How Do I Install Security Updates if Software Update Doesn’t Work?

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I have a macBook Air and an iMAC, both from mid 2017 and both running Catalina through the 2022-003 update. Over the last 2 to 3 months it has become increasingly common for Software Update to hang with a spinning gear icon and the message “Checking for updates”. The problem is especially acute on the iMAC. The only time I have access to it is late at night and for the last couple weeks I can’t can’t get past the spinning icon. I don’t check every day but have checked a large handful of days and on a day that I do check, I sometimes check several times within the space of an hour.

I’ve managed to install the 2022-004 security update on the Air, but not on the iMAC.

My overall question is how do I install an update if Software Update doesn’t work?

Is there something similar to the MS Update Catalog where I can download a security update and then install it?

Is anybody else seeing the hanging behavior in Software Update?

My internet research hasn’t turned up anything useful. Everything just says to open Software Update and go from there.

Thanks

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How long have you let the spinning beachball run. Try leaving it over night. The Security Update 2022-004 is 1.59GB and there is a Safari update that is another 100MB.

I had no problem with the update on my three Catalina machines.

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DrBonzo

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The problem is that I never even get to the point where anything even starts to install.

I go to Preferences, click on Software Update and get a small rectangular box that says “Checking for Updates” with a spinning gear/wheel. That box just hangs there and never gets to the point where it tells me what updates are available. It used to be that when I clicked on Software Update, I’d see the spinning wheel and “Checking for Updates” message for a couple seconds and then be told that Monterey is available and that other updates are available. I could then install the updates of my choosing.

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DrBonzo,

I have had the same problem, recently more so, but not every time.
I also have had success getting a normal, briefly spinning gear, by trying in the evening, some days after the updates first showed up in the Mac.
My theory, for what’s worth, is that soon after they are released, many people night be downloading their updates, perhaps those for iPhones as well, and all from the same servers.

If I am right, that would be a nuisance, but not something one could do much about, other than wait.

Now that I run Monterey, this happened again, so I stopped the attempt, then waited a few days, tried once more and got the update, installed it.

My computer is described in the signature panel below.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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I’m wondering if it is trying to download the 12+ GB Monterey installer that others have said appears without asking in Applications. Leave it checking overnight – nothing will install without permission if you are just checking.

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DrBonzo

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That could be.

When I go to Apple icon/About This MAC/System Report/Installations, I see 3 entries for Monterey – 12.2.1, 12.3, and 12.3.1, but no 12.4. Also, when I go to Launchpad, I see an icon for Install Monterey. So maybe like you say, System Update is trying to download the latest Monterey before telling me what’s available.

My other thought was similar to OscarCP’s that maybe time of day has something to do with it; either too many download attempts or Apple is selectively prioritizing time zones for downloads.

Does Apple have something similar the Microsoft Catalog where you can just download what you want and then install it?

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DrBonzo wrote:

Does Apple have something similar the Microsoft Catalog where you can just download what you want and then install it?

The App Store (Duh!)  

Catalina would be 10.15.7 Update 2022-004

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DrBonzo

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Perhaps it was a dumb question. OTOH I don’t consider an OS or an OS update to be an “App”. On the few occasions when I’ve looked in the App Store it seemed it was about games, and what I would call programs – photo/video editing, office productivity, etc. But I will check it out.

I just found this, which is more what I had in mind:
https://support.apple.com/downloads

Edit to add: The above link is mostly nonfunctional it seems, only one page with 9 or 12 entries, and “no results found” when attempting to search or got to any of the categories listed at the top of the page.

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Also have you rebooted?  Mac is occasionally like Windows and needs a good shut down and start up to get things working.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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DrBonzo

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I’ve searched the App Store for every combination I can think of containing the following: macOS Catalina 10.15.7 Security Update 2022-004. I’ve found nothing that comes close to what I want.

Back in High Sierra (and maybe Mojave, although I don’t remember for sure), all the updates, security or not, came through the App Store, but that doesn’t appear to be the case for Catalina.

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? says:

DrB, i’m not a mac person but i do use the CMD\Terminal. perhaps this would help

https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/apple-mac-os-x-update-softwareupdate-bash-shell-command/

if it is not slow update server(s)

also you can use curl in the terminal, too…

https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/107921

good luck…

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DrBonzo

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DrBonzo: That Web URL that you found is an old one: it does not come up again when restricting the search to “Last year”, instead what shows up is that same Apple site now advising to do what you have been doing in About this Mac/System Preferences/Software Update. Or About this Mac/Software Update. That works too. When it works.

