Is it time to abandon Windows?

Topic

New Reply

Is it time to give up on Windows? I think that this discussion is best housed here, rather than Non-Microsoft OSes. My interest is more in the opinions of others about the pros and cons of giving up on Windows 7, rather than where to go after giving up on it.

I will admit to being a compu-geezer, dating back to the original PC. I have been thoroughly spoiled. Did you know that the technical manual for the first IBM PC contained full commented source code for the operating system? No Secret Black Boxes from Redmond back then! The user could program and use the computer as if he ACTUALLY OWNED the thing! Sure, if I locked out other interrupts too long in my interrupt service routines, the system clock might miss counting a tick or two. I accepted that I might cause myself problems by having the control I had, but it was precisely that control which allowed me to quickly and easily solve really complex problems! Putting your own electronics on the system buss was almost trivially easy! Now that the operating system has undergone so much “improvement”, I have to do a research project just to find out how to access my own data files!

My new H-P computer came with Win7 installed. As I have attempted to use it, I have encountered a blizzard of “Denied” and “Prohibited” and “Locked” and their synonyms. I have spent over two hours in the Lounge reading post after post from users who are frustrated by having been stripped of control of the computers they OWN by Bill’s Latest and Greatest. I have found a plethora of registry edits, widgets, gadgets, work arounds, Power Toys, scripts, unlockers, and on and on and on ad infinitum. There are even posters on this site telling that THEY KNOW what I “need” to use my computer. What colossal arrogance!

I would dearly love to see these folks invest a pile of their money in a swank new Audi or BMW, only to find that it comes with wonderful new “driver protection features” which halt the car and announce that your attempt to drive down a certain street is “denied”. After all, the car maker KNOWS which streets you really “need” to go down! The driver is left to finding detailed street maps and trying as many different alternate routes as required before he can drive to his desired destination. The wonderful new Win7 does everything it can to limit you to Microsoft Approved Destinations! Aren’t you just loving your new Microsoft Smart Car?

It is becoming clear that I will need to spend many hours of my time collecting the knowledge and tools to defeat, disable, or bypass these wonderful new attempts by Microsoft to save me from myself. That is, should I want to use my new computer as if it were actually mine to use as I see fit. At some point, the rational choice is to abandon the application of endless amounts of lipstick to this pig, and pursue finding a PC operating system which has not been “improved” right out of being useful. I would be most interested in the views of others as to where they think this point is located.

Reply | Quote

Replies

Bob

As a fellow compu-geezer I do feel your pain. I spent my first week disabling all those enhancements just to get a usable system. On those particularly frustrating days I opt to boot into Ubuntu just for same relief.

I just wonder, is there any other choice. I must use MS at work and be intimately familiar with it.

Ken J

Reply | Quote

I don’t see this necessarily as an anoyance, but more as a challenge to quickly overcome. There is some very good reasoning
behind all of this, as the last decades’ security environment will attest to. We happen to use the very same operating systems
the myriad of completely and utterly computer illiterate use all over the world right now, and coming from the same
company that brought computing to the masses in the first place.
So if you prefer Mac or Linux, then by all means, use them and spare the whine. I know they’re by no means better.

Spending a week or two getting to know the ins and out’s of any new system is not a big deal. As long
as there are places where information flows and people are engaged in discussion, as there always is.
Work can get done and s**** gets itself sorted out…no thanks to Microsoft’s very poor documentation.

We are inherently lazy creatures constantly looking to be gratified with a quick fix, in reality there are seldom any.
So deal with it. Suck it up, and move on. Frustration is the toiling of a lessar man,

but sarcasm’s OK.

Reply | Quote

Thanks Clint!!!

Yes, Win 7 takes a short while to get accustomed to. MS has finally developed a system that, as Clint states, allows the masses to enjoy their PCs while still maintaining some modicrum of security and stability. Yes, any operating system will need customizing to suit a users needs. Can you imagine how many versions of an OS would be needed to work as anyone would want it to from the box, and the cost. Give me a break. Spend the couple of days getting to know the OS and customizing it the way you want it. The way you want it is most likely totally different than the way I want it, or Clint want’s it.

If you want to abandon ship just because it takes you a couple of days to make the OS work how you need it to work, then do so and stop whinning about it. Then when you finally decide on which OS you want to change to, you can spend your time whinning about how long it takes to finally get the new OS to operate the way you need it to work in that OS forum.

