LINUX By Chris Husted I always get strange looks from people when I tell them I use Linux on my laptop at home, as if I were some techno-nut who feels
[See the full post at: Linux — it’s all about the apps]
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Linux — it’s all about the apps
- This topic has 40 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 6 months ago.
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We have run Linux Mint on our computers ever since MS threw Windows 7 under the bus. We are non-techies here but the move to Linux was straightforward (with occasional help from this forum and elsewhere). We currently run Mate 20.3 and 21.1, both on 5-year support timetables.
One huge reason for abandoning Windows was MS’ collecting of personal information by W10 and its successors. Yes, I’ve heard that the telemetry can be minimized, but it’s too late- Mint has turned out to be a better system, and Linux has no interest in looking over our shoulders.
Unlike Windows, there is no cost to install and run a Linux system, although we do make regular contributions.
While there is a compatibility problem between the native formats of Windows office programs and the LibreOffice suite included with Linux distros, this is readily overcome. And for those who fear the “dreaded” Terminal, be aware that a Mint OS can be run via graphic user interface (GUI) if desired.
MS actually did us a favor by making the successors to W7 as unappealing as they did. Put me down as an unabashed cheerleader for Linux!
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General comments on the article:
Error: “app-get” should read “apt-get”.
Clarification of LTS support in Linux: Canonical is reducing its support for LTS editions of Ubuntu, unless you pay for a subscription, to five years, at last post from them. However, with a subscription Ubuntu support may be extended to ten years for its LTS editions. Some other distros still maintain free five- or six-year support for their LTS versions. Linux kernels in general however, are going to two years for LTS kernel versions. RedHat Eneteprise Linux (RHEL) is also going to maintain ten-year support, but this is a subscription distro of Linux. The next LTS edition of Ubuntu is due out in April, 2024, and will have five years of free support, ten years with a subscription.
Long-term support for Linux kernel to be cut as maintainence remains under strain
https://www.zdnet.com/article/long-term-support-for-linux-kernel-to-be-cut-as-maintainence-remains-under-strain/Canonical To Stick With 10 Year Support Cycle For Ubuntu LTS Releases
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-LTS-Sticks-With-10-YearsMy personal comments, briefly:
Getting Ubuntu Software only from the Ubuntu Software install app is like using only the Windows Store to get Windows 11 apps. Ubuntu, like Windows, is moving toward a subscription model. If you stick with Ubuntu, many of the programs which everyone else gets as .deb packages are instead offered only as Snaps. Think of this approach as using Windows-S and calling it a fully functional Windows ecosystem.
Snap is a self-contained virtualized ecosystem of apps and a framework. The other self-contained Linux ecosystems are Flatpak and AppImage. The latter carries with each program all its dependencies, which makes for very bulky installations. Flatpak and Snap have the advantage of being containerized, but Snap in particular has the disadvantage of making it difficult to share data among apps and to maintain a single, separate Userdata partition.
I am currently investigating Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) as an alternative. It uses Synaptic/Apt repos, the .deb installers, and the Debian underlying code base. Snap is not installed by default, though it can be added, as can Flatpak. But LMDE puts a Mint spin on top, and removes all Ubuntu-specific components which can be removed. Many apps which in Ubuntu Software install as Snaps are installed as .deb packages. This provides greater flexibility than the Snap-centric Ubuntu Software ecosystem.
Linux security has recently been under increasing attack, and it would be nice if someone felt the need to put together a good Linux antivirus program or suite. But frankly, for most consumer-level users, just keeping up to date with software updates (weekly) is probably enough.
Whatever your preferences, there is likely a Linux distro or family of distros which will fit your level of tech knowledge and your use needs quite well. You won’t be stuck with a one size fits all OS. But you will need to develop and use some skill and use some detective work if something isn’t working. Linux updates can cause spectacular breakage, and driver support is actually thinner than with Windows. Not being tied to one OS is both a blessing and a curse.
-- rc primak
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LMDE is based on Debian, it does not have any Ubuntu components in it that need to be removed. Whereas the main Linux Mint OS is based on Ubuntu and various components such as Snaps and telemetry are removed that are normally included in the Ubuntu base.
