I agree with Gartner about once every two blue moons, but this one’s right on. Read Gregg Keizer’s synopsis in Computerworld. Enterprise is the only h
[See the full post at: Keizer: Windows 10 Pro is a dead end for the enterprise, Gartner says]
|
Patch reliability is unclear, but widespread attacks make patching prudent. Go ahead and patch, but watch out for potential problems. |
-
Keizer: Windows 10 Pro is a dead end for the enterprise, Gartner says
- This topic has 73 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 10 months ago by
.
AuthorViewing 12 reply threadsAuthor-
Windows 10 Pro is a dead end for the enterprise, Gartner says
Recent changes by Microsoft to the Windows 10 support schedule underline why Windows 10 Pro is an ill fit for most companies.By Gregg Keizer | May 29, 2018
Windows 10 Pro is a dead end for enterprises, a prominent Gartner analyst has argued.“[We] predict that Microsoft will continue positioning Windows [10] Pro as a release that is not appropriate for enterprises by reducing … support and limiting access to enterprise management features,” Stephen Kleynhans, a research vice president at Gartner and one of the research firm’s resident Windows experts, said in a report he co-authored.
Microsoft’s Windows 10 Pro occupies the middle ground between the consumer-grade Home and the corporate-level Enterprise in features, functionality and price. Because Enterprise versions of Windows have never been available to computer makers, Pro – sometimes, as in Windows 7, tagged Professional instead – has been the most popular pre-installed OS on new business PCs. (Corporations typically re-image new personal computers with Enterprise upon receipt of the devices.)
Read the full article here
8 users thanked author for this post.
-
Also from Gregg today:
Gartner: Enterprises should demand 2 full years of Windows 10 support
Two analysts said corporate users should push Microsoft to turn a temporary 24-month Windows 10 support lifecycle into a permanent fixture.By Gregg Keizer | May 29, 2018
Corporate customers should lobby Microsoft to turn a temporary 24-month Windows 10 support lifecycle into a permanent fixture, according to Gartner Research analyst Stephen Kleynhans.“Twenty-four months would be better for everybody,” Kleynhans said.
Read the full article here -
Mr. Keizer managed to get 2 articles from the same Gartner report. Excellent writing, since he focused on 2 different impacts. Yet Kleynhans & Silver are right; Microsoft doesn’t even care about the enterprise & small business, as long as it can monetize Windows & expand its reach. Providing 24 months of support to enterprise customers & ensuring Pro stays a viable option for small business are not goals for Microsoft.
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again... -
-
-
I appreciate the appeal to authority aspect of having a more organized call for change, complete with institutional presence and recognizable names. But the very logical argument is rhetoric all the same. It reads as making the very same points that have been discussed in this Lounge and other fora some time now. Is there any indication or even hope left that Microsoft might finally adjust their obvious path, now that one more opinion piece has been written?
I would like to see the change happen, and will welcome it if it comes. But I will also continue to inhale and exhale all the same. Holding my breath in anticipation has proven poor for my health.
-
Maybe it’s time to rename it Windows 10 Semi-Pro.
8 users thanked author for this post.
-
Microsoft told us they want to “monetize” Windows any way they can, and they certainly have kept their word on that point.
Getting rid of the paid beta testers and forcing Windows feature upgrades on unwilling consumers while forcing telemetry is a form of monetization. These users become the new beta testers for a product they paid for, which is a great deal for Microsoft, which has admitted to this strategy. “By putting devices on the Current branch for Business, enterprises will be able to receive feature updates after their quality and application compatibility has been assessed in the consumer market, while continuing to receive security updates on a regular basis,” writes Jim Alkove on behalf of Microsoft.
The ads in Windows 10 are, of course, a form of monetization. When I first installed Windows 10 in 2015, the first notification that greeted me was an offer to “Get [Microsoft] Office.” In the navigation pane was OneDrive, and in the system tray was XBOX. Ads all, since I had never expressed any interest in these services. Or, perhaps, they were “promos,” since that’s the industry term for ads that are for products offered by the owner of the advertising platform itself (like a TV station advertising its other shows). They’re still ads to me, though, and they’re certainly attempts to monetize whatever you want to call them.
When it was first released, there was no way to use the Windows Settings or Control Panel to make Cortana use a search engine other than Bing, but you could do it with a registry setting. As soon as MS discovered people were doing this, they fixed it so that Bing use was mandatory. Driving customers into Bing searches when they want to be doing Google searches, so that Microsoft gets the sponsored link revenue instead of Google, is monetization.
The same is true of the refusal to let first Home users, then Pro users (in one of those aforementioned “Dead End” deals as in the original article) turn off web searches from the Start Menu. More unwanted web searches means two neat things… first, MS gets a list of your searches (although reports to the effect that Win 10 was contacting Bing with every local search existed even when it was possible to have local searches), and second, more opportunities to serve up sponsored links. People may SAY they don’t want to do a web search every time they are looking for something locally, but the odds of clicking on a sponsored link are 0 if MS lets them turn the web search off, while those odds are non-zero if MS forces the ads on them over their protestations. Annoying the customer vs. a chance at a few cents of revenue for a click-through? MS chose the few cents.
The same thing is true of blocking access to the MS Store, formerly the Windows Store, and formerly an option on Win 10 Pro. The odds that someone may decide to go to the store and look for something are zero while the store is blocked, but they’re non-zero while it is unblocked, even if the owner of that computer vows never to use the store and curses its very existence.
I’ve written that I recently sent my Dell Inspiron 11 laptop in to Dell for servicing under warranty for having a flickering screen. Before doing that, I created a Macrium Reflect image of the internal drive onto an external HDD, and I then restored the original Windows 10 that the unit came with. I didn’t do this because I feared that Dell would void the warranty if they found I had been using Linux… they don’t do that. I did it so that when they looked at the flickering, they would know it’s not because of the Linux drivers or something in Linux causing it.
