaltake dual docks) losing visibility off and on, creating some problems with backups and access at various times. (I’ve had this problem in the past using USB extension hard drives).  I attempted  to correct that with update on Intel Chipset updates on Dell failed until I reinstalled the A10 bios over top of the existing A10 bios, then the Intel Chipset installation update succeeded, and the USB drives in the docks stopped fading out and disappearing.  Everything as of 7/2 is working well.

I noticed Windows 10 error events on the disk drives (Event ID 11) controller failure error reporting, and I went to Microsoft information on that error being reported as occurring frequently among others, checked the drives with Seagate and Dell tools as perfectly operating and took the Microsoft recommendation to ignore the error as some anomaly. “There is no functionality loss as a result of System Event ID 11 being logged. This error can be safely ignored. ”  https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/2582695/system-event-id-11-is-logged-on-resume-when-an-i-o-operation-to-a-raw

My recommendation is to follow this for every PC tinkerer:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/947821/fix-windows-update-errors-by-using-the-dism-or-system-update-readiness

 

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the 2004 media creation tool is now downloading the “refreshed” 2004 version with build 19041.388 (KB4565503 CU slipstreamed)

forget about MS “yanking” version 2004 as they’re slowly stabilizing it

and

MS is slowly pushing more “forced” upgrades to 2004 for those using older Win10 versions as Born has recently noted here.

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Hearing stories about Windows updates automatically restarting computers, I made sure I did all updates before a 10 TB backup, and installing an extra 10 TB pair for a another Storage Spaces mirror.  Then when I went to add the new Storage Space, it just won’t work.  Eventually, I learn’t the update done (v2004) screws Storage Spaces so I can’t use 800 dollars worth of hard drives.  So ironic.  So deplorable.  How long does it take to push out a patch to fix critical Storage Spaces issues, not to mention critical defrag issues that are reported to exist?  If v2004 was yanked, I wouldn’t be having this problem.

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