Reply | Quote

Sounds like you want a chance to enter data via the toggle switches at the front of a PDP-8 minicomputer – there you have Total Control of the User Experience!

BATcher

Plethora means a lot to me.

Reply | Quote

My interest is more in the opinions of others about the pros and cons of giving up on Windows 7

Hey guys,

Don’t you think there are more constructive ways to greet a first time poster in the Lounge than with sarcasm? It would be much more profitable to reply to his statement at the beginning of his post.

Some of the statements made have been rude and discourteous and as such are a violation of Lounge Rule 9.
Please clean it up.

Thanks

Reply | Quote

Hey guys,

Don’t you think there are more constructive ways to greet a first time poster in the Lounge than with sarcasm? It would be much more profitable to reply to his statement at the beginning of his post.

Thanks

No I don’t. Remember he came in looking for an “argument”. Ok maybe that’s too strong a term, but how else are we to respond? I agree with Clint and the others who say that if you don’t like it, leave it. As others have said, Bill Gates brought computers to the masses. I might add that he risked his time and money. He deserves the rewards. I don’t like a lot of what Microsoft does but if you play their game, abide by their rules. Way back when, Bill Gates offered IBM the opportunity to take his operating platform and run with it. But they said no thanks. Commodore had the opportunity to rule, but they just wanted the gaming area. Apple said hey, we’ll just concentrate on schools and graphics and they lost the masses of the business world. Linux is great but no one entity is totally in charge and as a result it has no single driving force to make it the leading platform. Linux pretty much follows what Microsoft brings to the table. I would love to go to Linux, but it’s too hard to learn and not very compatible when compared to Windows.

BTW… I think we should drop Bill Gates name from Microsoft since he really is no longer is involved except in name only.

Reply | Quote

Is it time to give up on Windows? . My interest is more in the opinions of others about the pros and cons of giving up on Windows 7

Hi Bob and welcome to the Lounge!

As has already been stated by the others here, any move to the latest version of Windows is going to involve some growing pains. However, there are some very good benefits to working with Windows 7 that make it well worthwhile.

First, it is the best Microsoft OS out of the box. The release of Windows 7 marked the first time since Windows 95 that I have jumped on a new MS OS as soon as it was publicly released to consumers. For all others I have waited for the first service pack. While Windows 7 is less than perfect, it is a great step forward for MS and for Windows users.

Windows is more secure now than it has ever been. I dare say that if Mac and Linux had equal market shares to Wiindows, their vulnerabilities would become much more obvious to everyone. People determined to break something have always been able to find a way. The only ingredient they need is a good and/or profitable reason to do so.

I have tried several Linux distros, and for the most part I have enjoyed them, but I would not abandon Windows for any of them. They come with their own set of challenges, and I never liked the emulators required to run some of the Windows software. I found there are just so many things that keep me from jumping to Linux. Where Linux really shines are in some of the great tools for fixing things on Windows installations via LiveCD!

I have an iMac, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I like it much better than any Linux distro I have used, and while it may offend some Linux lovers, OS X is obviously a cousin to Linux, howbeit a much more polished OS. That said, I find Snow Leopard’s Finder file explorer more aggravating to use than any of the Windows Explorers I have used since Windows 98. Again, Windows remains my platform of choice for most chores.

Some have decided to stick with XP until it goes down in flames. I will probably continue to use XP until 2014 on a dual boot system with Windows 7, but Windows 7 is my primary.
And I really don’t care to comment about Vista.

As long as Windows remains the standard for the majority of the business and personal computing world, I would never consider abandoning it for something else. Hopefully, the Vista chapter has taught MS some valuable long term lessons, and we will see continual improvements in their flagship OS in the years to come. IMO Windows 7 is a good start toward that becoming a reality.

Hope this helps.

Reply | Quote

Is it time to give up on Windows? I think it completely depends on what you use Windows for, and if there is an alternative that better suites your needs with a smaller learning curve. From the feedback I’ve read/heard from others, Windows 7 is the most stable version of Windows they’ve used, and it’s been, for the most part, a positive experience. For others who like to tinker under the hood, it is a little more frustrating.

A few things to keep in mind though. A few hours spent to learn and tweak the system to your liking is really no more than you would probably spend learning the ins and outs of a new car. And while I see your point with the analogy of the car, I think that it would be fair to say that, ‘under the hood’ most new cars have grown just as complex as the Windows 7 OS. It would take me hours of research, new tools, and help from others to learn to do all the things on my new car that I could do in minutes on my old car.

