Laptop boots only if CMOS battery is removed, then replaced

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this Dell Latitude E6400, win7pro, began to show a problem of spontaneous rebooting when the lid repositioned during operation, several days later it finally failed to boot. The power button ‘l e d’ stopped lighting and the laptop was unresponsive. I thought the power button had failed but I tried removing the cmos battery and replugging it and the laptop booted. It will warm boot but will only cold boot if the cmos is unplugged and replugged. Hopefully this is not a motherboard failure…any ideas about repair???

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Have you tried running Dell’s Diagnostics on it to see if it finds anything http://www.dell.com/support/Diagnostics/us/en/19/

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Great reminder, thanks, numerous attempts in the past to run the diagnostic via firefox failed but thanks to your suggestion i tried IE11 and ran the complete test. All hardware passed except the usb test could not run. The diagnostic overall score was ‘could not run’ which i found a little confusing. I think I may have an hardware failure of some item that runs on cold boot but not on warm boot…but I have no idea what that is or if the usb test means anything. The usb ports recognize flash drives when inserted.

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Do2,

Have you tried a new battery? :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Yes, a new CMOS battery from Dell was installed and no change in problem.

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This is a very interesting topic to me and that Dell PC DIagnostics site looks like a great suggestion

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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DO2,

Have you checked the Dell site for a BIOS upgrade? :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Thanks for this reminder. Apparently Dell updates the BIOS regularly. I updated from the A19 to the A34 but no change in boot oddity that requires unplugging and replugging the cmos battery. I live about 10 miles from Michael, reckon he would help solve this issue? 🙂

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You may need to have an USB plugged in for it to run its test.

Because of the nature of your problem, having reset the CMOS, the system is working and if nothing is broken at the time of testing then it’s going to come up clean, but thought the Diagnostics were worth a shot.

If the BIOS is having problems telling Windows what to load without first being refreshed, it could be sticking over a particular driver and checking to see if it will boot up okay in Safe Mode with Networking without it needing to be reset, could be a pointer.

If that works then go Start, type msconfig and press Enter then under the Boot tab check Boot log – Apply – OK to see if it’s having problems with any.

To view the log, navigate C:Windows – scroll down to and double click on ntbtlog.txt and it will show if it didn’t load any (you may have to open it in Notepad if that isn’t default).

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First, thanks for your help, feedback and time. I can try a warm boot into safe mode, if that will suffice. Let me try to be clearer about this unusual problem. The laptop power button is ‘dead’ unless i unplug and replug the cmos bat. If i reinstall the cmos bat the power button will activate only if i move the screen “up&down” until power restores at one point in the movement. Cold booting will not occur without cmos bat repositioning. I did update the bios from vA19 to vA34. no change in problem except i did try several other updates that I need to uninstall.

Now, added to my problem is another workaround, for rebooting I now must to get an option to boot from the harddrive. I believe a Dell update for the laptop needs to be uninstalled to correct.

I did receive a new error on the latest cold boot after cmos bat reposition: TPM not initialized. Unhandled exception for “Gdip” A generic ereror occurred in GDI + Stack trace at System Drawing. SafeNativeMethods.Gdip.GdipCreateFontFromLogfrontW(HandleRefhdc, Object If, IntPtr & font.. The error description continues another 41 lines and I can’t get it to copy to anything save typing it.

Another oddity upon last cold boot the time&date came up 6/4/2013 1:06am rather than the 2009 origin date, I suppose the BIOS update caused that change.

I understand how odd the cmos battery unplug/replug sounds. I do think I am totally confused by it.

my Dell Diagnostics results attached file.

Motherboard: System Board
Chipset: Intel GM45/PM45/GS45/GL40/GS40
Southbridge: Intel 82801IEM (ICH9M-E)
Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
Product: 0U695R

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There are certainly great ideas to refer to and I would certainly follow up on them

I tried to find the manual for your computer but cannot find it but you should be able to get it by entering your service tag
I was hoping to find your motherboard design to try to figure out how replacing the CMOS battery recovers from whatever power problem your computer is having

In doing a little more research, I’d like to mention some observations even though I can’t find the manual for your pc

In one type of Dell Latitude E6400 manual
ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_laptop/esuprt_latitude_laptop/latitude-e6400-xfr_Service%20Manual_en-us.pdf
there are diagnostics light codes during post beginning on page 7
So if you do a cold boot look for the diagnostics light codes to see if it helps narrow down the area you need to work on
— If you go and get the manual for your computer, it wouldn’t surprise me if it has diagnostics like codes during post to help you out
— Then you can post back us what you found

