Help for freezing PC

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Win 7 HPrem, 6MB RAM, Asus P6T Deluxe Mobo, Nvidia 285GTX, Asus DX2 soundcard, 2 optical drives, USB Floppy drive/reader, 1000W Thermaltake Toughpower PS. I use MBAM, AVAST, and Super-AntiSpyware regularly.

PC began random freezes during POST. The first lockup I got gave me two minidump files that I read with WhoCrashed, telling me the cause was my Nvidia driver that happened to be the latest WHQL certified driver 301.42. I replaced the driver with an older WHQL certified(the number escapes me at the moment). I just doubt that conclusion. I had been using the Nvidia 301.42 since it came out in April. Anyhow I changed the driver. No joy…..

The next bootup problem occurred when the PC froze at the black Windows flag screen, the PC rebooted itself and asked if I wanted to do a startup repair that yielded the conclusion under “Problem Signature 07: Bad Driver. The diagnosis & repair details were: “A recent driver or upgrade may be preventing the system from starting.” I had done no driver updates or upgrades of any type except for the Nvidia driver in April and Windows updates as required

So I decide to make use of a recent system image, with no issues and with a barebones install of Windows. I did all the Windows updates,installed AVAST and PC boots up to the desktop and freezes. Event Viewer only shows that the PC shut down unexpectedly. I have to reboot. I let the PC sit awhile and start it and it gets to the black windows screen and hard freezes.

I installed a temperature monitor and the cores are running 38-41 degs C; right now I’m running memtest. I also did the .Net framework repair because my PC seemed to slow down after that update. I have no hardware attached to my desktop now other than keyboard and mouse. Everything else has been removed. If I am able to get the machine to run, it does so without an issue. I haven’t re-seated any of the components yet. The status of my hard drives appears to be “healthy”.

I would appreciate some assistance about what to do next. I am stumped about what could be causing the freezing. Thanks.

Diane

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Sounds like you already checked the most common reasons for hangs. Can you boot into Safe Mode without hanging? Also, Open up the PC and make sure the fan on the video card is running. I fixed one PC that had a slow fan on the video card that caused the system to randomly crash. Do you have access to a spare video card you could try to eliminate the Nvidea card as a cause?

Jerry

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Jerry:

Thanks for answering. PC always freezes on first bootup in the AM. Tomorrow morning, I will attempt to bootup in Safe Mode. Question…if it boots into Safe Mode, then what would be the next thing? Would that give a clue as to the cause?

I don’t have a spare video card; I’m not sure how to check fan speeds or how I would know if the fans are running slowly. I’m going to have my husband do the power supply check. I also might have him clear CMOS while he’s in there, but I don’t know what else to try. I also found in my reading to try Seagate’s SeaTools to check out my 2 hard drives. I hope I can figure this out as I’m sure these reboots aren’t really good for the components. Thanks again.

Diane

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If your system doesn’t crash upon startup and runs fine in safemode, then that would tends to point to a driver issue.
If you still do get crashes in safemode, then I would be suspicious about a hardware issue, specifically the GPU, since you are already getting GPU related errors.
You can also try reseating the GTX and checking the power cable too, also ensure that the memory is seated firlmly as well.

The CPU temps are a bit warm for a freshly turned on computer at idle, but still well within specs.
If your CPU heatsink and fan were loose then I would suspect the temps would be alot higher, but you should check on it all the same,
as long as your in there looking.

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In many cases a visual check of the video card fan will tell you its not spinning fast or even not spinning at all. In the PC I experienced the problem , the fan would alternate between spinning slowly and faster.

If it boots into Safe Mode, that indicates a driver, Service, or startup item is causing your problem. You could try using the Clean Boot diagnostic procedure to narrow the problem down. See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/331796 . ignore the Microsoft Fixit that pops up and read the procedure. If it hangs in Clean boot and not in safe mode, its probably a driver issue.

Jerry

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If it’s freezing during POST, it’s hardware.

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So, I finished Memtest, no issues. Ran SeaTools and both drives passed.

This morning I was able to get the PC to boot in Safe Mode and restarted the machine successfully and I’m using it now w/o an issue.

So I haven’t done a Clean Boot Diagnostic because I’ve never had to, which I presume is the next step. Since this PC seems to only act up after it’s been off for a good while, how will I be able to tell which driver is the culprit?

Should I still have the power supply tested? We are going to open up the case clean it and reseat everything.

I am thinking about the optional updates I allowed Windows to do when I first restored the PC. Windows recommended the Nvidia driver be updated, along with the Marvell Yukon driver for my onboard network adapter. I allowed Windows to update my Razer Lachesis mouse and my Razer Lycosa keyboard. For some reason the keyboard appears twice on the list of updates. Windows updated “ATK-system-ATK0110 ACPI utility, whatever that is. What I did not allow to be updated was the “Marvell Inc-storage-Marvell 61xx RAID Controller” because I don’t have a RAID setup. Maybe that was a mistake.