Best of luck!

Cheers,

Nathan

Reply | Quote

Welcome to the forum Bob, and I Apologies for me bluntness.
I do have my opinions

Reply | Quote

Norm,

As I posted before, there are more constructive ways to reply. I see Bob’s remarks as more frustration than looking for an argument. There are many ways for one to courteously reply with an opinion.

Reply | Quote

Norm,

As I posted before, there are more constructive ways to reply. I see Bob’s remarks as more frustration than looking for an argument. There are many ways for one to courteously reply with an opinion.

You’re right. Like I said it was perhaps too strong a word. And yes I could feel his frustration.

Bob, my apology.

Reply | Quote

Hi Bob, welcome to the lounge.

I think what got everyone’s dander up was the title as much as anything. We are here attempting to help everyone’s experience with Windows (in my case Win 7) be more rewarding and productive. Stating in the title should we just drop windows is counterproductive to what the lounge is all about. And lets face it, any OS requires a learning curve. Bob, I hope you do not abandon ship and jump to another OS because, in my opinion, there is not a better one out there than Win 7, period. I am part of the masses, and although not a novice, my experience and knowledge of windows is entirely self-learned. I do not work in the PC industry, but feel as though I do because of the numbers of people that do ask questions of me when they get into trouble. Yes I like to tinker under the hood. That’s why I spend so much time here and in other forums learning what I can.

Bob, take the time and enjoy the experience. You will love it!

Reply | Quote

Hi Bob,

Your rant reminds me of what I felt when I upgraded from one version of Ubuntu to the next and realized that KDE 3.5 was replace by KDE 4. 3.5 was wonderful – I could configure it to work exactly how I wanted and I was very productive in it. KDE 4 was horrible; none of the features that I had come to rely on in 3.5 were present. Things that used to be easy were either difficult or impossible. The KDE developers had somehow managed to out-Vista Vista! I reluctantly moved to Gnome and found it functional but not as good as KDE 3.5. What made it even worse is that when I went on the Linux forums looking for answers, the KDE developers pretty much said that they knew better than the people who were using their computers, and we were stuck with the new functionality because the old functionality was somehow “wrong”. Such arrogance! (Moral of the story: arrogance is not limited to Microsoft. And don’t get me started on Apple and its dictatorial powers over the iPhone…)

I too have been using computers forever. My first program was on punch cards which I submitted to a time sharing system. My first “PC” was an Atari 800 (8K RAM! WOW!). I have been using Windows since version 2.11, and NT since 3.1. I started using XP when it was in beta and ditched 2000 on all my systems as soon as XP was released. And I did suffer conversion pains – XP was not 2000 and I gradually changed my thinking and habits to match the new system. I recall my consternation with the “Program Files” and “Documents and Settings” directories and the fights with apps that could not handle spaces in directory names. And there was the issue that XP’s text search did not search all files. So I adjusted. I have also used Win7 since the beta. Yes, it is not XP, and thankfully it is not entirely Vista. (But heck, there are even things about Vista that I miss in Win7.) But by learning how to best make use of the features provided in Win7, and by making some configuration changes here and there, Win7 has become very familiar. Now when I go back to XP, which I occasionally do, XP seems so awkward and I get frustrated when features I have come to rely on in Win7 are not present.

Regarding all of the occurrences of “Denied” etc., I always insist on getting a version of Windows (Professional, Enterprise, Ultimate) in which I can manually change security on files/folders. Changing the ownership and permissions on files and folders gets around most of the “Denied” errors. You also have to recognize that many of the “hidden” directories in your home folder are really just shortcuts so that old programs used to XPs directory layout will still work (so I just ignore those directories). And if the UAC displays really bother you, you can turn UAC off. I usually turn UAC off when I first set up a PC so that it does not annoy me while I install the things I need, but turn it back on after the PC is configured to my liking. Then the UAC popup does not happen all that often.

Reply | Quote

For those who really want to be “stripped of control of the computers they OWN,” get an Apple, and for those who want ultimate control, find one of the hundreds of LINUX distros that fits the user’s personality.

There’s a reason Windows has 90-some percent of the world’s users…its smack dab right in the middle of both extremes and can do the most things, and yet remain understandable, for the most people.

