• I just lost a little bit of respect for Dell…

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    #2175321

    I have a Dell G3-15-3579 gaming laptop.  I got it on sale a year and a few months ago during a Black Friday sale, and I really like it.  It has some places where Dell’s cost cutting is evident, like the 50% sRGB gamut display, but it generally feels and acts like a unit that costs more than a “budget” gaming laptop.

    The warranty is expired, and the temps I was seeing in the CPU were a bit higher than I would prefer (laptops tend to run hot anyway, since the space for cooling systems is so limited), so I decided to re-paste the CPU and GPU.  If you aren’t sure what that means, it involves removing the heat sink, cleaning the old thermal interface material (TIM) off of the heat sink and the corresponding surfaces on the GPU and CPU, then applying new TIM and putting it back together.  I’ve seen some reports by people that they can get decent reductions in temp by doing this, so I thought I’d give it a try.

    I opened the case, then removed the four screws holding the heat sink to the CPU.  I went to then remove the four from the GPU, and… there were none.  All four spots where screws were supposed to go were screwless.  I’ve never had the heat sink off before, and no one has opened the thing up since I bought it but me, and I know I didn’t remove them!

    I looked in the .pdf service manual Dell makes available and found that the screws were M2x3, and I happened to have some of those on hand, so after I’d completed the cleaning and re-pasting, I added the four missing screws.

    The laptop is definitely running cooler, by between 5 and 10 C, which is pretty significant.  The CPU was the bit that was running hotter than I would have liked before, not the GPU, and that’s surprising, given that the GPU was the bit that was missing the screws.  Either way, it’s idling at ~38C now with occasional spikes to 52C, where before it idled at around 45C and spiked to the mid 60s (core temps, measured at whatever the hottest core is at the moment).

    I don’t imagine that Dell intended these screw holes to not have any screws.  I know sometimes when multiple models share components, they skip bits that aren’t needed for the model in question, but it’s hard to imagine why they would deliberately skip these screws.

    One example is an anecdote, and that’s not enough in itself to really know anything.  I could have received the only Dell to have screws missing that entire year, while the competition could be putting tons of them out.  Or, perhaps, this is absolutely typical of consumer Dell PCs.  I don’t have any way of knowing.  Still, it’s disappointing.

    If this had caused any really big problem, it probably would have made itself evident during the warranty period.  I’m kind of surprised it didn’t… but it’s fixed now, and I’m pleased that the temps have come down (in light use, so far).  It’s really good paste that I put on there (Gelid GC-Extreme), so if anything, the performance improvement should only increase under heavier load.  I’ve used this for my overclocked CPU and video card in the desktop, and on the GPU and CPU in my Asus F8 laptop, and it’s the best I have found.

    I tried Thermal Grizzly liquid metal TIM on the F8 also, and the temps were decent but not as great as I’d hoped… and they got worse as time passed.  I now know that the gallium was being absorbed into the copper of the heatsink, leaving behind the indium and the tin, which were not sufficient to carry the heat load by themselves.  More reapplications of the liquid metal would have helped, as the absorption of the gallium into the copper slowed, but overall, I was disappointed by the whole thing, and I just put the conventional Gelid paste on there again, and had temps almost identical to the fresh application of the liquid metal– and without the risks (it’s liquid and conductive).

    Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
    XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
    Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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    • #2176119

      A good quality thermal paste will definitely help with temperatures. I use Arctic Silver 5, which is probably better than what you get from the factory.

      My guess about the screws is that it was unintentional – someone simply missed it. I am certain that Dell didn’t deliberately leave the screws out. I believe they are more quality conscious than that.

      Maybe someone worked on the laptop and left the screws out.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server
    • #2176127

      I opened the case, then removed the four screws holding the heat sink to the CPU. I went to then remove the four from the GPU, and… there were none. All four spots where screws were supposed to go were screwless. I’ve never had the heat sink off before, and no one has opened the thing up since I bought it but me, and I know I didn’t remove them!

      Just last week I opened the case of a Lenovo laptop that was overheating. You wouldn’t believe how many tiny screws were involved. Anyway, after I put the laptop back together I had more screws lying on the table than before I started. I could send them to you to replace the ones you had to take from your reserves.  🙂

      The laptop participates in the Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search (GIMPS). After cleaning the CPU heatsink and applying Corsair TM30 thermal paste, temps dropped from 105C to 74C.

