Let’s talk about Windows 10, my least favorite subject right now

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A reader pointed me to this insightful post, from Koroush Ghazi on TweakGuides. Koroush hits so many nails straight on the head, that I’m still tickle
[See the full post at: Let’s talk about Windows 10, my least favorite subject right now]

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This is all true, however:
– Google Chrome does forced upgrades in the background and has been doing it forever.
– Mozilla Firefox started doing forced upgrades with very little documentation about how to block them, although it is possible. Mozilla also deactivates add-ons or modifies user interface with little notice when doing forced updates. It is still my favourite browser, especially after I figured out how to block the forced updates.
– Apple iOS insists on upgrading the iOS to a later version, although it is not quite forced on the user. Being at Apple, they have just released the second version of iOS 9.3 without naming it differently, like 9.3.1, 9.3a or 9.4.
Why are we talking only about Microsoft when it comes to forced upgrades? Is it because they have a much larger share of the desktop market?
Just some thoughts, by no means I am trying to say that Microsoft behaves in an ethical way, only that the standards have dropped a lot industry wide.

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I have been following you advice for several years now. I can no longer see a reason to keep any Microsoft operating system in operation. I will be switching to Apple by the end of April. I can hope to learn using it with less aggravation,than what I have gotten from MS. They think we will just go along with there BS,I am not that stupid. Please try to see if you can start a site about IOS. Thanks for all you have done for helping the general public with there computers.

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ch100: “Mozilla Firefox started doing forced upgrades…”
Are you saying they force upgrades even if you’ve chosen the “Check for updates, but let me choose whether to install them” option in Tools, Options, Update?

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Correction:

Aside from the fact that you can’t compare a browser update to an entire OS upgrade, Firefox does not do forced upgrades. It has an automatic updater built-in, as does a lot of software these days. But importantly, you don’t need to refer to any “documentation” to block it, there are clearly labeled tick boxes under the Settings>Advanced>Update tab which give you full control over the process:

– Automatically install updates.
– Check for updates but let me choose whether to install them.
– Never check for updates.

Fully transparent user choice, no trickery.

As for Apple iOS, it does not insist, nag, repeatedly prompt or try to trick you into upgrading. When a new version of iOS is available, the only prompt you will ever see is a single, static, tiny red ‘1’ badge appearing at the top right of the Settings app. That’s it. No forced upgrades, no “we strongly recommend you upgrade”, no nagging, no deception.

Microsoft hasn’t just slightly lowered the bar on the whole concept of tricking/forcing users into upgrading, they’ve grabbed the bar, hopped on board a submarine with it, and shouted “Dive! Dive! Dive!”.

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They had so much “goodwill” / brand value, not with everyone of course, but with huge numbers of people worldwide, and they are destroying so much of it, not only with industry experts and IT managers, but also with the average person/basic-level customers.
There have been mumblings in posts here and there that maybe they have been forced by entities/powers to allow more information transparency and surveillance capabilities in their newer systems and programs, as well as have decided to squeeze more money out of everything they can (allowing advertising everywhere, pushing annual licence rental instead of one-time-purchase ownership, weaving their search engine into everything, etc.), but surely there would be smoother, less-clumsy, less-alienating ways to go about that.
What a labored, time-intensive, nuts way to destroy parts of your brand image, confuse the heck out of and eventually anger folks, and mangle the introduction of your new system while needlessly tearing apart your older, popular, trusted systems.

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I’m with you 100% on this one Woody. I’m sick of dealing with Microsoft. They have gone too far. Thanks for speaking the truth. It is great to see there are still people like you with principles and ethics. Don’t ever change.THANK YOU

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Google Chrome is a browser, to stay secure online the browser and its plugins has to be updated. This is not rocket science. Windows is the whole OS, the whole computer. To even begin to comparing automatically updating a browser to forcefully upgrading a computer is ridiculous.

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To equate a browser with an OS is mind boggling.

The Microsoft OS has a 90% presence in business and government, so it is appropriate that they attract 90% of the scrutiny.

Apple has been criticized for decades for their closed OS, forced updates and their tight lipped management style. However their business model is based on entertainment, mobile apps and a minor desktop presence.

Koroush Ghazi does hit several nails on the head. It is fair criticism.

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Brilliant article, spot on.

Regarding forced upgrades, I think there is a difference here between an O/S and a single program.

Chrome and Firefox are single standalone products you don’t have to use them, but you’re pretty much stuck with an O/S which is what makes MS actions so low and unpleasant.