I also thought about loading the video driver from disk that came with this PC when it was new, but I got two video driver errors for two different WHQL certified drivers and I doubt those drivers are at fault. Thanks for your help and patience.

Diane

PS After I wrote the above message, I shut the PC down for awhile about 2 hours or so; I just now tried to boot into Windows in normal mode and was stuck on the ‘Welcome” screen. The little circle stopped spinning…..so I can’t CTL-ALT-DEL, but must reset. When I do, I get the desktop background, taskbar and no icons. I move the mouse and I get the Windows startup sound and miraculously everything on the desktop, icons and gadgets all appear.

When I go to Event Viewer, I see 19 Service Control Manager errors but these all have to do with the Safe Mode bootup.Several of them have to do with Network Service and are ID7001’s, i.e., DNS client service depends on TDI support drivers which failed to start because a device attached to the system is not functioning; winsock service failed to start because a device attached to the sytem is not functioning; following boot, start or system start driver failed to load and on and on…..I did not find any such messages after the hangup in normal mode. Sorry if this is just too much info, but I am floundering a bit now. There were also a half dozen or so DCom errors.

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The Razer drivers are likely to be part of the problem, try the latest from the Razer site or force Windows Device Manager to load it as a standard mouse type (this should disable/unload the Razer drivers) to test.

All 3rd party drivers are best updated via the chipset/device makers sites, Microsoft/Device Manager updated drivers are frequently many months behind.

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My main protocol for driver updates is don’t. As for driver updates through Windows Update, never.

Unless there is a specific, identifiable issue that points directly to a driver, there is no real reason for updating a driver.

If a driver issue starts showing up on normally long-running trouble-free hardware, there’s a better chance that it’s the hardware itself, and not the driver.

As satrow said in post #6, if it’s freezing during POST, it’s hardware. I have seen a power supply give all the symptoms of a bad motherboard, and yet the power supply itself checked good with a quality power supply tester. Swapping it out for a known-good power supply was the cure; this after changing out the motherboard twice.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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So I decide to make use of a recent system image, with no issues and with a barebones install of Windows. I did all the Windows updates,installed AVAST and PC boots up to the desktop and freezes. Event Viewer only shows that the PC shut down unexpectedly. I have to reboot. I let the PC sit awhile and start it and it gets to the black windows screen and hard freezes.

Diane,

Hello… Am i correct in understanding that after your “Image Install” all was OK ? Then after Avast , and Windows Updates, you then started to have problems again?:cheers: Regards Fred

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Fred, that’s right…Windows was running kind of slow and it has been a habit of mine to clean install Windows about once a year or so to avoid this kind of stuff so I did a clean Windows install and used that install image with just an Nividia driver, 301.42 and Avast to create a system image. It’s when I got started with adding the Windows updates and “my gotta haves” like MBAM, SAS that I began having these problems.

I don’t mind starting over with a clean Windows install, but I don’t have a clue what I will get this time. I do want my husband to check the power supply though before wiping the system clean. I am not good with hardware. He is.

I’m going to remove the drivers for the keyboard and mouse and just run them as HID’s temporarily.To be on the safe side, I have re-run MBAM, Avast and I haven’t installed SAS back in because I haven’t gotten that far in getting the PC back to where it was. I ran the Kaspersky online scanner and it found no problems with viruses, malware or protection.

I appreciate all suggestions.Thanks to all.

Diane

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Okay, I uninstall my Razer mouse and keyboard, use HID generic devices, I bootup,go thru POST, get to the desktop, open FFox and lockup hard. I then put in my Win7 disk and start a clean install. I will do no hardware updating, will get just my anti-virus and do a few Windows updates at a time and then reboot. Very, very frustrating, but I’m using a generic kb & mouse, so if anything was left in the system of the Windows updates, they are now gone.

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I logged on to my PC this morning which was when I experienced the freezeups….with the generic keyboard and mouse, Windows vanilla video driver, no sound, AVAST and all Windows updates incl SP1. It was the first successful bootup in a while. I would guess the reason why my system image did not work was probably because of the hardware updates that I had done thru Windows for the mouse, KB, videocard and onboard network card. Lesson well learned….if PC keeps running like this.

I was able to get online and get FFox installed and clicking on a website didn’t crash me yet. I checked EV and the startup looks very clean. I’ll get sound card drivers installed next and move a bit cautiously as I add my stuff back in. Thanks to all who offered their help. Hopefully, hardware failure won’t be/isn’t an issue.

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[Quote]
Help for freezing PC
[/Quote]
I find it best to vacuum pack your PC before freezing, it will keep longer this way.
HTH

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What would be more helpful would be a DBK…:)

Anyhow, added soundcard drivers, MBAM and the .Net Framework updates I rec’d notice for this morning. Let the PC cool down for awhile, and then rebooted.

No issues so far, but HDD a mess- am defragging.

Unless I have more issues will post back in a few more days with presumably a final conclusion. Thanks again to the fine members of this forum.

