Help us unravel the Win10 updating Gordian knot

Topic

New Reply

For those of you running Win10 version 1709 and 1803… I’m trying to figure out under what circumstances people are getting upgraded to the latest ve
[See the full post at: Help us unravel the Win10 updating Gordian knot]

2 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, GreatAndPowerfulTech

Reply | Quote

Replies

Woody,

On my main computer (Dell XPS 8920) I set Defer Quality Updates to zero then clicked check for updates.

HTH

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

1 user thanked author for this post.

woody

Reply | Quote

I updated two Win10 Pro 1709 VMs – one on 9/17 and one on 9/20. Both got  Build 16299.665.

I updated a Win10 Pro 1803 VM on 9/21 – Build 17134.285

All three are set SAC, delay feature 365, delay quality 0, no pause.

Reply | Quote

Yep. That’s what I guessed, seeing your post in the other thread.

Whotta mess.

Reply | Quote

Same with me – changed quality to 0 for test’s sake, got upgraded to 17134.285. Went back to 30 days.

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

Reply | Quote

Just another guess. At least the following two fixes had been solved quite a whlie ago alreday. Also, no issues with these two on my machine. Strange they put them on the list AGAIN:

„Addresses an issue in which Background Apps settings the user configured are lost when the device restarts because of incorrect registry ACLs.“

and

„Addresses an issue with a task that has a repetition setting. The task fails to be scheduled and doesn’t start after disabling and re-enabling the task. The Next Run Time in Task Scheduler displays the correct time, but the task doesn’t start at that time.“

Maybe all the other fixes also had been solved already berfore?

Reply | Quote

Sorry, forgot to mention, this is for 1803.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

Reply | Quote

I’m on v1709 with Quality Updates set to 30 – I have no reason to change this setting so all I ever see presented is Defender virus updates.

When I do set QU to 0 days, I invoke windows update to check for available patches from the command line so as to not trigger an automatic  download if any are found as  would occur if I had clicked on “Check for Updates”.

c:\windows\system32\UsoClient.exe StartScan

1 user thanked author for this post.

woody

Reply | Quote

When “set QU to 0 days,” the automatic check and download of updates will eventually occur even without clicking on “Check for updates.” I assume you return to QU 30 days right after you invoke UsoClient from the command line.

Reply | Quote

Yes, when I’m done, I reset QU back to 30 days. However, my group policy settings are set to advise me of available updates but not download them. So even if Windows performs its scheduled checks, nothing gets auto-downloaded.

 

With these settings and using the command line to initiate a check manually, as long as you never click on the Check for Updates button, you can avoid downloading anything when all you want is to know what may be available.

Reply | Quote

After reading the article I went to check for updates. My workstation (Win 10 Pro) was on 17134.285. It’s updating now to whatever mess MS wants to send to my machine. I presume the update, KB4464218, is to smooth the way for the next feature update in a couple of weeks, or so. I’ve already tested several Linux distros on my machine. Linux Mint works well. But, since I can boot to it via USB drive, I’m waiting for Windows 10 to be borked before installing it and leaving Windows 10 behind. Laziness is what it is. Anger at being borked, should it happen, is the only thing that will motivate me to leave Windows behind. Meanwhile, Workstation 2 is running great, faster than 1, on Windows 7 SP1. Windows 10 used to be faster. Now, it’s a real dog compared to 7.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

Reply | Quote

I have 1803 Home on a laptop and a desktop. On 9/20/18, the laptop checked for updates automatically and I got the 4458469 update and the .319 build version. I use the laptop more than the desktop, and didn’t use the desktop until 9/22. After it automatically checked for updates, I did not get the 4458649 update. I did “seek” for updates on it a couple of times on both 9/22 and 9/23, but the 4458649 update never showed up. The build version on it is .286, but checking the registry settings it shows .319 as current.

I have not noticed any issues on the laptop after the update. Haven’t checked the desktop today.

This has become absolutely ridiculous. Is Microsoft hiding something or do they truly not have a clue what is going on? I don’t think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.

Communicate with and listen to your users Microsoft. PLEASE COMMUNICATE AND LISTEN!!

Reply | Quote

In 10th paragraph of CW article, the 1803 build should be 17134.319 not .139

1 user thanked author for this post.

woody

Reply | Quote

Yikes!

Thanks.

Reply | Quote

Hey Woody,

Win10 Home laptop. Last weekend, un-metered wifi, used wushowhide to hide 1803 and installed 1709 CU. Metered wifi again. Everything good for a week. Yesterday, I look at the screen, and my machine is installing an update. I’m now at 1803 17134.112.

At this point, do I stay at 1803 and grab the latest updates, or roll back to 1709?

Reply | Quote

My 1709’s are at 16299.665, SAC, Feature updates = 120 days, quality updates = 14 days, automatic update set to 4 (scheduled install). Last update installed was KB4023057 on 9/20; no issues so far. Last check for updates appears to have been 3:51 AM this morning 9/24. If I ‘seek’, all I pull is a Defender definitions update.