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Consider me tickled too.
Plus, I wholeheartedly agree with ch100’s statement that “…standards have dropped a lot industry wide.”

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The article is on target and overdue.

+1 re Firefox. It was smooth sailing until recently. Recent changes have made downloading a PDF file into a multi-step process and disabled, so far as I can tell, all of the add-ons that converted a web page to a PDF (I tried them all and have had to resort to another software that resides outside Firefox, to convert web pages to PDF).

The furor over Windows is justified because the OS is uniquely important.

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The second paragraph says it all.

By choosing to use Chrome or Firefox (not the default) YOU accept the changes. Although, I have never had a forced upgrade of Firefox (I have always done HelpAbout and chosen the time myself). I have NEVER had a forced updateupgrade on my Macs or iPhone – I have always chosen the time andor whether to do it.

But MS is taking shameful advantage of their categorically unaware captive audience, calling it an “accident” or just outright lying about the forced upgrades. They have sneaked the upgrade in as a checked optional update, when the average user is little aware of updates or their settings – the default being Automatic at 3:00am with “recommended” included. I am tech-savvy, but my friends and family are not. I have caught firsthand the forced upgrades in the process, with no way to decline or at least a very deceptive way that would be transparent to the average user. I KNOW this is happening at no fault to the Users, even as MS claims that the most frequent question on their help desk is “How can I get Win10.”

I have been running the Technical Preview since Oct 2014. I DO NOT use ANY of the dumbed-down Universal tile apps. Edge sucks – choose Firefox or Chrome. I hate BING, but can’t escape it totally in Win10. Sooner or later the peer-to-peer Windows Update will be compromised (my opinion). It is inevitable that forced system updates, with features, security, and drivers mixed together, will produce wide-spread failures. And so on!

I too have become disillusioned with MS and have lost interest in Win10. I have thought about just abandoning the Tech Preview altogether. The only thing that keeps me involved at this point is my knowledge will help me support the Users out there that have been duped by MS.

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[Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch]. It sounds like someone is ready to change careers, or retire. Get off my lawn.

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Ah, would that I could! I use iOS and Android fairly frequently, but don’t feel qualified to start a site devoted to either. Too bad, really, because from what I’ve seen Apple could use the same kind of jaundiced eye I’ve been casting at Microsoft for all these years.

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HA! I had the same reaction to several of Paul Thurrott’s latest comments.

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Great article, very well put by the author. I agree 100%.

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I’m one of the few to not jump the Gun on OS upgrades, I normally wait till a SP comes about then move. The only issue with Win10 is the automatic update schematic which should be choice based like Win7 and Older (never Used Win 8), I know you can set the connection to Metered as a work around but MS seriously needs to get their head out of their wazoos on this, that there are still power users among the average joe out there

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I believe MS about their claim on the question “How can I get Win10.” They merely omit the additional words such as “off my computer” or “to stabilize” and other words to that variations.

I have one question, would the classic shell help with any of that?

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I would just like to add that updating to Windows 10 is NOT my problem. My problem is the company who writes our software is not Windows 10 compliant. It seems like our programs are always five years behind. And in order of us to get any work done, we can’t use Windows 10. We just got the OK to use IE11 a couple months ago. Microsoft NEEDS to understand that not everybody has the option to just install any upgrade that comes along!!

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Classic Shell certainly does make Windows 10’s Start menu more like Windows 7’s – and for most people that’s a good thing.

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Your observation of Microsoft is spot on. They no longer have their customers best interest in mind. When Vista is no longer supported by the end of this year I am going to purchase an Apple Computer. I have an Apple I-Phone and love it. Their products are expensive, but worth every penny.

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Bravo, Koroush!

Microsoft has crossed a threshold over which MANY of us cannot follow.

I authored successful “Configure the Windows 7 ‘To Work’ Options” and “Configure the Windows 8 ‘To Work’ options eBooks.

However Even though I have found ways to tweak Windows 10 to do most of the same things I am just not going to do a Windows 10 version of my book.

Why?

Because, plain and simple, Microsoft is moving away from what’s right, just as fast as they can.

And through their constant upgrade BS they’re making it as painful as possible for people who try to do anything but whatever stupid out-of-the-box “App” things Microsoft wants them to do.

Further, they’ve adopted an aggressive stance exceeding that of most malware authors and trying to force people off perfectly good older systems.

I’m simply not feeling ANY love for Microsoft any more and I won’t have anything to do with making their very wrong approach successful.

Tweaking an OS helps people make things more usable, but just there’s no sense to do it if the OS maker is actively trying to thwart such activity at every turn.