On your Dell Latitude E6400, is win7pro the original OS?
According to http://data.manualslib.com/pdf/4/367/36618-dell/latitude_e6400.pdf?ac261b50e180de93dfa5256d7c32b7f8&take=binary it might have been a Vista computer
— If this is so, there could be a driver issue
— Also the computer has DDR2 memory and may have been ok when it was Vista but maybe there’s an issue when upgrading to Win7 Pro
— Is the Win7 Pro OS 32-bit or 64-bit
—— If it’s a 64-bit OS, DDR2 might be a factor

Please note those are rough observations but if you can point us to the correct manual for your computer it might help us all out

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Thanks for your help and feedback…more than mighty confused, I’m lost in this problem. Yes, Win7 Pro OS 32bit is original. I had read about the light code but I don’t see the code at my oddity of a cold boot. Next cold reboot i will watch the light array closely. The motherboard is
System Board Chipset: Intel GM45/PM45/GS45/GL40/GS40 Southbridge: Intel 82801IEM (ICH9M-E) Manufacturer: Dell Inc. Product: 0U695R

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@ cmptrgy – DDR2 is fine and this is a recent problem on an otherwise working machine.

@ do2 – Can you be more specific about what you mean by repositioning the screen ?

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Thanks, Sudo15. By repositioning just mean moving the laptop lid up & down. my first thought was a frayed wire, but once the laptop boots after the cmos bat is reinstalled, after the initial required up and down movement of the lid, the connection is solid and the screen can be moved without any connection problem whatsoever.

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Do you really mean the CMOS battery (a small disc shaped battery located on the motherboard) or do you mean the laptop battery that plugs into the rear of the laptop.

Jerry

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yes sir…kinda hard not to find it. it’s a common 2032 button in a plastic sock with a 3 wire connect via female push plug right next to the system fan. Dell sells it for $12.95 plus $7 shipping. I was tempted to make my own from a 2032 on hand, but thought better.
When I got the new cmos battery and installed it, there was no change in the boot issue.

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When you reset the CMOS each time are you also resetting the clock ?

Edit

What are your power settings regarding Hibernation when the lid is closed ?

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I do reset the clock forcing a ping with windows time each cold boot.

I cannot allow hibernation because it will force me to cold boot. I allow the screen to turn off but otherwise keep the laptop on rather than having to get to the cmos battery.

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I was going to suggest disabling Hibernation if it was on but having to move the hinge could point to a problem with the hinge switch, which only a strip down and checking the connections would do, but I don’t know how that would relate to having to remove the CMOS battery.

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This is so odd and confusing. Why would the hinge problem correct itself after having booted…I can remember the hinge problem first caused reboots but now, since I have been able to boot after replugging the cmos bat, it no longer causes the reboot during operation. It seems to be a moving target.

I continue to believe this may be a problem unique to Dell laptops…

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I’ve been researching the TPM error message and while your exact model isn’t listed in http://www.wave.com/support/trusted-platform-module-tpm-disabled-unavailable-or-locked-1 it may be worth a read to see if anything could apply to your model.

There’s also these articles

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc732718.aspx

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc753140.aspx

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Just thinking over your actions in removing/replacing the CMOS battery, if the above hasn’t helped.

I assume you are closing the lid prior to turning it over to remove the battery – do you still have to move the lid again after opening it back up before it will boot and have you tried doing all of that without removing the battery to see it will boot up then ?

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Correct assumptions…I have had the laptop in a number of positions, including inverted both with lid closed / opened, without replacing the cmos battery and each time the laptop appears to be ‘dead’ until I remove the rear cover and unplug/replug the cmos battery. Note that once replugged I must move the ‘lid/screen’ up and down until I see either the power button l.e.d. or the hard drive l.e.d. catch power. The Dell start scrn appears shortly thereafter. Doing a cold boot requires neurotic behavior + cmos battery replugging to get the darn thing to begin booting.

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For me, this still points to a problem with the hinge switch and either stripping it down or taking it in for a tech to look at is the way I would go if a check of the connections didn’t show up anything obvious.

Resetting the CMOS is obviously doing something, but still having to disturb something by moving the lid afterwards tends to point to a tech problem.

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Thanks, Sudo15. I have a few concerns about using a tech shop, primarily the cost vs laptop’s actual value but I’m leaning that direction. Appreciate your time, ideas and helpfulness.

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If you do decide to take it in, then ask the tech to contact you before carrying out any repairs so that you can decide on their viability and while its current state is an annoyance, if you can continue to put up with it then leave it as it is – unless someone else can come up with another possible reason why this is occurring.