Reply | Quote

GreatAndPowerfulTech wrote:

After reading the article I went to check for updates. My workstation (Win 10 Pro) was on 17134.285. It’s updating now to whatever mess MS wants to send to my machine. I presume the update, KB4464218, is to smooth the way for the next feature update in a couple of weeks, or so. I’ve already tested several Linux distros on my machine. Linux Mint works well. But, since I can boot to it via USB drive, I’m waiting for Windows 10 to be borked before installing it and leaving Windows 10 behind. Laziness is what it is. Anger at being borked, should it happen, is the only thing that will motivate me to leave Windows behind. Meanwhile, Workstation 2 is running great, faster than 1, on Windows 7 SP1. Windows 10 used to be faster. Now, it’s a real dog compared to 7.

The update moved the version number from .285 to .286. Weird.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

Reply | Quote

The following information was given by the Microsoft chat support some minutes ago:

They are aware of the issue with KB4458469. This update is marked internal for causing serious problems for upcoming other updates (RS5?).  That’s why it’s not distributed via Windows Update anymore and why it will be replaced with another update very soon. They don’t recommend to download and install manually, but just to wait until the new corrected update will be delivered.

At least that’s what she said.

Reply | Quote

So does this mean those of us who got the update should uninstall it or will the update to fix the update remove it and fix whatever problems the original update could cause?

 

Reply | Quote

I’m sure just waiting for the next one will do the job. Otherwise they would have removed it from the Update Catalogue, but they haven’t. I would do just nothing, meaning leave it as it is. Remember when they first came up with these microcode updates? We all had to install manually. They weren’t available via Win Update. Meantime everybody is getting them automatically. So at the end you don’t have to worry about update issues, except when having a broken Update service.

Reply | Quote

It just so happens that my 13 day quality update delay expired today and so the following now show up in update history:

v Quality Updates (3)

2018-09 Security Update for Adobe Flash Player for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4457146)
Successfully installed on 9/24/2018

2018-09 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4457128)
Successfully installed on 9/24/2018

2018-09 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4343909)
Successfully installed on 8/19/2018

> Definition Updates (50)

v Other Updates (3)

Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 – September 2018 (KB890830)
Successfully installed on 9/24/2018

Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool x64 – August 2018 (KB890830)
Successfully installed on 8/19/2018

2018-08 Security Update for Adobe Flash Player for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4343902)
Successfully installed on 8/19/2018

Winver reports Version 1803 (OS Build 17134.285)

If you really want to go spelunking you should start by getting Nir Sofer’s ESEDatabaseView – View/Open ESE Database Files (Jet Blue / .edb files) and get ESEDatabaseView v1.61 Copyright (c) 2013 – 2018 Nir Sofer

In Windows 7 it always showed the available applicable patches. The Urls can be used for direct downloads for use with DISM.

If Windows Update happens to be running (mine was not) you will need to stop it first.

Run ESEDatabaseView.exe

File menu:
Open SoftwareDistribution Database

Options menu:
Save File Encoding > Always UTF-8
Auto Detect 64-bit Date/Time Value
Show Binary URL As String

From the drop-down menu choose:
tbFiles (mine has 4838 entries)

View menu:
Choose columns => uncheck whatever you don’t want to see, especially all the SHA* Digest stuff. For this list here I have kept only Size,Modified,Name

File menu:
Save All Items…
Save as type:
Comma Delimited Text File (*.csv)
[tbFiles-size-modified-name.csv]

Then
findstr /c:”-KB” tbFiles-size-modified-name.csv

21704823,6/5/2018 7:12:27 PM,Windows10.0-KB4287903-X64.cab
21689797,5/1/2018 7:41:47 PM,Windows10.0-KB4103729-X64.cab
46625016,8/7/2018 8:40:11 PM,Windows-KB890830-x64-V5.63.exe
21714743,8/6/2018 11:20:06 AM,Windows10.0-KB4343902-x64.cab
21692015,6/28/2018 9:16:38 PM,Windows10.0-KB4338832-X64.cab
44539656,6/28/2018 8:59:41 PM,Windows-KB890830-x64-V5.62.exe
43520264,6/3/2018 8:56:36 PM,Windows-KB890830-x64-V5.61.exe
96745501,7/9/2018 8:08:29 PM,Windows10.0-KB4343669-x64.psf
4695808333,8/8/2018 12:58:42 PM,Windows10.0-KB4343909-x64.psf
19116626,8/8/2018 12:58:42 PM,Windows10.0-KB4343909-x64-EXPRESS.cab
281024,7/9/2018 8:08:29 PM,Windows10.0-KB4343669-x64-EXPRESS.cab
771219439,8/8/2018 12:58:12 PM,Windows10.0-KB4343909-x64.cab
13774462,7/9/2018 8:08:29 PM,Windows10.0-KB4343669-x64.cab
14050552,8/7/2018 8:39:59 PM,Windows-KB890830-x64-V5.63-delta.exe
11148040,6/28/2018 8:59:35 PM,Windows-KB890830-x64-V5.62-delta.exe
98144025,9/5/2018 7:47:44 PM,Windows10.0-KB4456655-x64.psf
792081901,9/9/2018 9:05:55 AM,Windows10.0-KB4457128-x64.cab
4855051050,9/9/2018 9:06:19 AM,Windows10.0-KB4457128-x64.psf
19885646,9/9/2018 9:06:19 AM,Windows10.0-KB4457128-x64-EXPRESS.cab
13989634,9/5/2018 7:48:06 PM,Windows10.0-KB4456655-x64.cab
275292,9/5/2018 7:47:44 PM,Windows10.0-KB4456655-x64-EXPRESS.cab
12274952,8/31/2018 11:45:54 AM,Windows-KB890830-x64-V5.64-delta.exe
21733771,9/4/2018 8:30:46 PM,Windows10.0-KB4457146-x64.cab

