Ho-hum. Win10 version 1809 = Redstone 5 = Windows 10 October 2018 Update

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No, it won’t appear on 10 October. Anybody’s guess when it’ll actually start rolling out. Version 1803 = Windows 10 April 2018 Update didn’t hit the f
[See the full post at: Ho-hum. Win10 version 1809 = Redstone 5 = Windows 10 October 2018 Update]

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Fred, ch100, Elly

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Seem to remember 1507 coming out as billed in July and 1511 hitting my machine in November as touted then it went of in to, as M$ puts it, 3 or 4 “Threshold” versions/updates (semi upgrades almost) that made some of my settings get all messed up but not to the extent that the 6 monthly nightmares do I hasten to add. Seem to remember 1607 was floating around actually in July but officially “hit” in Aug. Just a “Gut” feeling here, as I am not hearing any major gripes from the insider community and there’s really not that many new features from 1803.
I will stick my neck out and probably be “en garde” from the Official Patch Tuesday next month (B Patch Tuesday?) and I seen to recall they did it once before for a “Perfect Storm.”

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johnf, HiFlyer

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That quote has to be a joke, right? Help people make the most of their time? Really? Nearly 700 million devices? I thought that not too long ago Microsoft said, “over 700 million devices.”

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johnf, HiFlyer

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~ Group "Weekend" ~

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johnf, Elly, HiFlyer, Noel Carboni, Cybertooth, BobbyB

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For small businesses like ours, without an IT-department, Windows became a nightmare to maintain. Updates and upgrades are way too time consuming. Basically an upgrade means a lost day of work and revenue, plus a week of solving problems with drivers, settings, AV-scanners, software that didn’t survive the upgrade procedure etc. We’re looking for alternatives, it gives too much stress and troubles. 🙁

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johnf, Elly, HiFlyer, RamRod, Noel Carboni

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That’s one reason my small business is still powered by Windows 8.1 and loving the stability. 12 days 8 hours uptime at the moment. The Internet Explorer cumulative update a few weeks ago required a reboot, which broke my prior uptime streak of 50 days…

It won’t keep forever, but Win 10 is introducing must-have features at the rate of one over infinity, so…

-Noel

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johnf, HiFlyer

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It sort of makes you wonder when M$ finally reaches EOL for Win7 are they going to turn their unwanted indifferent approach that Win7 has now with updates on to Win8.1. Its just simply not a problem at all to run and I don’t recall it ever being a worry. The best kept little Windows secret out there.

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johnf, HiFlyer

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They won’t bother. By the time W7 hits EOL, there will be 5 – 10 people using W8.1 all over the World :(.

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abbodi86, Cybertooth, HiFlyer

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Don’t worry! Windows Server 2012 R2 sharing the same kernel with Windows 8.1 will still be around and maintained as it is still the main server OS in use and unless Windows Server 2019 will be more convincing than 2016 (it is 2016 R2 after all), then 2012 R2 will be here to stay. Windows 8 is the first edition of Windows 10 and as such they have many commonalities, unlike Windows 7. This is the main reason why you see Windows 8.1 updates highly reliable. Windows 7/2008 R2 are gone from mainstream and are likely kept on life support only from self-assumed obligation, but otherwise it is seen as old technology by those who matter.

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AlexEiffel, Noel Carboni, abbodi86, BobbyB

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ch100 wrote:
…Windows 7/2008 R2 are gone from mainstream and are likely kept on life support only from self-assumed obligation, …

How magnanimous of them. I would replace “self-assumed” with written, promised, advertised, implied, and explicit. End of development had a date, and security support has a date. Please do not pretend they can go back on established commitments without criticism.

ch100 continues:
…but otherwise it is seen as old technology by those who matter.

My emboldening. Just, wow. Tell us how you really feel.

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HiFlyer

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There is a famous quote:
“Those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind”.
Like it or not, the world is what it is, not what some believe it should be.

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Re: #214909

Entire Quote

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind”  Bernard M. Baruch

He also said,

“Two things are bad for the heart – running up stairs and running down people.”

Bernard M. Baruch

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AlexEiffel, Elly, Microfix

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Very good observations, ch100.

Win 8.1 being a viable “hold back” OS, while okay for now, simply isn’t going to keep – any more than running XP or Win 7.

There are already (admittedly a few) things Windows 10 does better (e.g., multi-monitor support). That delta in features and support will increase, and fewer and fewer important applications will support the older system – especially since Win 8 never got very popular.

If you’re still set on running Windows (for business reasons or whatever) will it be within a year that it will become prudent to adopt one of the Win 10s? I can’t say. It won’t be much longer than that, I imagine. It will depend on needs.

-Noel

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AlexEiffel

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Also, when 7 is out, the push to deprecate non store apps will be much stronger, to which point you might loose support for non store apps through big third parties. Why would Apple continue to offer a non store version when everyone is on 10 and for some reason we might guess they prefer to push the store version?