From the Linux Mint website regarding LMDE:
LMDE aims to be as similar as possible to Linux Mint, but without using Ubuntu. The package base is provided by Debian instead.
Its goal is to ensure Linux Mint can continue to deliver the same user experience if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. It allows us to assess how much we depend on Ubuntu and how much work would be involved in such an event.
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Per this Linux Mint blog post:
Snap
We also heard your queries on the topic of snapd. This is a topic which is important to us and we already explained our position last year:
[…] as you install APT updates, Snap becomes a requirement for you to continue to use Chromium and installs itself behind your back. This breaks one of the major worries many people had when Snap was announced and a promise from its developers that it would never replace APT.
A self-installing Snap Store which overwrites part of our APT package base is a complete NO NO. It’s something we have to stop and it could mean the end of Chromium updates and access to the snap store in Linux Mint.
A year later, in the Ubuntu 20.04 package base, the Chromium package is indeed empty and acting, without your consent, as a backdoor by connecting your computer to the Ubuntu Store. Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned. You can’t audit them, hold them, modify them or even point snap to a different store. You’ve as much empowerment with this as if you were using proprietary software, i.e. none. This is in effect similar to a commercial proprietary solution, but with two major differences: It runs as root, and it installs itself without asking you.
First, I’m happy to confirm that Linux Mint 20, like previous Mint releases will not ship with any snaps or snapd installed. Second, to address this situation we’ll do exactly what we said we would:
- In Linux Mint 20, Chromium won’t be an empty package which installs snapd behind your back. It will be an empty package which tells you why it’s empty and tells you where to look to get Chromium yourself.
- In Linux Mint 20, APT will forbid snapd from getting installed.
You’ll still be able to install it yourself and we’ll document this in the release notes, but by default APT won’t allow repository packages from doing this on your behalf.
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@Mothy had a good answer for this, but there is also that Mint has emerged as being Ubuntu without all of the silliness that Canonical (and GNOME, but that’s another thing) has been up to for some time now. The decision to push browsers into Snaps (with only lame excuses as to why) is just one of a series of things that have annoyed many in the Linux universe for seemingly missing the point of why people use Linux on the desktop, over and over.
I have seen scores and scores of people saying they have left Ubuntu for another distro, who would never install Ubuntu, who would never recommend it anymore, over the Snap issue. I get what they’re saying; I don’t like or use Snaps either, but it is not difficult to get rid of them, and to get things set up to get the browsers in .deb format.
Canonical has claimed the reason they are putting Firefox (and later Chromium) into Snaps is for easing their maintenance burden. They have several different Ubuntu versions that are all being maintained at the same time, which at worst means the latest LTS, the previous LTS, the one before that, and the latest short-term release. A Snap that works on all of them means they only have to build it once instead of up to four times.
But do they only build it once?
When you uninstall the Snap version of Firefox, one of the standard go-to places to get the native .deb version is from the Mozilla-team PPA, which has builds for all of the Ubuntu releases that are currently supported. That PPA is run and maintained by… yes, Ubuntu.
So they are still building, maintaining, and packaging Firefox as they always have. In addition, they also build and maintain the Snap version… which means they have one more version to maintain than before they began “saving labor.”
The burden of maintaining a browser for a distro like Ubuntu is also not very significant. Mozilla, like all other upstream developers, does all the heavy lifting, including bug fixing, adding new features, and all that stuff, and all Ubuntu has to do is let the scripts take care of it.
Sometimes the build doesn’t work, and then someone has to intervene and find out why, but that’s the case for all of the tens of thousands of packages they maintain in their repos. They are nearly all built by Ubuntu from the source released by the devs of the given projects. How much labor would Mozilla really be saving by moving Firefox to a Snap, even if they didn’t also maintain the Mozilla-Team PPA?
In reality, packaging Firefox in a Snap has increased the maintenance burden, and not just because it is one more version to build while they still maintain the others in the PPA. The Snap Firefox has proven problematic in many ways, with slow launching, poor integration with the OS and certain addons, and stuff like that. A lot more hours of work go into fixing the issues that arise from the Snap format that do not exist in native .deb, which is going the wrong way if the goal is to reduce labor costs. But if those hours of work fixing Snaps are not seen as maintenance, but as part of the development process… then their explanation of why they are doing it is just a lie.