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Just because your computer boots does not rule out a hardware problem. Remember, your computer was having random freezes at post. Keep your graphics card in mind if the problems reoccur. If your mobo has onboard video, make sure it is not disabled in the BIOS and remove your graphics card. Windows will detect it as a new piece of harware and install the drivers. If your problems seem to go away, then you know what to do. But as you already have planned, fist thing to do with a suspect hardware issue is to reseat all your devices. Good luck

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Thanks for your note….I have been pretty watchful of what’s going on as I fine tune the system. And, I have thought about the possibility of the PC still having probs. After all, my 3 yr parts/labor warranty is just about over. :rolleyes:

I haven’t yet updated the video driver from the one Windows installed. My Asus P6T Deluxe V2 does not have onboard video.

Devices will be reseated tomorrow along with a thorough cleaning and checking the speed of the fans as was previously recommended. I’ll do the video then and see what happens. Thanks again.

Diane

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The PC was opened up, hardware and memory was reseated– soundcard; video card was removed and fan was cleaned of dust; CPU & V8 cooler were okay; all fans appeared to be running full speed with no variations. Checked for “bulging” components.

PC is 60% restored with regard to software; still using generic KB & mouse; as soon as software is all complete, then I’ll do a system image before updating the video driver to something better than the Msoft vanilla one and do my Razer KB & mouse; so far no anomalies on POST or otherwise. Doing a bit at a time so if there is an issue, I’ll know where it starts.

D

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Reads like you’re making good progress, Diane.

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I think so….4th morning in a row with no glitches on AM bootup. I can only conclude if the PC keeps running like this…software/driver issue was the cause and a lesson learned about not using WU for hardware driver updates.

If all goes well, one more post after I do the system image, update the video driver and do my Razer hardware.

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I would lean towards creating an image before the Razer drivers, based on the apparent increase in frequency of BSOD’s where older Razer drivers appear to be implicated in some way.

If you’re still on vanilla Windows graphics drivers, updating to the ‘real’ drivers is likely to add more strain to the PSU as they will make fuller use of the GPU power; if you get problems after upgrading the drivers, it may not be the drivers at fault but the PSU struggling to power everything.

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That’s the plan…do the image before potential trouble spots. After the image, then video and then the Razer hardware.

Diane

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Good to know we’re still on the same track Diane, having someone do a step by step like this gives me greater confidence in what I think I’m seeing when it comes to debugging BSOD’s for others with similar drivers and problems reported.

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My thanks for hanging in there with me thru the troubleshooting!

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Away for a few days and now have the time to do the final diag on my bootup issues. I created a restore point and installed WHQL 296.10 the Nvidia driver I used for several months before my lockup issues. I rebooted the PC after the install. I did a custom install w/o the 3D stuff which has caused some folks w/o 3D capability, problems.

During the reboot, when the desktop appeared it took a bit for my desktop icons to appear, but everybody showed up. I rebooted again with no issues. Tomorrow morning will be the test because that’s when the bootup freezing always show up. Will be back tomorrow AM. Happy 4th to those who celebrate the holiday!

Diane

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This is the deal….I booted up this morning and there were no issues. I haven’t yet added my Razer mouse and keyboard, both of which are backlit, but can’t believe a couple of LED’s would push the system over the edge.

Don’t know if there’s any other place to go other than I thought about stress testing my video card. Also, I did read of more than few folks with problems with the latest Nvidia certified driver, 301.42. But now I just don’t know what the problem is/was. Maybe something is still on the edge of failing, but today I’m up and running. For now, I will leave well enough alone. Thanks for all the input I rec’d here.

Diane

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It’s difficult to be sure of what’s going when trying to diagnose problems remotely Diane, especially when my debugging ‘skills’ are minimal. What I can say from my experience is that the older Razer drivers do seem to be cropping up more frequently as likely candidates in cases of BSOD’s. Why this is, I really don’t know, it may be because some of them are only rehashed Vista -era drivers, it might be because more recent MSFT Updates and/or recent 3rd party drivers are causing them to behave badly, not cutting them enough slack anymore.

As I suggested to someone in a similar position yesterday, loaning them out to be used on a Vista or XP system for a couple of weeks might give us more clues as to what’s happened.

If you want to stress test/diagnose your hardware further, there are tools and methods listed here.

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FurMark was one stress test I had read about..scary tho’. I can my stuff going up in smoke.:) I think it would be more fun to load up a graphics intensive game and see what happens. I’ll have to pick one…there are many of them in this house. Thanks for the list of diag tools.

My hub has a computer that is much less complicated than mine. Maybe I can talk him into the Razer and I take back my wireless Logitech. Let’s hope for the best!

Diane

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Presumably my last post in this thread…all is still well.

No glitches on POST, no stop errors or minidumps. Hopefully PC will keep up the decent performance. No evidence that I can see of anything failing and I hope it stays that way.

D.

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Good to hear it!

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