Kaspersky and Ukraine

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I have been using Kaspersky Internet Security on our home computers for about 3 years and am very pleased with the product.  The russian/Kaspersky “spy scandal” of a few years ago does not bother in the least as I am home user of the product. What does worry me now is the following quite possible scenario.

If Russia invades Ukraine and NATO responds with sanctions on Russia and military aid to Ukraine, should Kaspersky users in Europe and North America be concerned about using Kaspersky products?  It worries me that I would be using a computer security product from a company headquartered in a country we could be technically at war with.

There is also the potential problem that Kaspersky products will not be available for purchase in NATO countries in the near future due to sanctions on Russia.

What do others think about these issues?

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GDR

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BobK, I cannot recommend anything with certainty, because, these days, nobody knows what is going to happen in the larger world arena any day now, let alone in the little Kapersky’s one.

I m not even sure that we are technically at war with anyone, at least right now. The USA government is rallying its allies in Europe and with their help, is making moves to hurt the people in Putin’s circle until they (supposedly) cry “uncle” (Sam), but who can tell if that will happen?

There may be cyber attacks with refined, military-grade tools, but no reason why they should be directed against the little guy, when the computer networks that control infrastructure facilities, such as water distribution systems and water treatment plants, nuclear power stations and electrical grids, also the big data caches “in the Cloud” with our personal info. in them (whether we put it there or not), military computer systems, etc. are much more practical things to go after for greatest damage with the least exposure, and greatest gain, including monetary one. Except that, if bad enough and traced back to Putin and Co. those shall, yes, quite likely be deemed acts of war. And then good luck and goodby.

In any case, and for whatever good this might do, these days I would stay off anything coming from East of the Urals, all the way to the Pacific coast of the Kamchatka Peninsula. Probably not really necessary but then again …

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Moscow is west of the Urals

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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samak: I see, I see … Good point!

Then East and North of not-Russia, OK?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I wouldn’t worry about Kaspersky doing anything bad, it would destroy their reputation and their company. Also, supplying some military aid and imposing sanctions doesn’t amount to being “technically at war” IMO.

So the biggest threat appears to be if you couldn’t purchase Kaspersky products in the future due to NATO sanctions. It might be worth thinking about what you would do if they were no longer available, but again I wouldn’t be too concerned.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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Alex5723

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samak: “I wouldn’t worry about Kaspersky doing anything bad”

Unless it is forced to. Then, too bad for Kapersky, no?

As I already said, in my opinion, right now no one knows what to expect.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I wouldn’t worry about Kaspersky doing anything bad, it would destroy their reputation and their company.  – samak

Hi samak

My wife is more worried about this than I am. She says many of the top tech people at Kaspersky are Russians trained in cyber security by the Russian government. Shouldn’t we expect some of them to be more concerned with being patriotic Russians than the reputation of Kaspersky. She thinks it’s possible that  cyber attacks on big targets could come by way of installed Kaspersky software on little targets.

Right now I believe my wife is being a little paranoid, but I’m going to take KIS off her computer this weekend. On my two computers I am going to wait a while, but Bitdefender and Windows Defender are looking better and better. BTW, I don’t share my better half’s concern that attacks on Nato infrastructure will come through Kaspersky.

But It does look to me like we are now entering the world of 21st Century warfare consisting of sanctions, export controls, and cyber attacks.

 

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Sounds like a good plan to remove KIS. The potential problem doesn’t arise then and peace and tranquility can once more descend on the BobK household 🙂

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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Hi,

Your wife is wrong. Most of the top people at Kaspersky are university educated and have family connections to the Ukraine. Eugene Kaspersky himself has Ukranian family. I know this as I used to work there and still have many friends there.

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Family Ties Between Russia and Ukraine Hasn’t stopped the  Putin’s Russians murdering Ukrainians in their own land.   I have deleted Kaspersky.

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?: “Hasn’t stopped the Putin’s Russians murdering Ukrainians ”

That is something I have been trying to understand.

I just listened to an interview on NPR of a Colonel who had participated, earlier on, in the training of the Ukrainian troops to bring them around to adopting modern warfare practices and discarding their antiquated Soviet-days ways of fighting, on his thoughts about the why of the poor performance of the Russian troops, and also on what was the reason for the apparently unmotivated war crimes they have committed and have been discovered as these troops retreated from places taken during the recent fighting.

The answer was an interesting one: the Colonel thought one of the main reasons for the poor performance was the antiquated, Soviet-era doctrines of centralized command, that gave little freedom to the commanders in the field to decide what to do in a difficult and urgent situation. And that, along with this, the war crimes were also the result of poor training, generally, resulting in less competent, poorly disciplined soldiers who, besides, were not clear as to what their fighting final objective was, resulting also in poor morale.

He ended by saying: “This is why warm crimes happen” — referring to the fact, as already pointed out by him, that this is a likely outcome when poor disciplined, demoralized soldiers, finally have in their hands those they fought against and who, while fighting back, badly hurt or killed their buddies.

Now the relevance of all this to using the AV of Kaspersky is not directly about how safe or otherwise it might be to defend oneselves against malware by using this company’s software, but more about punishing anyone in Russia who is in any way actually, or likely, or potentially, implicated in being helpful to Putin in carrying out those horrendous crimes.

I have already written here explaining why I think is best not to use software from a Russian company, but now have some reservations about this other idea of not using something made in Russia by someone there, because that means prejudging people without actual evidence that they have done something wrong.

And this judgemental way of thinking can make the new Iron Curtain more impenetrable to the necessary exchanges on scientific and artistic matters that were allowed even during the coldest parts of the Cold War, because they made so much sense that overrode the mutual dislikes and suspicions held on both sides of it.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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BobK: “But It does look to me like we are now entering the world of 21st Century warfare consisting of sanctions, export controls, and cyber attacks.”

I think you have a rather nice idea of warfare; too nice, maybe?

Having lived through most of a century of horrendous wars were tens of millions suffered and died in really nasty ways, I can assure you we are nowhere near anything like it. Yet. Which does not mean that everything is really nice either. Or going to improve.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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watching this discussion – I think OH and I will jump ships from Kaspersky – waiting until there is a possibility of some cyber attack happening or western Governments preventing citizens using Russian products/updating their Russian like Kaspersky is already too late.  If nothing untoward happens with Kaspersky on little users PCs all well and good, but if it did then at least we’re not exposed by continuing to use Kaspersky.  Shame as we only paid out a few months ago for a new subscription, but I’d rather be safe than sorry.   Better whilst there is time and things are  on even keel to move over now or very, very soon, to another anti-virus software.

 

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GDR

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? wrote: “Better whilst there is time and things are on even keel”

Reading the news today, it looks like things are no longer on an even keel.

As when a new land war starts in Europe, even if intended originally as a limited one, such as this one we witness now is supposed to be, the fact is that no one ever has known where any European war may end and, in by now over a century, such wars have had the bad habit of spreading far and wide.

For example, across oceans.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I wrote about things being on an “even keel” before I’d heard the news of the Russian invasion, today, 24 February 2022….   Today, Russian’s actions make it I think essential that users of Kaspersky stop using it as soon as possible now IMO, but it is for each user to grapple with the risks as they see them.

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GDR

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 I think essential that users of Kaspersky stop using it as soon as possible now IMO

An don’t forget to change all passwords that were stored in the Kaspersky password manager!

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China and all devices you use.
Every device , car, PC.. you use either has been build in China or has Chinese components yet you don’t worry as much as using Kaspersky software.
I use Kaspersky for years and don’t see any reason to stop.

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klang

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Actually we do worry. I would not have bought my new Moto phone if I realized Motorola had sold off its phone division to China (Lenovo)

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Alex5723

After a year of carnage in the Ukraine do you now believe that it is appropriate to boycott Russian based/owned Kaspersky apps?

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wavy

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you missed out unlawful, inhumane and barbaric.
A truly sad anniversary to ponder
RIP to those who gave their lives for their country, and my heart goes out to those families affected, as I well up… not good

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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SueW

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

Alex5723

After a year of carnage in the Ukraine do you now believe that it is appropriate to boycott Russian based/owned Kaspersky apps?

Kaspersky isn’t owned by the Russian government and was never proved to send any data to Russia.

Kaspersky A/V doesn’t fight alongside Russia in Ukraine just like Microsoft Defender isn’t owned by the NSA (or maybe it is).

Yes, I continue to use Kaspersky as it still is the best A/V.
Kaspersky boycott is just a symptom of US paranoia.

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Boycotting all things Russian is a gesture of solidarity with Ukraine. A bit of personal sacrifice, if you like.

cheers, Paul

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wavy

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I understand “a gesture of solidarity”. I don’t see where the “personal sacrifice” is.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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Alex5723

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Dumping your preferred software product (and potentially spending money on a new one).

cheers, Paul

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wavy

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Hi all,

I’m a Scot living in Cambridge U.K.

