Interesting docked laptop screen and external monitor question

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Actually not expecting anyone here to answer, so suprise me At worst perhaps suggest good places to pose this question – other than Lenovo which is poor at addressing user questions.

OK:

I have a Lenovo Laptop with a Lenovo Thinkpad Dock (which I love). I have an external monitor connected to the dock. Tried both DP and HDMI which seem to have no difference for my needs and purposes and this question specifically.

The laptop resolution is 1920 by 1080. The External is 2560 by 1440. So far so good.

I cannot either scale the laptop less than 100% nor change the laptop resolution above native resolution. Windows will not allow either. So I cannot emulate closely the external layout and windows sizes on the laptop. BUT, read on….

The external is my primary monitor. I have Windows set to duplicate. NOW, if I open the laptop lid while viewing the attached external, the laptop scales EVERYTHING to show an exact duplicate of the external monitor. Everything is sized appropriately, functions, looks exactly as the external, but smaller.

If the laptop is not connected to the dock with external monitor attached, there is no way to get this display, only the 1920 x 1080 which is a bit of a jumble.

Is there ANY way to get the duplicated display to work with the laptop not connected? If I could scale or change to higher than native resolution it should work but windows has no function for that in any settings I can find. I can see it is possible, I just cannot get there.

Hopefully a complete enough explanation for you to get the drift.

Thanks.

~Bob

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rebop2020 wrote:

Is there ANY way to get the duplicated display to work with the laptop not connected? If I could scale or change to higher than native resolution it should work but windows has no function for that in any settings I can find. I can see it is possible, I just cannot get there.

I’m assuming what you mean is to scale the external monitor when the laptop is closed vs not connected?

I have my laptop setup to do what I think you’re after.
This article though for W11 I’m using it on W10 on my laptop.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I’ll look at your link, thanks, but I think I want just the opposite. I want to scale the laptop screen to less than 100% as it appears when docked and duplicated to the external.

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I’m well beyond that article, I’ve been doing all that for years, but thanks.

To try to phrase a little differently, when docked and I open the laptop screen, the laptop screen is scaled to maybe 75% mimicking the proportions and screen of the external monitor. Without being docked I can find no way to achieve that. That is what I am really looking for.

Not mission critical, but I really like the smaller windows and more information displayed.

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If your laptop has an Nvidia GPU, you can use it’s DSR setting to do this.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TechTango

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Nice find and very interesting, thanks. But my NVIDIA control panel is very different. I think I asked once a long time ago and was told the one you show is only for desktop computers – mine’s for laptops. If not, I want that driver

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According to Nvidia’s FAQs, if you have the option to connect external panels through HDMI, DP or USB-C (which you obviously do), then the DSR option “should” appear in the Control Panel settings.

Bearing in mind that Win10 does not include any way to set a screen resolution < 100% but the “laptop” display does change to a lower resolution when you connect the external monitor, it “appears” DSR is being used.  Either that or there’s some other 3rd party S/W on your system that allows it to lower the resolution below 100%.

Maybe you need to specifically select the Nvidia GPU under the Preferred graphics processor: setting?

Maybe DSR is only available while the external display is connected?

Or maybe you need to update your Nvidia drivers directly from the Nvidia GeForce Drivers site to be able to manually set it?

BTW, be sure to select the laptop version of your particular Nvidia GPU, i.e. GeForce RTX 40 series (Notebooks), in the Product Series drop-down.

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Thanks.

Did get drivers from NVIDIA.

Learning a bit today. The laptop screen cannot use the GPU drivers, only SPECIFIC applications; which is another problem I may post about later. But selecting the GPU as preferred processor or forcing an app to the GPU does not change the screen and OS using the integrated CPU.

That being said, the Intel Control Panel may have the ability to set DSR, will check shortly.

And NVIDIA says that those options in NV Control Panel will never appear on a laptop regardless of driver or how the monitor is connected.

More as I find it and I’ll post the force GPU problem once I have this one fully understood.

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OK, even Intel Command Center only allows one to increase the zoom level, not decrease. Yet when set to duplicate and external as primary monitor, WINDOWS will scale to 75% perfectly. Unfortunately, I believe this is the only way this scale can happen. Would love that feature.