Can anyone imagine the outcry if Win 7 were as “security concious” as XP was when it was first released? We live in different times now and security does not equal ease of use, in fact security and restrictions are diametrically opposed to ease of use, though some would think that UAC for instance, could have just a bit of intelligence and stop asking for the 359th time this year if its ok for me to run my Steam app (STUPID UAC!!).

Reply | Quote

1. Modern computers are vastly more powerful than their predecessors. I think it is reasonable to expect that they will accordingly be more complex, both in their capabilities, and inevitably in the software required to run them.

2. The matter of the manual with the source code is an example of one change that is seldom mentioned and possibly seldom used, and that is hypertext. Source code aside, which is in a world of its own, we no longer have to push wheelbarrows full of big fat manuals to tell us how to run the things.

3. Add the internet to that – which certainly didn’t exist in the era to which allude – and we all have a previously-unimagined volume of computer-searchable information at our fingertips. For anyone who uses knowledge (in a knowledge-based economy) that is a resource of untold value.

4. When a computer goes belly-up, as they all do at least occasionally, one handy gadget is to have a second O/S, such as Ubuntu, available on a flash drive. Add a reader to the same drive, and you will have access to all that hypertext.

Reply | Quote

The time to consider abandoning Windows is when there is an alternative that one can drive down the road and fill up with standard software.

Two key concepts are at play here. One must be able to drive the machine without any significant problems or training. Sorta like being able to get into any typical automobile and drive it successfully. Sure it will be different and it might be bigger or better or faster or smoother than the rest of the autos out there but all the important stuff will be obvious and any half way capable driver can operate it without any problems.

The second important concept is that one must be able to drive it into any filling station and get all the important supplies.

In the early days of the automobile, the above two concepts were not common. Even today, an 18 wheeler might be beyond the capabilities of a typical driver but the normal passanger car can be driven any typical driver and there is no problem getting supplies. That’s because the user interface is relatively standard and all cars use the same supplies.

When a few enterprising companies start producing an OS that will run any Windows (or at least ‘standard’) software and accept any driver that conforms to the ‘standard’ we will have some alternatives to Windows. Some may be bigger or better or faster or smoother but any capable operator can run any of them and they all can run the same software.

We don’t have to know how the internals of a computer work any more than we have to know how the engine or transmission of a car works. There will always be some who want to know, just as there are some who want to know about the internals of an car so they can try to super charge it. Most of us however are satisfied to buy a suitable car and use it as designed.

Reply | Quote

Let me get to the core of what the original post seems to be saying. It is about the lack of administrator privileges in the Windows 7 Standard Account.

By default, in all versions of Windows 7, you do not log into an Administrator Account. That (Administrator) Account has all the privileges which the Standard Account lacks, but you have to create a special account to have access to full Administrator privileges. This differs from all previous versions of Windows, in which there was a default Administrator Account which could be set up when you first set up your Windows computer. (Or, when you upgraded to a new version.) But in Windows 7, unless you go through a few hoops, the account you create is a Standard Account, which lacks full Administrator privileges.

The end result is that, unless you create that special Administrator Account, none of your Windows 7 Accounts will have full Administrator privileges. Hence all these denials and prohibited actions. You should never run Windows 7 as an Administrator unless you are doing updates or other strictly maintenance functions. Normally, running as a Standard User or even as a Limited User (for Internet activities) will be helpful and make you a bit more secure than if you always run with full Administrator privileges. But when you have to make changes not permitted in the Standard User Account, switching to your Administrator Account will give you most if not all the privileges you are seeking. I believe this is true even in the Home Premium version of Windows 7.

Maybe this is not what the rant was about, but that’s the major change between Windows 98 through Wndows XP Professional, and Windows 7. You have to deliberately choose to make one Account a true Administrator Account in Windows 7. It doesn’t happen automatically anymore.

I see no reason to abandon Windows on these grounds. My next laptop will come with Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit pre-installed, and I expect a very positive user experience. And I am a real Windows control-freak — just ask anyone who has seen my postings here in The Lounge.

-- rc primak

Reply | Quote

By default, in all versions of Windows 7, you do not log into an Administrator Account. That (Administrator) Account has all the privileges which the Standard Account lacks, but you have to create a special account to have access to full Administrator privileges. This differs from all previous versions of Windows, in which there was a default Administrator Account which could be set up when you first set up your Windows computer. (Or, when you upgraded to a new version.) But in Windows 7, unless you go through a few hoops, the account you create is a Standard Account, which lacks full Administrator privileges.