I find it odd that the Catalina 004 update appears in that old site and not in the new version of it.

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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I found the Apple downloads site from both an internet search and also from the general Apple support page https://support.apple.com/ by scrolling down to Search Topics and entering ‘downloads’.

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DrBonzo: Not that I want to appear to be an alarmist, but …

If you re referring to this Web page: https://support.apple.com/downloads, isn’t it odd that only shows the updates for Catalina but not those for Big Sur?  That had its also much delayed update coming out simultaneously with Catalina’s? Although there is nothing in that site or the one from where one gets to it (the one you linked in your last comment just before this one of mine) that says “Downloads for Catalina and some other things, but not for Big Sur.”

I would really like to believe that there is some Apple place in the Web where one can truly go to get the OS update that one can’t when that gear spins for ever. But it’s starting to look like this whole business may deserve its own Whodunit show (in Apple TV+? called “The Strange Case of the macOS Catalina 004 Update”) isn’t it?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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Yes it does seem strange that only Catalina and not Big Sur is on that page. I thought at first it was because I was using a mac running Catalina, but then looked at itusing my Linux Mint computer. But it also seems strange that that web page is fake or bad because it would indicate that Apple’s support website has been compromised.

I do wish there was an Apple site to which one could go to get downloads of all OS updates, just like you can with the Microsoft Catalog, or perhaps like a Linux repository. But it’s beginning to look like that’s not the case.

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OscarCP

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DrBonzo wrote:

macOS Catalina 10.15.7

https://updates.cdn-apple.com/2022/macos/002-83066-20220517-CD03500E-5E39-4709-B6F9-80F2447B7282/SecUpd2022-004Catalina.dmg

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DrBonzo

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Thanks for the link Alex5723. Where did you find it? It appears to be the same link as for the 2022-004 Catalina security update I found here:

https://support.apple.com/downloads

but I’m wondering if you found it somewhere else.

It looks like updates.cdn-apple.com has a lot of information I’ve never seen before and even though it says it’s intended for enterprise network administrators, it seems like it may have potentially useful information

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So far I’m 0 for 2: Absolutely no security updates for Catalina in the App Store, and 8+ hours of “Checking for Updates” with a spinning gear/wheel, but no updates showing up.

When I get my hands on the iMAC later today I’ll try a reboot to see if that sets things straight (I know, simple things first but it was so late last night that 2 mouse clicks to get to an update check was all I was up for).

If the reboot doesn’t work I’ll try either Alex5723’s link or the method described in a link from Anonymous.

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DrBonzo wrote:

It appears to be the same link as for the 2022-004 Catalina security update I found here:

I found it at the same URL.

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DrBonzo

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About the mystery of the missing update 11.6.6 for Big Sur:

I’ve found it in, supposedly, the Apple Apps Web site. Which, I believe, would be OK, except for the fact that the picture accompanying the link for starting the download in the Apps’ site was not what one sees when logging in to a Mac running Big Sur, but what one used to see when logging in to a Mac running Mountain Lion. So: Hmm … The plot thickens.

And I have not found some reasonably credible Web site explaining what is going on with these updates apparently now on offer for Catalina and Big Sur. The credible ones all repeat the same thing:

(1) About this Mac/System Preferences/Software Updates/Download Whatever.

(2) Good luck with that.

While the spinning gear spins on and on.

(Lucky me, perhaps, I am now running Monterey, after I finally gave up waiting for Godot 11.6.6, and decided it was high time to move on. And, for whatever reason, have not been suffering a serious case of spinning gear ever since then.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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The cynic in me would suspect that Apple is trying through somewhat devious ways to get everybody on Monterey. On the other hand I did manage to get the Catalina 2022-004 update installed on my MacBook Air without too much difficulty. That machine has 2 accounts, one of which usually gave me the spinning wheel, the other of which usually did not.

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bassmanzam, OscarCP

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DrBonzo: Did you just downloaded with the gear, or from that presumably Apple Support Web page?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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On the MacBook Air I installed the update in the usual way – Preferences/ Software Update, then got the spinning wheel with the message “Checking for updates” for about 2 seconds after which I was told that Monterey was available and that other updates were also available. I clicked to get the other available updates and Safari 15.5 and Catalina security update 2022-004 were there and I installed both.

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OscarCP

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have you tried rebooted?

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bassmanzam, DrBonzo

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That’s next on my list, hopefully tonight, but probably tomorrow.

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DrBonzo: “That machine has 2 accounts, one of which usually gave me the spinning wheel, the other of which usually did not.”

