I have the file, but Explorer can’t find it!

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Hi,

I use Quicken 2003 for bookkeeping, and I was setting up a backup with a new program (Cobian Backup 11) when I discovered that Windows 7 can’t find my Quicken data file. It’s the most perplexing thing! I can run Quicken, and the File menu tells me C:Program Files (x86)QuickenQdata1.qdf is what I have open. I can type Qdata1.qdf into the Windows Search bar in the Start Orb, and before I’ve finished typing it displays Qdata1.qdf like it should.

Here’s the strange part: If I right-click and choose “Open File Location” it can’t find the file! And if I open an Explorer window and navigate to the directory, the file doesn’t appear! Every other file that Quicken uses seems to show up, so why not my data file?! And yes, I have folder viewing options set to show extensions of known file types (and hidden files, etc.).

Is there something new to Win 7 I’m overlooking?

Thanks!

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Laughing1, welcome to the Lounge.

The file location may not have been included in the original index of your PC. This article seems to have a good explanation of how to index your PC to include all locations. Be advised the first time you run the index it does take a while. It seems the Windows default index is not as comprehensive as it should be.

A Google search of Win 7 Search Index shows many such articles.

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Thanks Ted.

I read the article, and I started to update the indexing before leaving for work (on a break now). BTW: the .qdf file type was listed as an indexed type.

Do you believe that updating or even rebuilding the indexing will solve the problem of Explorer not showing the file? Because the indexing article leads me to think that it will only fix Windows Search.

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Explorer uses Windows search. I was able to find several areas on my PC that had not been included in the original index.

Quicken 2003, if I’m not mistaken, uses several files for their data file. I know Quicken 2008 had I believe 4 separate files that had to be accessed to open the data file. With version 2011 and now 2012, that has been changed to just a single file.

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Explorer uses Windows search. I was able to find several areas on my PC that had not been included in the original index.

Quicken 2003, if I’m not mistaken, uses several files for their data file. I know Quicken 2008 had I believe 4 separate files that had to be accessed to open the data file. With version 2011 and now 2012, that has been changed to just a single file.

True. The other 3 (to 5) files contain user preferences, email messages, and other non-essential data. The .qdf file contains your actual financial records. You can delete the other 3 (to 5) and run the program, and it will auto-generate at least 3 of the others (losing your prefs, etc.) while keeping your precious data. The last 2 won’t auto-generate until you take a specific action such as send or receive an email within Quicken.

So I tend to focus on the .qdf but since you mention it, the other user files aren’t showing up either!

I rebuilt the index, expanding the locations to be indexed. It didn’t help.

I notice that some of the Excluded locations are Data and AppData locations. Attempting to dig to those locations was a bit of a frustrating exercise, running into lots of permissions issues. In fact, between the Windows 7 permissions, and now this mysterious limited search business, I’m really losing enthusiasm for Windows 7. So much for making new OS’s more user friendly. The article you referred me to laments XP’s search function but I never had a complaint with it, and I used it a great deal. Windows 7 not being able to find a data file that both Quicken and I know is there is just stupid.

It’s all striking me as a collosal waste of human capital: I would like to use my talent for other things than becoming a good Windows OS geek, yet all of this was initiated by my attempt to back up my precious data – which Microsoft has also failed to give any priority to. Why didn’t they force all developers to place user data in one location years ago? Because bells and whistles were more important than user’s data.

Ok, I been raving. I do that when I’m wasting huge amounts of time on something that should “just work” as Steve Jobs used to say (he lied too).

Xircal: thank you for pointing out search operators, but as you can read in this post and my first, the problem isn’t remembering the filename, etc. It’s Windows 7 not “seeing” a file that I already know the name and location of.

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Try using an search operator. For example, type: name type:quicken (where “name” represents the name of your file).

If you can’t remember the name of the file, just type: type:quicken which will give you all the files types which are Quicken.

You can also do it this way: name ext:qdf (change the extension to the one you’re looking for).

Quicken also has its own search tool which records the last four files you opened: http://quicken.intuit.com/support/help/backup–restore–file-issues/cannot-find-quicken-files/GEN82048.html

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When you changed the search settings did you check to make sure that .qdf was included in the file types to be indexed?

Joe

--Joe

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That is very strange, because I use Quicken (at least 3 versions) very successfully in both Win 7 and Win 8 RP beta. When I opened Quicken it would ask me what file to open, I pointed to the file in explorer and it opened. I have no other ideas what could be going on.