The end result is that, unless you create that special Administrator Account, none of your Windows 7 Accounts will have full Administrator privileges. Hence all these denials and prohibited actions. You should never run Windows 7 as an Administrator unless you are doing updates or other strictly maintenance functions. Normally, running as a Standard User or even as a Limited User (for Internet activities) will be helpful and make you a bit more secure than if you always run with full Administrator privileges. But when you have to make changes not permitted in the Standard User Account, switching to your Administrator Account will give you most if not all the privileges you are seeking. I believe this is true even in the Home Premium version of Windows 7.

By default, you get an account named “Administrator” with the Win7 install. At least, I have the “Administrator” account on the systems where I’ve installed Win7. It is the builtin admin account with full adminstrative privileges.

Any user account you create by default is a Standard account. You may add any user account to the administator group. However, this group does NOT have the same privilege level as the builtin Administrator account. No user created account has full administrative privileges. That is why you need “run as administrator” for some activities.

Joe

--Joe

Reply | Quote

Hi,

Another observation.

One of the things that makes linux/unix as secure and robust as they are is the fact that no ordinary user runs as Root. This means that there are certain things you just simply can’t mess up without knowingly inserting a password and moving to the higher privileges. People that administer servers have always embraced this concept as it helped them stay safe from themselves. (Any server admin that has accidental hosed a server on a workday when 250 employees depended on it will know what I am talking about.) Now that Microsoft has accepted the sense of this at a user level, we talk about abandoning them……

Remember, a computer is not a toaster. You can plug a toaster in and forget about it and it will not spam your friends or clean out your bank account and max out your credit cards…..

In this age security and usability must be balanced. For too long we have sacrificed security for usability…..

Just my 2c

Reply | Quote

I just ran across an article that readers of this thread might enjoy.

Reply | Quote

A lot of folks have “given up” Windows already. They bought an Apple laptop or an iPhone or the new iPad, or they bought a really cheap Linux netbook. Google has the Android operating system and will soon have their Chrome OS running on some simple ‘pads or ‘books. Even Microsoft is going to introduce Windows Phone 7 later this year.

I think these simpler devices with simpler OSes will have an impact on desktops and more traditional laptops. I’m impressed with how easy it is now to install and use Ubuntu Linux. The NetBook Remix makes my little Dell mini 9 a very respectable netbook.

I think most of us will become conversant with several operating systems in the near future and that these different platforms will have influences on each other. Microsoft is bound to react to the iPad and Android in their Windows Phone 7 OS.

Be patient. There are a whole lot more irritating details to learn about your new smartphone, whateverPad, tablet, netbook, etc over the next several years.

Reply | Quote

Be patient. There are a whole lot more irritating details to learn about your new smartphone, whateverPad, tablet, netbook, etc over the next several years.

The photo of that ‘registered lounger’ gives us all the context we need. ‘Be patient’ is rather much for certain among us, who shall remain nameless.

The link did, I think, provide food for thought, which was the point of it, especially after such a tempestuous thread.

Reply | Quote

We all tend to get rutted in our habits, some of which are useful, some of which aren’t. My primary “habit” is finding out how things work; I’ve been doing it since I was a kid. Usually the second thing I did with a new toy was to take it apart, examine the mechanisms to see how it worked, then put it back together. I’m still doing that with Windows 7, and quite enjoying it. Many of the security features (like UAC) are quite similar to what I setup in XP. Two accounts in the Administrators Group, one the default and another of my creation, and everyone ran under a password protected Power User account. No one else knew the Administrators Group user account passwords.

As you can see in this link, I have figured out how to get past all those “Access denied” messages and have my way with Windows 7. Naturally it is produced as a basic “one size fits all” operating system, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t make alterations to suit the way we want it to fit. My XP installations are customized and extremely stable.

My sister-in-law is a Mac person, through and through. She was visiting a friend who used a PC, and a problem had developed with the printer; it had a print job pending, and wouldn’t print or delete the pending job. My sister-in-law had applied her skills to no avail, rebooting the PC and even downloading and installing the latest software package for the printer (I don’t recall the name). She called me in desparation for access to my Windows skills. I asked her if she had rebooted the printer, to which she replied, “I thought about that, but there’s no Power button!” I told her to unplug it from the power strip, wait about a minute, then plug it back in. I stayed on the phone while we waited. Shortly I heard the sound of a printer, and a very happy sister-in-law saying, “It’s printing! It’s printing!”