Well, when I got the little computer back, the flicker was gone, but I was greeted with a half-page ad for Spotify right there in my Windows desktop. I don’t think Dell installed it while the PC was in for service… I’d removed all kinds of stuff (McAfee, MS Office trial, all of the Dell nagware, etc.) and none of it was back on the laptop when it came home. It had to have been already there, waiting for a trigger from the internet to pop up the ad on me.
Monetization!
The removal of any rudimentary control over updates in the Home version is, as I mentioned, necessary for Home users to be good little beta testers (who don’t know how to file a bug report). They have to be made to test the version MS wants them to test, so no control over updates, and the bug reports have to flow, so no off switch for the telemetry. Even so, the other day it occurred to me that the aggressive use of Home users as cannon fodder has another monetization effect… it drives actual home users of Windows, who are ostensibly the people Windows 10 Home is written for, to upgrade to Pro, just to get a modicum of control over the updates on their own PC (but still far less than they would have had with Windows 8.1 or 7 Home).
The Home users are being pushed into Pro, which means more money for Microsoft, but it also means that Pro is the new Home– which is what the article is talking about in the first place. This works very well with the MS monetization pain train, with the supposed natural users of Pro (businesses that don’t have enterprise contracts with MS, or that don’t have them on all their machines) being pushed to GET those enterprise contracts with MS, even if the business is really not big enough to even qualify as “enterprise,” just to be able to lock out the consumer nonsense like forced downloads of Candy Crush Soda Saga (more monetization!) and being able to block the Windows Store (which a business owner might want to do for computers his employees should be using to do their jobs, which very often does not include browsing and downloading programs the business owner does not want on there).
Windows customers are being squeezed for every penny MS can figure out how to extract, and MS is trying new ideas all the time. Some things, like the ad for OneDrive storage space that appeared in Windows Explorer itself, were a bridge too far even for the basically compliant Windows 10 users, and the outrage over that one thing let MS know what the boundary was with pushing ads. They will keep trying new things, and the few things that cause genuine outrage will get another “aw, shucks” from Microsoft, as Woody put it, and they will keep doing what they’re doing.
Microsoft isn’t going to get the message. They’ve heard it, had a good laugh, and rejected our requests to stop being treated as guests on our own machines. When there’s a choice between serving the customer’s stated need and serving their own desire to monetize Windows, the customer loses– exactly opposite of what would happen with any OS that is actually fit for purpose.
The job of the OS is to serve the owner of the computer, in the manner stated by that owner, without hesitation, equivocation, or conflict. “Serving Microsoft” shouldn’t even be one of the entries on the priority list. Even Windows 10 enterprise fails in this metric, though it is a lot better than consumer versions. Until the enterprise customer can take full control of updates and keep using one build for at the very least three years (five would be better), it’s not fit for purpose either.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)Total of 25 users thanked author for this post. Here are last 20 listed.
-
I have never used WinX. Your rant has illuminated me in terms of what Microsoft is doing with WinX, and with complete disregard to what both enterprise and consumers alike actually desire in terms of an operating system for their computers.
The way I see it, Microsoft truly is the next Chrysler since Nadella is literally directing Microsoft to become the next Chrysler, and nobody is stopping him. Nadella of course could not do this if the same type of slimy corporate infrastructure as within Chrysler was already in place. It is what it is. It is playing out. And at this point, it will inexorably play out since those who have been given pink slips in terms of Windows, are gone and they sure has h*** will never return to Microsoft.
-
Chrysler is better managed and more competent people than MS at this point.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
Even so, the other day it occurred to me that the aggressive use of Home users as cannon fodder has another monetization effect… it drives actual home users of Windows, who are ostensibly the people Windows 10 Home is written for, to upgrade to
Pro, just to get a modicum of control over the updates on their own PC (but still far less than they would have had with Windows 8.1 or 7 Home).other platforms that don’t treat them as a Microsoft asset, but as individuals in control of their own hardware.FTFY.
EDIT: Then I read to the end of the post, and found that it didn’t really need fixing. Outstanding post, Mr. Ascaris.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Kind of makes you think that all of the effort put into keeping up with Windows10 would be better spent getting something like Linux Mint to work in your small business.
The only fly in the ointment is that some businesses use proprietary software which isn’t available in Linux. Unless they can get their software to work with Wine, or unless they find a Linux version of their needed software, they will be stuck with Windows.
I suppose the least repulsive option would be to run Windows10 in a VM within Linux, and then just run the VM only when needed.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server -
Another option would be to check out Codeweavers (paid option), who have already done the work with Wine on various Windows programs to make it plug and play in Linux/Mac:
https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility
They are also willing to work on porting specialized applications :
https://www.codeweavers.com/porting
Again, this is a paid option, but the benefit of that is that they will work with you, and they do support their software. Another benefit is that you don’t have to run a Windows VM (which has it’s own overhead, and potential issues with updates, licensing, etc).
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
This is such a great piece. Looking at the big picture like this makes it all very clear that milking the cow until it dies is the strategy and it clearly looks worse for my needs in the future. But it is possible the cow might not die since I don’t think people are as able or ready to act as they are outraged, if they are at all.
For every MrJimPhelps, there are a lot more shruggers that will simply think c’est la vie and accept the new normal that is proposed.
-
Lengthy but dead on, Ascaris. I would add continual problems with Windows updates makes other options look very reasonable whether it is a Chromebook, Mac, or a Linux distro. From what I have heard about Chromebooks, see with Macs, and personally experience with Linux, the user has much control of their box with the OS respecting their choices when updating. Also, their updates seem to be less problematic even considering the reputation of Arch Linux (I use a derivative of Arch) for being problematic.
A side note about enterprise users installing software. In my group, we do not normally install any software ourselves. When it is done, which for me averages about every 18 months, usually one has to get someone with administrative privileges to do it. So having access to a software repository is basically pointless.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Pro versions were never meant to be used in large businesses, but in small business and by power users. Some larger businesses use Pro though for laptops issued to employees for corporate (and sometimes limited private) use, however this was never recommended practice.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
That’s quite true.
It’s also true that, for many years, there were few if any differences between Pro and Enterprise versions.
We’re seeing a major shift from “pay once” to “rent” and it’s being reflected in the Pro feature set.
5 users thanked author for this post.