Linux people inherently get this. If they didn’t, they would probably be using Windows or MacOS.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)5 users thanked author for this post.
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Why does the Mint team feel it’s necessary to remove components? What is it about Snap that causes them concern?
In the eyes of Linux and open-source advocates, Snap is the beginning of Ubuntu as a Service, meaning a subscription model. That is contrary to the GPL3 and Copyleft parts of Canonical’s covenant with the Linux kernel developers. There has been so much friction over this trend that many developers who used to cater to Ubuntu’s quirks have given up. Definitely not what Free Libre Open Source Software (FLOSS) is about. Purists and folks like myself who see the handwriting on Canonical’s walls are jumping ship. Very reminiscent of what happened when Microsoft came out with Windows 8. But here it isn’t the presentation and insular sandboxing of Snaps which has caused most of the furor — it’s the push-ads for the Ubuntu Pro subscription service and the appearance of offering two tiers of security releases, one of which you must pay for in the near future.
No other Linux distro I know of, other than Ubuntu flavors, has embraced Snaps as their main software delivery ecosystem. If you download Chromium under LMDE for example, you get the .deb version. But if you put in the same install line to the same terminal under Ubuntu, you have no other choice, even using Synaptic, than to install Chromium as a Snap package. There are countless other examples, and the list is growing by the day.
Flatpak is embraced by and developed for many Linux distros as an optional add-on. It has the same advantages of security, sandboxing and full packages with most of their dependencies as Snap, but without the Ubuntu Pro subscription push-ads. In both cases, developers only need to maintain one Flatpak version of their software, instead of a .deb, a .rpm and who knows what other kinds of special packaging for PacMan and other software delivery mechanisms. And in most cases, dependency issues all but disappear.
Anyway, enjoy your free subscriptions, Steve, until the day you get the billing statement from Canonical.
-- rc primak
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I’ve been using Kubuntu Linux on and off for some seven years now, as a hedge against the possibility that Microsoft’s ravenous appetite for “data” will become irresistible and especially against the prospect that Windows will ultimately turn into a subscription-only product. I chose Kubuntu because I found its desktop environment, Plasma, to be by far the most attractive of the available Linux desktops.
For several years, our experience working in a mixed Windows/Linux environment was less than satisfactory, with .DOCX files developing odd quirks (such as hard carriage returns at the end of every line in a paragraph) when moving back and forth between Word and LibreOffice, and the lack of adequate PDF editing software.
More recently, however, file compatibility seems to have improved, although in Kubuntu I’m using SoftMaker Office rather than LibreOffice; the acid test will come the next time an author sends us a manuscript written in LibreOffice. I’ve also discovered Master PDF Editor, which so far has done everything that I’ve asked it to do in terms of annotation, highlighting, text editing, and page extraction.
It also helps that WINE not only has gotten easier to use over the years, but has also greatly improved its ability to run Windows software in Linux, to the point where using standard Windows office software is now a real possibility when there is no adequate Linux alternative.
About the only remaining annoyance in Linux relative to Windows, has to do with how to insert accented characters. In Windows, you can press and hold the Alt key and type in a three-number sequence (such as Alt-164 for ñ), and in Word, in addition you can do it with Ctrl-Shift-~-n . In Linux, you need to enter a Unicode character, which involves pressing Crtl-Shift-U and then a four-character sequence: more keystrokes = slower work. Or you can call up a symbol chart, which is a clunkier method that interrupts the flow of typing.
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Hi cybertooth,
Yes the Plasma desktop is excellent and great choice for a desktop.
Plasma 6 will be out soon.
How do you fined SoftMaker Office rather than LibreOffice.
Do you find it is worth the money over LibreOffice is free.
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Compared to LibreOffice, we’ve had fewer (but not zero) compatibility issues with SoftMaker Office. SMO is less expensive than Microsoft Office, but if you’d rather try it out first, they have a free version that they’ve named FreeOffice. It’s not a trial version, you can really keep using it indefinitely, though as you can imagine, the paid version offers more features that you may decide you don’t need anyway. Still, FreeOffice will give you a good idea of what the full-fledged SMO suite is like and how it works.
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Regarding the accented characters I use the international keyboard makes it easy for éèö etc…..two key strokes and done.