Good for you! Any idea of why this difference? What is not the same in those accounts that might explain it? At first sight, this makes no obvious sense.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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That’s the thing. Both accounts have the same software and administrative privileges. One of the accounts has also has an iCloud account and is the one I used this time to install the security updates. BUT, I usually use the other account to install security updates. So, the whole thing is pretty weird.

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Shut down the computer, let it sit for a few minutes, then booted it up, and I still get the spinning gear/wheel with the message “Checking for updates”. It’s been checking for 30 minutes now; I might let it keep going overnight.

I do have a question. In Windows 8.1 (and also Win 10, I think), there’s a difference between a “Restart” and a “Shutdown followed by a power button on start”, if I understand correctly. Are iMACs the same? I just did the second option. Should I do a “Restart” instead?

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Be sure when you do a Restart you UNCHECK to reopen windows when logging in.
Also, use the ID that has the iCloud account (probably the first ID created on the iMac (?).

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DrBonzo

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I hope that it is not necessary to subscribe to iCloud to download updates. I’ve never had any use for Apple’s “Cloud”, so this and Siri are two things I disable, first thing, every time I upgrade to a new version of macOS.

My current version of macOS is Monterey and my laptop details are in my signature panel.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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Are you recommending doing a “Restart” as opposed to a “Shutdown” followed by a start using the power button?

When I did the latter no windows opened. I just got the normal desktop. But are you saying that when I check for updates I should not have any other windows or programs open? I’ve never paid attention to that but it’s possible I’ve recently been checking for updates with Firefox open.

There is only one account on the iMAC.

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When I choose “Restart” I am given this option, which I can check or (in my case) not check. If you check the box, the computer has to retain the state of those windows (somewhat like using Fast Startup in Windows).

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DrBonzo

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I had issues with “checking for updates” about a month or 2 ago on my MBA 2017 with Catalina.  I would just reboot and 90% of the time it would work. But lately it’s been working like it should work, on the first time “Checking for updates”.

 

 

 

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DrBonzo

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When you say reboot do you mean “Restart” or a “Shutdown” followed by a start with the power button? Maybe it doesn’t make a difference, but on my iMAC I always do a “Shutdown” followed by a start with power button.

This morning my 2017 Catalina MBA hung on “Checking for updates” on both accounts it has. I did a “Shutdown” and the later this afternoon started it with the power button and it worked fine on both accounts. I happened to be 2 rooms away from the 2017 Catalina iMAC so I immediately tried Software Update on it. But alas, it just hung on “Checking for updates”.

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I just do a “Restart”.

But like I said lately it’s been working like “normal”

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DrBonzo

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I’ve tried all manner of restarts, shutdowns, leaving the reopen windows box unchecked, cold starts, letting “Checking for updates” run overnight, etc. None of which has worked.

I’m sort of tempted to think the problem is on Apple’s end, especially because as noted above the MacBook Air sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t, regardless of whether there has been a shutdown or restart. But I don’t see why the iMAC should be any different, unless Apple is trying to get me out of a 2017 Intel machine. But maybe I’m just experiencing heightened paranoia based on what Apple announced yesterday about what computers they will support on their new Ventura OS.

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Maybe it’s time to go ahead and update the iMac to Monterey. It’s supposed to be more secure. If it works OK, then update the MacBook Air as well.

Even @OscarCP upgraded to Monterey.

I am running 2x Monterey, 1x Big Sur, and 3x Catalina (these are 2012 machines not eligible for Big Sur) on the same network without any problems.

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OscarCP, DrBonzo

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@PKCano – Yes you may be right. I’ll have to upgrade anyway to something by about October since by then Catalina will have reached the end of its support life, but I was hoping to put it off for a few months.

Anonymous above posted a link that has some terminal commands I might try first.

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I wouldn’t wait till the end. If you have problems then, you will end up between a rock and a hard place.

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DrBonzo

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Yeah, I’m thinking I need to get it done absolutely no later than Labor Day. But if I can’t get the Catalina update installed before the next update comes out, I may just go for Monterey.

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Further attempts at fixing the iMAC update issue.

In a mac forum I came across someone with the same issue did the following with success. In Software Update click Advanced then uncheck the “Check for Updates” box and the “Install System Data Files and Security Updates” box. Then restart and go back and check (or if you like, recheck) the same two boxes and restart again.

Unfortunately that didn’t work for me.

I also opened a terminal and typed in ‘softwareupdate -l’ then Enter. I got the Software Update Tool and a message saying it was looking for updates, but it just hung there for half an hour.