Just to add to this discussion.  After being a happy user of Kaspersky products for years, I have removed all Kaspersky products from my home devices first on the basis that it is my own protest against Russia’s actions and second, it is unlikely but they could be weaponised, particularly if the situation deteriorates.

I have installed Bitdefender which is a product of Romania, a NATO country.  You can try it out for a month, free, without providing credit card details.  From the reviews I have read it seems a decent alternative.

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this is really the point: there is little most of us can do (I live in Brazil) to help Ukraine but I think ditching Kaspersky as a sign of protest is a worthwhile symbolic action.

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wavy, GDR

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? wrote: ” I have removed all Kaspersky products from my home devices first on the basis that it is my own protest against Russia’s actions and second, it is unlikely but they could be weaponised, particularly if the situation deteriorates.”

I agree on Kapersky being at risk of being turned into a “weaponized” risk to others. But as far as “Russia’s actions”, while the current ones are appalling, I ask everybody here to please keep in mind that there have been protests of thousands coming out on the streets of major Russian cities against this blitzkreig Putin has launched in Ukraine, in spite of the severe repression in recent years and also very recently against any form of public dissent against the Putin regime, resulting in this latest case, as in previous ones, in hundreds of arrests.

Putin and his circle might consist of one sociopath surrounded by opportunistic bootlickers that are very wealthy and know their great wealth and even freedom depends on staying in his good graces, but that is not Russia.

Russia is greater than what is being done in its name by a pariah regime, and so should we be.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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wavy

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Using Russian products/services don’t make any sense in current days… only if you really have to.

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Quite. I wonder how dependent on Russian-based companies and their services we really are here.

Kapersky is the one I have heard of. But in this, at least so far, relentlessly globalized world, I do wonder.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Whether US or Russian, or any other country, software can certainly be weaponized. The software doesn’t even have to have a built in backdoor to do this, just knowing the vulnerabilities that can be exploited can be all that is needed.

If anyone has an issue with using Kaspersky products, by all means, remove them. But I don’t think their products pose any greater risk than any other country’s software, including those from the US.

 

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At this point, the way things are, I am inclined to think that this is more a question of “knowing” rather than “thinking.”

I am also inclined to think that nobody here “knows” enough about what is happening and is going to happen to do more than “think.”

Which probably is not enough. But that is a judgement for each one to make by himself or herself.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Klang

After a year of Russian crimes against humanity in the Ukraine do you still support using  Russian based/owned Kaspersky apps?

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after 4 years, bye bye Kaspersky

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From Melbourne Australia, as my small contribution, I too have uninstalled Kaspersky and deleted my account with them.

Regards, Max.

 

 

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Same here… I’m in the UK, and have removed all of Kaspersky from my home computers, phones etc. Better safe than sorry! (Oh and deleted my online account with them also)

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Frankly, you would have to be either crazy or intelligent-on-the-spectrum to keep using Kaspersky. I’ve used it for almost 10 years but the moment Putin crossed into Ukraine, I removed it and switched to Norton. The naivity of some posts here is incredible. Kaspersky himself would be unable to defy Putin (Gooogle: Mikhail Khodorkovsky) and in times of conflict normal commercial priorities cease to apply. At the very least Putin’s actions have doomed Russia either to shared destruction or decades as a pariah state. Thinking that somehow you will still be able to buy your antimalware as normal from now on is beyond dumb. And even if Kaspersky (ignoring his and Putin’s past with the KGB) is somehow still able to play fair, why would you want to fund Russian product? A previous poster made a comment re. China. I couldn’t agree more – we should boycott both! The West has crazily been funding its avowed enemies for far too long. This is a wake-up call.

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OscarCP, Cybertooth

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anonymous wrote:

The naivity of some posts here is incredible.

That’s spelled ‘naivety ‘ but yes I mostly agree. The problem with China IS not just the trade imbalance but our retreat from local manufacturing loosing the physical and mental abilities and incentives to make our own stuff, be it phones or foot ware.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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I know how to spell, thank you; it was one of a few typos due to typing in haste (you missed my extra “o” in “Google” and my punctuation was weak). I am glad you agree despite the unnecessary pedantry.

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losing  <G>

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wavy: “The problem with China IS not just the trade imbalance but our retreat from local manufacturing loosing the physical and mental abilities and incentives to make our own stuff, be it phones or foot ware.”

Or to clothe our own people, something I am guessing is not just true here, in the USA.

Globalization, in my opinion, was not such a bad idea, but the way it was mostly implemented it worked out as a really huge scam that benefited the rich running big manufacturing and service companies, that exported their production and services to places where labor was a lot cheaper because wages were kept very low there and in some of those countries there were no trade unions allowed to fight for better pay and conditions.

It did some good, because some people could make a living picking up the manufacturing and service jobs previously made and available in the USA. But it produced a large mass of people in the USA, and I would guess in other countries too, who lost their jobs in the process and were left with serious resentments looking for outlets where to vent them, such as those, eventually, provided by the “social networks.”

So I think that, all things considered, the result has not been a very good one. And that this fact is starting to show more clearly now that the economy of the world has been seriously disrupted.

It is time, I think, for a very serious rethinking, particularly by those in a position to decide on how the world economy should be organized and run.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I have now removed KIS from all 4 of our computers – 2 desktops & 2 laptops. KIS replaced by Bitdefender on 2 and Windows Defender on the other 2. I also deleted at Kaspersky the My Kaspersky account associated with our computers.

I had the AdGuard extension on several browsers. AdGuard is HQ’d in Cyprus but was founded in Moscow and is headed by Russians. The extension is now gone and replaced with Ublock Origin. BTW several of the filter lists in UBO are AdGuard lists. I was careful not to include them.

 

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wavy wrote:

The problem with China IS not just the trade imbalance

The problem with Chinese hardware and software (you have bought a Chinese 5G Moto smartphone) is that China collects data and send it to servers in China…
China has also been found to install malware in new Android devices.

Wonder about the reaction of people here to China invading Taiwan.
Will they set fire to their cars, Android devices, all gadgets… that contain Chinese chips ?

Money to China is good, money to Russia is bad.

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Alex, I’m not clear about this:

Are you saying that it is the chips that send the information to China? I would expect it will be some software in a Chinese made device, that maybe will use a Chinese-made chip that, without this software, will be party to nothing of the sort. But what do I know.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021-supermicro/

In 2010, the U.S. Department of Defense found thousands of its computer servers sending military network data to China—the result of code hidden in chips that handled the machines’ startup process.

In 2014, Intel Corp. discovered that an elite Chinese hacking group breached its network through a single server that downloaded malware from a supplier’s update site.

And in 2015, the Federal Bureau of Investigation warned multiple companies that Chinese operatives had concealed an extra chip loaded with backdoor code in one manufacturer’s servers…

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OscarCP, Cybertooth

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Pure FUD.

From the same article

Bloomberg had assembled “a mishmash of disparate and inaccurate allegations” that “draws farfetched conclusions.” Federal agencies, including those described in this article as conducting investigations, still buy Supermicro products

cheers, Paul

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I expect to be in the market for a new smartphone soon. I will be looking for devices that are not made in China. For years I had gone back and forth over the question of whether to buy from China, but the Chinese government’s behavior with respect to the pandemic tipped the scales decisively against them in my book.

If it proves impossible to avoid buying from China, then as a temporary measure I may simply stay with the current phone (Galaxy S7) and hope that situation improves before the phone kicks the bucket.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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KIS has moved to SWISS, all the data and all that,

but headquarters are in Moscov

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Europe/EU/UK/USA will NOT get involved in a military capacity in this conflict as Ukraine is NOT a NATO country.

All NATO countries are getting ready to protect the borders of NATO countries that border Ukraine in case Putin decides to go further

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wavy wrote:

anonymous wrote:

The naivity of some posts here is incredible.

That’s spelled ‘naivety ‘ but yes I mostly agree. The problem with China IS not just the trade imbalance but our retreat from local manufacturing loosing the physical and mental abilities and incentives to make our own stuff, be it phones or foot ware.

That’s spelled ‘losing’

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OscarCP, wavy

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I’m also struggling with the question of should I stop using Kaspersky, but…

This had nothing to do with hacking, spying, cyber attacks, whose-side-are-you-on, is the sanctions by UK, EU, and USA going to include Kaspersky, etc., etc., and all the stuff like that.

It is really more a question of how do I feel about what the Russians are doing to Ukraine.

My thinking of stop paying Kaspersky, removing it, and replacing it with another brand, maybe Bitdefender or Norton, depending on reviews, is really about doing it like wanting to do my bit for Ukraine, as well as a show of support for Ukraine.

It’s a question of doing it with a clear conscience.

My thinking is that if I pay my yearly fee to Kaspersky, then as a Russian company, they would have to pay business taxes (like in UK, we have VAT), to their government, which in turn would fund their military.