Renée
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I’ve not had to deal with special characters, but in Mint 20.3 (and presumably in other versions as well) Cinnamon, you can go to system settings and choose keyboard layouts for any number of different languages. It appears you can toggle between layouts with a shortcut that you can define. There’s also something called Input Method in system settings that seems to do a similar sort of thing although more specialized for far eastern languages.
Seeing as Mint is sort of related to Kubuntu, there might be similar options in Kubuntu’s system settings that might be worth a look.
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My understanding is that KDE and Cinnamon are desktop environments, not operating systems. The operating system that Kubuntu uses is based on the operating system Ubuntu uses. And, the operating system Mint uses is based on the operating system Ubuntu uses. Hence my statement that “Mint is sort of related to Kubuntu”.
Mint comes with a variety of choices for the desktop environment, Cinnamon being one of them, the other two, IIRC, are Mate and Xfce. I don’t know what the desktop environment choices are for Ubuntu, Kubuntu, etc.
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As I have been saying, not to be argumentative, is that Mint is indeed basically Ubuntu minus the Canonical-specific components. KDE is both a DE and now a whole ecosystem, including their own software for typical office and web functions. KDE purists often pair KDE with Neon, but Kubuntu is also very popular. What I wanted to stress is that even with a KDE DE, the underlying OS is still Ubuntu, and will go the way Canonical takes their GNOME and Wayland (and Pipewire) version moving forward. That’s all I want people to realize. Thanks for trying to understand all of this.
FWIW, my remaining three Ubuntu installations are Ubuntu-Unity, which uses the Unity 7 (revised) DE, and one mobile device (formerly a Chromebook) with Xubuntu. I liked Unity, but it fell out of favor some time ago. Having also used Xfce (originally Gnome based) as well as Mint Cinnamon, I got used to the way Xfce and Mint Cinnamon use a popup/drop-down menu system, which is also rather Mac-like and Windows-like. A very nice DE. So for me, LMDE for now takes away the main threats of turning Ubuntu into a walled garden, while preserving the general look and feel of Mint Cinnamon. Everyone is entitled to our own choices, but this is how I like my Linux.
As for no PPAs, I understand Debian using this as a security argument. But it does complicate things a bit. I recently compiled from sources two dependencies for Fotoxx photo editor. That was a first for me, and it went remarkably well, thank you. Then I had to create a desktop launcher for Fotoxx, which is even more straight-forward, but not effortless.
(Nothing else in Linux does exactly the effects which Fotoxx is capable of. I also use Krita sometimes, and that’s a Flatpak. So is Handbrake. And even VLC Player with all its plugins. Don’t get me started on how oversimplified the Snap version of VLC has become!)
-- rc primak
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Sans ubuntu KDE/ plasma distro’s exist also such as debian, fedora, MXLinux etc.. That’s the beauty of Linux it’s a mish mash of things that just work per distro and clever developments. Individuality in choice through various distro’s, Love it!
Windows - commercial by definition and now function...1 user thanked author for this post.
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I’ve not had to deal with special characters, but in Mint 20.3 (and presumably in other versions as well) Cinnamon, you can go to system settings and choose keyboard layouts for any number of different languages. It appears you can toggle between layouts with a shortcut that you can define.
There are literally hundreds of keyboard layouts hidden inside of every Linux distro. You have to uncover them, and how exactly to do this differs from one distro and desktop environment to another, but it can be done. Once you’ve found the “secret sauce” for your distro and DE, it’s fairly easy to toggle between two or more layouts. I have had to do this for Search/Caps-Lock on a Chromebook (while converting it to Xubuntu) for example, and soon we may have to reassign the Microsoft Copilot Key on some Windows laptop keyboards. Keymapping also isn’t too difficult if you only need to reassign a few keys or combinations. I don’t recommend macros, as they get overridden in many programs. I’ve also had programmable LEDs on keyboards, and getting them to behave well has been much more challenging than assigning special characters to keys or toggling keyboard layouts.
-- rc primak
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Would it be accurate, then, to say that because of this, ultimately Kubuntu and perhaps all Ubuntu-based distros will be adopting a subscription model?