Not sure what to do next, although it looks like it’s either try to download and install the latest Catalina update from here:

https://updates.cdn-apple.com/2022/macos/002-83066-20220517-CD03500E-5E39-4709-B6F9-80F2447B7282/SecUpd2022-004Catalina.dmg

or try to run the “Install macOS Monterey” from the Launchpad, although that apparently will only install Monterey 12.3.1 since the 12.4 version doesn’t show up in About this Mac/System Report/Installations.

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I think that, based on my own experience, Monterey should be offered also in About this Mac/Software Update/ Gear thing/Search for Updates -> Monterey with latest update. So I wonder if it is not there now.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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Tried looking there very late last night and it wasn’t there. The only place I see Monterey is in the Launchpad (install macOS Monterey, or something like that), but not from software update spinning wheel/gear

I’ll try looking again later today.

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DrBonzo: That’s odd: Monterey was always there from the moment it was made available to install, nagging me with a red dot on the gear icon on the dock and every time I used the gear to see what else was there besides it. Maybe it is different now when one runs Catalina? I wouldn’t know, because I skipped it and went from Mojave straight to Big Sur.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I see the red dot on the gear icon in the dock. When I click on the gear icon I get a spinning wheel and the message “Checking for Updates”. But it just hangs there – it never gets past the “Checking for Updates” message and since it doesn’t there is no way to install any updates. But, yes, it is odd.

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Idea!
If you have the “install Monterey” in Applications, maybe try deleting it.
It shouldn’t cause any problems, and maybe the download got corrupted somehow and messed up the Updates in System Preferences.

Shouldn’t hurt to try. Maybe it will initiate a good search and/or download.

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DrBonzo

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Thanks. I’m open to most any reasonable suggestion right now.

I can see Monterey in 2 places: 1)Apple icon/about this mac system report/installations, where I see install macOS Monterey. There are 3 entries – versions 12.2.1, 12.3, 12.3.3, but not 12.4. But right clicking on any of them does nothing and left clicking only highlights an entry, 2) in launchpad I have an icon for “install macOS Monterey”. I assume left click will initiate an installation, but I think a right click does nothing. I don’t know where else to look since I think a spotlight search doesn’t turn up anything else on my computer.
I’ll try manually looking in Applications.

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It will be in Applications.
Go to Applications in Finder. Right click – send to Trash.
Empty Trash.
Restart. (not shutdown/turn on)

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DrBonzo

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OK, I found it in the Applications Folder, like you said.

I’m wondering if it would be better to rename it and then Restart?
Or save it to a flash drive, send to trash, empty trash, and finally Restart?

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No need to backup, copy, rename, etc.
Just delete it. Empty Trash.

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My thought was that if I trash, delete trash, and restart, and that doesn’t work, then I’ve lost one route to Monterey (admittedly that path might not have worked anyway) and still won’t be able to download and install the Catalina 004 security update. Seemingly my only option left would be to try and download 004 from a site which seems to be lacking some of it’s intended functionality, leading me to think the download might not work. Then I’ve got an unpatchable computer which at some point will become unsafe on the internet.

Maybe I’ll try downloading 004 to my MacBook Air to see if the download site works.

Let me know if I’m missing something here!

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Why not backup your MAC and install Monterey ?

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You are definitely missing something.
Others have reported that they have deleted that Monterey install file multiple times and Apple re-downloads it.
What you are deleting is probably a corrupt version of the 12.3.3 update, since your Mac doesn’t show the 12.4 update for Monterey which Apple would have downloaded automatically after the other three.
It is my guess that this (a corrupted install file still in Applications) is what has broken your searching for updates.

I don’t understand your hesitation.

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OscarCP, DrBonzo

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My hesitation is probably more psychological than anything else because almost from day one my iMAC has been a fussy, sluggish, problematical computer. Nothing terribly serious yet but far from “it just works”. Totally different than my MacBook Air experience.

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To quote the Nike ad:

“Just Do It”

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OscarCP

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Well, I “just did it” and it didn’t work. I’m compiling a list of other possible solutions I’ve found on the internet, but am open to suggestions from the AskWoody audience.

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If I was still getting the spinning beachball searching for updates, and Apple had not re-downloaded a Catalina update (given 24 hours uptime), here’s what I would try:

Back up the iMac, Time Machine or other backup software if you use it.
At a minimum, back up your data to a portable HDD.
Make a list of the App you have installed.

Download the Catalina 2.4.4 Update and try to install.
OR
Go to the App Store and upgrade Monterey.

Monterey has been quite stable on my 2017 iMac.

