Another interesting post from Günter Born involves Microsoft’s commitment to never again download Windows upgrade files before receiving user permissi
[See the full post at: Microsoft Germany agrees to stop forcing Windows upgrade downloads]
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Microsoft Germany agrees to stop forcing Windows upgrade downloads
- This topic has 53 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 8 months ago.
AuthorViewing 13 reply threadsAuthor-
This comes up to be too little too late. With this and everything else discussed here on this forum, I just do not trust Microsoft. Neither at home or my office.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Yea, too little too late. Microsoft dug in its heals and got what it needed done. Like they care now.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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That’s a very good question – and at the heart of what Günter is asking.
5 users thanked author for this post.
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I agree Woody. A very good question. I sure hope someone takes that up.
It gets to the heart of the matter. Does MS have the right to essentially change the COMPUTER, you bought into something you may not have wanted, because it meets their objectives. I suspect they have the right to change their software and OFFER it, but because the computer is essentially a WINDOWS computer with little other option, MS is changing that computer which the owner owns, into something he did not want.
Windows Update had as it original purpose to keep Windows secure. MS has bast*****ed it into a mechanism for it to foist its latest strategies on to a totally dependent base.
CT
4 users thanked author for this post.
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Does MS have the right…
Moral right or legal right?
They are well beyond doing what’s morally right.
Regarding legal rights… You have to specify where.
Clearly Germany is acting on what they feel is right – and what many people feel is right.
Microsoft is doing no less than attempting to change culture and expectations so that people expect what they are willing to deliver. They’re trying to redefine the software business into a service business. Do folks get upset when Verizon or Sprint or whomever changes the protocol of their telephone service? Of course not.
Microsoft wants us to stop worrying about what’s under the hood.
Trouble is, people who get useful things from computing devices don’t all or always do what Microsoft is optimizing their entire system to do. They NEED what’s under the hood. It’s a whole OPERATING SYSTEM, not an application.
But a lot of “home” users DO use such devices for fun ‘n games, and for social networking. Microsoft would love it if the rest of us would just go away and leave them to pursue only that part of the business.
Then the troublesome part rears its head…
And oh, by the way, Microsoft would really prefer it if the business people would just shut up.
Their whole “App” strategy would work marvelously for them if there weren’t all those awful, demanding enterprise / business users out there (who pay the bills).
Sorry, Microsoft, you chose not to get into the “frivolous technology use” business way back when – instead you developed things like Office and Domains and Enterprise computing. Now listen carefully: You’re never going to make the transition away from that which defines you. Isn’t that clear by now? It’s time to get over it and get back to work. People rely on Windows to do nothing less than power business and technology advancement into the future. You don’t just get to give up on that!
-Noel
5 users thanked author for this post.
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This is Canadian Tech, not anonymous. Sorry. For some reason, I keep getting signed out.
This is in reply to Noel.
For decades, Windows was mainly a tool to do things with. Entertainment was on the side as an added bonus. Microsoft’s latest strategy is turn that around and make Windows an entertainment platform, because that is more profitable. Sure people like you and I can bend it and twist it so that it can be used as a tool, but not the 99% of the other users.
The core issue as I see it is this strange situation in which you put out $1000 for a computer, which comes with a licence for some version of Windows that the manufacturer provided with the computer. Over time, personal computers (other than Apple) have become universally Windows machines. To the extent that they are effectively useless without Windows.
When you bought it, you bought something that you wanted in that it served your particular purposes. Microsoft, without the OWNERS permission essentially changes that computer into something that he/she would not have chosen to buy.
What makes this particularly bad is Microsoft’s lack of information or clarity of what they are changing your investment into.
If Windows computers were a competitive business, it would be different, but essentially, Microsoft has a monopoly and can and does manipulate your $1000 investment into a tool to produce Microsoft profit.
6 users thanked author for this post.
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Good point about lack of clarity. Being able to plan based on what Microsoft published was a big part of their being a good partner. Though their documentation has never been perfect, you could learn how long you’d have to work with a particular system and you knew what to expect next.
I’ve been using high-end Dell workstations for a long time for my engineering work. I only bring that up because my investment has been a LOT more than that $1000 you mentioned (5x to 10x more). Why? Because I need compute power to facilitate my work and differentiate my capabilities from those of others. My point: That’s not chump change, but an investment. It’s not at all good of them to reduce the clarity with which professionals can see into the future. These things are not just pet peeves – they matter.
-Noel
5 users thanked author for this post.
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Is there any trust left in Microsoft?