The problem is: It had done well for my computer. If I remove it, and replace it with another brand, could it cause problems with my computer? More storage space taken up, not because of installing new brand, but also because uninstalling the old software does not always fully uninstall everything, there’s always some left over files. Plus time wasted, not on changing brands, but also needing to learning our way around the new brand, adjusting settings to suit our ways. Plus you need to rework on your budget, because your yearly subscription fees will now be of different costs and also due on different dates.

It’s about weighting up the pros and cons of stop using Kapsersky in support of Ukraine, or leave it on our computers, and hope the people working for Kapsersky are more of anti-Putin. Who knows, there would be some kind of a Russian equivalent of the “Arab Spring” during the 2010s, when the anti-Putin protests got too big and too hot.

My suggestions to the OP @BobK is: Forget about the sanctions or cyber warfare, just decide for yourself based on how do you feel about what the Russians are doing to Ukraine.

That’s what I’m thinking of, removing Kaspersky because of what Putin is doing to Ukraine, not because of sanctions of cyber attacks.

So, BobK, hope it helps you to make up your mind?

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I’ve been reading these responses and I think a measured response to the FUD is suggested. I had this waiting in my inbox this morning from the CEO. The tldr? They are committed to maintaining operational security of your services. They moved their core services out of Russian in response to accusations of installing malware. Servers are accredited with industrustry accepted methods and certifications with full audited transparency. Operations are maintained independently in regional areas.

I fully trust their product and integrity. I’ve researched my concerns on this years ago and are satisfied with their response to being a FSB stooge from back then. They maintain excellent service and most importantly, the catch the bad stuff. I’m comfortable with use of KES in all my clients and trust their product. Deleting and dumping Kaspersky products in a knee jerk is irrational and uninformed. Consider researching the issue at hand and make a valid judgement of keeping their product based on that. Not on Fox news or “what a friend told you”.

I’ve attached a copy of the email from their CEO.

Stay safe out there.

Moderator: Edited PDF to remove email addresses.

Geoff Miller, Head of the Herd
MadCow Technical Services

"We're outstanding in the field..."

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OneMadCow wrote:

Deleting and dumping Kaspersky products in a knee jerk is irrational and uninformed. Consider researching the issue at hand and make a valid judgement of keeping their product based on that.

Kaspersky is a Russian product and so the Russian government will benefit from tax and other receipts generated by the product. Eugene Kaspersky lives in Moscow and there are documented cases of Putin destroying oligarchs or having them comply with his wishes (I previously mentioned Khodorkovsky). Until he leaves the country, Kaspersky is in the same position. The question is: how bad would a situation have to be before Kaspersky knowingly destroys its reputation from assisting a cyberattack (and who better placed to launch one)? The next question is: what are the oligarchs doing to protect their lifestyles each time Putin plays poker with his nuclear arsenal (which he has now done twice)? The relocation of data centres and the supposed transparency is PR. The physical location of data centres is irrelevant in terms of how data and code can be transmitted to or from that centre. Data inspections are only as good as the quality of the inspectors and only stand a chance if inspection is constant. It would be easy for cutting edge hackers to avoid or circumvent detection by inspection.

What is irrational and uninformed is to think that: while Eastern Europe is riven with war; while the West is trashing Russia’s economy and sealing it within its own borders; while Russia is considering cutting all gas/energy supplies to Europe and raising the possibility of the use of US weapons; while tens of thousands of US servicemen are being flown to Europe; while the UN is investigating Putin for war crimes based on his illegal use of cluster bombs on civilians; while world peace is being endangered by the west not leaving mad-dog Putin any credible exit strategy, etc. etc. some people still think that yesterday’s rules apply and that they can cash in their 10% discount voucher for Kaspersky, and that Kaspersky will in all circumstances follow business-as-usual commercial rules. It is irrational not to take any precaution, but the only time you will know this is when it is too late. Above and beyond which, I don’t want one cent of my money in any way going to an aggressor state; but that sort of ‘irrational’ observation is more a question of conscience. Keep your head six feet deep in the sand.

 

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wavy, OscarCP

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Correction. It is the International Criminal Court opening an investigation into war crimes in the UK, not the UN.

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Thank you for illustrating my point with zero points to rebut what I said.

Geoff Miller, Head of the Herd
MadCow Technical Services

"We're outstanding in the field..."

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?: Great points! Couldn’t agree more. But about “while Russia is considering cutting all gas/energy supplies to Europe and raising the possibility of the use of US weapons “, well, maybe there is a typo in there?

And because of the ordering of the words can be confusing, perhaps it should be made clear that the ICC is investigating in the UK war crimes during the current Putin blizkrieg, not crimes in the UK, or so I hope. We have enough of those crimes already, no need for the Brits to lend a hand with making more of them.

And is Kapersky an oligarch? Really, I have no idea.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Blitzkrieg from Blitz ‘lightning’ + Krieg ‘war’) is a military doctrine in which a surprise attack using a rapid, overwhelming force concentration

Hardly what we are seeing.

OscarCP wrote:

And is Kapersky an oligarch? Really, I have no idea.

Then don’t comment?

Kaspersky was ranked #1,567 on Forbes‘ “Billionaires List 2017″

cheers, Paul

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OscarCP

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Apologies for yet another typo (I meant “nuclear” not “US” weapons) and for my dumb abbreviation of Ukraine to UK.

As for the other reply, I will repeat my opening statement: you would have to be crazy or intelligent-on-the-spectrum to keep using Kaspersky. I truly, genuinely hope that you (and all other Kaspersky users) don’t find out the error of your ways the hard way but nevertheless will fault you for purchasing Russian product; presumably you follow your own personal moral code that rationally and intellectually dismisses war and its consequences provided it doesn’t interfere with your shopping choices – like the guy left bitching for a refund because his holiday in Moscow just got cancelled.  Give my regards to your family.

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Uzekamanzi, OscarCP

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(1) Clearly not all blitzkreigs go as planned, and the Ukrainians are not fighting back as the desperate Poles did when their country was invaded, near the start of WW II, sending actual horse-riding cavalry against a mechanized one (Hitler’s heavy machine-gun carrying armored cars then, Putin’s tanks now):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charge_at_Krojanty

(2) Sorry that you cannot tell a simple question from a comment.

Cheers, Oscar

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Kaspersky made a statement Monday, 2-28-22 regarding their stance on the invasion of Ukraine.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/dyp5qj/eugene-kaspersky-neutral-ukraine-war-russia

 

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Yeah, I saw the original tweet – and you should see how the public has responded to it. It’s not pretty…

https://twitter.com/e_kaspersky/status/1498547339002368004

 

 

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Kaspersky neutral stance in doubt as it shields Kremlin

Kaspersky Lab is protecting the resources of the Russian Ministry of Defence and other high-value domains that are instrumental to the Russian propaganda machine – Russia Today, TASS news agency, Gazprom bank.

The company insists that they ‘never provide any law enforcement or government organization with access to user data or the company’s infrastructure.”

Attempt to stay neutral

Eugene Kaspersky’s refusal to condemn the Kremlin for its invasion of Ukraine set the cybersecurity community on fire. His company has tried to shake ties to the Russian government for years but hasn’t succeeded quite yet. And recent events, it seems, only made things worse.

“We welcome the start of negotiations to resolve the current situation in Ukraine and hope that they will lead to a cessation of hostilities and a compromise. We believe that peaceful dialogue is the only possible instrument for resolving conflicts. War isn’t good for anyone,” Eugene Kaspersky tweeted when Russian and Ukrainian delegations met for peace talks near Ukraine’s border with Belarus…

Apple has pulled from Russia and sending aid to Ukraine. Did Microsoft condemned or pulled from Russia ?
Never heard a beep from Microsoft.

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OscarCP

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Alex: Good point! And, last time I checked, Redmond is not in Russia.

Now Russia, where Redmond does not happen to be, is not a free society (unlike the one where Redmond actually is): Even the words “war”, invasion”, “agression” in relation to the events in Ukraine from whatever free press is left in Russia, have been banned, with criminal proceedings and possible sentences of up to 15 years to follow their use, as recently has become public knowledge here, in the West. So, what other public attitude can be demanded from anyone living in Russia right now?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-bans-words-invasion-and-assault-in-media-warns-several-outlets/

Kaspersky’s opinions are not the serious issue here, what is the serious issue is the extent that the Russian government is throttling the free press in its territory and threatening peace and stability world-wide, including the possibility of some very serious cyberattacks against Internet based-services, such as components of their critical infrastructure, of nations opposing its invasion of an independent and democratic nation, without any plausibly necessary reason for doing so.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Steve

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Alex5723 wrote:

Apple has pulled from Russia and sending aid to Ukraine.
Did Microsoft condemned or pulled from Russia ?
Never heard a beep from Microsoft.