I think we can sometimes make things more complicated than they need to be by not thinking the process through, and giving up too easily. It seems simpler to learn Windows 7 than trying to get Windows 7 to learn XP. Once one learns Windows 7, it becomes simpler to have Windows 7 emulate some of the familiar and favored attributes of XP.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

This is an interesting thread. We often long for the good old days when we could do “xyz” without hindrance. Going back to Chet’s analogy of cars, I’m an old gear head. There was a time when pretty much everything on a car was easy to repair or replace with off the shelf and easy to obtain parts. Moreover, stuff was not too complicated. Speed up to modern times and that’s not as true as it used to be. It takes a good bit of research for a shade tree mechanic to troubleshoot and repair a car. And some things simply cannot be done by the average Joe. That said, I do not long for the “good old days” of 4 wheel drum brakes, lack of crumple zones, having to change points and plugs once a year, and a host of other annoying things. Modern cars are a far cry from what we drove 30, or even 20 years ago. Today’s cars are more powerful, more efficient, safer, more reliable, and more economical. Remember when you hesitated to buy a used car with 50k miles? Now we easily get 200k + from our cars.

In the PC world, as Bob alludes to, there was a time when one had “full control” over every aspect of their machine. But you also had to write your own code, which was often an effort of trial and error. Things didn’t simply “work” without putting a lot of effort into it. Hardware was expensive and not very reliable. Floppy disks, well don’t get me started. And what you could actually do with a computer was limited. In short, home computing was not for the faint of heart. It was a hobbyist pursuit and not very practical for the average person. Today nearly everyone has a PC. Hardware is very reliable and cheap. No one has to write their own code anymore to make things happen. Most things are intuitive and easy to use right out of the box. The things you can do with a computer today are too many to list here. And for those of us who want to “own” our PC, yes, we have to do some research and hone our technical skills. PCs, like cars, are becoming appliances. Most people just want to use them, not know how they work. As such they are designed for the masses, not for the technically inclined.

In no way do I ever look back with any fondness for what we left behind. The few flaws that Windows 7 has are easy to overcome. I have Home Premium on my personal laptop, and Pro on my work machine. I have never encountered such a trouble free PC experience. Bob, if you’re still out there, and you still really believe that it will take you “many hours to collect the knowledge” you seek, then perhaps Windows 7 is not for you. But I have to wonder, how many countless hours did you spend getting that first IBM PC to just do a few basic things?

Reply | Quote

Thanks for all of the responses to my post. Most of the answers refer to improved security in Win7. I find that “Access Denied” when I simply want to see the contents of “Documents”, or similar personal folders just makes no sense. Posters cheerfully tell me that the folders are not hidden, encrypted, or otherwise “locked”. No, they are in the same locations that they were in XP. That’s all fine and well, but I did not commit to memory the precise location of these folders. I simply used common sense and Explorer and have always found them in seconds. I really don’t want to log out Bob and log in Administrator just to have a peek in my Documents folder. Is there member of the Lounge who thinks that there is a single malware creator who does not know the real Win7 locations of the folders he wants to access? I wonder how anyone at Microsoft could imagine that a malware creator could be that colossally stupid. Am I missing something here?

In contrast, I think that it is a substantial security improvement to not give administrator rights in default install. I am glad, not annoyed, to be asked before any code installation occurs or untrusted programs execute. In the same vein, I browse with Firefox running the excellent No Script plugin. I like to be asked before scripts are allowed to run on my computer. I have absolutely no problems with Google, but I would like to know why they need to log my visits to Windows Secrets Lounge, and exactly how that information is used. Until I am better informed as to these issues, I simply do not allow the google-analytics.com script to run on any site I visit. It’s nice to be asked!

Of course, I have put shortcuts to the real folder locations I use. However, I am not sure if it is OK to delete the phony “dead end” icons. I am still coming across folders I would like quick access to while I’m user Bob and have to remember how to “fix” it all over again. Does anyone know of a cook book “De-crapping Win7” document out there? Better yet, has anyone seen a De-crapping script out there? Of course, if a poster can tell me exactly how the “Access Denied” actually improves my security, I might leave the annoying dead ends in place and work around them.

Thanks again on all of your input on this subject.

Reply | Quote

Does anyone know of a cook book “De-crapping Win7” document out there? Better yet, has anyone seen a De-crapping script out there? Of course, if a poster can tell me exactly how the “Access Denied” actually improves my security, I might leave the annoying dead ends in place and work around them.