Did you, instead of putting the whole file name in the search, just put .qdf in the search box. My shows up just fine

31326-QuickenDataFile

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Disregard my earlier post. You are not having a search issue. Have you cleared the checkbox for “Hide protected operating system file”? When you search for the .qdf file, in the search results right click the file and select Properties. What are its properties in the General tab? What about the Security tab?

Joe

--Joe

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I now agree that I’m not having a search issue. I came to this conclusion after reading more about indexing, and that it merely speeds up the search process, but you can search with it paused or turned off.

JoeP517:Yes, I started with Windows 3.0. One of the first things I do after installing a new Windows OS is change the folder view options so Windows won’t treat me like a 6 year old.

Searching produces only one result, which is a shortcut that fails to function. Yet the Properties gives the correct target: “C:Program Files (x86)QuickenQdata1.QDF”
The Target tab is the focus by default. Attempting to click any other tab such as General produces an error message because Windows sees the shortcut as faulty. The error popup title is “Problem with Shortcut” and of course it asks you to double check the path.

When I very first couldn’t find the file (and Ted: it’s really all of the user files that are gone), I thought perhaps I had moved it to a location that would be more conducive to backing up. But that’s when I discovered that searching can’t find it either. And I have gone into the Advanced properties of the indexer, and it does have all of the Quicken user files listed and checked (qdf, qdb, qdx, qdt).

I also just performed an experiment: I used Cobian Backup 11 to do a backup of the C:Program Files (x86)Quicken directory. I backed it up to a Linux based NAS. Then I used a Linux based file explorer in my Android phone to see what files had backed up, and the qd* type files were NOT there. So the only thing I can deduce from the results is that Cobian uses the same engine as Windows to recognize files, so it didn’t “see” anything Windows couldn’t “see”. Which makes complete sense – why wouldn’t it? Even the dialog boxes look just like Windows Explorer.

Maddening!!

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I’m sorry, I have no other ideas at this time. As I said my Quicken files all show up as expected in both Win 7 and Win 8 RP. Even my automatic backup files (Quicken makes an automatic backup every some many iterations) show up in explorer.

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On other forums, LOTS of people have had similar complaints – Google something like: “Windows 7 can’t find file”. On one forum I stumbled onto a mention of running the program with elevated privileges once, so I tried that. I went to Start>Quicken 2003 and right-clicked, chose “Run as Administrator”. Instead of the program opening as usual, I got a “Welcome to Quicken” dialog, where I had to answer that I already was a Quicken user (vs. new user). That brought up a File>Open dialog, that was already open to “C:Program Files (x86)Quicken” and I simply scrolled to “Qdata1.qdf”. I then made a small change to a transaction, saved and exited.

Now typing “qdata” into Start>Search gets several hits: a “Quicken.ini” file that has just been created in “C:windows”, a .txt file I recently typed that word into, an empty folder just created in “C:Program Files (x86)Quickeninet”, and “C:Documents and SettingsMichaelAppdataLocalVirtualStoreProgram Files(x86)QuickenQdata1.qdf” along with all the other user files (*.q**), a handful of other files, and about half the folders that were already in “C:Program Files (x86)Quicken”.

So let’s see now: Windows 7 Home Premium 32 allowed me to run my x86 program, and allowed that program to decide where to place the user data files (in its own directory, as typical). But without a word to the user it ran the program with some mysterious kind of limited privileges that hid the user data files from virtually everything in the OS, and 3rd party apps as well. Then the beleaguered user has to search around forums for hours on end, requesting assistance AND TIME from generous people like yourselves, who have can in no way be considered “novice” users, yet who also don’t know the answer – because it’s so obtuse.

And after all this, I don’t know if Windows has moved my files without permission, or if the copies are “virtual” as in “VirtualStore”, and my original files are in reality still in the original location but simply hidden from everything except Microsoft’s deep hard code.

 

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It sounds like you hit upon the solution. Glad that worked. Win 7 does work toward a more secure PC than previous versions. Even working from an Administrator Account, you do not get the highest level of Administrator Rights. This only comes with Run As Administrator. What I do now is always Right Click an installation .exe and Choose this highest level during installation. I’m now wondering if installing the app in this way would have solved the problem before it started.

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… Win 7 does work toward a more secure PC than previous versions… What I do now is always Right Click an installation .exe and Choose this highest level during installation. I’m now wondering if installing the app in this way would have solved the problem before it started.

Good point. And you can bet I’ll do that in the future. But your suggestion indicates to me that by creating such a labyrinth, MS has defeated the purpose, forcing users to learn the simplest workaround to the inscrutable GUI they gave us.