Apparently you’re not listening carefully enough:

Microsoft

Microsoft said on Monday it was removing RT news apps from its Windows app store, would not display any state-sponsored RT and Sputnik content and would de-rank their search results on Bing “so that it will only return RT and Sputnik links when a user clearly intends to navigate to those pages”.

The company also said it was banning all advertisements from RT and Sputnik across its ad network and likewise would not place any ads from its network on these sites.

“We are moving swiftly to take new steps to reduce the exposure of Russian state propaganda, as well to ensure our own platforms do not inadvertently fund these operations,” Microsoft president and vice chair Brad Smith said in a blog post.

Which tech companies are cutting ties with Russia over its war in Ukraine?

Our Microsoft Philanthropies and UN Affairs teams work closely with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and multiple UN agencies, and we have moved quickly to mobilize our resources to help the people in Ukraine.
…
Once again, we are also encouraging and seeing an outpouring of generosity from our employees in the United States, across Europe and around the world through Microsoft’s employee giving program. Employee donations, together with Microsoft matching contributions, are currently focused on helping to provide funds to nonprofit organizations on the frontline, including the ICRC, UNICEF and Polish Humanitarian Action.

Digital technology and the war in Ukraine
Feb 28, 2022 | Brad Smith – President & Vice Chair

Microsoft: Russia invasion of Ukraine ‘unlawful, unjustified

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Alex5723

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OscarCP wrote:

last time I checked, Redmond is not in Russia.

Ford, BP, Intel, Airbus, Boeing, Oracle, AMD, SAP, Mercedes-Benz, Spotify..are also not in Russia but they pulled presence and all support in Russia.
Microsoft sells Windows, Office, servers, …licenses to Russian government…These Windows PCs/servers help Russia with its war in Ukraine.

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Microsoft has announced it is to suspend all new sales of its products and services into Russia, making it the latest, and so far largest, technology company to withdraw from the market as a direct result of Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.
…
“Like the rest of the world, we are horrified, angered and saddened by the images and news coming from the war in Ukraine, and condemn this unjustified, unprovoked and unlawful invasion by Russia,” said Microsoft president and vice-chair Brad Smith in a statement explaining the decision.

In the past eight days, he said, Microsoft’s security teams have acted against Russian “positioning, destructive or disruptive measures” on more than 20 government, IT and financial services organisations, and defended against a number of cyber attacks targeting civilian sites.

Additionally, it has raised concerns that some of these attacks may violate the Geneva Convention.

Microsoft stops sales of products and services to Russia

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OscarCP, Alex5723

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Saw that statement today.

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If “not servicing”, in the case of Windows means not providing any more updates and fixes for Windows 10 or 11, wouldn’t this be a blessing, as some have been implicitly maintaining here for years?

More seriously, I imagine the Russian government might have considered this possibility and even set up some outfit similar to “0patch”. Also assuming that they are big on Windows.

Are they? Have they?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Cybertooth

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What’s a good substitute software for the data vault in Kaspersky’s Total Security?

 

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What does the data vault do?

cheers, Paul

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Not having used any Kaspersky products and based solely on descriptions of Kaspersky Data Vault, it seems VeraCrypt could be a drop-in replacement for it, assuming their Password Manager piece doesn’t tie directly/integrate with it.

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In addition to avoiding the potential security threats posed by using Kaspersky software, we are supporting the trade embargo covering doing business with Russian owned or operated companies. Kaspersky is headquartered in Moscow.

Supporting this position, in part, is the German Federal Office for Information Security’s (BSI) warning against using Kaspersky anti-malware products due to Russian threats against the EU, NATO, and Germany earlier this month.

And, since September 2019, all US government agencies and their contractors have been prohibited from using cybersecurity products provided by or using software made by Kaspersky.

The US ban is comprehensive and covers the, “contracting for hardware, software and services developed or provided by Kaspersky Lab or its related entities, or using any such hardware, software or services in the development of data or deliverables first produced in the performance of the contract”.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/06/15/2018-12847/federal-acquisition-regulation-use-of-products-and-services-of-kaspersky-lab

In short, if you do work for the US federal government you are restricted from using Kaspersky products on any IT system that directly or indirectly touches government work.

So, the way we see it, if one of your employees uses a Kaspersky product on their personal computer and uses the computer to check their office email you are in violation of the federal ban. The same goes for subcontractors.

Or if you service computers for a firm that does work for the federal government you are also prohibited from using Kaspersky products on any device that may interface with your client’s hardware or software.

 

 

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If Kaspersky’s threats to national security are so grave
The US should order by President signed order, Microsoft, to remotely wipe any Kaspersky installed software from every PC/Server in the US and block any re-installation attempts.

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Alex

I question the premise of you post that Microsoft should remotely wipe Kaspersky installed software from every PC/Server in the US and block any re-installation attempts.

The whole AskWoody universe is founded on the proposition that Microsoft should be less invasive not more intrusive into our PCs.

And I do not recall that Microsoft has pushed any Kaspersky products onto our computers. Why should they be responsible for removing it?

However, The President has taken action. As late as March 21, The White House released a briefing entitled Act Now to Protect Against Potential Cyberattacks.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/21/fact-sheet-act-now-to-protect-against-potential-cyberattacks/

It is time for individuals and organization to assume greater responsibility for their cyber security.

I have been working within the energy sector for decades – including work related to risk management.

Yes, we are still at risk of energy disruptions but pipelines, power transmission organizations, as well as local electricity and natural gas distribution companies have made substantial investments in cyber security.

As an example, one of the organizations I work with required that I undergo a Federal background check before I could gain access to their facilities and then had to pass through multiple security barriers before entering one of their control rooms. It is substantially easier to gain access to an airplane then an energy related control room.

But your post does open the question, has/should Microsoft stop supporting its products on Russian-based computers?

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OscarCP

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In the post, Germany warns against Russian anti-virus use at   https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/germany-warns-against-russian-anti-virus-use/#post-2434536  you posted that ““The U.S. placed internet-security provider AO Kaspersky Lab on a list of companies deemed a threat to national security, for the first time adding a Russian entity to a list dominated by Chinese telecommunications firms.”

Still no proof for wrong doing.””

I took your post to mean that since there was no proof that Kaspersky anti-virus software posed a threat it was OK to continue using it on our PCs.

Now you are posting that, “If Kaspersky’s threats to national security are so grave The US should order by President signed order, Microsoft, to remotely wipe any Kaspersky installed software from every PC/Server in the US and block any re-installation attempts.”

Please clarify your position. Should we or should we not use Kaspersky software on our computers?

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

But your post does open the question, has/should Microsoft stop supporting its products on Russian-based computers?

Microsoft did stop support of all services but hasn’t wiped Windows PCs of Windows OS.

Kathy Stevens wrote:

It is time for individuals and organization to assume greater responsibility for their cyber security.

When national security in concerned you don’t leave it to individuals to decide.
You act by removing the threat.
Microsoft should act concerning Kaspersky as it did by removing Flash.

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OscarCP

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

Please clarify your position. Should we or should we not use Kaspersky software on our computers?

I am not a US citizen and my country doesn’t see Kaspersky as a threat.
I will continue to use Kaspersky until proof has been presented for wrong doing.
US citizens should follow their security services advice but by doing so will lose free will.

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Alex

The issue is greater than a security risk.

It is a willingness to support the Ukrainian people by depriving Russia of a revenue stream in response to their invasion of a sovereign nation.

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OscarCP, DriftyDonN, wavy

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Homeland Security doesn’t care about the money..

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In worrisome time when total destruction is not imaginary anymore
Something to consider when making special I.T. policies and acting on a state level, contacting your own national NCSC organisation might be a wise thing

Source , TASS, 29 March 2022:   https://tass.com/politics/1429201

 

* _ ... _ *

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Fred: Those cyber attacks on the Russian government mentioned in the PDF you have attached to your message are (I hope) from free-lancers that are taken in their hands to “help” the Ukrainians, or just plain hate Putin and his regime. I don’t argue that the regime, or Putin, are exactly lovable, being war criminals and all that, and if there ever were another world war and we survived (probably no to “survive”) he and his stooges should be tried in Nürenberg (because that would be a kind of poetic justice) and then hang from the neck until etc. just as in the old days, most big-fish Nazis. (The ones that did not escape to Argentina or, if memory serves, to the USA, like rocket engineers von Brown and co, or those rocket engineers also from Penemünde that surrendered to Russia.)

But those (I hope) free-lancers are doing something that put us all to great peril. Unfortunately, the only way to root them out would be with a cooperation between Russian and Western (yes, it is again “Western” and we are probably stuck with that) intelligence services.

So here we are.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Amen to that. Yes, this a way of perspective. One might wonder if this era of information is blessing or not. Some modesty cannot harm.

* _ ... _ *

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OscarCP

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While Kaspersky Lab may produce some of the best antivirus tools, recent events including:

• the Russian invasion of the Ukraine,
• the shuttering of independent news organizations within Russia,
• arrests of peaceful demonstrators on the streets of Moscow and other cities, and
• a history of being home to numerous cyber criminals are ample reasons not to use its products.