-
I always bought Ultimate for both my personal use and business use. Until I couldn’t with Win 8.1, then I bought Pro Media Center Edition. Then Windows 10 came out and I bought nothing more from Microsoft. I doubt very seriously that they’ve scraped any value off of selling data about my usage or from the one or two ads I’ve seen in the past 5 years.
Microsoft became hugely rich on the prior model – i.e., the “create something of value then charge money for it” model. Why does it have to be different?
-Noel
-
-
-
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Not a big difference between Pro and Home. As Gregg said, many businesses use Pro and not enterprise to save a bit on licensing. Heck some small businesses even use Home so there’s that too. I think Microsoft should allow everyone to decide if they want feature updates every six months or not. It should be a optional upgrade at first. Microsoft also needs to stop with trying to meet deadlines for feature releases when its not really ready for public release. I think they pushed out Spring update is a very aggressive manor that simply caused more problems then it was worth for end users.
-
There is a HUGE difference between Pro and Home.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
I have been saying for a long time now that Windows 10 is not a usable platform for enterprise purposes. Microsoft’s direction is not in line with where enterprises need to be. I am pretty certain that the main reason why Win10 fails to take off is that a very large proportion of IT managers reject it. Win7 is/was the last good Windows there will ever be. It is a serious dilemna.
CT
-
Not just enterprise but also HOME use too. I’m super ticked off and annoyed with this updating and EOL brouhaha, and I know some people who have actually rolled *back* to Windows 7 because Windows 10 is more like a volatile young star fresh out of a nebula than a stable star like the sun. It’s a shame that my university has switched to Windows 10, and according to Tweets from my former high school, looks like they switched to Windows 10 as well. I don’t have any plans to work in IT but if I do, I sure don’t want to work for either institution… I don’t want to have to deal with Windows 10.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Win7 is/was the last good Windows there will ever be. It is a serious dilemna.
Actually, with a few doable tweaks I’d consider Windows 8.1 the last good Windows, and it’ll be supported for some years yet.
-Noel
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
I went from working for a company with a Win10 Enterprise environment behind WSUS/SCCM to a Win7 Pro environment behind WSUS (and spinning up a SCCM environment). 2 of the largest companies in St. Louis.
I don’t have any visibility into my current employer’s patching/imaging like I did with the previous company, but I know they’re at least testing Win10. I don’t see Win10 Pro being rolled out here, and I would imagine that’s something the financial executives are not happy about.
Win10 Pro is a complete and utter sham. At this point, the only thing Pro has over Home is slightly more control over updates, and the ability to join a domain. I would imagine they’ll continue stripping away functionality in Pro, making Pro more like Home (or, Semi-Pro, as Cybertooth said above). The Pro sku is a shell of its former self. I would not be surprised if the last and only benefit of Pro by the time 1809 or 1903 comes out is the domain join, and that’s it.
MS is basically abandoning the desktop OS at this point, and the shareholders are completely oblivious. “Babylon the Great is falling…”
5 users thanked author for this post.
-
Shareholders as a group are being told by Wall Street analysts that MS is going gang busters with Azure and AI. In reality, Wall Street has a lot of companies they would like to put in play for sale to deep pocketed companies like MS and will not jeopardize potentially large M&A fees with negative comments about something like desktop Windows 10 strategy. Cloud and AI are the Zeitgeist and the humor is that many of the young commenters reveal an appalling ignorance as they extrapolate huge growth for cloud and AI. IMHO, everyone should plan to migrate to a different platform over time as this situation only gets worse.
-
Betting on the ‘cloud’ is a risky strategy because cloud based applications and services, if designed correctly, are OS agnostic. Linux users can use Office 365 as it only requires a browser and does not depend on OS features. So if you go cloudy the risk is many users realize they do not to have Windows and they ditch Windows completely.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
It only looks risky from the outside, using the assumption that Microsoft wants to keep pouring money into an operating system structure and maintenance.
Microsoft has already run the exact same decision matrix you lay out. Their result is clear. If alternative OSes are available for free, then there is no money to be had in that segment of the market. They are in the process of ditching all non Enterprise Windows right now, in real time, while we read and write about the impact here.
And they are utilizing all hooks and croziers available to push pull or drag anyone willing to pay a premium price for a working OS to Enterprise. It continues to astonish them that anyone is still hanging on to such outdated OSes.
So I guess I’m saying Microsoft agrees with your opinion entirely. I hope that hasn’t come as a surprise to you.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Linux users can use Office 365 as it only requires a browser and does not depend on OS features.
One of my customers has Office 365 Business Premium edition. They set me up with an account on their system so I can support it. It works very well on my Linux Mint machine when I access it with the Opera browser.
Of course I haven’t installed it in Linux Mint, because that wouldn’t work. But I’m sure it will work very well if I install it in my Windows 8.1 virtual machine.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
-
I have never used WinX. Your rant has illuminated me in terms of what Microsoft is doing with WinX, and with complete disregard to what both enterprise and consumers alike actually desire in terms of an operating system for their computers. The way I see it, Microsoft truly is the next Chrysler since Nadella is literally directing Microsoft to become the next Chrysler, and nobody is stopping him. Nadella of course could not do this if the same type of slimy corporate infrastructure as within Chrysler was already in place. It is what it is. It is playing out. And at this point, it will inexorably play out since those who have been given pink slips in terms of Windows, are gone and they sure has h*** will never return to Microsoft.
This is a great analogy. Despite all of the current Chrysler slick advertising, after my family’s experiences we would never buy another (remember the Dodge Aspen, a/k/a Ashcan, etc.) Nope, I do not believe in the ‘just give them another try’ philosophy when it comes to Corporations. The bad genes just run too deep.
I am positive MS has some great employees and minds, but they will get isolated and slowly wither and die in MS and move on to better enviroments. I have seen this in action. There will be brief spasms of innovation and quality, but it will be brief, and then it is business as usual. It is the Hubris of Monopoly and dominant market share.
-
-
I don’t think the dead end conclusion is limited to the Pro SKU. The LTS(B/C) branch with no support for newer hardware introduced after release date is equally useless for enterprise purposes.