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DrBonzo

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I’m probably missing something again, but when you say Catalina 2.4.4 Update, I presume you mean the Catalina 2033-004 Security Update that I would download from here:

https://updates.cdn-apple.com/2022/macos/002-83066-20220517-CD03500E-5E39-4709-B6F9-80F2447B7282/SecUpd2022-004Catalina.dmg

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Sorry, my mistake.
Catalina 10.15.7 Update 2022-004
OR
Monterey 12.4

Got my tang all tonguled up.

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DrBonzo

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Just in case: it is my understanding that to write to an external HDD or SSD, for example to make backups, one has to use one formatted as APFS (Apple File System) to use with a macOS version older than “Sierra.” The Time Machine external disk is formatted that way when first used:

https://www.minitool.com/data-recovery/best-format-for-external-hard-drive-mac.html

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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My USB backup drives are formatted NTFS so I can use them with both Macs and Windows.

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PK: My understanding has been that one can read files in an NTFS formatted mass storage drive to a Mac, but not write to it from a Mac. That if one tries to write, the device is reformatted and its old contents are lost. So now I’ve looked around, as my understanding of this is more than one year old, and found the following:

https://www.techradar.com/how-to/how-to-use-ntfs-drives-on-a-mac

It says one can do it and shows how, but is not a very new article: going by some pictures there showing the Mojave login screen, I’d think pre-Catalina.

This next one is clearly from this year, but with conflicting opinions as to whether some things for reading NTFS drives with a Mac work with Monterey or not:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-is-your-ntfs-drive-solution-on-monterey.2321471/

So: what is the correct story? This important, so I am interested in learning more about it.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I currently have Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey machines. All are running multiple Windows VMs.

PKCano wrote:

My USB backup drives are formatted NTFS so I can use them with both Macs and Windows.

I have been doing this since I installed my first Windows VM on my first Ivy Bridge Mac in the 2011/2012 time frame.

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OscarCP

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OscarCP wrote:

My understanding has been that one can read files in an NTFS formatted mass storage drive to a Mac, but not write to it from a Mac.

You can if you install NTFS read/write supporting app/drivers like Paragon, FUSE, ..

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OscarCP

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Thanks, Alex.

Please, notice that some people commenting on this in the “MacRumors” forum I have linked in my previous posting are saying some of these applications do not work with Monterey. Which might or might not be the whole truth.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Paragon is Monterey compatible.

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OscarCP

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Getting back to the topic at hand, I finally got the iMAC to update. I tried a bunch of stuff I found on the internet, all to no avail. That was no disrespect to any suggestions offered here, I just wanted to see what would or wouldn’t work. What finally worked was to go to Go/Applications and rename ‘Install macOS Monterey’ to ‘Install macOS Monterey(1)’, then Shutdown, then Start; Restart didn’t do it unless perchance I didn’t wait long enough, although I would have thought several hours would be enough time.

After doing the above, Installations showed macOS Monterey 12.2.1, 12.3, 12.3.1, and 12.4. Before the fix 12.4 wasn’t there even though it had been released. Software Update showed me that Safari 15.5, the latest -004 Catalina Update and Monterey 12.4 were all available.

I installed the Safari and Catalina updates separately and in that order. After the Catalina update the first thing showing on the monitor was Software Update which after a couple seconds of the infamous spinning wheel told me that Monterey was available. After checking a few things to make sure things were basically functioning properly, I went back to Software Update and guess what? The infamous nonending spinning wheel!

At least I got updated but why does this have to so difficult? The nonending spinning wheel is getting pretty old.

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@DrBonzo.

I suppose that just like Windows OS a repair/clean install of MacOS may fix problems you have with updates.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904

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DrBonzo

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I appreciate the tip, but that seems like a fairly intense solution to fix a problem that IMHO should be easy to fix. But I’ll have to upgrade in a couple months to Monterey anyway since Catalina support will end around October. I’m still waiting to see if the spinning wheel ever stops goin’ round. I don’t get access to the iMAC every day.

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Alex5723

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DrBonzo: “At least I got updated but why does this have to so difficult? The nonending spinning wheel is getting pretty old.”

Waiting and waiting for the download of an update to begin can happen and does happen, now and then, to many others, myself for example, but it seems your Mac is particularly prone to be a victim of the endless spinner.

So: good on you that you got the update finally installed. But not so good that it took a whole month for you to get the update installed.

My opinion?

That this is totally weird.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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The spinning gear issue is back in full force. This time absolutely nothing I do causes Software Update to offer me any of Safari 15.5.1, the -005 Catalina security update, or any version of Monterey.