I don’t see how they could avoid it. They use the same Synaptic version as Canonical’s version, and they use the same Universe and Multiverse repos, both controlled by Canonical. As the Gnome version goes, so will go all flavors of Ubuntu. Only by removing the Canonical controlled bits can a distro fork itself out of the subscription model. We shall see if this proves to be true in the end. LMDE is the best hope I have seen to stay close to Ubuntu while not caving in to Canonical’s non-free roadmap for Ubuntu.
-- rc primak
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I have also seen a few strange looks even from some IT (Information Technology) co-workers when the topic of operating systems has come up and I mentioned switching to Linux Mint (little over a year ago now) on two personal desktop PC’s. So even in IT many are so entrenched in the Windows world they are not aware that Linux can be a viable alternative. I was also guilty of that mindset until the end of support for Windows 8.1 forced me out of my comfort zone and to seriously consider other options (thanks Microsoft), since the Windows as a service (WaaS) model of Windows 10 (and newer) is just not acceptable to me. I don’t need or want big brother Microsoft trying to control what is best for MY computer or worse attempting to monetize my use of the OS or any of my data which now seems to be all about trying to compensate for their over-investment in over-hyped AI (Artificial Intelligence) technologies.
Whereas Linux Mint has been designed to respect my wants/needs, has no telemetry what-so-ever, and provides full control over the OS including easy built-in control over updates, which when I choose to apply them install in a matter of minutes with no reboot required (usually only kernel updates require a reboot). Otherwise the OS stays out of my way (as an OS should) allowing me to use the computer uninterrupted for as long as I choose. It’s been quite a liberating experience. My only regret is that I did not switch to Linux years ago.
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I’ve used a variety of debian based linux distro’s for many years together with Windows, although I tend to keep them distanced with the exception of a cross-OS password manager and Office spreadsheet/wordprocessor files.
Regarding app compatibility between Windows and Linux, I’m impressed with a 64bit only office suite that Cybertooth also mentioned and uses called FreeOffice that works seemlessly between Win7 to 11 and Linux (using the supplied arial font helps across each OS, yep even in Windows and back to Linux without formatting issues)
I’ve tried lots of office suites and they always provide that extra querky workaround, whereas this just fits OUR needs once configured.
Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with the product, softmaker etc..
TIP: Use a burner email to unlock more functionality once installed
@Alex5723 will be happy to know they also provide a portable version for Windows
Windows - commercial by definition and now function... -
General comments on the article:
Error: “app-get” should read “apt-get”.
Clarification of LTS support in Linux: Canonical is reducing its support for LTS editions of Ubuntu, unless you pay for a subscription, to five years, at last post from them. However, with a subscription Ubuntu support may be extended to ten years for its LTS editions. Some other distros still maintain free five- or six-year support for their LTS versions. Linux kernels in general however, are going to two years for LTS kernel versions. RedHat Eneteprise Linux (RHEL) is also going to maintain ten-year support, but this is a subscription distro of Linux. The next LTS edition of Ubuntu is due out in April, 2024, and will have five years of free support, ten years with a subscription.
Long-term support for Linux kernel to be cut as maintainence remains under strain
https://www.zdnet.com/article/long-term-support-for-linux-kernel-to-be-cut-as-maintainence-remains-under-strain/Canonical To Stick With 10 Year Support Cycle For Ubuntu LTS Releases
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-LTS-Sticks-With-10-YearsMy personal comments, briefly:
Getting Ubuntu Software only from the Ubuntu Software install app is like using only the Windows Store to get Windows 11 apps. Ubuntu, like Windows, is moving toward a subscription model. If you stick with Ubuntu, many of the programs which everyone else gets as .deb packages are instead offered only as Snaps. Think of this approach as using Windows-S and calling it a fully functional Windows ecosystem.
Snap is a self-contained virtualized ecosystem of apps and a framework. The other self-contained Linux ecosystems are Flatpak and AppImage. The latter carries with each program all its dependencies, which makes for very bulky installations. Flatpak and Snap have the advantage of being containerized, but Snap in particular has the disadvantage of making it difficult to share data among apps and to maintain a single, separate Userdata partition.