Kaspersky is a Russian owned and operated company headquartered at 39A/2 Leningradskoe Shosse, Moscow, 25212, Russian Federation.

Like Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland during the fall of 1939, Russia has invaded and occupied portions of the Ukraine displacing 6.5 million people including more than 3.8 million people who have fled the country in less than five weeks according to the United Nations.

In addition, the Russians have caused massive destruction to the nation’s housing and infrastructure. And, the owner of Kaspersky Lab, Eugene Kaspersky, a Russian cybersecurity expert, has not spoken out against the invasion and occupation of the Ukraine.

According to Wikipedia, prior to forming Kaspersky Lab, Kaspersky worked for the Russian military and was educated at a KGB-sponsored technical college where he was prepared to become an intelligence officer for the Russian military and KGB.

He graduated college in 1987 with a degree in mathematical engineering and computer technology. After graduating, Kaspersky served in the Soviet military intelligence service as a software engineer and vacationed at Severskoye, a KGB vacation resort in 1987.

In addition, he was also a member of the youth division of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

Now there is a call to boycott Kaspersky software.

As Russia’s threats against the EU and NATO continue to intensify, countries like Germany and Italy have stepped away from Kaspersky products out of fear of spying and/or the leaking of stolen information. They were preceded in their action by the United States government.

The threat to European and North American cyber security is real. It has been reported that on occasion the company has communicated with Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) and leaked private information obtained from its customers.

Making matters worse, the company’s owner, Eugene Kaspersky, has taken a neutral stance with respect to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Trade publications thoughts on Kaspersky include:

• “Tom’s Guide and its parent company Future have chosen to stop doing affiliate-link business with Russian companies, including Kaspersky.”
• PCMag has stated that “… based on the increasing censure and criticism of Kaspersky by US government agencies, foreign agencies, and informed third parties, we can no longer recommend Kaspersky’s products.”
• Cnet has stated that, “In the end, even though no one has ever publicly produced a “smoking gun” linking the company to Russian intrigue, we think any of the (antivirus) option(s) listed above is a safer bet. And if you are a US government employee or work with the federal government, you’ll want to steer clear of Kaspersky internet security products — and perhaps use one of the antivirus software products mentioned here instead.”
• PCWorld does not include any Kaspersky products in its February 28, 1922 column Best antivirus: Keep your Windows PC safe from spyware, Trojans, malware, and more.
• Cybernews states that, “… we can simply no longer recommend Kaspersky as a reputable antivirus service provider and thus encourage our readers to boycott it and get an alternative antivirus tool in order to stay safe online.”

And major US vendors are no longer selling Kaspersky products including:

• BestBuy
• Newegg
• Micro Center
• Walmart
• Target
• Staples

In short, we do not feel comfortable doing business with Kaspersky and recommend that other computer users find alternative antivirus tools in order to ensure their safety while on line, due to:

• Kaspersky Lab being a Moscow-based company,
• Eugene Kaspersky’s failure to speak out against the invasion and occupation of the Ukraine,
• Eugene Kaspersky’s historic ties to the KGB, Russian military, and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, and
• The history of the Russian governments intrusion into the operations of the “private sector” organizations.

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DriftyDonN, Steve, Cybertooth, wavy

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Kathy Stevens: In case this last comment of yours has something to do with my comment on the people who worked for Kaspersky and are now leaving Russia, I was referring only to their situation, not implying that using the company’s products is a good idea. Unless the Swiss police cannot find any evidence of mischief going on there, it might be OK to use the AV, but I still would not advise people to use it. For the security reasons you have outlined.

As to Kaspersky’s being a member of the Communist Youth, etc.: That was the usual thing for young people to be, if they were accepted, to start building a CV, for example to be accepted as students at a top learning institution, etc. Nothing necessarily evil about the people who were members of this organization. Those were the times, those were the things for ordinary people to do. Most people just tried to get on with their lives there, same as anywhere else. Many hated the Soviet regime, but they had families to look after and jobs to keep to do that. So they went along with the flow.

His being educated at a KGB-sponsored university or college, etc.: That is a reason to worry, but might not mean much. Hard to say. That was more than 30 years ago. Circumstances change and people, sometimes, with them. I don’t think we know enough to say one way or another, although it is a reason for being cautious about what he and his company might be up to.

On he speaking out, I have considered that in my previous comments explaining why I think that he said as much as was reasonably and responsibly for anyone to say, short of being heroic for fifteen minutes and then getting dragged to jail and that being that.

The great French writer Georges Simenon’s famous motto was: “I do not judge, I observe and try to understand.”

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Cybertooth, Fred

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CORRECTION to my March 30, 2022 at 3:58 pm contribution to this post

“PCWorld does not include any Kaspersky products in its February 28, 1922 column Best antivirus: Keep your Windows PC safe from spyware, Trojans, malware, and more.”

The correct date is February 28, 2022.

Hope the error does not become a distraction the core topic of the post Kaspersky and Ukraine.

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Cybertooth, OscarCP

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OscarCP wrote:

His being educated at a KGB-sponsored university or college, etc.: That is a reason to worry, but might not mean much.

In my view it means a lot. There were plenty of good universities that had no obvious connection to the KGB, so it seems odd to choose one that does.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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About samak’s comment “There were plenty of good universities that had no obvious connection to the KGB, so it seems odd to choose one that does.”

Maybe, given how things were there at the time, he did not choose: he was chosen.

He must have been obviously a bright kid and good at certain things that someone in a position to decide thought could be useful, if directed in a certain way: We shall never know. Not enough data to compute an answer, sort of thing. What happened then and afterwards, when — perhaps because he had the obligation to agree to do it as a condition for getting his higher education — he was working for Soviet military intelligence after graduation, for four years, doing something that could have been related to regular intelligence analysis work, or something very nasty. Again: not enough data.
What he did after that was what became his main line of work: developing antimalware software, doing cybersecurity work, and founding his own company to make antimalware software and provide cybersecurity services. Software, in particular, that seems to have been good for many people that bought and used this company’s products, both in Russia and abroad. And doing that made him quite wealthy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Kaspersky

(The controversies about its relationship with Russian military Intelligence is outlined in the  section “Controversies”)

 

This the story of his company:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_Lab

Excerpt:

“The company has since announced commitments to increased accountability, such as soliciting independent reviews and verification of its software’s source code, and announcing that it would migrate some of its core infrastructure for foreign customers from Russia to Switzerland In November 2020 Kaspersky finished relocating the data of its customers from Russia to Switzerland. The company has also opened multiple transparency centers in Switzerland, Brazil, Canada, Spain and Malaysia which allow state agencies, government experts and regulators to review its source code.”

Ultimately, the question is not what Kaspersky is like, but what, even if he is angel, will happen with his company still in Russia, that probably has to do whatever Putin wants it to do, for example become a very serious cyberweapon if he so wishes it, as long as  people insist in using this company’s products and whatever the part of the company in Switzerland can do about it.

Could this happen? Has it happened? Want to bet it has not and shall not with your computer, your data, your personal information stored in it? Or if your have a business, with your LAN and what is in it?”

That is a question only you can answer.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

what, even if he is angel, will happen with his company still in Russia, that probably has to do whatever Putin wants it to do, for example become a very serious cyberweapon if he so wishes it, as long as  people insist in using this company’s products and whatever the part of the company in Switzerland can do about it.

Well, same reasoning is valid for companies in the USA jurisdiction (for instance) and being forced to cooperate with the secret services. Examples are obvious and valid for most big powerful countries, see EFF or BitsOfFreedom etc. for critics on personal freedom and privacy. Seems to be commom practice right now; that’s a pitty.

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Fred: The difference is that those companies are in Russia, so they are not here. And Putin is also in Russia, and does not like us. Really does not like us. Maybe because we are doing our best to make the economy there scream in agony to punish Putin for Ukraine, and Joe Biden keeps saying he should be removed from his job as President of the Russian Federation. Joe Biden tends to say things like that. Otherwise, yes, is much the same thing.

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This is completely besides what I wrote and ment. To be more concrete, my emailprovider datastorage dataencryption and messengerapplications are outside the usa, but in countries that respect peoples privacy. So mr.B or whoever cannot snoop around witout good reasons or a courtorder.

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Actually, what I wrote is, in my opinion, a fair description of the true situation as far as we are concerned here. I wrote this in what I thought was a humorous way, but still stating correctly the relevant facts that, in my opinion, matter most at the moment. The original sin, to call it something, of governmental spy and cyberwarfare organizations being real and active on all sides, I do not think is directly relevant to the most important aspects of the present situation, at least as far as I understand it.

That is because the unjustifiable, criminal invasion by Russia of Ukraine, has broken the significance of whatever symmetry between the two sides might have existed until then.