Thanks for the tip.

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I don’t know whether this would have helped in the preceding problem, but a program called File Locator Pro can locate files no matter how they are hidden, and can do it almost instantly without the need for lengthy indexing. I always use it rather than Windows Search.

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With Windows 7 both “C:Program Files” & “C:Program Files (x86)” are highly protected. A program and/or user must have special privileges to write in them. Therefore, the Virtual Store concept was invented. It allows older programs which are not aware of the Windows 7 security paradigm to continue to function. The files are really in that location.

Joe

--Joe

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With Windows 7 both “C:Program Files” & “C:Program Files (x86)” are highly protected. A program and/or user must have special privileges to write in them. Therefore, the Virtual Store concept was invented. It allows older programs which are not aware of the Windows 7 security paradigm to continue to function. The files are really in that location.

Thanks for the explanation Joe. I’m a bit lost though: so you’re saying that by my installing and running Quicken as a lower level user, Windows placed the user data files in the (x86) folder but made them invisible? And then by running the program “as Administrator” Windows moved the files to the Virtual Store?

Last, does that mean that the Virtual Store is less or more secure than the two Program Files folders?

Thanks,
Mike

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Thanks for the explanation Joe. I’m a bit lost though: so you’re saying that by my installing and running Quicken as a lower level user, Windows placed the user data files in the (x86) folder but made them invisible? And then by running the program “as Administrator” Windows moved the files to the Virtual Store?

Last, does that mean that the Virtual Store is less or more secure than the two Program Files folders?

Thanks,
Mike

No it does not. Sorry for not being clearer. A huge issue through the years for Microsoft was allowing almost any userid the ability to change the contents of the “Program Files” folders. That included storing volatile data there too which really belonged some where else since it is not a “program file”. Starting with Vista, Microsoft decided to tighten the rules about who can make changes to those folders. This change is to make the system more stable and get developers to keep data separate from programs. In order to not break older programs that will run on Windows 7 but were not really designed for the folder structure and default security in Windows 7 Microsoft devised the Virtual Store. The Virtual Store has the same security characteristics as any data folder so it is no more nor no less secure than other data folders.

Joe

--Joe

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When confronted with all the shenanigans that Microsoft plays on us, I always turn to the free program Everything from Void Tools. Just as the name says, it shows you everything on your disks. And, it allows you to copy, delete, and all the other things you might want to do. I wonder, however, if it would help in this situation if Windows had not indexed the file. Everything lets Windows do all the heavy lifting and just supplies you with quick access to the file system’s files. It is extremely quick and priced right. ‘Might be worth a try!

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Mike, in case Joe’s last reply did not make it clear the file you were looking for was not in fact in the directory Quicken thought it was in (rather than actually there, but invisible): it was in another location that Windows created specifically for Quicken (to keep it out of the ‘protected’ Program Files directory structure) but made Quicken believe was in the location it expected it to be in – thus ‘virtualizing’ its location. From other comments it sounds as if Windows would have not virtualized the location but rather have allowed Quicken to actually place the file where it wanted to IF Quicken had been installed using ‘Run as Administrator’, though I don’t know whether you would then have also always had to start Quicken itself using Run as Administrator to make it work properly.

Thanks for bringing this point up for clarification: I haven’t used Win7 or Vista enough to have noticed it, and it’s definitely something I consider worth understanding. Given the number of comments that were made before the underlying situation became evident I suspect that it may have been useful for others here as well.

When confronted with all the shenanigans that Microsoft plays on us,

I don’t like them either, which is one reason why I often prefer using XP (or even Win2K, which is still remarkably viable and stable) to Win7. As a file system designer I fully understand the balance between system security and application backward-compatibility behind the Virtual Store, but as a user I detest the fact that its machinations are hidden when browsing the directory structure (and find ‘libraries’ objectionable for similar reasons).

There were other options Microsoft could have chosen – e.g., rather than insist on absolute protection (and the mechanisms required to make this protection transparent to older applications which didn’t conform to the new Windows rules) it could have simply asked the user on installation of a non-conforming old application whether s/he wanted to allow it to act with the gay abandon it was allowed in earlier environments, installing it with appropriate privileges if the answer was “yes” and either refusing to install it or installing it with Virtual Store indirections if the answer was “no” (and in the latter case providing a brief explanation of where some of its files would be placed). But such criticisms are much easier to make in hindsight, and I do have some sympathy with the path that Microsoft’s engineers chose as seeming like a good idea at the time (and for a great many users it probably still is a decent ‘solution’).

