Is Windows 10 Home ‘good enough’ for the Surface Pro 6?

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I can’t believe that Microsoft has convinced otherwise sane industry pundits to parrot this drivel. No. Windows 10 Home isn’t good enough for anybody
[See the full post at: Is Windows 10 Home ‘good enough’ for the Surface Pro 6?]

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Elly, Raptor007, Great Lake Bunyip, lurks about, GreatAndPowerfulTech, WildBill

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Depends, if your buying for a home PC or personal use. Home is fine for users like that, if your planning any business use Pro is required. I think Microsoft tried to keep the price down by not installing Pro. But hey, at least it doesn’t have 10S mode anymore.

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Do you actually think that pro costs Microsoft more than home?  If this was HP yes they are trying to keep the costs down but Microsoft probably doesn’t sell their OS to themselves.  All Microsoft PCs should come with the bast Microsoft can offer OS/Office.  Microsoft should call that a feature and an extra selling point.

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Home is not good for home users.   You have no ability to easily push off updates.  Everyone should have Pro as a base.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Elly, BobbyB, Raptor007, Great Lake Bunyip, Bluetrix, AlexEiffel, woody, Ascaris, lurks about, Seff, radosuaf, Microfix

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…and you don’t have the Group Policy editor. Which wasn’t an issue until W10 arrived, but now became a must-have.

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Elly, Raptor007, Great Lake Bunyip, zero2dash, AlexEiffel

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I agree with you about Group Policy. I have found that at least some of my settings don’t stick unless I set them in Group Policy. I’m thinking specifically of the sleep settings. I disable sleep on my customers’ W10 computers, so that I can remote in anytime that it is needed, because if the computer is asleep, you can’t get to it remotely. If I disable sleep the normal way (via Control Panel / Power Settings), it reverts back to going to sleep after 8 hours of inactivity. However, if I disable sleep via Group Policy, it stays disabled.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Home is Slow Ring Insider quality. It should be free and not for domestic use, just for beta testing.

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I certainly think the decision over which version of any OS to install is very dependent on the use to which the machine is put. I hope the article will distinguish between the different requirements of home and business users, for example, assuming that the distinction is a fair one in the case of Windows 10 and that the Home version isn’t rejected regardless of your intended use. As I don’t use Windows 10 I wouldn’t know, but as a home user who might have to upgrade to it one day I’d certainly not want to fork out a load of money unnecessarily on enhanced versions intended for business users, whilst if I went for the basic default version I’d want to know that it was going to be functional for my domestic purposes. I await the article with interest!

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The key is controlling when updates are done. Home does not give the user any real, safe, reliable control while Pro does. Home is the alpha test version foisted on the clueless. As a group, Home users are the least computer savvy and this the least likely to understand what is going or understand blogs like this one. So you have alpha testers who have no competence as testers trying to figure out why the computer does not work and how to fix it. With Pro you might delay the installation until 10 gets to a betaish stage and is not early alpha stage.

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Elly, Raptor007, Seff

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+ With the Home version, you have to fight to control updates with few means to delay/stop them outside of third party apps.
+ And I don’t think the Home version has the ability to connect to domains. So it would not be easy for IT departments to have control of the updating/ program content /security of the machine.

Both of these thing alone make the Home version unsuitable for business. But, then, businesses will probably fork over the extra $99.99 to at least upgrade to Pro.

The “under $1000 price is still a come-on. It just leaves the consumers in the lurch again, adding to Microsoft’s growing number of Beta Testers, if they don’t pay additional for the upgrade.

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Microfix, WildBill

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You are correct sir. Home edition will not work on a domain. Perhaps I should say you can’t join a domain with home edition.

Red Ruffnsore

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Great Lake Bunyip

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I was able to see a 900 dollar desktop computer with some similar hardware, folks willfully (or not) buying into the Surface should be getting some kind of Windows ultimate edition for the same amount of money. These Surface fad gadgets are supposed to be a premium product?

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I know I am late to this thread.  I have Win ten home.  What apps/add ons do you all recommend to control Microsoft downloads? Thank you

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I think it’s just part of Microsoft plan to kill windows pro. They’ve cut a lot of stuff from windows pro GPO. Windows pro now come with xbox app and candy crush. I feel they would be happier with just Home and Enterprise versions.  I would be a lot easier for them to sell Enterprise if Pro didn’t exist.

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I find this ultrageous. You spend one or over a thousand dollars on a! supposedly top professional machine that ships an amateur OS and you have to pay even more in order just to block updates with below zero quality.One word for Microsoft: N  O !

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A friend of mine’s old mac book air died on her and she was looking for a replacement. She knew I was knowledgeable in these matters and asked me if she should get a MS Surface (she was considering using it for work as well as leisure). I am not a Mac fan at all, and I only use Windows and Android but my recommendation to her was, get a new mac book air, because “friends don’t let friends get MS Surfaces”.