I was appalled when I saw that if you try to download Itunes on Windows 10, you now get the store version. Why? What incentive Apple has to provide a store version? What maybe hidden incentive they have? Uninstall the store version to reinstall the normal one by clicking the small links provided for the normal one has two times been the way to fix “my Iphone isn’t synchronizing no more” questions I got from people that upgraded to store version by mistake.

So, when 7 is not around no more, I predict the push for more store apps will accelerate, Win 8.1 being irrelevant in terms of market and maybe for the same reasons this laptop manufacturer “recommends Windows 10 Pro”… If I was Microsoft, that is how I would do it in a desperate move to push my store agenda. I would pay companies to offer store versions. And the thing is, it will probably succeed to a point.

The more I look at where things are heading, the more I start to believe that Ascaris, the otherwise usual pragmatist, might have been right with his early apparently more conspirationist view of Microsoft vs Windows. If Microsoft sees Windows as a liability, one way out of it would be to make people defect by devaluing the product while hiding a bit the impact by making money due to easy growth on the cloud front. By the time the cloud front will slow down a bit, Windows could become much less relevant and easier to dispose to focus on more growth oriented activities, Microsoft being a different company. I read that and can’t believe it. I am no conspirationist. But I wonder how can you explain some of the many “mistakes” that seem hard to imagine how they can happen? It gets more and more difficult to believe it is that hard to not push the wrong button as they accumulate.

The thing is I always feared Linux on the desktop a little bit for its lack of professionalism, one example being the Mint incident where the distribution was hacked, the regressions coming from the latest new thing that needs to be developed sometimes apparently for the sake of some developers idea of fun or modern coding practices. But today, can you really expect that Microsoft is that good with security vs the level of incompetence they now show? Yes they have a ton of great people working there I am sure, but what happens when a not so great one opens the back door while the good ones secured the front one? Apple does some good things, they have a good basis, but they don’t react that fast to security issues. What’s left? Where are we going? Who is the most serious company you can trust?

To me, it looks more and more like Woody’s behavior is indicative of the future. Woody loves his Chromebook. Google has the resources to offer a more seamless, simpler and secure experience out of the box. For maybe similar reasons as to why Chrome is so successful, I would predict Google success on the devices front, especially when Apple’s tax seems to get higher than before. Microsoft won’t win against Google. Will it be with Chromebooks or Fushia or something else, I don’t know, but I would bet on Google.

My big problem with all this is for the same reason I don’t use Chrome. I still value my privacy too much and prefer to choose an out of the box supplier that values it by default and not have to fool around hoping I find everything. Windows has become maybe the worst for this, as they can’t be trusted. My option for an OS that fills this need and displays the level of professionalism I would like at a price I find reasonable, ignoring any legacy I might have with Windows, tells me the options are still not very compelling.

Considering many people obviously don’t share those privacy concerns or they have them as a vague background idea that is secondary in priority to other valuable ones, lots of them running Chrome including many businesses, I predict success to Google in the following years as Microsoft killed an advantage they had for consumers and small business and they won’t win at the technical game against Google. If they kill their legacy apps competitive advantage, why would you go through the pain of what Windows has become? If privacy becomes more important in the mind of users, the choice between Microsoft and Google won’t feel that different so why take what will maybe be for many consumers the lesser product? To me, that is so bad, as I still think Windows has such a great interface even with some of the degradation it suffered. It could still be the ultimate productivity tool.

 

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Steve

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It won’t get significantly better with Windows… Meanwhile, I’m writing this post from Kubuntu 18.04 Live CD and it feels… just fine :). Everything is working out-of-the-box, including the printer and gamepad, there’s LibreOffice, Firefox + Thunderbird, Spotify, Steam, VLC… My Android phone is connected with the PC using KDE Connect. It took me maybe 20 minutes to have it all (either bundled already or a quick install).

It’s not the most polished experience (compared to Windows 7 or 8.1 to large extent) but… Feels quite refreshing. You should at least try :).

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johnf, RamRod, Cybertooth, HiFlyer

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I’m gonna try. Thanks for the encouragement.

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radosuaf

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@ anonymous #214468

For many small businesses, there may be no alternative to Windows.

Last resort is to go back to Win 7/8.1 Pro and in 2020/2023, pay the M$ “tax” to upgrade to Win 10 Ent LTSC 2018/2022.

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Noel Carboni

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Since Intel already has a lock on “tick” / “tock” releases, perhaps we could start using the terms “flip” / “flop”…

-Noel

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MrJimPhelps, BobbyB, Elly, HiFlyer

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I received a Notification to try out the 1809 release candidate even though I am not registered as a Insider and I use a local account so not sure if Microsoft is trying to push out release candidates to system to get more feedback? Or is it some sort of glitch?

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Jan K.

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Apparently it’s just a glitch:

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/170106/microsoft-mistakenly-sends-out-insider-update-notification-to-windows-10-users#respond

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The latest Windows 1809 17751.1 preview is such a mess, it’s hard to imagine that Microsoft will be able to offer a stable Windows 10 version by the time Window 8.1 EOLs.