For Enterprise purposes? Well, maybe.
As far as I am concerned, the statement “no support for newer hardware” is meaningless and will be ignored. For example, the LTSB 2015 and LTSB 2016, released before the release of Ryzen, is working fine with my Ryzen system (X370 motherboard and Ryzen 5 1600X). (It is the only system with Windows 10 installed in my possession, though. All others are either running Windows 7 / 8.1 or MacOS.)
Microsoft also said that Windows 7 and 8.1 will not be supported on “newer hardware” such as Ryzen (or rather, that “newer hardware” will only be supported on Windows 10), but I am able to run them on my Ryzen system and as far as I can see they work great on the system.
Personally I no longer care what Microsoft said about “support” at this point.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
The greatest risk for Microsoft is to run out of beta users as maybe more and more home and small users will buy Macs. Berkshire bought shares not long ago. Or maybe Chromebooks.
For Linux to reach the same potential as a desktop platform, it would need leadership from a group of corporation that would finance things that are actually more important vs fun to code on the desktop level. There are good efforts, but the problem with Linux is that disagreement ends up with a new fork that will likely die later. Good minds with lots of great ideas, scattered around. They need a committed effort to make Linux a platform of choice for SMB and home computing. How come the Mac have Office and not Linux? We’re not there yet.
-
The greatest risk for Microsoft is to run out of beta users as maybe more and more home and small users will buy Macs.
The evidence about what you call “beta testers” point in a different direction.
While Macs are a great solution, the hardware is still expensive for a lot of potential users.
A middle of the road solution would be the iPhone/iPad range, but a lot of people opted for the Google equivalent based on price and after the fact some started complaining about quality and other issues like security which is by far inferior to the Apple products.1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Sure, price is is an issue and many small businesses might also not realize the hidden costs of unprofessionally managed Windows 10 vs a Mac. Even large organizations like IBM realized that they saved a lot of money ditching Windows for Mac due to a much lower total cost of operating (not me, saying) when it is possible (and this is key). For many, it might not even be an option or the best option might clearly be to stay with Windows but Enteprise and with the right people to manage it.
What about Chromebooks down the road? I don’t know about them. For now, if they don’t run Office, they’re out and anyway for me they’re out for other reasons, but they might not be to many people. Woody seems to enjoy it and if conviviality, reliability and security is there, there’s only privacy and the app ecosystem question to be answered.
I don’t think Iphone/Ipad will replace the desktop where a desktop is needed. Where it did is because a desktop was the best thing before they arrived but wasn’t really necessary. There is a whole different paradigm in the touch interface vs mouse and keyboard and each has its areas of productivity. Microsoft hasn’t been successful at demonstrating that touch/mouse UI could be merged successfully. I love my Ipad and I use it a lot, but it is a complement to the desktop, not a replacement.
I agree with you that many beta testers might be not be replaced mostly by Mac users. Those who held to desktop might have bought one Windows 10 newer computer, got bitten and might think about it twice next time before buying a new one and ask themselves if they would not be ok with just a tablet, at least for multi-computer household where one desktop might be enough. At least, anecdotally, this is what I hear a lot from folks around me.
But as an SMB that has been quite successful while running Windows without a domain for a very long time, I will tell you one thing: if I move from Windows and I had to choose right now, it would be to a Mac, no doubt about it for all Internet facing stations. For computers inside and with no Internet access, I will still run my mix of Windows 98 to even 10 off the grid until those machines die, but I will probably test Linux for some stations where it could work. I would of course prefer to continue running Windows if the direction was changed. And there is less of a chance of me leaving Windows than users who can’t deal with the issues when they arise.
For home users beta testers, I would think a lot of them might try something else at some point, keeping maybe one Windows desktop in the mix, but maybe I am completely wrong and people will continue to buy the latest Windows surface bling bling thing shown in ads because of the power of marketing. Only if those people are truly annoyed with their computer and they talk to other that had a better experience with something else will change occur on a larger scale. And power users might have an important role to play in this.
-
Chromebooks and Macs are already readily available to the public. Macs are a mature product and while pricing up front seem to have less problems done the road. Chromebooks are rapidly maturing and are built on Linux (I saw Gentoo Linux specifically). So depending what Google does they could be a full Linux desktop in the near future with support for Android apps. If an OEM decided to more aggressively push a Linux distro especially on low and mid range boxes it could take off.
The forking in the Linux community is both a blessing and curse. It allows for experimentation of various ideas. But it also causing fragmentation and confusion for outsiders who do not under the differences between even the various desktop environments.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I must add to AlexEiffel and lurks about comments my own, from the point of view of my own experience working mostly with engineers, scientists and people at the organizations that support their work with their products, such as the International Global Navigation Satellite Systems (GNSS) Service and, in particular, its Real Time Service, run under the seal of the International Association of Geodesy. They are a group of national laboratories and universities from around the world that make publicly available, for-free, in a coordinated fashion, data from GPS and other such positioning satellite systems, as well as precise orbits and clock corrections for the satellites of those systems, either off line or in real time. These data and products are needed to enable many scientific campaigns that require very precise positioning (to better than 0.5 to 2 inches, depending on application) of either fixed ground stations or of moving vehicles (aircraft, satellites, ships, etc.) with GNSS receivers on board. For example, NASA and its European Union’s counterpart ESA, use those products to find the orbits and, in particular, the height of satellites bearing altimeters for mapping the sea surface and monitor its, by now, accelerating rate of rise due to the progressive warming of the ocean water, that expands, and the addition of fresh water from the polar caps, as they melt.
All the people I know that are working on such projects use either Macs or LINUX machines. Windows? What is that?
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV3 users thanked author for this post.
-
In my view, the beta testers are the “Insiders”, not the home users.
The home users are the testers of the cloud concept, not of the traditional Windows which in its non-enterprise versions has ceased to exist.
I think a lot of posters here are still dreaming for a time which is almost past by computing history stadards.1 user thanked author for this post.