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OscarCP wrote:

Joe Biden keeps saying he should be removed

Once, and it has since been rolled back.

cheers, Paul

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Fred

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Actually he has repeated that after the White House staff tried to roll it back, saying it was not what he meant, by confirming in no unclear terms that yes, that was what he meant, in a later interview:

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-removal-statement-1692635

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Biden Administration Split Over Whether to Sanction Kaspersky – article in Wall Street Journal

Some officials are said to fear that sanctioning Kaspersky Lab could increase risk of Russian cyberattack​

The White House’s National Security Council has pressed the Treasury Department to ready the sanctions as part of the broad Western campaign to punish Russia for its invasion of Ukraine, according to officials familiar with the matter. While Treasury officials have been working to prepare the package, sanctions experts within the department have raised concerns over the size and scope of such a move. The company’s software is used by hundreds of millions of customers across the world, making it difficult to enforce the sanctions.

In addition, some officials in the U.S. and Europe fear sanctioning Kaspersky Lab will increase the likelihood of triggering a cyberattack against the West by Moscow, even potentially leveraging the software itself. …

Sanctions of this nature typically block or freeze the assets of companies or individuals who are targeted and bar U.S. citizens from engaging in transactions with those companies or people.

Link to article – https://www.wsj.com/articles/proposal-t … cle_inline

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Seems like a valid assumption. Was it made by engineers, or by merely policy makers? And what is the opinion of the ICT security comparison studies, other than the results of the commercial outcomes ment for the general public? Who will tell what product is best nowadays, for data protection is made by far more different protection techniques than this kind of virus and malware scanners. Data input and output control might be far more important in times of ransomware and kernel- and firmware-highjacking.

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OscarCP

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This is a case of: “it could well be, but we really don’t know and cannot wait long enough to figure it out, because that might take longer than we have left to take effective protective measures; so if we get this wrong, it better be because of “an excess of caution”, that is what is called for in cases like this by the need to observe due diligence, while taking urgently needed action.

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Fred

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In what is a very sober discussion of a grim subject, I cannot resist the temptation to throw in some comic relief:

Kathy Stevens wrote:

PCWorld does not include any Kaspersky products in its February 28, 1922 column Best antivirus: Keep your Windows PC safe from spyware, Trojans, malware, and more.

Taking note of the date, this article strikes me as quite prescient! Maybe the “PC” in the name stands for “paranormal clairvoyant”?  🙂

As we used to write in an earlier cyber-generation:  <g,d,r>

 

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Actually, PCWorld DOES include Kaspersky Security Cloud in its Mar 1, 2022 article “The best free antivirus”

https://www.pcworld.com/article/398720/best-free-antivirus.html

An earlier generation knew GDR stood for German Democratic Republic 🙂

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GDR

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I just did a Web search to find out what <g,d,r> might have meant in geek-speech (decades ago maybe?) and got what you can see here. So, as I have mentioned already in other threads, I suspect the search engines are in bad shape:

 

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Fred

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[Fred]

g,d,r,
G.D.R.
D.D.R. Deutsche Democratische Republiek in Deutsch

So, what language are you using? Or is it a local way of speak? This is quite confusing for a dumb foreigner in your country.

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• This reply was modified 3 years ago by Fred.

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Hi Fred, I live in the USA, & speak English. The GDR stand’s for my Initials.

Sorry you didn’t understand!

GDR

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Haha, thanks GDR, that’s nice of you to tell.
This explains a lot

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It was actually <g,d.r>, ancient geek-speak that Cybertooth has explained further down in this thread. It was from a time before emojis and means: “grinning, ducking, running” when making a joke, to make sure it was understood as such.

The English language is blameless here.

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Cybertooth

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Thanks OscarCP, This is new to me, grinning, ducking, running. I would never do that, even though is is funny. Anyway thanks for the post

GDR

GDR

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Cybertooth,

I think that clairvoyance might not have been necessary in this case.

The Trump government already had prohibited government employees and contractors, as well as those organizations employing them, to use Kapersky, because of concerns with the changes in the company staff starting around 2017 (I think. It is in one of the Wikipedia articles I have linked to a comment here, recently). The changes were that experienced people with years of service were being replaced with others with links to the military and the intelligence and security agencies of the Russian government.

If I understood correctly, then around that time Kaspersky started to move technical staff in charge of those applications to Switzerland and began setting up “transparency centers” (where their products could be examined in detail by outsiders) in various countries. Which, for me at lest, complicates understanding the overall situation in terms of: is he good or bad? And how much is he either?

So maybe it was not too difficult for those in charge of those publications to decide that, in view of the already badly evolving situation between Russia and Ukraine, it was better to start disavowing any connection with Kaspersky and to stop recommending Kaspersky products to their readers. Also, according to samak, not all at once.

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Who will tell what product is best nowadays, for data protection is made by far more different protection techniques than this kind of virus and malware scanners. Data input and output control might be far more important in times of ransomware and kernel- and firmware-highjacking.
This are times of multi layered attacks as you all well will know.

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@OscarCP (and @Fred),

OscarCP wrote:

I just did a Web search to find out what <g,d,r> might have meant in geek-speech (decades ago maybe?) and got what you can see here.</g,d,r>

Back in the ’80s and ’90s, when CompuServe was king and many years before GUIs became widespread and smiley-face emoticons were invented, geeks on Internet (note the lack of a “the” before “Internet”) would rely on text-based symbols to convey emotion, in the effort to make sure that the intent of what they wrote wasn’t misinterpreted by readers.

The first such symbol I came across was <g>, which stood for “grinning” in light of what the writer had just said, indicating that it wasn’t meant to be taken completely seriously. Over time, this was extended to <g,d> or “grinning and ducking,” indicating a greater degree of outrageous humor, as if readers might feel tempted to throw something at the writer.

The last and greatest extension of the concept was <g,d,r>, which stood for “grinning, ducking, and running,” suggesting an even higher degree of real or imagined risk to the writer.

BTW, notice the year (1922) given for the PCWorld article, which is what prompted this little detour.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread. Hijacking incident now over. <g>

 

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Cybertooth: thank you very much!. This was wiped out of my memory, I never was any good at this that was used in the bbs’s and irc channels. #NeverToOldToLern

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Cybertooth wrote:

when CompuServe was king

😥

Miss it still.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Hi wavy, I’ve been there and done that 🙂

In 1989 I bought her a Commodore 64, and played with it before I gave it to my daughter. I really liked it, because I has a subscription to the Commodore magazine for a few years, I bought me one. I really liked it, but with only 64K memory, I bought me a Commodore 128 K, with a extra 1521 external drive. I was a member of WASA = Wilmington Area SysOps Association.

I love to post on CompuServe, AOL, & other’s. I then bought a IBM 1551, no HD, just a big 5 & a quarter floppy drive. I would have to put the OS disk, then put the program disk to access the above. Then I started a Christian BBS, & I used DeskView so I could Multitask. Later on I bought Windows 95, & upgraded my PC, & used Maxamus BBS program, & had a Online Bible search, a BlueWave offline reader. Every thing was done in DOS command line. I had around 30 Christian forums, & around 35 FidoNet forums. I shut it down around 1998, because I was under attack by Satanist, Wiccan’s and everthing inbetween. I wish now that I had keep it running. It was a International Network, & had a lot of countries signed up, & Moderators, & Zone coordinator’s.

Thank’s for reading my long post, it’s like I have all of those memories.

GDR

GDR

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Cybertooth

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If I might be allowed to answer the three comments above on something from the days when Ukraine was not yet an independent country:

Here and there, maintained by dedicated, nostalgic sysops, some BBS live on in a twilight existence:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/11/the-lost-civilization-of-dial-up-bulletin-board-systems/506465/

Excerpts:

“After I finished my dial-up rounds, I emailed a half dozen modern Telnet BBS sysops and asked them why they do it. All of them referenced nostalgia, and some mentioned preserving history. One of them hadn’t run a BBS at all back in the technology’s heyday; he just wanted to see what he had missed.

Quite a bit, it turns out. Those who didn’t live through or participate in the BBS era likely equate being online with hyper-connectedness, which feels more and more like a corporate-sponsored illusion every day. Those users missed out on the elemental intimacy of the BBS. It was messy, it was personal, and it was profound.”

….

“The BBS era didn’t really end. It still lives on inside me, somewhere. Thanks to dedicated sysops like Luther and Powell, future generations may be able to continue exploring their Pompeii. But like anything lost to time, the BBS’s future callers won’t be able to feel the emotions attached to the ash.”

Then along came, first the Internet, then Twitter and the like, and with these, all those forums with endless series of maybe three-line comments contradicting each other, about nothing much …

Fortunately there are still those online Websites such as AskWoody, when one can still write long or short, depending on the topic, but seriously, often expressing and arguing an opinion in full and supporting it with evidence gathered from reliable sources on the Web, for all to see.

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GDR

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Are they on a radio based system now? Short wave will be around for a while after the apocalypse.

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Still using dial-up, it seems.