7 users thanked author for this post.
The thief agrees to never break into houses again as long as he gets to keep the loot he has already stolen. However, he did not agree to never rob a bank.
4 users thanked author for this post.
Share your fond memories of “Get Windows 10”…
Thanks for open up the old wound and rubbing some salt in it.
Sorry, but I have absolutely nothing but wasted and unpaid hours of work fighting that campaign and getting Win7 back to smooth running again. Even a deep search finds nothing “fond” about anything from that era…
I’m a big fan of honesty, being up-front, straight-forward and sincere, but as far as I see things, my old long-time girlfriend Microsoft was anything but the opposite and broke my heart.
*bites lips*
7 users thanked author for this post.
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A couple of years ago, back when I didn’t know quite what the Win 10 future held, I brought a Win 7 system up to Win 10 on an alternate internal disk. So what I had was, with a BIOS setting change, the ability to alternately boot up an activated Windows 10.
That disk, which was also used for daily backups, just failed about a week ago. Electromechanical devices fail. Bottom line is this: My backup boot of Win 10 is gone.
Y’know what? I really don’t feel a sense of loss. It’s almost more like a feeling of… Relief?
Win 7 on that system is running beautifully and the system continues to serve its purpose without problems…
-Noel
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Share your fond memories of “Get Windows 10”…
I have one: It was a lot of fun installing and running the GWX Control Panel and watching it remove and erase the Windows 10 claws that Microsoft had put in some computers I worked on.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server -
The GWX control panel was small, efficient and effective, and for me, had the same satisfaction of installing and bringing up-to-date an anti-virus/ anti-malware suite and setting firewall rules on the Windows OS on a fresh installation.
It was a saviour for a lot of people and good karma to the author.
Windows - commercial by definition and now function...1 user thanked author for this post.
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Gunter Born wrote
Because the free Windows 10 upgrade offer (and Microsoft’s methods to press this OS to Windows 7/8.1 systems) ended on July 29, 2016, this waiver seems without a consequence. But the question I’m asking: Does Microsoft’s feature-upgrades in combination with Windows 10 auto-update mechanism violates the cease and desist letter with the criminal injunction?.
To M$, this court order likely does not apply to auto-upgrades for Win 10, eg the coming FCU in Sep 2017, because M$ need all Win 10 Home computers to be auto-upgraded as Beta-testers or guinea-pigs for the richer folks using Win 10 Pro & Ent, who can delay the upgrade/feature-update for 365 days maximum.
… So, the Munich Consumers Association will likely have to sue M$ again if they wanna stop the Win 10 auto-upgrades.1 user thanked author for this post.
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it has no direct application in the USA or any other country besides Germany
If it applies to Germany, I suppose there should be no problems to use this as a strong argument in all EU countries.
Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider1 user thanked author for this post.
Unfortunately this does the US no favors whatsoever. Remember, MS is in bed with the NSA and has been for a long time…ETERNALBLUE backdoor – and that’s just one of many.
Windows 10, to me, is a hydra with which we’ve seen only a fraction of the heads of.
At this point, they could come out with an official “Windows 10 Spy-Free Edition” and I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.
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At this point, they could come out with an official “Windows 10 Spy-Free Edition” and I wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.
Why? Because you wouldn’t believe it? Communications (or lack thereof) can be verified. The number of online communications is not infinite and can be captured and analyzed (e.g., using hardware or systems not part of the system under test). There are a lot of geeks out here in the world who are as knowledgeable as (not to mention smarter than) Microsoft, and it’s a well-connected world. I believe it would get out in a heckuva hurry if they were to announce such a thing then cheat. But of course they’re NOT announcing such a thing.
-Noel
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Noel, I have to agree with @zero2dash. Yes, you can verify communications. But I personally wouldn’t want to have to do all of the continual research and verification required to make sure that Microsoft continues to play by the rules.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server1 user thanked author for this post.
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…all of the continual research and verification…
Fair enough, though firewalls and DNS proxies that can blacklist sites can take over that job without too much effort from the user.
And I do agree that no, we shouldn’t have to protect ourselves from our OS vendor. There are indeed real and practical differences between “trust implicitly“, “trust but verify“, and “wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them“.
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
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For decades, Windows was mainly a tool to do things with. Entertainment was on the side as an added bonus. Microsoft’s latest strategy is turn that around and make Windows an entertainment platform, because that is more profitable. Sure people like you and I can bend it and twist it so that it can be used as a tool, but not the 99% of the other users.