So, after many hours, I think I have exhausted the possibilities.

The second question would have been:

Windows, not NVIDIA control panel, now controls which processor to use for which apps. I cannot tell any app to use the GPU. In Windows graphics setting, select an app (or 6 apps) and set them to always use the GPU (high performance) and no matter what I set or try, only THREE apps now use the GPU. They DO use the GPU, so it appears to work, but only Adobe Lightroom, Adobe Photoshop, and Microsoft 3D use the GPU. Firefox, Edge, Adobe Illustator, Word, etc. will not even set to use high performance.

Why is this and how can I fix that?

Well, after more hours, I found several more apps that can use the GPU, some which do it without telling windows to force it, and some only when asking Windows to force it. Then some, like Canon Digital Photo Professional that should use the GPU will not no matter what.

So I think that is what it is. Some will, some won’t, some need to be forced.

And always use the GPU cannot be set globally on a laptop.

So, learned some stuff even though did not get the results I would’ve preferred for either issue.

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As an alternative you could try using the Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) created by ToastyX that’s “suppose” to be able to override Windows < 100% resolution limit by making changes to the registry.

It does have several H/W requirements to work, but your setup seems to meet them.

As far as getting other programs to work with your Nvidia GPU, you can “manually” add programs to the Nvidia GPU managed programs list as follows:

With “Show only programs found on this computer” checked, select the program you want to add in the drop-down list, click the Add button, and then set whatever “Features” you want it to use (i.e. Power management mode = Prefer maximum performance.)

You’ll notice in the above image that I added the “Desktop Windows Manager” to mine and I set it for max performance just like what you’re trying to do.

BTW, if a particular program you want to add isn’t listed, the Nvidia Profile Inspector program can be used to “manually” add it to the drop-down list.

I’ve never actually used it to do that, but I have used it to override some of the “default” Nvidia GPU settings on my system with my own preferred values.

Of course, as always, YMMV

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NVIDIA Control Panel no longer functions to add. Must be done in Windows Settings. And only some added and set to High Performance there actually do use high performance. Will check the CRU. Thanks!

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rebop2020 wrote:

NVIDIA Control Panel no longer functions to add

It does for me (latest Nvidia 536.67 driver)

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It does not work. Appears to, but does not. Read the “i” bubble right above your arrow Alex. MUST be done in Windows.

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It does on my laptop.

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Don’t know if this will work in your case, but I found some hits on the web where users of Lenovo Laptops were able to “disable” the Intel iGPU which forces everything to use the Nvidia GPU.

Option 1:

Use F1 to enter BIOS Setup

System setting -> Device and I/O Ports -> Internal Graphics and set the value to Disable

Option 2

Device Manager > Display adapters > right click the Intel iGPU, select Disable device, and then reboot.

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Unsure I need to do that now as I have the majority of apps that can make use of the GPU running that way now with a few notable exceptions.

Just found this and have not tried it. I like to know more before I try things like this, but it looks promising:

2 GitHub – imniko/SetDPI

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Interesting. On mine it looks like changes are saved but do nothing. Changes in windows settings graphic do work but only on a limited amount if programs that seem to be able  take advantage of the GPU. I did get Firefox and edge to work with GPU.

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@rebop2020 –

When you include a quote like you did above, PLEASE include the source of the quote, i.e. the website or, preferably, the exact URL where it can be found.

So, exactly where is that quote from so we can read it for ourselves?

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@rebop2020 –

Bob, exactly what is the version number of the Nvidia Control Panel that’s installed on your computer?

To get the answer to this question, you’ll have to open “Settings” from the Start menu, then click on “Apps” and then scroll down the alphabetically-arranged list until you get to the listing for “NVIDIA Control Panel” (yes, the company’s name is in all caps) and click on it.

Now, click on the blue-colored link labeled “Advanced options” that just appeared in the listing for the Control Panel. At the top of that window that opened are the specifications of your installation of the Nvidia Control Panel, including the version number. Exactly what is that version number?? If you can post a screenshot of that window with the specifications on it, all the better!

Why am I asking this? Because, it could very well be that you need to update the version of Nvidia’s control panel on your machine to be able to see what @bigal67 (alejr) is talking about with the DSR setting. Turns out I have it available on my computer, but I’ve no need to mess with it currently.

