Is virtualization right for you?

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ON SECURITY By Susan Bradley With any major change from one OS version to another, such as the leap from Windows 10 to 11, I determine whether to keep
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Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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rc primak, Perq, willjs atx, abbodi86, Lars220, fisher75, windbg, DLivesInTexas, lmacri

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I’ve been using virtual os machines for my personal pc for over a decade now, Susan.   I primary do so as a sandbox to protect my main OS since recovery point recovery literally only take seconds.   Have laughed at several drive by infections over the years too.   I don’t trust any anti-virus program even though I do run one on the main OS (but not my VM).   The only thing this strategy doesn’t protect you from is keyloggers; I mitigate that threat by often recovering to my golden set point.  Cool thing is once recovered, anything that happened after that setpoint recovery date is as if it never happened.   I was first introduced to this concept when I was working on a local school pc and saw they used a program called Deep Freeze.   My boss also sold a virtualizer card (en lieu of knowing the exact name since I cannot recall the name of the card or company) that you inserted in the ISA slot that functioned the exact same way as my fading memory recalls.   For these systems, once you reboot, you automatically recovered to the golden set point.   You had special designated drives to store just your date, of course.   Seeing so many customers get infected with computer viruses even though they, at that time, were using the best anti-virus programs, imo (NOD32) and still get infected, I said to myself there’s got to be a better way, and once I discovered Deep Freeze, I found my answer:   Virtualization.    Type this now in my XP VM by the way (my personal sandbox).  Even within this XP VM, I’m running Sandboxie (now open source) so I’m double-sandboxed (yes; a bit paranoid; lol).   🙂

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Sueska

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@lylejk Was that recovery card called Boomerang by any chance? The last OS supported by these cards was Windows XP. Could never find a recovery card that worked with Windows 7. I still use Deep Freeze. Purchased a new license to use with Windows 11. I also use virtualbox for running a few linux distros.

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Again, do not recall the maker of the card (what my boss was selling customers back then; I was just installing them when he got a sell; didn’t sell too many as I recall).  Yes; last time was in the PC business, WinXP was king.   lol

Deep Freeze is just too good a program to have died so glad it’s still being used.  🙂

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Sueska

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I’ve been using VMware to run Win 7 to allow me to continue to use my HP flatbed scanner, as there is no software from HP for my scanner for Win 10. This was before VMware changed hands, as the new regime has made it damb near impossible to jump through their various hoops & roadblocks, to find & download the latest version of VMware for Windows/Linux.
So I have moved over to VirtualBox. I had to view a YouTube video to install the guest system, as it (for ME) is pretty non-intuitive, this on a stand-by Ubuntu system. My daily driver machine is a 12-core Ryzen with 32 g ram. & all ssd, on an ASUS Mobo.
Thanks, Swordfish

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I first discovered virtualization in 2005, and became so infatuated with it that I even created a web-page touting its coolness. I’ve been dual-booting since the mid-1980’s, when I began dual-booting two instances of DOS 3.3 (on a 20MB hard disk!) to separate my personal environment from my work environment), but virtualization is so much cooler and more convenient.

My platform of choice is VirtualBox, and I have over two dozen virtual machines running everything from DOS to Win 10, a handful of linux installations, and even a couple Android versions.

 

lylejk wrote:

… recovering to my golden set point.  Cool thing is once recovered, anything that happened after that setpoint recovery date is as if it never happened.   I was first introduced to this concept when I was working on a local school pc and saw they used a program called Deep Freeze.

Deep Freeze was a great program! Microsoft later copied that idea with their own variation, Windows SteadyState, during the XP and Vista era. Back then, I supported a real estate office that had a bank of computers in a common area for the use of their real estate agents, and they would constantly get messed up. Daily reboots would reset each machine to its fixed SteadyState configuration, eliminating any viruses or unauthorized software the users would try to install.

 

swordfish wrote:

I’ve been using VMware to run Win 7 to allow me to continue to use my HP flatbed scanner, as there is no software from HP for my scanner for Win 10.