-
I was about to comment that I thought Windows “semi-annual channel” releases were more like betas, but then I got to thinking about having lived through the era of operating systems for PCs that wouldn’t hang together for a single day… I suppose we have it better than those bad ol’ days now, though there is no question Windows 10 has regressed as compared to a very mature Win 7 or 8.1 setup.
Thing is, Windows Vista (late), 7, and 8.1 actually got quite a bit better since those bad ol’days – to where the builds actually RELEASED were polished and stable, and the OSs after a few years of patching became quite solid indeed. Stability, quality… Just what one needs from an operating system in order to advance the state of the art in the things being developed while using the OS.
I’ve just worked for a solid month at unprecedented high levels of productivity on the most complex software I’ve ever engineered in my life. My Win 8.1 workstation? Not a glitch in over a month of continuous operation. Oh, wait, I did have to restart the print spooler once.
No, by recent OS quality standards, Windows 10 “semi-annual channel” is very much “beta” quality. Insiders are testing IMO “alpha” level software. I refuse to ratchet back my definitions or expectations.
And for what it’s worth, I test pre-release software for a number of different products, from large to small companies. To be as objective as I can be, the builds I test that are considered “beta” seem more integrated and are fitter for purpose than the early releases of Windows 10.
Windows v1709 (which I run in a VM) has JUST gotten to the state where I can immerse myself in it and be fairly productive (though no more so than with Win 8.1 if I’m being honest). It wasn’t really fit yet when it was promoted to “semi-annual targeted”, but just now, when its successor is released.
-Noel
5 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
I think a lot of posters here are still dreaming for a time which is almost past by computing history stadards.
Not really in computing history standards… the idea of distributing computing done at the client-end is not a thing of the past. It’s merely inconvenient for a company that elected a cloud guy as CEO and who, having only a hammer, now sees every problem as a nail. Distributed computing won’t pass because it’s still better than what preceded it, and what Microsoft is trying to have follow it. Marketers love something new to sell as the latest and greatest, and it doesn’t matter to them if it’s actually the oldest and worst– what matters is if they can convince enough people to turn a quick buck before they catch on.
The time that’s passing as we sit here and discuss is the one where Windows consumers had a seat at the table, and were considered valuable to Microsoft. It’s evident that we’re not anymore, and it has been ever since the cloud guy took over at MS. I think the days of Windows as a general-purpose OS even at the enterprise level may be numbered too, with the plan being to turn Windows into a minimalist thin-client style front-end for MS cloud services– there’s no better lock-in than having all of your data on their servers and all of your computing done by their CPUs. Migrate away from “Windows” (it may or may not be called that anymore, but it won’t be Windows as we know it) if you want, enterprise customers, so long as you keep your data in the clouds of Azure.
With the strategy of squeezing consumers for cash until they can’t take anymore becoming more evident by the day, it still seems a little… well, odd, how much of the feature updates are based on silly consumer-level features that no one, enterprise or otherwise, was really asking for. While enterprise has been spared much of the Windows 10 tomfoolery, the ridiculous update schedule is still giving them fits. Perhaps the extension of the support period for their real customers to 2 years will be made permanent, then extended again, then again, while leaving the consumers to be monetized by the updates on the old, 1.5 year at longest support interval. I wonder that the consumer focus MS is showing with things like gaming mode and what not isn’t just a ruse to get consumers on-board with 10 so they can begin the long goodbye of being monetized to the breaking point.
Linux, of course, will be waiting. I’ve already started testing the waters of gaming in Linux, and while it’s not up to Windows standards (most games that have PC and Linux versions have better performance in Windows), it’s at least a real thing. If our predictions here about the eventual demise of Windows for consumers hold true, the gamers will have to go somewhere, and the restricted hardware world of the Mac doesn’t seem like a good fit with PC gamers, who want to be able to choose every component in their “rigs” as they like to call them. I suppose we will all find out in time.
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)8 users thanked author for this post.
-
With all the worries, these days, about large databases online being hacked or, potentially, hackable, and the consequent concerns, close to paranoia, of governments and corporations about the security of their data, I have some difficulty seeing just how going All-Cloud all the time will help MS keep its big Enterprise customers happy, willing to remain its customers in anything like their present numbers, so it can continue to profit greatly (to keep also its own shareholders happy) from its business with them. Which might give its shareholders something to think about with, in turn, negative impacts when it comes to the bonuses and even tenures of the top managers at MS. Wishful thinking?
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
-
-
@ch100: I think you are onto somethings there.
During the past week I had a 2 routine annual doctor visits, one new Doctor and one an existing Doctor. Both used iPads exclusively when with patients including to take photos.
I had to drive a friend for tests at his hospital, and again, Nurses and Doctors all with iPads. The only computers I saw were in the admin or billing sections.
I have totally stopped using my laptop on any short (less than a week) trips. They have been replaced by iPad Pro and iPhone. For me the down side is seeing just how much stuff Firefoz and AdBlocker Ultimate and HTTPS Everywhere really block. Safari is full of ads.
You other post about a time almost past is most likely valid. However I will still stick to my desktop for serious work.
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
The greatest risk for Microsoft is to run out of beta users as maybe more and more home and small users will buy Macs. … Or maybe Chromebooks.
…Your use of ‘beta’ is not unique, and is widely understood by the Windows using community. But a new thought occurred while reading these several comments. In the matrix of results tabulated by Microsoft’s best analytical AI, what value of success or failure is assigned to installation ID’s that suddenly stop contributing telemetry?
Do they adequately account for users that have consciously abandoned the Windows environment? Or are they simply on extended vacation? Because they have been so successful they can afford a year long tour of the globe.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
Lurks About at #195277 :
I would have thought the creators of the Ubuntu OS and its LINUX blood relatives, such as Mint, have been trying to behave more like the type of practical, users’-needs-come-first organizations you are wishing for. Do they still have a long way to go?
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
-
If you are interested in this, I suggest following Dedoimedo’s blog. He has a very down to earth business oriented philosophy regarding Linux’s readiness for the masses on the desktop, although himself is using Linux for scientific applications if I am not mistaken. According to him, there are high moments when it gets close to this ideal break point and then regressions seems to inevitably happen. He also happens to be quite funny. Recommended reading.