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The United States has expanded its sanctions on Russian technology companies.

Follow the link to a U.S. Department of the Treasury Press Releases dated March 31, 2022

Treasury Targets Sanctions Evasion Networks and Russian Technology Companies Enabling Putin’s War

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0692

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On March 31, Reuters released an article EXCLUSIVE    U.S. warned firms about Russia’s Kaspersky software day after invasion -sources

Follow the link to the article

https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-us-warned-firms-about-russias-kaspersky-software-day-after-invasion-2022-03-31/

Key takeaways from the article include:

• “The senior U.S. official said Kaspersky’s Russia-based staff could be coerced into providing or helping establish remote access into their customers’ computers by Russian law enforcement or intelligence agencies.”
• “The Russian cybersecurity firm, which has an office in the United States, lists partnerships with Microsoft, Intel and IBM on its website. Microsoft declined to comment. Intel and IBM did not respond to requests for comment.”
• “”Moscow software engineers handle the [software] updates, that’s where the risk comes,” they said. “They can send malicious commands through the updaters and that comes from Russia.””
• “Cybersecurity experts say that because of how anti-virus software normally functions on computers where it is installed, it requires a deep level of control to discovery malware. This makes anti-virus software an inherently advantageous channel to conduct espionage.”
• “”We have no evidence that the Russian state intends to suborn Russian commercial products and services to cause damage to UK interests, but the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence,” the National Cyber Security Centre said in a blog post.”

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

…Kaspersky’s Russia-based staff could be coerced into providing or helping establish remote access into their customers’ computers by Russian law enforcement or intelligence agencies.

To me, this is the crux of the matter. Whether Kaspersky himself or his employees might still be KGB/FSB, or whether they are happy to aid in promoting Putin’s designs, are secondary to whether they might be threatened with various degrees of unpleasantness should they fail to provide such aid via their software. Can we, as actual or potential Kaspersky customers, really afford to take that risk?

 

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Cybertooth wrote:

Kathy Stevens wrote:

…Kaspersky’s Russia-based staff could be coerced into providing or helping establish remote access into their customers’ computers by Russian law enforcement or intelligence agencies.

To me, this is the crux of the matter. Whether Kaspersky himself or his employees might still be KGB/FSB, or whether they are happy to aid in promoting Putin’s designs, are secondary to whether they might be threatened with various degrees of unpleasantness should they fail to provide such aid via their software. Can we, as actual or potential Kaspersky customers, really afford to take that risk?

 

yes, this is a very good assumption; probably not.
But the same may be questionned with Huawei Cisco Philips, to name a few.
Several geographically oriented powerblocs arise

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Cybertooth

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Of course with the Solar Winds debacle they may already have their claws in our anesthetized flesh. I hope there is a whole lot more going on the ameliorate this threat than is given voice to in the media.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Yes there is a lot more going on in the defense and offense business. One example is how alied governments got the scambled and encrypted phones hacked-back. That was a good job.
Even yesterday there were a bunch of crooks sent to jail for a long time, in a fast procedure that’s now possible here; for all the evidence is completely proof with crook-statemen from these tapped phoes aswell.
Lucky anough; Sometimes things can go good and fast.

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OscarCP wrote:

Still using dial-up, it seems.

???

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Maybe a satellite based internet connection is a bit more accurate right now.

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Fred: Old Bulletin Boards were based on 1980’s telephone connections used before the Internet became widely available. The people still running and using them over here are not interested in anything else. It’s a strange but charming little world of nostalgic people with a passion for doing things the old way.

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Very gentle of you to try to explain the Bulletin Board System to me, but I have never asked to. I am well aware of this communication.

[@]Wavy:
My assumption is that a satellite-based internet connection is more usable at this point. People in Russia (and other countries) are looking for good and reliable information from the west.
In fact, the free Russian press and journalists, such as The Moscow Times, are looking for reliable ways to exchange information. Satellite phones and perhaps Elon Musk’s Starlink satellite network may be useful connections.

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wavy “???”: Connecting to BBS. With telephone modems. Remember those? No? I do.

I think that we should cut this out now. It’s an unlikely solution to the problem of people in Russia not getting news from outside of what really is going on. And probably as easy to block as is getting those news on the Internet. Radio from abroad is likely to be jammed in situations such as the present one in Russia. Or as it used to be in the Soviet Union.

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OscarCP wrote:

Connecting to BBS. With telephone modems. Remember those? No? I do.

Lost the context some how . And Yes I do remember CIS and BlueWave(?) SW.

🍻

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Consumer Reports has added a warning to its evaluation of Kaspersky anti-malware software that states,

“The Federal Communications Commission has added Kaspersky Lab, a Russian firm, to a list of companies it says pose a threat to national security. Previously, in 2017, Kaspersky Lab products were banned for use in federal computer systems. In addition, a number of independent security experts have expressed concern about the company. Consumer Reports has not independently tested Kaspersky Internet Security for its vulnerability to exploitation by the Russian government.”

https://www.consumerreports.org/products/antivirus-software-33143/antivirus-for-windows-33142/view2/

So, who is Consumer Reports? They operate a consumer product and service testing center where they conduct quantitative evaluations of all sorts of things including antivirus software, computers, computer monitors, laptops & Chromebooks, tablets, and wireless routers.

Of the six free anti-malware programs for Windows Consumer Reports has evaluated it recommends, Kaspersky Security Cloud Free ranks first followed closely by Avast Free Antivirus and AVG Antivirus FREE.

Of the 17 Windows anti-malware programs available for purchase, Consumer Reports ranks Kaspersky Internet Security highest followed closely behind in their ratings by Bitdefender Internet Security, AVG Internet Security, ESET Internet Security, F-Secure SAFE, Norton 360 Deluxe, and Avast Premium Security.

They also rank anti-malware programs Mac users.

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I see no problem with the Consumer Reports (CR) quote. They are saying there what is already well-known about Kaspersky’s AV: a previously well-regarded product now under suspicion, so it is best to avoid using. The way this has been written is clunky, but intelligible.

As to the reliability of the CR reports, the ones I pay attention to, so I can say something about, usually are those on cellphone companies and about car recalls, as well as those on car models, new and used, that come out once a year.

For some time now, CR has been giving a lot of space to expensive things that I have no need of and no interest whatsoever in buying, and some people have written to CR complaining about this: such as huge kitchen refrigerators big enough to keep food cold for a whole regiment in their appliances section, or mostly top-of the-line luxury cars and SUVs in the cars section.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
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Hi Kathy Stevens, Thanks for the post. I have Kaspersky Total Security, & I really need to know what to do with this. I am in the process to fine a security Suite to replace Kaspersky, because at this point I don’t trust them.

Anyway have a great rest of your day!

GDR

GDR

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Fred

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If you are not happy with Kaspersky, uninstall it.
Windows Defender will then become the default AV.

If you want more protection, consider MalwareBytes Anti Malware (MBAM) free or paid in conjunction with Defender.
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/paid-security-verses-the-free-microsoft-defender-on-windows-10/#post-2400878

cheers, Paul

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GDR

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Good of you to follow the international guidelines, and don’t stick to the tough pr-talk some present at the internet.
Kathy published a list of (payed) Security Suites. Bitdefender wa/is on top, and good. Malwarebytes (payed) is very strong too. Using Hitman-pro (payed) is very good too.
regards fred

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Thanks Fred, for the Info. I think I will go with some of the recommendations here.

Have a good night…

GDR

 

GDR

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Fred

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I would not recommend Consumer Reports for evaluation of anything computer related. Just my opinion from having looked at such years past. Maybe I would have to change my mind now. Now cars and appliances? With a grain of salt.

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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GDR, Fred

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For what it is worth, my primary reason for bring up Consumer Reports was that it is extremely unusual for the organization to incorporate a warning such as the one that it attached to its review of Kaspersky antivirus software.

We have found Consumer Reports to be a credible organization that we frequently use as a starting point in our search for consumer goods.  We use their reviews as leading indicators when we are faced choosing between multiple manufacturers and numerous models. In other words, a way to eliminate manufacturers whose products come in at the bottom of CRs ratings.

With respect to antivirus security suites, other than Kaspersky Internet Security, do you take exception with Consumer Reports’ recommended choices that include:

• Bitdefender Internet Security,
• AVG Internet Security,
• ESET Internet Security,
• F-Secure SAFE,
• Norton 360 Deluxe, and
• Avast Premium Security?

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GDR

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

For what it is worth, my primary reason for bring up Consumer Reports was that it is extremely unusual for the organization to incorporate a warning such as the one that it attached to its review of Kaspersky antivirus software.

We have found Consumer Reports to be a credible organization that we frequently use as a starting point in our search for consumer goods.  We use their reviews as leading indicators when we are faced choosing between multiple manufacturers and numerous models. In other words, a way to eliminate manufacturers whose products come in at the bottom of CRs ratings.