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Well, you COULD choose to run only a mature copy of one of the previous Windows 10 releases, then just sit with it until one of the newer ones becomes fairly mature. Based on the number of folks around here asking whether to upgrade to 1709 or 1803, that’s a strategy being followed by a not insignificant number.

You just have to remember to download the ISO for each current version of Windows 10 right before the next one is released – i.e., now for v1803 – so that you have the option to choose which to install next.

What’s the support lifetime for any given Windows 10 release nowadays? That, minus the time you wait to adopt a new version, would determine how long you could run any given supported version of Windows 10.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

In general, assuming you wait 6 months before adopting any new Windows release, you would then get about a year of running that mature version. For example, “End of service” for v1803 – arguably adoptable right now – is November 12, 2019. That’s really not long enough, but the idea does provide some ability to a) reduce the frequency of major updates, and b) allow you to run only the more mature software.

-Noel

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HiFlyer

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Looks like the typical service duration is 18 months. Wow.

So not only are we forced-upgraded to the newest shiny every six months (unless we have Pro or better), we only get 18 months of support before it’s EOLed.

18 months.

At least when Apple releases a new version of macOS every September, they continue to support the previous two versions with security updates. So it’s more like three years of support per OS upgrade–twice as much as Microsoft.

I’m sorry, but every six months is WAY too fast. You’re playing whack-a-mole for the first several months before it’s time to start over again. And unless you’re on LTSB, you’ve got 18 months to upgrade or else you’re SOL, I mean EOL.

A “Modern Lifecycle” indeed.

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HiFlyer, Cybertooth

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Problem here is, that it is impossible to defer upgrades more then 365 days. In other words, I MUST upgrade from 1709 (which I use now and became more or less ‘stable’) to 1803 or even worse the October-upgrade. Big chance that MS quickly declares that upgrade also ready for business in a short term. Just to push people on the bi-yearly upgrade schedule.

Luckily, I see that slowly but surely MS Office is not always required by people I work for lately. Many clients are allowed to deliver their work also via for example Google Docs or other basic formats. Hopefully that’s a trend that continues. If so, I would have absolutely no problem to use for example Ubuntu, especially the LTS-version looks very tempting. In matter of use it’s very easy, it’s for sure not how Linux was in the past. Yes, I have been sneakily experimenting with it and was pleasantly surprised. In matter of user interface it’s a bit of a mix between Windows and Mac, with the emphasize on the last mentioned. The few updates that roll out now and then are implemented fast, often not even a restart is necessary. In comparison with Ubuntu and also macOS, Windows is a slow dinosaur. Why???

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johnf, HiFlyer, Jan K.

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“Impossible” may be the wrong word. “Not easily configured” more closely resembles the proper terminology.

-Noel

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That’s an attractive strategy that I’ll seriously consider adopting. I’m still on 1511. No worries. No updates. No hassle. Just computing. I know I’ll update someday, at the very least when I acquire new hardware. But my current machine might never see another version of WinX beyond 1511. I haven’t been as aggressive as you in turning off useless processes. But I did turn off Windows Update and all of the self-healing stuff. Got rid of the update assistant directories. I go to sleep every night wondering if MS will reach down from the cloud and screw with my machine. It’s not paranoia if they are all out to get you.

RAMROD

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Noel Carboni, HiFlyer

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https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/170106/microsoft-mistakenly-sends-out-insider-update-notification-to-windows-10-users

Another reason to disable Action Center and all the other push/advertising notification nonsense in Windows 10.

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I am so fed up with sloppy software coding, and not just from Microsoft. Unfortunately, I see this only increasing as app and OS code continues to rise in complexity. Feature bloat is a real thing. All this “shiny cruft” and constant tweaking just creates more points of failure.

I guess most companies think that negative PR from software bugs is less costly than maintaining a real QC team…

…yet we continue to stuff every gadget known to man with more software, whether it needs it or not. Before you know it, we’ll be dealing with locked-up toasters, blue-screening washing machines, home automation systems failing with a “something happened” message, and super ultra critical medical equipment that refuses to operate until it’s been updated with the latest mandatory monthly feature update, bringing new fun emoji to the UX for all doctors and nurses…

We’re never getting to Mars. We can hardly fix the bugs in our hearing aid apps…

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Noel Carboni, HiFlyer, Cybertooth, Elly

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anonymous wrote:

I see this only increasing as app and OS code continues to rise in complexity.

It’s not about complexity, but rather the fact that you can update software on the fly via internet. Companies had to release finished and thouroghly tested products as the only possibility to patch them was to send physical media containing updates. Now, when you can just issue a patch, you simply move your QA to users. This is not unusual that games get 3 GB patches on release day…

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What’s wrong with naming it September 2018 Update, even if released in December?
why the contradiction in version number and market name?

it seems better that 1803, the Clipboard store feature is nice

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Why was the clipboard limition one-hundred kilobytes instead of one megabyte?

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Whatever they call them, and whenever they release them, I think Microsoft should subtitle each release with the warning “Here there be dragons”… How’s that for transparency?

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HiFlyer

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How about Windows 10 18?? Nicked Surface Edition?

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