I am currently investigating Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) as an alternative. It uses Synaptic/Apt repos, the .deb installers, and the Debian underlying code base. Snap is not installed by default, though it can be added, as can Flatpak. But LMDE puts a Mint spin on top, and removes all Ubuntu-specific components which can be removed. Many apps which in Ubuntu Software install as Snaps are installed as .deb packages. This provides greater flexibility than the Snap-centric Ubuntu Software ecosystem.
Linux security has recently been under increasing attack, and it would be nice if someone felt the need to put together a good Linux antivirus program or suite. But frankly, for most consumer-level users, just keeping up to date with software updates (weekly) is probably enough.
Whatever your preferences, there is likely a Linux distro or family of distros which will fit your level of tech knowledge and your use needs quite well. You won’t be stuck with a one size fits all OS. But you will need to develop and use some skill and use some detective work if something isn’t working. Linux updates can cause spectacular breakage, and driver support is actually thinner than with Windows. Not being tied to one OS is both a blessing and a curse.
Spectacular breakage usually only occurs with a rolling release distro such Arch Linux or Gentoo where they release frequent updates without much testing. Such distros are meant for more experienced users who like/want the latest and greatest software, understand that comes at the cost of system stability and who have the knowledge and experience (and patience) how best to fix the breakage.
Otherwise for most people it’s best to use a point release distro such as Debian, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, or Fedora, etc. which are much more conservative in releasing updates less frequently and doing more testing to ensure stability.
As an example, over the past year using Linux Mint on two computers I have had zero issues/breakage of any kind applying hundreds of updates.
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The Mint website also has an Installation Guide that’s very good and will walk you through the steps, including setting up a dual boot with Windows. It’s recommended reading before you attempt the installation.
As @Slowpoke47 says, LO documents can be saved in any MS Word/Office format. I’ve never had any problems with other people being able to read LO documents that have been saved in MS format, although some folks here on AskWoody have reported some issues.
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I’ve been running Linux since Linspire Five-O now on Mint 20,3 Cinnamon on my main PC and Mint 21.3 Cinnamon on my test machine. I have Installed Mint on laptops for a few friends who had gotten into trouble with Windows malware etc mostly the over 50 group like me, they all seem to be happier with Linux without having to go into quite a bit of training. Most use it for Internet Searches Email and photo/doc storage. Mint is somewhat familiar with what they used in Windows but a little more secure. The over-60 group seems intimidated to try this on their own but once they have used it for a few weeks can easily adapt. it is enjoyable to bring a PC back to life with a complete reinstall.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
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I’ve been running Linux since Linspire Five-O now on Mint 20,3 Cinnamon on my main PC and Mint 21.3 Cinnamon on my test machine. I have Installed Mint on laptops for a few friends who had gotten into trouble with Windows malware etc mostly the over 50 group like me, they all seem to be happier with Linux without having to go into quite a bit of training. Most use it for Internet Searches Email and photo/doc storage. Mint is somewhat familiar with what they used in Windows but a little more secure. The over-60 group seems intimidated to try this on their own but once they have used it for a few weeks can easily adapt. it is enjoyable to bring a PC back to life with a complete reinstall.
Just speaking for myself:
For folks who aren’t “power users” like me (even though I’m retired, I still need things that are only in Windows), the functionality of Linux Mint with the LibreOffice suite is plenty. But in my case, I need the connectivity to OneDrive that’s integrated in Windows (and so far is unavailable in Linux) and the functionality of some of the Office apps that just aren’t in LibreOffice. As I mentioned, until that day comes when Microsoft recognizes Linux as a legitimate program for them to fully support with their Microsoft 365 apps and integration of OneDrive’s cloud storge into the operating system, I can’t switch to it on my main system. It will remain a secondary, “tinkering” machine until that day.
//Steve//
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It has been great fun throughout this thread to interact with fellow Linux users. I hope Windows Secrets will continue to devote some space every once in awhile to Linux coverage. Thanks everyone for participating, and I’m looking forward to all of us sharing more experiences and information as Linux continues to evolve — and fork — in the future.
-- rc primak
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Are there professional-level, full-featured PDF editors for Linux that meet your licensing criteria?
For that level of features, frankly I would go with the commercial products in Windows. I have needs between read-only and the professional level, so I’m good with a mashup of free tools.
-- rc primak
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