I have to admit she was a little confused with my response but in the end she did get a new mac book air and not the nightmare of a Surface.

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The Surface Pro 6 got a 1 out of 10 on repairability from iFixit:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+6+Teardown/113786

That, plus Windows 10 Home, make the Surface Pro 6 a big fat NO, in my book.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Elly, johnf, BobbyB, Raptor007, Great Lake Bunyip, Ascaris

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It’s another money driven move by Microsoft. They charge $100 per device to upgrade from Home to Pro. I see no technical reason to have downgraded the Surface Pro, that was touted as coming with Windows Pro when released, to Windows 10 Home. Except profit. Now, you need to buy a separate keyboard, pen and Windows 10 Pro for $100 each, if you plan to get the most out of the device. 

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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Elly, Great Lake Bunyip, Ascaris

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I believe using Home is okay as long as you learn how to control updates, However controling updates isn’t an issue at all, since when I was using windows 7 I had automatic updates turned on and  I didn’t had a single issue.

I believe that the real issue are the newest updates which can truly mess up your user experience, since they aren’t tested like before.

Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.

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Thanks to the cuts being made to Win 10 Pro’s usability, MS should be pushing Surface 6 Pro’s Windows up to Enterprise, not down to Home.

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Elly

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Hint; It’s because M$ needs Win 10 Home beta-testers for the new Surface devices.

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Elly, Raptor007, JCCWsusser

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Home is not good for home users.

I gotta say I couldn’t help but chuckle a bit to read that. And coming from Susan that is quite a powerful statement for everyone to make note of.

Red Ruffnsore

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Elly, Great Lake Bunyip

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Duh, XP Home wasn’t good for home users either, but at least it was less bad than w10 Home.

I mean, simple thing, games for the children… games only ran with admin rights on XP Home. On XP Pro, Power User was sufficient. And giving all the kids admin rights just was never very reasonable – have to have enough isolation to not have them accidentally wipe each others’ files and settings…

Windows 7, pretty much the same thing.

But 10 Home … depending on what hardware and drivers you may have, you may need to have admin rights to be able to log in. (Seems to be at least some AMD GPU drivers.)

The environment where the deficiencies of the Home editions give the least trouble, is very small businesses, and maybe possibly some students.

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I think respectfully that lots of people got it backward. What is outrageous is not that Surface doesn’t come with Pro. It shouldn’t need Pro for a home user and Microsoft just continue to apply its logic with their head in the sand regarding update issues.

What is outrageous is that now you need Pro to protect yourself from some of the worst issues with Windows 10 while you could happily run Home before if you didn’t need to join a domain. Now, Home is not good for anyone, because nobody should have to be a forced beta tester.

Now you need group policies to protect yourself a bit from forced updates and to prevent some settings from being reset after each feature upgrades.

So now, you need to pay more, while being monetized more than with Windows 7 or 8.1, to get even less control than with the previous Windows edition, Pro being the new Home while Enterprise or Education are the one where you can be more serious about working with your computer. Someone is making a lot more money in more than one ways and can afford to loose some customers, it seems. That’s outrageous for those who pay more with their time, their money and personal data.

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Elly, johnf, MrJimPhelps, Raptor007, wdburt1

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Home is not good for home users. You have no ability to easily push off updates. Everyone should have Pro as a base.

By default it’s true Home Edition lacks the provision to delay attacks … apologies, I mean updates. I have installed a program on my Home Edition of Windows10 to push off/stop updates ’till I am ready. Since it’s installation, this machine has been powered on 24/7.

So far not a nibble from the update monster that lurks under the hood. I’m a computer user for all the standard reasons + a few tweaks to make my computing environment enjoyable. Using the “metered” trick didn’t work for me at all to delay updates.

I should have known when Microsoft offered Windows10 for free something was up. It took a year but I caved under the threats it would cost to upgrade later. Well, I upgraded for free and it is still costing.

What is one of your favorite sayings Susan, “If you don’t pay for something, you are the product.”

Edit to add: I am going to opine that one of your remaining “Days of Paranoia” will be on Microsoft itself 🙂

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Bluetrix wrote:

I have installed a program on my Home Edition of Windows10 to push off/stop updates ’till I am ready. Since it’s installation, this machine has been powered on 24/7.

What is the name of the program you installed?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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“What is the name of the program you installed?”

http://greatis.com/blog/stopupdates10

Installed 10/21/2018  computer on 24/7, no updates … yet

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@Bluetrix, is that program you use this: windows-update-blocker
On further curious investigation, it looks like they have also released a Windows 10 settings blocker which apparently works on W10 Home editions also, looks interesting: win10-settings-blocker-v1
Haven’t tried the settings blocker oh and..I have no association with Sordium whatsoever etc..

If debian is good enough for NASA...

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Microfix wrote:

@bluetrix, is that program you use this: windows-update-blocker On further curious investigation, it looks like they have also released a Windows 10 settings blocker which apparently works on W10 Home editions also, looks interesting: win10-settings-blocker-v1 Haven’t tried the settings blocker oh and..I have no association with Sordium whatsoever etc..