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I just came back from a 3 day “vacation” and would like to review what I’m noticing
Moving the laptop lid, removing/reinserting the CMOS battery and last but certainly not least a cold boot vs a warm boot are factors.

On moving the laptop lid
— Set it to a comfortable position for you and do not move it for a whole day but use it like you normally do
— Shut the computer off at night but do not close the lid, leave it as is
— Start it up in the morning, again with out touching the lid
— I’ll suspect it won’t boot up as it’s a cold boot as you have described but I would still try it
— Post back on the results

On the CMOS remove, reinsert phenomena it’s related to a cold boot vs a warm boot
— It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a cold solder joint, pinched joint or defective component involved and the CMOS has a jump start effect and that’s why the differerence between a cold boot vs a warm boot
— When moving the lid, the cold solder joint etc effect or the time/spot of the incident will vary
—— I would allow for the possibilty of a power feed from the motherboard thru the hinges to the display panel to be a problem but that’s pure speculation right now
— If that is the case, that can be a troubleshooting nightmare without the proper tools and schematic to work with
— Wish I could be more positive on this idea and I wish I could explain it better

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Thanks, cmptrgy; I’ll give it a go. The problem first arose during normal operation and as the lid was adjusted slightly an immediate reboot occurred. Then it could only cold boot when adjusting the lid while pressing the start button. Finally, only the cmos batt removal would allow a cold boot. I’ll shutdown for several hours and try your idea.

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Most if not all computers contain a error register chip that stores an error code. This register is used by the BIOS and OS for certain errors to ensure you do not damage your system on Boot or warn you of potential problems. By removing the CMOS battery, that error registry is reset (kind of like a single-shot circuit) and you get to create the error again and in this case it allows you to boot one time. Having read all the threads here, I have to agree you have a cold solder joint and/or a broken wire/connection that makes and breaks as you move the display, thus completing the circuit and probably generating the error. To repair this you should have a trained technician working on this or if that is you, you will know what to do.

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‘Appreciate your advice, winsong02. The laptop is several years old (Intel Core2 Duo P8800 @ 2.66GHz) so cost of repair could prove excessive. ‘Probably shouldn’t ask this, but can you recommend a technician in the Austin-Round Rock area?

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One more thought came to my mind just in case it might help
After you try your experiment, shut the computer back down
Do your remove/reinsert CMOS procedure
Connect a known good externa monitor to your laptop.
Raise the lid back up to a comfortable position not for display purposes but to just have it in a stationary position
— Power the unit up making sure the laptop lid/display isn’t moved
— Use the computer for a while preferably a whole day
— Shut the computer down
— In the morning start it back up normally
— If it starts normally most likely the cold solder joint etc is in fact related to the display/lid unit somehow.
— If it doesn’t cold boot, then the issue can go back to the motherboard some how, maybe into the BIOS error code factor that wingsong02 so aptly described

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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Certainly your idea is worth a try. Thank you for your ‘outta the box’ ideas…greatly appreciate. I’ll shut down tonite and try your earlier idea then upon completion of the cmos batt ritual I’ll connect a Dell monitor. That will allow another review of the 3 keyboard lights as well.

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Certainly your idea is worth a try. Thank you for your ‘outta the box’ ideas…greatly appreciate. I’ll shut down tonite and try your earlier idea then upon completion of the cmos batt ritual I’ll connect a Dell monitor. That will allow another review of the 3 keyboard lights as well.

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I would also suggest saving your data

On the specs you provided I just bought a refurbished computer with very similar specs with Win7 Pro for only 244.00 for my brother and it works like a charm. As you said the cost of repairing your computer could become excessive so I thought I would mention the items I just did

HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

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thanks again, cmptrgy. I’ve tried the workarounds you suggested. No difference was noted in booting except the frayed wire, or other issue, is getting worse so cold booting is certain to fail soon, so appreciate the lead on refurbs. I’ll also try to do a tech repair if I can find one where the cost warrants proceeding. Enjoy your weekend.

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Two things:

1. An identical refurbished laptop would mean that you could just swap hard drives and be immediately back in business, if there is a non-hard drive hardware problem with your laptop. Walmart.com is a good place to go for a refurbished computer. They are less expensive there than at other places, and if there is a problem with it, you can easily return it at any Wal Mart.

2. No one has suggested that you test the battery you received from Dell, to make sure that it’s a good battery. If it proves to be a bad battery, you can get the same battery at most stores (e.g. Walgreens) for just a few dollars.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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