With respect to antivirus security suites, other than Kaspersky Internet Security, do you take exception with Consumer Reports’ recommended choices that include:

• Bitdefender Internet Security,
• AVG Internet Security,
• ESET Internet Security,
• F-Secure SAFE,
• Norton 360 Deluxe, and
• Avast Premium Security?

Is there anyone who can tell why Comodo Internet Security is out of the picture and tests?

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wavy

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Probably because it isn’t very good. We went through this back in December.
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/eol-for-bitdefender-antivirus-free-edition-in-january-22/#post-2405530

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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Kathy Stevens

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Thank you Samak, very kind of you; about Comodo I lost track of this thread from december 10th 2021.
I tried to follow up these tests from ¹ Anti-Virus plus ² anti-malware plus ³ firewall functionalities combined on the internet.
Somehow I couln’t find a good and comparitive explanation.

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GDR

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(Quote) Is there anyone who can tell why Comodo Internet Security is out of the picture and tests?

Hi Fred, I have used that for a while, & I had so many problems with it. It took a lone time before I could delete it from my system. I hope no one will ever install this, don’t know if it is available now. I use Revo Uninstaller now because it will remove all the leftovers that Windows cannot do.

Take care, Fred.

 

GDR

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Fred

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Thanks GDR, Comodo Internet Securitysuite is difficult to tune the whole lot of setting.
They do have a complete uninstaller at their site.
I still use their Firewall (only, and single installer) that one is very good, though it took a long time to learn what’s best for me. When I ever will lea e that, than I will choose for Tiny-firewall on top of the WindowsFirewall.

The Kaspersky-suite was(is) good for consumers, but in these times it’s best to international guidelines and advises by FBI Interpol NCSC’s etc.
I imagine that many crime is coming. Multilayered Attackvectors are quite common right now. BIOS UEFI Boot Firmware etc are multilayered vulnerable.
It’s time i.m.h.o. that people give that some attention.

[Moderator edit] removed swearing

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A little more on Consumer Reports’ product reviews.

As a practical matter it is not possible for CR to test and report on every product that can fit within a review category.

Case in point, at present, CR provides computer ratings and reliability data on 42 computers including:

• 16 Full-size Windows desktops,
• 3 Compact Windows desktops, and
• 18 All-in-one Windows desktops.

At the same time, HP is offering nearly 80 desktops for sale via. its website including but not limited to:

• 6 ENVY Towers,
• 5 OMEN 25L Gaming Desktops,
• 5 OMEN 30L Gaming Desktops,
• 5 OMEN 40L Desktop GT21,
• 5 OMEN 45L Gaming Desktop,
• 10 Pavilion Desktops,
• 5 Pavilion Gaming Desktops, and
• 5 Victus by HP 15L Gaming Desktops.

And those are just the HP numbers.

Multiply that by the number of computers being offered by Acer, Apple, Asus, Dell, Lenovo, and MSI and the magnitude of the computer evaluation task begins to come into focus.

Then consider the rate at which “new” PC models are introduced for sale and “old” units removed and CR’s rating task can begin to be fully appreciated.

And the problem is not restricted to Consumer Reports.  When was the last time you saw a desktop review that covered all seven major PC manufacturers and their full catalogue of products?

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They usually put Macs at the top of their list on home user computers. I wholly agree. Others probably strongly disagree.

But they are supposed to have tested whatever they recommend, or don’t, in a lab doing work that I support with an annual donation, as well as paying for my annual subscription to CR.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Very defensive with respect to Consumer Reports.  Do you work for them?

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Fred

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?: “Very defensive with respect to Consumer Reports. Do you work for them?”

Am I being defensive? Do I work for CR?

I am not defending anything, just explaining what I do: subscribe and support CR’s work; same thing as I do for the Red Cross, and I do not work for the Red Cross, either. Nothing unusual here. Making charitable donations and reading things that interest one, that’s exercising one’s freedom of choice, that’s the American Way, I believe. Well, part of it at least.

Getting worked up and personal about nothing at all, that is just a waste of energy. With me, at least.

Consequently, that is my last word on this.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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samak

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OscarCP wrote:

?: “Very defensive with respect to Consumer Reports. Do you work for them?”

Am I being defensive? Do I work for CR?

I am not defending anything, just explaining what I do: subscribe and support CR’s work; same thing as I do for the Red Cross, and I do not work for the Red Cross, either. Nothing unusual here. Making charitable donations and reading things that interest one, that’s exercising one’s freedom of choice, that’s the American Way, I believe. Well, part of it at least.

Getting worked up and personal about nothing at all, that is just a waste of energy. With me, at least.

Consequently, that is my last word on this.

@OscarCP The comment by the anonymous poster at #2437765 was not in response to your post, but was in reply to @Kathy-Stevens at #2437727.

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I can see this now: you are quite right, KP. I’ll be more careful and pay more attention to the relative widths of successive comments in a nested sub-thread.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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GDR

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anonymous wrote:

Very defensive with respect to Consumer Reports.  Do you work for them?

The feel-good-index towards protecting the own market is rising, so it seems; very much becoming PRtalk (pointed to only a few aspects of I.T.-defends).
Where are the French, German, UnitedKindom or even the Israeli testresults, combined with the various SIEM-techniques?

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GDR

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Fred: It is not entirely clear to me, but if you are referring to Consumer Reports, it is a USA publication dedicated to consumer items made and, or sold (emphasis on sold) in the USA. So it has quite a bit on foreign cars, for example. And it presents its own results, in the form of ratings, essentially from “good” to “bad”, from consumer surveys and their own lab tests of all manner of items, including cars. It has been in publication since 1936.

For those unfamiliar with CR who might want to understand what all this is about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports

Excerpt:

“Consumer Reports, formerly Consumers Union(CU), is an American nonprofit consumer organization dedicated to independent product testing, investigative journalism, consumer-oriented research, public education, and consumer advocacy.”

As part of its consumer advocacy, it has pushed for better food safety, better car safety technology, better product pricing practices and the like. All that in the USA.

It is not perfect, as some previous comments have indicated.

Now, has perhaps this discussion on the reliability of CR’s recommendations on the matter of anti virus software, Kaspersky in particular, covered the topic enough already?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Charlie, GDR

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Well, Kaspersky have discovered a backdoor for malware affecting IIS Exchange servers across Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa tagged ‘SessionManager’:

https://www.kaspersky.com/about/press-releases/2022_kaspersky-discovers-poorly-detected-backdoor-targeting-governments-and-ngos-around-the-globe

I get the feeling that Kaspersky have now quashed conspiracy theories and vindicated themselves, this IS a bad one. No wonder the global economy is slumping when miscreants have had access to all sorts of confidential, valuable and personal data undetected.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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34 computers worldwide is not exactly widespread. Not a word about how the backdoor sneaks into servers. But the magic solution is Kaspersky this-that-and-the-other. Smacks of desperation to me.

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samak

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and “some of the backdoor samples were still not flagged as malicious in most popular online file scanning services.”
So some are being flagged as malicious and your current solution might be perfectly adequate. Definitely not enough information in the article to be able to rationally assess the threat but I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

Windows 10 Home 22H2, Acer Aspire TC-1660 desktop + LibreOffice, non-techie

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Fred

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This is a niche exploit of Internet facing Exchange servers and is therefore a major concern for corporates.

AV scanning of IIS modules is not that common because you install the modules as local admin – they are not supposed to be installable by outsiders.

This is a timely reminder of the need to be extra vigilant with internet facing infrastructure.

cheers, Paul

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The vulnerability was patched 16 months ago.

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Earlier this month Kaspersky announced it was suspending vpn service only in the Russian Federation. Kaspersky vpn service remains everywhere else. If Norton were to announce that it was suspending vpn service only in the US, I would be suspicious that Norton was unduly influenced by the US government.  I think the same level of suspicion should be held between Kaspersky and the Russian government.

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wavy, Cybertooth

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BobK wrote:

I think the same level of suspicion should be held between Kaspersky and the Russian government.

I am sure Kaspersky VPN doesn’t work in China (like any other VPN) due to Chinese government demand.

Customers with active subscriptions will continue to enjoy the product’s VPN service until the end of the paid period, which cannot go beyond the end of 2023 (one-year subscription).

The country’s telecommunications watchdog, Roskomnadzor, announced VPN bans in June 2021 and then again in December 2021, prohibiting the use of NordVPN, Express VPN, ProtonVPN, VyprVPN, Opera VPN, PrivateTunnel, and others…”

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/kaspersky-to-kill-its-vpn-service-in-russia-next-week/

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Alex5723 wrote:

I am sure Kaspersky VPN doesn’t work in China (like any other VPN) due to Chinese government demand.

And your point is?

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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wavy wrote:

And your point is?

My point is that every country is entitled to its own rules, including blocking VPNs, and Kaspersky suspending VPN in Russia isn’t news; especially after all other VPN services were suspended.

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