Right now, he is hopeful about the Plasma desktop and found the latest Ubuntu a disappointing release on the way to something different (because they dropped the Unity desktop and are in a transition).
-
AlexEiffel,
Thanks for pointing me to Dedoimedo’s blog. Great place, or so it looks like at first sight, to learn about various aspects of what I would call “LINUX for Everyman.” And he really likes Mint!
https://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-mint-tools.html
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Thanks for that recommendation. It looks facinating. I have already bookmarked the site on 4 OS’s, iOS, Windows, Ubuntu and Mint.
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
I second the endorsement of Dedoimedo: even if I don’t always agree with what he says, he is always interesting and entertaining to read.
One of the things on which I disagree with him is the Unity desktop in Ubuntu. To my mind, that was a me-too notion along similar lines to the touch-screen focus of Windows 8. Never cared for it, and I’m glad that they finally saw the light and got rid of it.
I also disagree with Dedoimedo that Linux isn’t ready for prime time. That was true for a long time, but IMO it’s now at the point where most serious users can get their work done in Linux and send it back and forth to Windows users without skipping a beat. My tests prior to transitioning to Linux suggested this, and the work I’ve finished since then hasn’t contradicted that impression.
Other than that, though, I like most everything he says, and I enjoy his take-no-prisoners approach.
5 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
What I think is needed is an OEM to partner long term with a distro, say Linux Mint or Ubuntu. In this partnership, the hardware is designed to work with the distro and the distro is gently nudged to better usability. Probably a couple OEM/distro packages are added to make working with the distro easier to use for regular folks.
I would say Linux is very close but needs someone to get over the final hump.
The other wildcard is ChromeOS and whether it evolves into a more conventional Linux distro with some added features like support for Android apps. That is another avenue for Linux to go mainstream but somewhat under the radar.
4 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
Dell sells several Ubuntu laptops, but they are quite expensive:
http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/scc/sc/laptops?~ck=mn&appliedRefinements=7692
Hopefully they will one day start selling their low-end laptops and low-end desktops with Ubuntu or some other distro of Linux.
They sell servers with Linux as the OS.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server -
-
-
-
-
-
Fine. Make Enterprise available in small quantities for what I used to spend on Windows Ultimate for major releases every three years or so. Or maybe license it for say $300 for the full life of a given machine.
Price it even higher if that’s what it takes to deliver a professional OS in small numbers to business users and not [push] them around. A small business may not need qty 5 licenses, or complicated licensing – just something that works right and supports serious use.
Edit: Moved from another thread where either I or the forum software mistakenly posted it.
-Noel
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
What I think is needed is an OEM to partner long term with a distro, say Linux Mint or Ubuntu. In this partnership, the hardware is designed to work with the distro and the distro is gently nudged to better usability. Probably a couple OEM/distro packages are added to make working with the distro easier to use for regular folks. I would say Linux is very close but needs someone to get over the final hump.
Dell already does this but it is TOO LIMITED. If Dell would support the XPS desktop that I have bought repeatedly since 1999 (back then called XPS Dimension), my new computer would probably be running Linux rather than Win 10 Pro. Dell supports the XPS 13 (and I think the 15 also) laptops for Linux but I don’t need or want a laptop. I hate what has happened to Windows although I was able to tame Windows 8.0 Pro to my liking (and I deliberately did not upgrade it to 8.1. It is still running in this hostile to electronics place where I live). When I got my XPS desktop with Win 8.0 Pro in November 2012, I considered the same computer in a laptop that Dell supported for Linux (Ubuntu) but I wanted and needed a desktop. Five years later and I was faced with the same problem of Dell supporting only a few laptops for Linux.
Plus, there are the practical issues that have nothing to do with an OEM partnering with Linux (in a larger manner than Dell already has done) such as problems with video card drivers and an nVidia card is a must for me.
I keep thinking that this current Windows 10 Pro computer is probably my last computer as Microsoft can push me almost to the b***** end but I will refuse to jump off the cliff with the remaining non-Enterprise computer users. Lemming I am not and the time is fast approaching when non Enterprise Windows users will be expected to blindly follow over the edge. I actually like Windows 10 (so far) and haven’t experienced ads or Candy Crush returning, etc and in one major way (for me) it is superior to Windows 8. The huge bugaboo is Microsoft taking away (or trying very hard to do so) my control of Windows updates. I’ve only had this computer since December and am already worn out over the almost constant struggle/worry to retain some control over Windows updates and I face years more of this time consuming stress that will likely lead to my being glad to walk away from personal computers.
Thank goodness for this site and everyone in Woody’s community!
3 users thanked author for this post.
-
Plus, there are the practical issues that have nothing to do with an OEM partnering with Linux (in a larger manner than Dell already has done) such as problems with video card drivers and an nVidia card is a must for me.
Nvidia has previously earned Linus Torvalds’ ire, but they seem to be moving forward with Linux… Nvidia Optimus (as Prime in Linux) now has Prime Sync, allowing seamless, tearing-free performance that was never possible before. G-Sync also works in Linux with their Nvidia drivers.
I do wish Nvidia would release the technical data on all of their non-current-generation GPUs at the very least, so that the Nouveau driver guys can at least get the things like dynamic clocking power management to work with the open drivers.
My test and desktop PCs both use Nvidia, as does the laptop I am using now (discrete MXM II card, flipped over in the way Asus used to do), and the Dell gaming laptop I bought and returned did too. When ATI/AMD chose to cut off my HD3650 from Linux and Windows driver updates many years ago, Nvidia didn’t with their cards of similar vintage, like the GT220M in my laptop right now. With the ATI/AMD, I was stuck with the terrible performance of the open-source driver, but not with Nvidia.
That isn’t something I am likely to forget.
Still, I am not a Nvidia loyalist. AMD has done a lot for the open-source community on their newer hardware, which allows the open drivers to now match or exceed the performance, as I understand, of the now-discontinued proprietary Linux drivers. That being the case, I might consider AMD for new Linux builds, but I also like to stick with what I know works. I could go either way.