That being the case I’ve done the following:

1) downloaded a file named SecUpd2022-005Catalina.dmg from https://support.apple.com/downloads

2) downloaded a file named InstallAssistant.pkg from the direct installer link for macOS Monterey 12.5.1 that I found here: https://www.iclarified.com/84321/where-to-download-macos-monterey

I have been unable to find any site from which I can download the Safari update.

I haven’t decided yet whether to install the Catalina Update or try instead to install Monterey. Whichever I choose, though, am I correct in assuming that putting the appropriate file from either 1) or 2) above on the desktop, and double clicking to open it will cause either the Catalina update or the Monterey OS to install? Is there a reason one file is a .dmg and the other a .pkg?

NOTE:
I understand that apparently Monterey can be downloaded from the App Store, although I had read that Catalina and it’s updates are available from the App Store as well, and that turned out to not be correct. I haven’t had access to a Mac for several days so I haven’t attempted to verify Monterey availability from the App Store. If I can get it from the App Store, I would think that would be the preferred method of installing it.

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DrBonzo, I feel for you. I don’t know why you are getting the spinning gear issue. Every once in awhile I will see the spinning gear issue. All I do is reboot and go directly to Software Update and it works!

Not sure if this will help, but the following link will help installing Monterey.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT212735

I think I’ve decided to upgrade to Monterey and hopefully get to it soon. It’s been a busy summer.

 

 

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DrBonzo

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Thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen it but it does explain more about what happens with the Monterey download. I’ve pretty much had it with Catalina on the iMAC and will probably go for Monterey. I think continuing with Catalina is just asking for more trouble. Catalina has been OK on my MBA and I’ll probably do the installation on that first.

I had a Windows laptop once where Windows Update stopped working, but it was pretty easy to figure out where to get the updates and how to install them. For some reason I’ve found it very difficult finding out how to do a similar thing on Macs. I’ll stop there before I get into rant mode.

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bassmanzam

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Given my level of experience above and beyond normal day to day Mac usage, I would never attempt tricky downloads and fixes.  That’s just me.  I used Best Buy’s Geek Squad when setting up my new router and printer for my new iMac back in 2020 and was very pleased with the service and results.  I requested and got a Mac expert that was great.  It was $99 well spent in my opinion.  I’d use them again.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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DrBonzo

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For some reason I had lot’s of trouble finding the download links. Once I found them I was able to download easily enough to my Linux Mint computer. I can either download them onto the iMAC or transfer the files from Mint to iMAC with a flash drive. I’ve only installed a couple programs on the macOS so I’m not sure what to expect from running the update programs. I would imagine I’d see something similar to what happened when I was able to use Software Update, but you never know. When you download an MS update from the MS Catalog and install it instead of using Windows Update, things do look different. The iMAC has been fussy since day one – doesn’t mean it will be on this but… I’m probably just going to go for it in the next week. If it bricks, I’ll have a good excuse to get rid of it!

By the way, the Catalina security update took about 20 minutes (1.6 GB) to download and the Monterey download took a bit over an hour (12.4 GB). That’s over what I consider to be a good steady internet wifi connection.

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The Catalina Security Update that I downloaded and referred to in my last post is named SecUpd2022-005Catalina.dmg. The way I understand it is that if I put this file on, say, the desktop and either double click it or right click and choose ‘Open’, then the 2022-005 Catalina Security update will install on the iMAC.

The Monterey download that I referred to in my last post is named InstallAssistant.pkg. I downloaded it from a link that specifically said it was for Monterey 12.5.1. The way I understand it is that if I put this file on, say, the desktop and either double click it or right click and choose ‘Open’, that Monterey 12.5.1 will not actually be installed, but rather that a file will be generated in the Apps folder with a title of something like Install macOS Monterey, and that if I click or double click or right click and ‘Open’ that file then Monterey will be installed on the iMAC.

Can anyone out there confirm what I’ve just said for either or both of the files?

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A .dmg file is an image. When you double click it, it will mount the image (it creates an icon). Sometimes it presents a separate “box” where you drag an icon to the Applications folder or double click it, and sometimes it just starts unpacking and installing. I’m not sure, but if the .dmg file is small, what it may do is start the downloading of the Install macOS Monterey.app to the Applications folder (see below) After the installation, the icon that was created should be unmounted by right clicking and choosing from a menu and the “box” (if created) should be closed, providing both are still on the desktop (if that’s where you started from).