Yes, that’s a great use for VMs. Likewise, I use a XP VM in VirtualBox for an old, early-2000’s transparency scanner (for photographic slides and negatives), for which software was never updated.

 

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Lars220

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This might be a very basic question, but I’m wondering if a virtual machine can be used in the opposite direction from what has been described here?

Let’s say I’ve never updated to Win10. Maybe I was/am totally happy with Win7, I never liked the “pushiness” of the Win10 rollout, and (most importantly) I have software I use regularly that may or may not work on newer Windows versions. But, Win7 is obviously losing support in other ways. For example, I got an e-mail the other day telling me that Dropbox will stop working on Win7 in the near future.

So, can I create a Win10 virtual machine on my Win7 computer to test if software currently installed on the Win7 computer will run under Win10? Once the Win10 VM is running, would I install the software in the VM or can you access files/programs already on the computer from the VM? If software worked without issue in the Win10 VM, would that be good evidence that it would work on a computer running stand-alone Win10? Thanks.

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Here are some things you should consider about running virtual machines:

Your computer hardware has to be capable. Your CPU must be capable of virtualization. Some Win7 machines had CPUs that did not support it. You must have enough RAM to run both computers at the same time (the VM is actually another computer). If you have 8GB RAM, you have to assign (for example) 4GB to the host and 4GB to the VM. How well will Win7 and Win10 run with only 4GB RAM. You also have to have disk storage large enough to support both OSs, with enough additional space to install your programs, data, and have additional free space to operate. Minimum space to support a Win10 VM is around 64GB. Then there is the rest of the hardware on what must be an older computer if it’s running Win7 originally. Then, you have to have a legal Win10 license to install in the VM, just like it was a standalone computer.

You don’t mention the specs of your machine, but I would suggest you do a good deal of research before you move in that direction.

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Lars220

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Thanks. My laptop is indeed old (almost 15) but has been heavily updated and continues to run pretty well: 16 GB RAM (from the original 4 GB), 150 GB free on the (OS) SSD I added and 250 GB free on the (data/stuff) HDD that lives in a drive caddy that replaced the DVD drive, which now resides in an external USB case.

As far as virtualization, I’m not sure if I have that capability. I have a first generation i7-720QM CPU. According to ark.intel.com the CPU has: Intel vPro, Intel Virtualization Technology (VT-x), Intel Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d), and Intel VT-x with Extended Page Tables (EPT). Does that tell me anything?

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ASW wrote:

can I create a Win10 virtual machine on my Win7 computer to test if software currently installed on the Win7 computer will run under Win10?

Yes.

 

Once the Win10 VM is running, would I install the software in the VM or can you access files/programs already on the computer from the VM?

Treat the VM as a separate computer, and test installing your software on the VM as you would a separate computer. Think of the VM and the host system as two computers (albeit, sharing a single keyboard, mouse, and monitor), and whatever you can or can’t do between two computers, you can or can’t between the VM and host, as well.

For instance, you normally cannot access and run programs installed on one computer from a different computer, so the same is true between a VM and the host computer.

OTOH, you can share data files between two computers on a LAN if you configure network sharing between them. The same holds for sharing files between a host and VM.

(Aside: for those who actually want to practice their networking skills, VMs are a great environment in which to practice without having to invest in multiple machines and finding the consequent desk space for them.)

Networking between host and VM is one way of sharing files, but note there is also another way. Some (most?) virtualization platforms have a built-in function for easily setting up a host-shared folder that the VM can access. That’s basically the same as networking, but doesn’t require the user to understand networking. That allows you to move files back and forth between the VM and the host — remember, as a separate “computer”, a VM won’t otherwise have access to your documents and folders on the host system.

As PKCano cautioned, to play with virtualization you’ll want a decent computer. But if you think of them as separate computers, you can use a simple rule of thumb. For instance, what are the minimum requirements for (in your example) a Win7 computer? What are the minimum requirements for a Win10 computer? Add those together, and that’s a good rule of thumb for the minimum requirements for your combined host+VM computer. Of course, more than the minimum is always better, but that should give you a starting point.