My Dell laptop has no discrete GPU, as you would expect from such a low-end machine (Chromebook specs across the board, though it came with Windows). Intel, as far as I know, was the first to make the concept of proprietary vs. open-source drivers obsolete by making their data available to the open-source community and working with them on the drivers themselves, and AMD has followed suit.
Nvidia… come on now! Join us!
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)
-
-
Cybertooth wrote:
“That was true for a long time, but IMO it’s now at the point where most serious users can get their work done in Linux and send it back and forth to Windows users without skipping a beat. My tests prior to transitioning to Linux suggested this, and the work I’ve finished since then hasn’t contradicted that impression.”
Wow! This is great to know! Windows might be in serious trouble with serious users, but it remains the preeminent OS and to be able to communicate effectively and work with people that run Windows in their computers is still very useful and, for some, even necessary.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
-
There is one big difference between home and pro. That would be AD support.
Regarding the need for other options such as Linux, I’m going to throw this out there and if it happens I think I should get part of the revenue.
A number have mentioned that the only real reason home users still use Windows is to play pc games. I’ve always been a pc gamer and that’s actually how I found my calling and changed careers into the computer field. It was a challenge back in the DOS days to get games to run and I enjoyed that. I bought a Nintendo Switch this past Christmas and I haven’t played a computer game since.
Nintendo hit a home run with their independently hand held motion sensitive controllers. They should throw in a web browser on the Switch and a wireless keyboard option and they could have a real opportunity to get an even bigger piece of the home market.
Hey Nintendo! Call me! (holding my thumb and pinkie up to the side of my head)
Red Ruffnsore
-
-
A number have mentioned that the only real reason home users still use Windows is to play pc games.
I think that goes hand-in-hand with the belief that the only reason home users use PC-form computers (as opposed to phones or tablets) is for gaming. It’s certainly true for some, but I can’t imagine going all day, every day, without using a real PC in my personal life (since we’re talking about home users).
I do have an Android tablet, one that is old and obsolete by now, but still a good deal newer than my still-useful Core 2 Duo laptop. It was abandoned by Samsung almost as soon as I bought it, only receiving two updates over its entire life from box to EOL, and that certainly is part of what soured me on Android even more than I already was from the Google data slurping.
On top of that, though, I just found it impossibly annoying to use compared to a real PC. Sure, the display had enough resolution to put just as much on-screen as my laptop– if I am willing to use an electron microscope to try to read the text, I may actually do that. Otherwise, scaling the text to a reasonable size for my “not a spring chicken” eyes, I run into all kinds of issues where the small screen size is a real impediment. And that’s with a tablet screen (a small tablet at 7 inches, but still larger than a phone)!
Trying to type more than a few words is annoying with the tiny onscreen keyboard. I see people complaining about the poor quality (poor feel due to short key travel being a key one) of a lot of laptop keyboards, justifiably, but every one of them is far, far better than trying to type on a touchscreen, and the smaller that touchscreen, the worse it is. A phone, with its tiny screen? How can people ever think that could replace a PC?
Maybe if I had one for a while, I would learn how to post short messages. I’m just too empowered by a decent keyboard (my Core 2 Duo laptop has what used to be an average keyboard, but in today’s terms, its keyboard is positively spectacular) and a biggish screen!
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)3 users thanked author for this post.
-
How can people ever think that could replace a PC?
It can’t and never will, until it gets to be so brilliant it can read your mind.
We’re expected to buy into mobile tech, then when the world finally realizes there are needs for real computers with real keyboards and big screens, we’re expected to buy back into that.
-Noel
-
And don’t forget the mouse!
I use a stupid little android tablet for my daily mail check-ups, reading the forums I follow and it’s perfectly fine for my AskWoody spamming!
But every time I power up the pc for *work*, I’m instantly reminded of how much I love – and miss – using the mouse! Quick and ultra-precise, a true pleasure to work with.
So yes, big screen, keyboard and mouse. And a stable, uninterrupted, stay-in-the-background-wasting-none-of-my-precious-time OS, please.
-
-
Ascaris – I definitely didn’t write that sentence the way it was intended. I meant to say “a lot” of home users and not generalize to mean all home users.
From a pc gaming perspective I will elaborate on my thinking here. I spend a lot of time everyday at work sitting at a desk and when I get home I’m really no longer interested in sitting at another desk. There’s no doubt nothing compares to a high end pc or laptop designed for gaming. Before the Switch came out I never liked consoles much because of the console controllers. and The only thing I thought they were good for is platform games.
When I come home now I can sit and relax on my couch. I have my Switch sitting on a table next to me and I have an hdmi cable running from the switch across the room connected to my entertainment center connected to a surround sound system and a 55″ Panasonic plasma display. The controllers are what really make the difference here. I can hold each controller separately in each hand and have my hands down on an arm rest or down by my side and still enjoy a gaming experience. A heck of a lot more comfortable than sitting at another desk for additional hours.
I’m getting to be an old man and my needs change over time as happens with all of us. For many this may not be a realistic option. But I do see a market opportunity here. And with smart phones, tablets there are options and for some a pc may not be needed anymore.
Wayne and Garth agree. “It could happen…..”
Red Ruffnsore
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
IMO, I have a perspective on mobile vs desktop hardware and therefore software different than most other people. The first time that I tried using an iPhone and an iPad, I found them difficult to use with the touchscreen. I sort of knew part of the answer but not the whole answer. After two or three years, I realized that my physiology is 0 for 3 on the factors that make using a touch screen productive:
1. Dealing with a touchscreen requires fine motor skills. I was born without good fine motor skills and that has never improved. In fourth grade, one of my grade cards had written on it “Jonathan needs to improve his fine motor skills.” I had been building model planes and ships since I was in first or second grade and had glue everywhere on the models and the decals never ended in the correct places.
2. The touchscreen also prefers skinny fingertips. OTOH, my fingertips are well rounded. I have watched enough people to know that some people with stubby fingers must have very good fine motor skills because they have far fewer problems than I have.