The Install macOS Monterey.app is probably a BIG file. I suspect it is the same thing that gets downloaded into the Applications folder when the install is started from System Preferences\Software Update. So try putting it in the Applications folder and double clicking on it. That should start the installation

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DrBonzo

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The .dmg file I have is for the latest Catalina security update, and is 1.6 GB. I’ve dealt with only a handful or so of .dmg files and they all seem to behave a bit differently. Sometimes they just mount and sit there until I do something, sometimes they mount and open by themselves, and sometimes they seem to open even before I can tell they’ve mounted. There seems to be little if any uniformity – a lot different than just double clicking a .exe file in Windows.

The .pkg package is the Monterey file and is huge – 12.4 GB. I don’t recall ever encountering a .pkg file in macOS. They pop up all the time in Linux but almost always the “package installer” does what it’s supposed to do – install the package. But of course, that’s the whole issue here with the iMAC; the Software Update program refuses to do anything but present a spinning gear.

I’ve read conflicting statements of what to do with the .pkg file. Some say to open it on the desktop after which the .pkg file will create an “Install macOS Monterey” file in the Applications folder that I would then click on to install Monterey. Others say to put it in the Applications folder, open it and then find the “Install macOS Monterey” file also in the Applications folder. Others say things that seem completely unreasonable to me.

In any case Thanks for your input. I’ll give your method a try. I always like getting info from people I trust here as opposed to some website I know next to nothing about.

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DrBonzo, just a reminder of this post that has a link to how to install Monterey #2471451.

From the way I read it, if you download the Monterey file with Safari it will automatically install. No need to worry about .dmg or .pkg files.

 

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DrBonzo

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@bassmanzam Thanks for the reminder. I had gotten so wrapped up in all this that I had forgotten about that link. Next time I get access to the iMAC I’ll check it out. That method sounds a lot easier and I hope my imAC will let me get Monterey from the App Store.

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bassmanzam

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OK, All, I have another “How to install updates when Software Update doesn’t work” tale to tell. A neighbor’s MacMini was still on Yosemite, but eligible for Monterey. I didn’t want to go the full mile all at once.

On Monday (Sept 5th) I upgraded a MacMini from Yosemite to Catalina, downloading from the App Store. The install went off without a hitch, but FireFox, BackBlaze Backup s/w, and some other apps needed to be updated to run on the later OS.

Today I was going to move to Monterey. I ran into the ever-turning gear in Software Update searching for updates. OK then, download from the App Store – NOPE!! Clicked on “Get” and all I got was a “Looking for Update” long enough to know it wasn’t going to work either. Had to resort to downloading the InstallAssistant.pkg from iclarified.com

Thanks @DrBonzo for the handy link upthread.

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DrBonzo

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Thanks for relaying your experience.

You might think this is a stupid question, but what did you do after you downloaded the InstallAssistant.pkg. Is all you have to do is double click on it in whatever folder it was downloaded to? I’ve been away from this for awhile, but it wasn’t terribly clear to me how to get it to run. I remember reading that it needed to be in a specific folder, etc.

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I downloaded it to the Applications folder and double clicked on it. It puts the InstallMonterey file in the folder.
Easy peasy.

I really have tortured that poor MacMini the last few days. Two monster upgrades back to back. Wasn’t sure it would make it. But that’s the last OS it will be eligible for (without the hack). At least I bought another 3 years of security for the owner.

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DrBonzo

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@PKCano About how long did it take to install Monterey 12.5.1 on the macmini?

I’m curious because it took 51 minutes on my macbook air with an SSD and 8GB RAM to go from Catalina to Monterey 12.5.1 start to finish by what I would call the usual way (Preferences/software update). My iMAC with HDD and 8GB RAM usually takes between 3 and 4 times longer than the MBA to install security updates. I’m wondering if I’m in for a long night when I do it.

I already have the InstallAssistant.pkg file downloaded to a flash drive and I’ll transfer that to the Applications Folder and go from there.

Glad the MacMini survived the torture test. It’s always a good feeling to get another potential 3 years from a computer.

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MacMini was a late 2014 7,1 with an 1T HDD (not SSD). The download/install took several hours with numerous black-screen/progress bar incidents. The h/w is at the lower limit of eligibility, but Yosemite was so far out of date and I didn’t want to stop at Catalina which will be EOL probably in Oct with the release of Ventura.
The InstallMonterey file is around 12GB, if I remember.

It will be slower than I need, but they are using it for e-Mail, Zoom with their family, Internet browsing, etc. So it should buy them up to three more years of use. At least they will get security updates and be able to run secure third-party apps like Firefox (and Safari if they so choose).