I always turn to the free program Everything from Void Tools.

Hear, hear! I LOVE Everything, especially its speed (both in compiling its index and in searching it). It would certainly have helped Mike find the file he was looking for.

Just as the name says, it shows you everything on your disks. And, it allows you to copy, delete, and all the other things you might want to do.

Almost all, anyway. For example, it won’t open a saved Web page file (.htm) for me – I have no idea why.- though i can use the Explore Path option to open an Explorer window to the saved page’s directory and open it there (this is also a good way to open a sub-directory with thousands of siblings without having to wait for Explorer to digest them all, if the various alternatives to Explorer are not to your liking).

I wonder, however, if it would help in this situation if Windows had not indexed the file. Everything lets Windows do all the heavy lifting and just supplies you with quick access to the file system’s files.

I don’t think Everything depends on Windows for anything except access to the file system. Everything builds its own index after scanning the directory structure, updates its index by using the file system’s change-notification API (unless it actually hooks all file system calls and interprets them itself, which seems unlikely), and rescans (VERY quickly) on restart just in case it missed any changes while it was not running. So it in no way depends upon Windows indexing (I have that disabled, in fact – though if I had much need to search by document contents I’d enable it).

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Thanks everyone for the input here. An internet search for “Windows 7 Virtual Store” turns up some interesting forum exchanges on the subject, and it’s obvious that it has caused many people before me a good deal of trouble.

There were other options Microsoft could have chosen – e.g., rather than insist on absolute protection (and the mechanisms required to make this protection transparent to older applications which didn’t conform to the new Windows rules) it could have simply asked the user on installation of a non-conforming old application whether s/he wanted to allow it to act with the gay abandon it was allowed in earlier environments, installing it with appropriate privileges if the answer was “yes” and either refusing to install it or installing it with Virtual Store indirections if the answer was “no” (and in the latter case providing a brief explanation of where some of its files would be placed). But such criticisms are much easier to make in hindsight, and I do have some sympathy with the path that Microsoft’s engineers chose as seeming like a good idea at the time (and for a great many users it probably still is a decent ‘solution’).

I’m certainly no expert in computer security, let alone OS building, but I agree that they had other options that really should have been implemented. I think their biggest mistake was the “secrecy” aspect. I totally agree with your sympathy for the engineers, and that it’s easy to criticize in hindsight, but there are things here that Microsoft as a whole shouldn’t get off easy on. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that if they were going to implement “redirects”, that a great many users would care very much about where their data was stored, so the process should have been transparent at the very least, and as you also say, maybe also given a choice.

But they also obviously had some bona fide mistakes that went into the final product: A “redirect” is one thing, but redirecting my data files to a completely different directory and then either hiding the fact from me or failing to let Explorer recognize that the files were there is another matter entirely!

So Microsoft, I have this question: I understand you wanted to protect me from bad things, so you moved my data files out of the program files folders, but why on earth would you then make my files invisible until I ran the (legacy) program “as Administrator”? (After letting me install and run as a regular user with not so much as a mention?) And why, if you wanted only an Administrator to be able to “see” the files, would you allow me to see them now that I’m NOT running it as an Administrator?

Yes readers, neither Search nor Explorer knew the files existed until I ran Quicken “as Admin” one time, and then everyone could suddenly see them in the Virtual Store. That makes absolutely no sense. Not from a security perspective, and certainly not from that of a user.

And the headaches they bestowed upon the average user didn’t stop there: After I ran the program “as Admin” one time, then found the files in Virtual Store, the next time I ran Quicken it treated me as a new user (Welcome to Quicken). Not sure about this, but that would indicate to me that my files actually were moved, so Quicken couldn’t find them. When Quicken asked if I was really new of if I had an existing file, I said “yes” and browsed to it in Virtual Store. And guess what? Quicken failed to open the file! So I placed a copy in the C:Program Files (x86)Quicken folder and it couldn’t open that one either! Was there something wrong with the copy? No, because I finally uninstalled Quicken and reinstalled it to (just) C:Quicken, then when Quicken asked me for an existing file I chose to “restore” the copy into the C:Quicken folder and I’m back in business!

And by the way, now that I have run Quicken from C:Quicken, with its data file in the same folder, a Search no longer turns up any copies of Qdata.qdf anywhere else. Did they vanish? No, because Explorer can see them in the Virtual Store.

Did I hear someone say that Microsoft is famous for spending on the bells and whistles, but cheapskate on the nuts and bolts?

BTW: Thanks Bob Spafford, I will get “Everything” and start using it.

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