Not that one, http://greatis.com/blog/stopupdates10 would be the one. Frustrating trying to find something like that program, that works right out of the gate. So far it is doing as advertised.

Almost every website I looked at that said : “Here’s how to block updates in Windows10″ led you down a dead end path. No matter how many times you specify Home edition they still offer Pro edition advice.

I haven’t looked around Sordium’s site, there’s a whole bunch of stuff on it, gotta check it out. I do not work for/with them either.

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MrJimPhelps, Microfix

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Paying them to upgrade to Pro only rewards the anti-consumer behavior.

Don’t buy Pro just to avoid being a beta tester. Use one of the third-party update blockers.

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numike wrote:

I know I am late to this thread. I have Win ten home. What apps/add ons do you all recommend to control Microsoft downloads? Thank you

See  post-226639 for one suggestion.

 

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If you think this is something to complain about, just wait until all new Surface Pro models come standard with the “S” editions. Right now, an upgrade from Windows S to Windows Pro is free, but only for a limited time.

Note that some devices will only go from Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Home, leaving you with the same issues posted here.

The consensus I am reading here is that if the Windows 10 updating process were brought under some semblance of quality control, then Windows 10 home would be good enough for most folks. As long as you don’t need to connect to a domain for work.

-- rc primak

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rc primak wrote:

If you think this is something to complain about, just wait until all new Surface Pro models come standard with the “S” editions. Right now, an upgrade from Windows S to Windows Pro is free, but only for a limited time.

“S” is a Mode, not an Edition. Switching out of S Mode will always be free:

There’s no charge to switch out of S mode.
Windows 10 in S mode FAQ

Even if you purchase a PC in S Mode, you can leave S Mode for free. It doesn’t cost anything,
What is Windows 10 in S Mode?

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I’m still skeptical. There may come a time when switching out of S-Mode will no longer be free. I just do not trust Microsoft’s word on this, as with many other things they say.

Some devices are not capable of running full Windows. These devices are permanently locked in S-Mode. I would argue that this means that S-Mode is actually a separate edition, whatever the official Microsoft labeling says. But for now, I guess the “distinction without a difference” is technically correct.

-- rc primak

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rc primak wrote:

I’m still skeptical. There may come a time when switching out of S-Mode will no longer be free. I just do not trust Microsoft’s word on this, as with many other things they say.

Here’s the guy you can sue:

“If a customer does want to switch out of S mode, they will be able to do so at no charge, regardless of edition.”
By Joe Belfiore / Corporate Vice President, Windows

Windows 10 in S Mode coming soon to all editions of Windows 10

rc primak wrote:

Some devices are not capable of running full Windows. These devices are permanently locked in S-Mode. I would argue that this means that S-Mode is actually a separate edition, whatever the official Microsoft labeling says. But for now, I guess the “distinction without a difference” is technically correct.

There are NO such devices. “S” is a mode, NOT an edition.

The switch has been possible and free since S Mode was first introduced 18 months ago:

Microsoft introduced a new Windows experience called Windows 10 S

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Here’s where the idea that switching from S Mode to full Windows costs money came from:

Windows 10 Pro customers with S Mode enabled on their device will be forced to pay $49 to get access to a full version of Windows 10 Pro.

Microsoft ditches Windows 10 S in favor of new ‘S Mode’
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/3/16968024/microsoft-windows-10-s-mode-editions-features

That’s also the time frame (early 2018) when Microsoft changed their labeling of S Mode from separate editions to just a “mode” of the existing editions.

Then things changed again:

Leaving S Mode is free. Before Windows 10 in S Mode, there was Windows 10 S. Microsoft planned to charge $50 to switch from Windows 10 S to a standard desktop edition of Windows 10.

However, Microsoft relented on these plans, and Windows 10 S is gone. With Windows 10 in S Mode, leaving this mode is free.

How to Leave Windows 10’s S Mode
https://www.howtogeek.com/360007/how-to-leave-windows-10s-s-mode/

Also, the How To geek article does indicate this:

If you have a Windows 10 on ARM device, leaving S Mode will let you run any 32-bit Windows desktop application—but many applications will be very slow. If you’re using a Windows 10 PC with a standard Intel or AMD chip, you don’t need to worry about this.

So yes, you can leave S Mode on ARM devices, but performance of full Win32 apps will be very, very slow. And 64-bit Windows apps may not run at all. That’s an ARM hardware limitation, not an inability to leave S Mode, technically. But it has a similar effect. Leaving S Mode in some ARM based devices is really not a viable option.

So, will Microsoft change their minds again, and charge money for the switch at some future time? No one knows for sure. It’s all moot if Windows becomes a Cloud Service with subscriptions for everyone.

If we want, we could break out a new thread about S Mode. But I think the topic in this thread is supposed to be focused on Windows 10 Home, full edition.

-- rc primak

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