I’ve got another neighbor with a 2015 MacBook Pro that needs the same thing done to his. But he is hardheaded, resistant, and aftaid of change. Guess it will take the other people talking to him before he trusts me enough to do the same on his laptop.

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bassmanzam, DrBonzo

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The iMAC HDD is 1 TB and spins at 5400. Sounds like I’m in for a good three hours. Even copying the .pkg file (it is about 12 GB) from a flash drive to the Applications Folder will take 10 to 20 minutes.

If you were my neighbor, I’d be holding my door open and then leading you with cookies, bottles of wine, or whatever you might want, to my Recaro office chair in front of the iMAC. :-))

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bassmanzam, PKCano

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I finally got to installing Monterey on the iMAC last night. Went from Catalina to Monterey 12.5.1. I know 12.6 is out but I had 12.5.1 downloaded to a flash drive and my access to the iMAC is limited, so I went with what I had. The download came from the iclarified link I posted above and that PKCano used a few posts above.

So, copied the InstallAssistant.pkg file to the Applications Folder and double clicked on it as PKCano described above. This generated a file in the Applications folder called Install macOSMonterey. (This file also showed up in Launchpad.) I double clicked on the file and away we went – for a while. Everything was going along well until the 1 hour mark at which time there was the Apple logo with a progress bar that said less than a minute remaining. It was installing faster than I thought it would. Then it stalled at the less than a minute message. It’s almost impossible to tell if the iMAC is doing anything when the progress bar isn’t moving; can’t hear the HDD and there are no processor indicator lights.

I waited an hour and 10 minutes because the machine is quite the slug, then decided I had nothing to lose by forcing a shutdown. I had just read that all peripherals should be disconnected from the machine, so I unplugged 2 usb printer cables and a speaker wire, even though all that stuff was turned off, and having cables plugged in with peripherals off has never made a difference before. Turned the power back on and got back to the Apple logo with a progress bar that said 29 minutes remaining. Things again progressed nicely until the less than a minute mark. This time it only stalled for about 15 minutes at which time everything went black. I was ready to force another shutdown, when – Behold! a faint dark grey appeared on the monitor!. Took my finger off the power button and 3 minutes later the pinkish Monterey nouveau art pic slowly formed, followed in another 2 minutes with a login screen. Kept plodding along until I got to a useable desktop.

Anyway everything seems to be working. Even the Software Update from System Preferences seems to work – no spinning gear.

The only odd thing I noticed during the first countdown to “less than a minute” was that the cursor arrow was constantly visible in the upper left corner of the monitor. The pointer occasionally appears during an update, but it’s never constantly present.

Hope this might help if someone else runs into similar issues.

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bassmanzam

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Yes, There were multiple restarts (as mentioned above), but I just waited (didn’t restart manually). It took a long time b/c the one I did had a 1TB HDD instead of an SSD too.

I did the update yesterday on that one to the latest iteration of Monterey. Software Update worked normally, no spinning beachball, but it took much longer than my two with SSDs and later (and better) processors.

@DrBonzo Wait a week or two and let yours settle out before you try the next one.

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bassmanzam, DrBonzo

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Yeah, the iMAC seems a bit gummy, and the Activity Monitor is, or at least was, jumping all over the place for a few hours. Seems to have calmed down although the chief user of the machine has complained that it’s slower than normal. It does seem that it’s gradually speeding up.

I find myself wondering sometimes why Apple even sold an iMAC with an HDD (I know, I bought it and didn’t do enough research beforehand). Other 2017 iMACs had SSDs.

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bassmanzam, pmcjr6142

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The average User doesn’t look at specs. They just look at “appearance.”
I have found that I usually can’t buy a machine at the local store anymore, b/c everything there is just the basics. To get a better processor, storage, more RAM, etc., I have to go shopping where better specs are available.

Consequently, I usually end up buying my Macs from Apple on line. That way, I know I’m getting the latest processor available (not two-year’s ago version). And the amount of RAM or size/kind of storage I order is not available except by custom order choosing what I want. As a result, I am still running a 2011 MacBook Pro, up-to-date Catalina, with a still beautiful screen. I did up the RAM from 4GB to 16GB and the 512GB HDD to a 512GB SSD after the purchase (4GB original + purchase of 2 RAM sticks was cheaper than purchase with 16GB for example and SSDs were not common OEM in 2011) but I got the top i7 and Graphics available at the time. Now you can’t change the components yourself, so that’s out today.

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DrBonzo

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Bought the iMAC at a Simply Mac store back in 2017. At the time my Win 7 machines were causing me fits with updating. Should’ve held out for a better – higher spec’d – Mac. I’ll know better next time.

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