BTW, don’t overlook PKCano’s licensing comment. It’s kind of important. As it’s a separate “computer”, a VM would need its own Windows license. The COA sticker that came with your computer applies to the host machine, not a VM.

 

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Thanks for this useful information.

Sounds like I might have some educational hours the next time I get a rainy Saturday. Am I correct that a trial version of Win10 could be used for testing? I don’t really want to buy a license only to find out that I don’t want to upgrade.

Alternatively, I may give Linux another try as well. I was reading the other day that some distros have more/new capabilities to run Windows-based software. I’ve been looking at Zorin OS. I have no real love for Microsoft plus I’m too lazy to find and learn new software for a few regular tasks that I do. If the few important Windows-based software packages I use can run in Linux that would be good enough for me.

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ASW wrote:

Am I correct that a trial version of Win10 could be used for testing? I don’t really want to buy a license only to find out that I don’t want to upgrade.

Alternatively, I may give Linux another try as well.

Yes, without a license key Win10 will still work for an evaluation period (though I don’t remember how long … I’m sure someone else here will know).

 

ASW wrote:

My laptop is indeed old (almost 15) but has been heavily updated and continues to run pretty well: 16 GB RAM (from the original 4 GB), 150 GB free on the (OS) SSD I added and 250 GB free on the (data/stuff) HDD that lives in a drive caddy that replaced the DVD drive, which now resides in an external USB case.

Your laptop will support VirtualBox (and probably VMWare, as well, though I have no recent experience what that platform). The system requirements to run VirtualBox are not very onerous, but it’s the guest OSes you want to run inside the VMs that are the more determining factor.

For Win10 evaluation purposes, you shouldn’t need to dedicate more than about 40-50 GB of your SSD’s space to the VM, so with your space it should be doable. You could put your VM’s virtual disk file on your secondary HDD, but it will run slower because it’s not a SSD and because the transfer bus, being intended for a slower DVD drive, may not be SATA-III.

Linux requirements are generally less demanding than Windows, so if you’re toying with the idea of linux you may want to consider trial running linux as a guest OS in a VirtualBox VM on your laptop.  It should work well enough to give you time to play around and get used to it or to trial different distros before deciding to commit to one as a Win7 replacement for your laptop.

Note that the latest version of VirtualBox may not install on Win7, but older versions (6.1 and earlier) will still work fine. I’m not sure if other virtualization platforms still support Win7 as host, but it’s probably similar.

 

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VirtualBox documentation at https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch01.html#hostossupport indicates that Windows 7 is not a supported host OS.

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The online documentation corresponds only with the latest version, VirtualBox 7, and states that Win7 is not supported as a host. “Not supported” doesn’t always mean “will not install”, so that’s why I hedged my comment as “the latest version of VirtualBox may not install on Win7″. (I haven’t tried it, so can’t say for sure one way or the other.)

Nevertheless, VirtualBox versions 5 and I believe 6 will install on Win7, and work absolutely fine. There is no reason you have to use version 7, and I would have no hesitation using 5 or 6 if you’re using a Win7 host, as is ASW.

 

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For what it s worth the VirtualBox Changelogs indicate which versions are no longer supported.  For example, any branch earlier than 6.1 is out of support –

Windows 7 is not a supported host in the still supported 6.1 branch.  I did not check whether earlier branches supported a Windows 7 host.

Its up to the individual to decide what to install on their systems.  But what I have posted are the facts.  Maybe it will work out, maybe not.  I have no way of knowing.

But at least an informed decision can be made.

 

 

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Hi Susan, very curious if you or anyone else in this form has tried to virtualize windows server 2003 SBS. I have a dell power edge 2800 That’s using an old accounting system, much like your client’s case and I just am looking for a path forward. The server has still been working for 20 years due to high parts availability.

Will J Stewart
Independent IT 25 years
Austin, Texas

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Yes.  Disk2vhd will work for this.  I originally did it YEARS ago to practice migration from one version of SBS to another.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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VirtualBox 7.1.2

Changelog

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windbg

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