Ongoing tests of Linux for my work are going well. At the current pace I may be ready to make the switch to full-time Linux sooner that I’d expected. And I may have to, if Microsoft keeps making it harder and harder to keep a Windows 7 system up to date without letting the company have its way with me.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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If you don’t trust Microsoft, you will stay away from its products, and you are no longer interested in its news. Then why are you reading this forum?
That’s a valid question. Here is my answer:
1. I am in the process of moving away from using Microsoft’s products on my home computers. I’m not there yet, but I’m working on it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things which are available only for Windows, so I’m stuck for now with Microsoft.
2. My wife is not ready to make the jump. Consequently, on her computer we will stay with Windows for now. Fortunately, she has Windows 8.1, so we have six more years of security patches coming for her computer.
3. I can’t get away from Microsoft’s products at my job. We are an all-Windows shop, that is, for those products which are available for Windows.
4. I do computer support for a living. EVERY computer I have ever worked on has had some version of DOS or Windows on it. Therefore, if I am to continue to earn a living, I can’t get away from Microsoft’s products.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server4 users thanked author for this post.
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A non-E moose 😛 wrote:
If you don’t trust Microsoft, you will stay away from its products, and you are no longer interested in its news. Then why are you reading this forum?
That’s an interesting question, though it could be taken as a bit dismissive-sounding.
I think:
Some people invested a lot of their lives in partnering with Microsoft and are hoping to influence them to move more in the directions THEY need computing to go in.
Maybe others feel Microsoft can’t sustain this course and are trying to learn to make the best of things in the interim until a course correction back to the straight and narrow.
Perhaps a few contribute their thoughts for the therapy that comes from being around other like-minded thinkers and hearing that they’re not alone.
Still others just like helping other people.
But best of all, we’re all free to be here and share our thoughts respecfully.
-Noel
6 users thanked author for this post.
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Those are exactly the reasons I’m here.
5 users thanked author for this post.
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GWX Control Panel was relevant for me just a few weeks ago.
I worked on a Windows 8.1 laptop less than a month ago. It had the Windows 10 files on it, and it was just about to do an “upgrade” to Windows 10 — a window popped up which asked me if I wanted to proceed with the upgrade to Windows 10. I told it no, then I downloaded GWX Control Panel and wiped all of the Windows 10 malware off of the computer. I then left GWX Control Panel in monitoring mode, just in case Microsoft tries to sneak Windows 10 onto the computer again.
Because of this experience, I’m not convinced that the GWX campaign is over.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server -
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A lot of us may not trust Microsoft, but Microsoft is certainly asking for our trust…especially if you’re a Windows 10 insider!
How nice! /sarcasm
Now, MS is pledging not to release the builds if they have major bugs. Too bad, I guess, if your data is affected by a minor bug. I guess in upper MS managment, if the users don’t know about something, it’s better for all of us!
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Stuff like that can’t be inferred to have real meaning, yet it sounds good.
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
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The plain and simple fact is that when improper language structure is used, NO ONE can derive what the words mean, but can only imply meaning. It causes buzz (reference these very forum posts).
No part of the following can be definitely said to mean anything, other than the fact that Brandon LeBlanc isn’t skilled at expressing things in English or isn’t careful – or maybe is crafty with language like a fox (i.e., saying nothing while it looking like he’s saying good things).
Not missing. Since we’re releasing builds more quickly and we’re stabilizing, not listing them.
My take on the above, having worked with software engineers for years, was that he and his pals are already overworked fixing the bugs, and so they don’t have the time to document them.
Thing is, documentation is needed for professional work. In today’s age of unprecedented complexity and risk, it’s needed more than ever.
It boils down – as it always seems to do – to customers not appreciating bugs even if they’ve signed up to be early testers of software. However enthusiastic they may be, they really do expect things to work by the time they see the software. I don’t think that’s going to change, no matter how many buggy builds are released.
An anecdote: I used to be an “insider” and tested early software releases from Microsoft in my virtual machines. Then I became tired of it and chose to move to the slow ring. Then I became tired of it and chose to take only releases. That describes where I am now, and I’m seriously considering not even taking the first release any more, but moving to the CBB or whatever they call it. I’m decently educated, fairly smart, and experienced, and others like me have said they feel similarly. It makes me wonder… Who’s left testing fast ring builds?
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I suspect the quoted stabilizing might relate to this, from a MS Roadmap tweet:
Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (1709) development efforts now focusing on stability in preparation for release: https://t.co/tdzY8MNdM4
— Microsoft Roadmap (@On_MS_Products) 23 August 2017
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