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      • #2338239

        Anyway, after I put the laptop back together I had more screws lying on the table than before I started. I could send them to you to replace the ones you had to take from your reserves.

        I missed this part back when the post was first written, but I read it again just now (after I already entered the post about the temps from Anonymous).

        That won’t be necessary, but thanks for the offer! I’ve got plenty more screws now. I bought a multi-size assortment from ebay not long ago, so I’ve got at least 50 of all of the common sizes now.

        There have been a few negatives like that about the G3, but I still like it a lot and am glad I bought it. Most of the things that could be fixed have been, and in the places where it really matters (reliability, stability, stuff like that), it’s been good.

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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    • #2290543

      Last week I removed the old hard disk from a Gateway laptop prior to donation, and was surprised to find that some of the screws in the drive cover were captive, and some were not. On reassembling it, I likewise had one left over, which I added to my reserve pile 😉

      Windows 10 Home 64-bit

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    • #2338122

      “temps dropped from 105C to 74C.”  ???

      Don’t you mean 105 ℉ ?

      Pretty sure that a chip would fry and melt the solder as the plastic melts @ 105 ℃

      Things catch fire at 100 ℃

      • #2338214

        No, pretty sure Cybertooth didn’t mean F. You’d be fortunate to have 74 F (23.3C) at idle on a desktop with a cooler much larger than stock, let alone on a laptop, and even then it would require ambient temps at least a few degrees below that on air or water.

        Solder does not melt at 105 C, nor do any of the plastics typically used in a laptop case (though some poorly engineered models may warp with continued temps in that range), and the flash point of paper, wood, etc, is still at least few hundred degrees F above that.  Some Intel CPUs are rated up to 105 C, and they don’t die immediately when they hit the limit. They go into thermal throttling to keep the temps from exceeding the limit, but it will keep working as long as it is able to keep the temps from increasing more. If it isn’t, it would turn off to preserve itself.

         

        Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
        XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
        Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

        • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Ascaris. Reason: Emphasis added
        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2338227

        Things catch fire at 100 ℃

        Very few normal things and they tend to be nasty otherwise too. Don’t build your computer out of solid phosphorus…

        Pretty sure that a chip would fry and melt the solder as the plastic melts @ 105 ℃

        I thought milspec electronics have to survive running at 125 ℃ and PCs built to that standard may still use processors that come from normal production lines… Anyone know better?

        Many plastics can take a lot more than that, anyway. PET (the stuff usual drinks bottles are made from) melts somewhere above 200 ℃, around the same as normal lead-free solders.

        Leaded solder is usually somewhere around 190 ℃, more expensive types a bit under.

        • #2338235

          mn- “Very few normal things [burn at 100 degrees] and they tend to be nasty otherwise too. Don’t build your computer out of solid phosphorus…

          That is right. What happens at 100 degrees Celsius: Pure water at sea level and one standard atmosphere pressure (1000 millibars) boils at 100 degrees Celsius.

          Dell story is a little disturbing, especially to the owner of the laptop that finds an important chip is not screwed on. Noel Carboni wrote about a year ago his own horror story opening a Mac laptop that was the opposite: lots of tiny pentalobe screws that had to be removed to open the box, plus several further inconveniences after that.

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    • #2340340

      One example is an anecdote, and that’s not enough in itself to really know anything. I could have received the only Dell to have screws missing that entire year, while the competition could be putting tons of them out. Or, perhaps, this is absolutely typical of consumer Dell PCs. I don’t have any way of knowing. Still, it’s disappointing.

      Hey, you don’t think that those “engineers” who design the hardware actually consider the techs who have to fix it, do you? <sigh> It’s a universal truth, like “Meters lie. Always use three and pick the two nearest readings and average between them.” (Unless any one of them has calibration traceable to the NIST.)

      Many years ago, a Tech Writer I know very well was doing the manuals on the first generation of high-tech combat helicopters flipped out when he got to documenting the procedures for changing the engine oil;

      “First, remove the engine.”

      I rest my case. And the engine, it’s heavy.

      Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
      --
      "The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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