Thanks again on all of your input on this subject.

This is child’s play. Jam-pack your computer with data and stay offline. Encyclopaedias, dictionaries, thesauruses, hypertext, e-books, the works. Above all, programs you use with no need to be online.

Yes, there are ways of breaching your security by other means when you are offline, but if you are that worried about it then you can worry about those too. You won’t be the only one.

Go back to the pre-internet and pre-email world and you will be in heaven. If you have a second computer, or even a cell-phone, new or old, then you can use that to download anything that is available on-line. Ever look at the monthly MS updates? They are virtually all security-related, and if you are offline you can either ignore them or download them on another computer to keep them relatively up-to-date.

We all had expensive fun with computers before the internet, and this is one place where retro-fun is invaluable. If you only have one computer, don’t worry – it will be obsolete within eighteen months and you might as well keep the old for yourself.

Reply | Quote

Does anyone know of a cook book “De-crapping Win7” document out there?

I’ve made mention of a soon-to-be published update to my website in this thread. The methods/suggestions that I have uncovered, however, have come from figuring out how Windows 7 works, not by wishing that Windows 7 was Windows XP.

If you would prefer to use XP, why don’t you just do that? When Vista came out, I didn’t see enough there (for my uses/practices) to warrant the expense of the OS, so I just skipped Vista and kept using XP. Of course my XP is not everyone’s XP, and mine is pretty well bullet-proof. But that’s another story. Windows 7 is much closer to my version of XP, and I see enough added value to justify the upgrade this time.

I still intend to make it run my way, though.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Thanks for all of the responses to my post. Most of the answers refer to improved security in Win7. I find that “Access Denied” when I simply want to see the contents of “Documents”, or similar personal folders just makes no sense. Posters cheerfully tell me that the folders are not hidden, encrypted, or otherwise “locked”. No, they are in the same locations that they were in XP. That’s all fine and well, but I did not commit to memory the precise location of these folders. I simply used common sense and Explorer and have always found them in seconds. I really don’t want to log out Bob and log in Administrator just to have a peek in my Documents folder. Is there member of the Lounge who thinks that there is a single malware creator who does not know the real Win7 locations of the folders he wants to access? I wonder how anyone at Microsoft could imagine that a malware creator could be that colossally stupid. Am I missing something here?

Thanks again on all of your input on this subject.

Bob,
I am betting you did an upgrade and not a new instll and replace data? If that is the case, then the access denied is folder permission error. It is going to take time to fix it, but it could be done. There are a couple of methods to look at.

1. Hunt down the folders and give the “Bob” account access to each folder. This would need to be done on the administrator account.
2. Move the files into the UserBobMy Documents folder. Using this method, Bob has access to all the data by default. Again this would need to be done with the Administrator account.

The places Data is stored is not the same as in XP. The Folder Documents and Settings has been changed to Users. So if you are going into Documents and SettingsBob, it is not a Windows 7 created directory and the Administrator has access by default, but none of the Non-Administrator accounts has rights to it.

Reply | Quote

For those who started computing before Windows find it harder to adapt to the latest Windows. My brother in law was a computer programmer who writes software back in the late eighties. I was computer illiterate at that time & he find it hard to teach a moron like me to use the PC – that’s what he refers to me. I started with Win98 in 1998, went on to WinME & Win2000 briefly & have a long love affair with WinXP. My system now is loaded with WinXP, WinVista Ultimate 64 & Win7 Ultimate 64 on different hard disks. I have no problems using all 3 OS though each one is loaded with different programs. My brother in law on the other hand can run his XP quite well but getting worried about upgrading to Vista or Win7 but too proud to ask a moron like me who is now an expert in DIY, photo & video editing softwares. Whenever I faced a problem in Windows I would go online to ask my peers & elders for advice. The whole world is using Windows & whether you love it or hate it, you still have to use it or be left out. Unless you want to be a guru who lives high in the mountains….
PS I am not a supporter of Microsoft. They are earning tons of money & they should write a simplified OS for free distribution.

Reply | Quote

First off I admit I am self employed in the industry but this year I am older than Methusaleh! Having said that, what did I get for last Xmas? Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit for this laptop I am typong on and a few months later Win 7 Pro for my desktop which had Vista Business on it. I also have other desktops with XP and Vista on them.