Note that KB4456655 has yet to be installed, but there is no sign of KB4464218 yet.

Happy hunting!

HP Compaq 6000 Pro SFF PC / Windows 10 Pro / 22H2
Intel®Core™2 “Wolfdale” E8400 3.0 GHz / 8.00 GB
HP ProDesk 400 G5 SFF PC / Windows 11 Pro / 23H2
Intel®Core™ “Coffee Lake” i3-8100 3.6 GHz / 16.00 GB

Reply | Quote

This is really strange, cause I got KB4464218 on Sept. 18th and so I’m on .286 now. Did they pull off that one too?

Reply | Quote

Not directly contributing to the original goal of figuring out Windows 10 automatic updates here, but possibly interesting…

For a while now I have not been able to get ANY updates via the “normal” background Windows Update activity. I believe this is because I have managed to convince the AI that I’m a pre-release tester but at the same time I’m using only a local account. TBH I don’t remember precisely how I achieved this.

Voila: A Windows 10 Pro system that can only be updated from the catalog on my command and only when it makes sense to me. I couldn’t want more – except perhaps to just have a simple, straightforward setting that would allow me to accomplish this feat without an unusual or hard to achieve combination of settings.

Updated from the catalog this morning:

It seems to me that trying to guess what the Win 10 update AI will or won’t do and when is going to become more and more difficult and frustrating as time goes on. For a long time now I have not respected Microsoft’s strategy. Having to play a game against your computer’s maker in order to get the computer to do what you want doesn’t seem like a prudent path to success.

-Noel

Reply | Quote

I think I may have misunderstood the meaning of AI.  Surely  in the case of MS and Windows 10 Updates its real meaning is Actually Inept.   Considering the run around I have to go through month after month because of MS’s push to the clouds my new understanding makes logical sense – to me anyway. Windows 10 updating is frustrating and complex. Serously looking for an alternative to MS.

As always thanks to Woody and Co.

Reply | Quote

If it helps, Win10 Home 1709, with metered connection. No seeking on my part. Sunday Aus time I get a notification that ‘We can’t finish downloading your update’. I ran wushowhide and hid all the updates including the cumulative update.

(But do note that a few weeks ago it automagically upgraded to me to 1803 even across a metered connection and without seeking – I think it was also a Sunday.)

Reply | Quote

I am at Win10 Pro v1709, build 16299.665.  I have mine set to a metered connection. I don’t go seeking (why go looking for trouble?).  I have opened the “Update & security” menu, just to see if anything gets dropped into the “Windows Update” section at the top.  Nothing yet.  I have my settings locked down very tightly, not just with the metered connection and deferring updates.  I went into the Registry and shut off the Update function. I have no need for Microsoft to give me whatever they deem “good”.  I do manual updates by loading from the Catalog and also run MBSA to verify that my updates are keeping my system secure.
I most likely won’t upgrade to 1803 and will wait until 1809 is really ready for prime time.

Windows 10 Pro x64 v1909, Windows 7 Home Premium x64, Windows Vista Home Premium x64

Reply | Quote

I had installed KB4458469 via Windows Update last Thursday, 9/20/2018, and today I’m getting it again. It appears to have been re-released today, 9/26/2018, according to the date now shown at https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4458469/windows-10-update-kb4458469 (although I can see no difference in the list of 50+ issues fixed).

It now has an extra note which increases the build number:
Note This update has been re-released because of a missing solution. If you installed build 17134.319, please install this newer version of OS build 17134.320.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, ch100, woody

Reply | Quote

Grooooooooooooooooaaaan.

Reply | Quote

Thanks @b
This is a sign that you should already forget about 1803 and move on to the latest and greatest 1809

Reply | Quote

I just checked KB4458469 @ microsoft.com and BINGO, it’s been re-released on September 26th because of a missing solution. I’m a “seeker” myself without any deferring whatsoever so obviously V2 was automatically installed.

Reply | Quote