One other possibility that might bring out the DSR setting in the 3D settings area of Nvidia’s Control Panel: Go back into the Control Panel page that is in your screenshot in post 2574867, and click on the drop-down box under the setting that says “Preferred graphics processor:” to change it from its current setting of “Auto-select” to the listing for your Nvidia processor. Per your previous statement, the procedure for changing the preferred graphics processor in Nvidia’s Control Panel doesn’t work. However, for @Alex 5723, it does seem to work on a laptop. This, to me, suggests that maybe you need to update the version of Nvidia’s Control Panel.

One additional consideration just came to mind. Since things seem to work for @Alex5723 as they’re supposed to, and since he has the latest Nvidia driver (536.40), perhaps you need the latest driver AND the latest version of the Control Panel in order for things to work as @bigal67 (alejr) had said in post 2574858 above.

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Hey Bob.

NVIDIA Control panel 8.1.964.0  Should be most current.

BOTH NVIDIA and Microsoft will tell you this no longer works. It even says so on the NV control panel. ONLY windows changes what graphics processor is use IF the app can use the GPU. Obviously, some cannot.

And as I think I said, the NV CP appears to work but does not. Someone confirm that an app using the internal graphics switches to GPU when all that is done is a change in NV CP. I’d be surprised, but not the first time.

The DSR setting will not appear on the laptop version of NV CP. Those settings are not there by design. Never have been with the original Lenovo versions and not there now with the driver and panel sourced from NV. As a matter of fact, the ONLY NV CP available now for windows is through the Microsoft app store.

Can the DSR setting be set to less than 100%?

Have a bunch of emails with NVIDIA on all this. Likely tossed, but recent. I was trying to confirm I had proper diver, etc. Now, there are also a ton of different NVIDIA GPUs, so THAT could be the difference. I have an Optimus setup of M520. I’ll bet there is where the difference is. Even though NVIDIA says you cannot have that control panel on a laptop.

Just wrote the above mentioned utility’s author to see if it will work for me.

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Bob99 wrote:

@rebop2020 –

When you include a quote like you did above, PLEASE include the source of the quote, i.e. the website or, preferably, the exact URL where it can be found.

So, exactly where is that quote from so we can read it for ourselves?

That appears to be a quote of my own post  entered somehow while viewing this thread on my phone.

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Actually, this was a reply to another post and instead of quoting that post turned my reply into a quote. I’ll avoid Woody on my phone

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@rebop2020 –

Well, after reading the user’s manual cor the version of Control Panel that was current as of the release date of the most current driver available for your stated GPU (520M with Optimus specialization for Notebooks) and the latest user’s manual for my GPU (a desktop 1050Ti), I’ve come to the same conclusion that you’ve presented earlier…the DSR setting isn’t available for mobile platform GPUs in your GPU’s generation.

From the user’s manual for Control Panel from March of 2018, the release date for the latest driver for your 520M (version 391.35), there’s a table on page 20 that lists various settings for 3D application controls and, for the DSR settings, the table has a note that says “Fermi-based and later desktop GPUs”. I added the emphasis.

In the user’s manual for Control Panel in the latest release of drivers for Nvidia desktop GPUs (536.67), things get a bit confusing. On page 14, under section 3.1 of the manual, there’s a caution statement that says

Caution: With Optimus systems under Windows 10, the Display controls are not available if no display is connected to the NVIDIA GPU. This is because clone mode across display adapters is handled by the Windows OS and not by the NVIDIA driver.

Just for clarity’s sake, the section of the table that mentions the DSR settings in the latest manual for Control Panel doesn’t say a thing about being restricted to Fermi-based and later desktop GPUs!

So, it still kind of sounds as if your GPU is controlled by Windows, enough so that you can’t use the DSR settings as mentioned by @bigal67 (alejr) above.

This makes me think that perhaps there’s another solution found through the use of third party utilities, such as the one mentioned by Al above, the Custom Resolution Utility.

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Wow. Thanks for all that effort Bob. NVIDIA had confirmed that. Seems to be what it is.