-Noel

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I just did the math in my head, and I’ve been using Microsoft development products for 20 years now (started with VB3/Access 2.0). I have absolutely no desire to write or support any “Universal App’s” or whatever it is they’re trying to do. I’m done. Finished. I don’t want it anymore. I’m tired of Microsoft being so schizophrenic. First, VB/VBA is the best thing since sliced bread, then they break it when .NET comes along so our programs don’t work anymore (though they still keep it in Office – go figure). Then XP, Vista and Win7 are touted as the next best things since sliced bread, and now are just so much garbage to them. Enough! I will never load Win10 on any of my home computers (I’ve already moved to Linux), nor will I write anything for the Windows Store. It’s only a matter of time before I finish getting my finances together enough to get out of software development altogether and start my own business, then it’s goodbye forever, Microsoft. And I won’t miss you!

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Ch100, consider this… It’s why I don’t use anything Google or Apple products and it was the one thing that differentiated Microsoft. Now instead of MS being the leader they are following the corrupt behavior of the other companies! Actually I do support Tim Cook in standing up to the FBI. My question to Mr. Cook is… Now that you know the FBI can get into the IPhone 5… What are you going to do about it?

And Woody, Kudos to you my friend! Microsoft’s shenanigans at user expense is loathsome!

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Updates aren’t forced if there is user control over how they are installed.

Mozilla provides such options in Firefox and they are easy to find.

Extensions that are not compatible with new versions and updates are automatically disabled. That makes more sense than letting extensions/add-ons that have not been maintained or otherwise appropriately updated crash the browser.

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This caught my eye…

http://zorinos.com/

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Nice to see another veteran around these parts.

My first book was about programming in VB and WordBasic in Windows 3. We updated the title at the last minute, when Microsoft released Windows 3.1.

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MS tactics for forcing Windows 10 into any unprotected orifice they can locate has made me extra vigilant in my day job as to which patches will be pushed. I no longer trust anything they offer at face value.

The recent decision to push Win 10 ads into an explorer patch was the new low. What do you do when you lose all that goodwill from your professional community? My guess for MS is to find a new way to sink to new depths.

I found this article the other day on W10 and couldn’t agree more, especially when he compares it to spyware

http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

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Koroush may not have done his brief Windows 10 tweak guide, but his concise description of what is wrong with Microsoft and Windows 10 is simply magnificent.

It should be required reading for anyone contemplating moving to Windows 10, AND every M$ employee from Nadella down.

Bravo!

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Aside from generally agreeing with most of the foregoing comments regarding MS’s aggressive and sleazy tactics to force W10 upgrades on perfectly good and stable PC systems, I would also point out that conceptually the whole W10 strategy has a huge least common multiple problem embedded at its core. MS, in its desperate efforts to become more relevant in mobile has pushed the concept of the Universal Windows Platform (UWP) in hopes of getting developers to populate the Windows App store. Unfortunately, most of these apps are nearly useless on a powerful desktop system when compared to the legacy programs that performed either necessary or mission critical tasks. MS has not come to grips with the fact that Android and iOS apps will dominate this space and MS would be better served to port say Android apps to run on Windows rather than turning the entire Windows ecosystem on its collective ear. Many folks feel that MS has been behaving in an unethical manner in pushing W10. Everyone needs to draw their own conclusions, but I for one do not find all the disjointed explanations and contorted communications emanating from MS to be very credible. Although it is true that I was born at night at a very young age, it was not last night!

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The linked article is a heckuva good summary.

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Wow!!!

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At least this was the case few versions back. Now I don’t know as I am doing the configuration blocking in mozilla.cfg file. I will not go into details about this configuration here, just saying that it can be found in documentation knowing what to look for.

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Opening with keylogger and dropping the mic seems appropriate. I think of all things that have been done thus far boil down to the lack of choice and control. As a security minded person I want to understand the changes to applications and certainly the operating system. This latest incarnation takes that all away and I cannot in good conscience recommend this upgrade path. What’s really sad is that the collateral damage from all of this will be very significant. Required reading for anyone thinking of upgrading should list in detail what’s actually happening and Woody has pointed some of this info out already. It’s just sad.

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Re. Firefox. The settings are honoured until you go to Help/About Firefox, in which case would update automatically regardless of that setting.
This is well known behaviour for at least 1 year.
Some people learnt to live with it, others like me learnt to configure it in a ‘policy’ style using well hidden features built into the product.

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This is usually where the Linux folks jump up amd say na, na,na

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Another view on the same subject. Interesting reading.
http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

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