Why all this? First off they are the more commonly used Windows so anything that escapes my old age memory can be reclaimed by a visit ddown memory lane to the old days, the more relaxed days of the old OS of Win XP or by a visit to the hard times of Vista. The big reason, though is, like Mt. Everest, because it is there! Oh sure, I can con my wife and say “hands on makes a better me” and that the tax write off makes it worth it but the simple fact is that it is there, I have things to learn and it is fun.

In the same vein, though I bring work home and can work 32 hours without sleep and survive on coffee and toast all that time, when I have nothing to do, if I am not into science fiction (25% of my down time) I am actually scouring the net to learn something. I am not a great web designer but have designed a site that made the person cry because it was “so beautiful” and was for a not-for-profit place. I did it in Joomla of all things for the practice. In January this year I was told I had 3 weeks to get a 10,000 stock item online sales site up and running and hadnt done online sales sites before so I took 2 weeks of that time to learn Joomla, put in the online sales add on and put the site up. I did have to beg off with all the repetitive typing and picture adding saying that you can only get so much done in a day and they agreed to that so long as the site was there and their fast moving stock and so they were. I do online courses galore, too.

So why give this rundown on myself as if I am Boy Wonder? Not because I am trying to bignote myself but to show you – if you love I.T., if you BREATHE I.T., if your heart breaks because you have finished all your jobs for the day and if you need to call emergency medical services when your ISP has a technical problem that stops you getting internet, you are like me you poor thing and you dont CARE what Windows is out now. It’s all just great fun, maybe an income and definitely your faith, your religion, your reason for living……oh wait “KIDS” you say? OK, if they can be plugged into a USB port they are useful. If not, then they arent.

Dont look for a reason to give up. Look for a reason to push in further. Dont see it as swamping you, see it as a large wave to ride in to the beach and dont be worried if you are as busy as a one armed wallpaper hanger up to his butt in crocodiles – there is Google or possibly a Steve Irwin imitator around to help out.

Just keep running, man. It isnt about the race, it isnt about the pace. It’s about DOING it!

Is it time to give up on Windows? I think that this discussion is best housed here, rather than Non-Microsoft OSes. My interest is more in the opinions of others about the pros and cons of giving up on Windows 7, rather than where to go after giving up on it.

I will admit to being a compu-geezer, dating back to the original PC. I have been thoroughly spoiled. Did you know that the technical manual for the first IBM PC contained full commented source code for the operating system? No Secret Black Boxes from Redmond back then! The user could program and use the computer as if he ACTUALLY OWNED the thing! Sure, if I locked out other interrupts too long in my interrupt service routines, the system clock might miss counting a tick or two. I accepted that I might cause myself problems by having the control I had, but it was precisely that control which allowed me to quickly and easily solve really complex problems! Putting your own electronics on the system buss was almost trivially easy! Now that the operating system has undergone so much “improvement”, I have to do a research project just to find out how to access my own data files!

My new H-P computer came with Win7 installed. As I have attempted to use it, I have encountered a blizzard of “Denied” and “Prohibited” and “Locked” and their synonyms. I have spent over two hours in the Lounge reading post after post from users who are frustrated by having been stripped of control of the computers they OWN by Bill’s Latest and Greatest. I have found a plethora of registry edits, widgets, gadgets, work arounds, Power Toys, scripts, unlockers, and on and on and on ad infinitum. There are even posters on this site telling that THEY KNOW what I “need” to use my computer. What colossal arrogance!

I would dearly love to see these folks invest a pile of their money in a swank new Audi or BMW, only to find that it comes with wonderful new “driver protection features” which halt the car and announce that your attempt to drive down a certain street is “denied”. After all, the car maker KNOWS which streets you really “need” to go down! The driver is left to finding detailed street maps and trying as many different alternate routes as required before he can drive to his desired destination. The wonderful new Win7 does everything it can to limit you to Microsoft Approved Destinations! Aren’t you just loving your new Microsoft Smart Car?

It is becoming clear that I will need to spend many hours of my time collecting the knowledge and tools to defeat, disable, or bypass these wonderful new attempts by Microsoft to save me from myself. That is, should I want to use my new computer as if it were actually mine to use as I see fit. At some point, the rational choice is to abandon the application of endless amounts of lipstick to this pig, and pursue finding a PC operating system which has not been “improved” right out of being useful. I would be most interested in the views of others as to where they think this point is located.

Reply | Quote