3.Touchscreens require the correct skin capacitance, which is dependent on the moisture in ones fingertips. Shortly after learning this last lesson, I stopped into a mobile phone store, tried an iPhone and still had problems. Then I tried a Windows Lumia 600 series and a Windows Lumia 500 series phone. My fingers worked perfectly with them. My fingertips work just fine with the Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga S1 (first generation) Windows 2-in-1 on which I am writing this message. I conclude, therefore, that Apple’s specs are tighter (probably cheaper) than Microsoft’s specs. Finally, my smartphone is still a BlackBerry Q10 and from the above you can understand why. I would have preferred to buy a Lumia 900 series to replace the Q10 but it was too expensive and I am still waiting.
For me a keyboard and mouse are required in order to be at least minimally productive.
While my situation is extreme, keyboard and mouse are, for most people, more productive than touchscreens, though I see some people who are productive with a smartphone. I also see some people who struggle and others who still have flip-phones with physical keyboards. This is all understandable.
I loved Windows 8.1. I was so frustrated with the Windows 10 upgrade cycle after 2 years that I upgraded to Windows 10 Home to Windows 10 Pro. I recently asked someone at Microsoft about the cut-over point between Office 365 for Business and Office 365 for Enterprises (E3 or E5). He reminded me that, from a licensing point of view, 300 licenses is the cut-over point. However, in practice Microsoft has data that seems to average out the cut-over occurs below 100 licenses, at 77 licenses IIRC.
I have had several conversations with Microsoft about small businesses because I am a specialized VAR/MSP that mostly is selling to small businesses. A few months ago, the last time that I asked the question, I was told that Microsoft wants to grow its penetration in small businesses. From my experience, that makes sense to me. Gartner really is for enterprises and a lot of people in the SMB world are former enterprise employees and now SMB owners or employees. From Gartner’s perspective, I understand trashing Pro. From an SMB experience, I see the value of Pro and believe that it will always be there. There are many product categories where there are small, medium and large subcategories.
Jonathan
2 users thanked author for this post.
-
-
-
And, if by chance, you are using now or looking forward to using one day Google’s Chrome and those Chromium laptops because they make you feel safer…
https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-dont-be-evil-from-1826153393
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
Note: I need to apologize for originally posting this without logging in through a different browser and showing up as Anonymous. Signed Jonathan Handler.
To: Oscar CP
Thank you for posting your message. I felt that Google moved away from this a long time ago.
I do not trust any organization in information technology. That said, the companies I “trust” the most, on a relative basis, are IBM and Microsoft. The reason for that is that both of them have been convicted of abusing their monopolies (maybe its slightly different than that but this wording is what I use in my own mind) by the government. They are therefore, at least, more easily convicted of other economic crimes in the future.
I am still waiting for Google, Facebook and Apple to be penalized at least as much before I “trust” them as much as I “trust” IBM and Microsoft.
1 user thanked author for this post.
-
-
Viewing 12 reply threads - This topic has 73 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 10 months ago by
Plus Membership
Donations from Plus members keep this site going. You can identify the people who support AskWoody by the Plus badge on their avatars.
AskWoody Plus members not only get access to all of the contents of this site -- including Susan Bradley's frequently updated Patch Watch listing -- they also receive weekly AskWoody Plus Newsletters (formerly Windows Secrets Newsletter) and AskWoody Plus Alerts, emails when there are important breaking developments.
Get Plus!
Recent Topics
-
Digital TV Antenna Recommendation
by 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
-
Server 2019 Domain Controllers broken by updates
by 6 hours, 46 minutes ago
-
Google won’t remove 3rd party cookies in Chrome as promised
by 8 hours, 25 minutes ago
-
Microsoft Manager Says macOS Is Better Than Windows 11
by 11 hours, 37 minutes ago
-
Outlook (NEW) Getting really Pushy
by 55 minutes ago
-
Steps to take before updating to 24H2
by 2 hours, 28 minutes ago
-
Which Web browser is the most secure for 2025?
by 3 hours, 32 minutes ago
-
Replacing Skype
by 1 hour, 59 minutes ago
-
FileOptimizer — Over 90 tools working together to squish your files
by 5 hours, 29 minutes ago
-
Excel Macro — ask for filename to be saved
by 13 hours, 56 minutes ago
-
Trying to backup Win 10 computer to iCloud
by 6 hours, 24 minutes ago
-
Windows 11 Insider Preview build 26200.5570 released to DEV
by 2 days, 11 hours ago
-
Windows 11 Insider Preview build 26120.3941 (24H2) released to BETA
by 2 days, 13 hours ago
-
Windows 11 Insider Preview Build 22635.5305 (23H2) released to BETA
by 2 days, 13 hours ago
-
No April cumulative update for Win 11 23H2?
by 1 day, 1 hour ago
-
AugLoop.All (TEST Augmentation Loop MSIT)
by 2 days, 13 hours ago
-
Boot Sequence for Dell Optiplex 7070 Tower
by 3 days, 4 hours ago
-
OTT Upgrade Windows 11 to 24H2 on Unsupported Hardware
by 3 days, 8 hours ago
-
Inetpub can be tricked
by 1 day, 15 hours ago
-
How merge Outlook 2016 .pst file w/into newly created Outlook 2024 install .pst?
by 2 days, 2 hours ago
-
FBI 2024 Internet Crime Report
by 3 days, 12 hours ago
-
Perplexity CEO says its browser will track everything users do online
by 21 hours, 23 minutes ago
-
Login issues with Windows Hello
by 3 days, 23 hours ago
-
How to get into a manual setup screen in 2024 Outlook classic?
by 3 days, 11 hours ago
-
Linux : ARMO rootkit “Curing”
by 4 days, 10 hours ago
-
Employee monitoring app leaks 21 million screenshots in real time
by 4 days, 11 hours ago
-
Google AI is now hallucinating idioms
by 4 days, 11 hours ago
-
april update
by 2 days, 15 hours ago
-
Windows 11 Insider Preview build 27842 released to Canary
by 4 days, 12 hours ago
-
Quick Fix for Slowing File Explorer
by 4 days, 12 hours ago
Remembering Woody