Not mission critical, and if I had not opened the laptop while using the large desktop monitor would have never know the laptop could display a higher resolution than native. So of course, I want that all the time now

I can’t use it, but were you able to tell if DSR can scale less than 100%?Unless my math is cock-eyed, I am displaying (perfectly) a 2560 x 1440 on a 1920 x 1080 screen so I would have to scale to 75%. And that has to be what “something” is doing when I open the laptop lid with duplicate.

Will post when I hear back from SetDPI. Which is really set scaling.

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When I checked that setting on my machine to see what was available, there was no setting below 1.2x the native resolution, so I don’t think it’s possible. Also, look at Al’s post a ways above, and you’ll see the same thing…nothing below 1.2.

For more info, I highlighted the DSR description in my Control Panel and took a screenshot so you can see the description and a couple of examples of just why you would want to use DSR. It basically is intended to improve an image’s resolution, even at lower resolutions to make things (curves, diagonal edges, etc.) smoother and maybe even easier on the eyeballs!

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Interesting it is intended for games. I can understand that.

Thanks.

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@rebop2020,

In thinking about this and some of the issues I ran into helping my Aunt setup a “higher resolution” external monitor for her laptop (she encountered a similar problem but it was the external monitor that changed sizes when she opened her laptop), I realized your laptop’s screen resolution might not actually be changing to 75% but staying at 100%.

Instead, what might be happening is Windows is “shrinking” all the fonts and icons down to 75% so your 1920 x 1080 display “looks” the same as the larger 2560 by 1440 external display (i.e. 1920/2560 and 1080/1440 both = exactly 75%.)

The way to determine if this is what’s happening is real simple.

When your laptop screen changes, is the “display area” (what you see) smaller than the actual physical LCD screen (i.e. there’s a black border between the edge of the “displayed” desktop and “physical” edges of the screen)?

If there is a black border, that means “something” on your laptop is changing the screen resolution.

However, if there is not a black border, that means the screen resolution is still 100% and it’s the fonts and icons that have been shrunk to 75%.

If the fonts/icons are what’s getting smaller, none of the solutions proposed thus far will achieve what you want but it may still be possible.

While Win10 doesn’t “directly” support setting a specific font/icon size like previous versions of Windows, the actual variables that control them do still exist in the registry and do still work. However, changing them now requires either 3rd party S/W or manually editing the registry.

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Just another Forum Poster wrote:

Instead, what might be happening is Windows is “shrinking” all the fonts and icons down to 75% so your 1920 x 1080 display “looks” the same as the larger 2560 by 1440 external display (i.e. 1920/2560 and 1080/1440 both = exactly 75%.)

Totally agree. Window sizes all elements as well. Which is why I have been calling this scaling. It is more than just fonts and icons. EVERYTHING. Even the images on the wallpaper. It’s as if the DPI has gone from 96 to 128.

The screen has no black border, it’s full screen as if it is the native resolution.

As to your Aunt, need to make the external primary display and set to duplicate. Then it will not change the external.

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rebop2020 wrote:

As to your Aunt, need to make the external primary display and set to duplicate. Then it will not change the external.

Thanks for the tip, but this was a couple of years ago and I’d already figured out that was her solution.

rebop2020 wrote:

It’s as if the DPI has gone from 96 to 128.

Yup, changing the DPI is “scaling” and Microsoft removed the ability to set a custom DPI in Win10.

However, you may be able to do it using the Intel Graphics Command Center as follows:

With the external monitor disconnected.

1- Open the Intel Graphics Command Center.
2- Display > General tab > Resolution.
3- Select Resolution = 2560 x 1440 and Scale = Maintain Display Scaling.

Note: if 2560 x 1440 isn’t available, click the “Custom” button and add it.

If 2560 x 1440 isn’t available and there’s no “Custom” option (or it won’t let you create it), you’ll need to use the Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) tool I posted above to set the display to that size.

BTW, since I don’t have any PC’s that use the Intel Graphic Control Panel, I can’t verify the above will work but numerous google results “seem” to indicate that’s how to do it.

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Thanks, but Intel GCC for changing resolution takes you to the Windows Display Settings page where you cannot set higher than native resolution. The magic that I am seeing has to be in the code for the duplicate setting.

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