Hello! Has anyone seen 2004?

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PATCH WATCH By Susan Bradley Have you received the May feature release of Windows 10 — aka Version 2004? So here it’s the start of August — 68 days af
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r1ma, Elly, jburk07, abbodi86, woody

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Microsoft wording has changed from : “your machine isn’t worthy”, “your machine isn’t “ready” for Win10 2004″… to “2004 isn’t ready for your machine.”

The Windows 10 May 2020 Update is on its way. Once it’s ready for your device, you’ll see the update available on this page.

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r1ma

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Yes, just looked at my laptop and the feature update message is exactly as you quote.  I’m still not really interested in installing even if it was.  I’ll continue to wait a few months to let the bugs “iron out”.

Thanks.

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I haven’t yet, Susan, but to be honest, I’m still not in a hurry.  lolololol

 

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What does this mean for the average PC user? Not much — the same rules apply: install previews only on test PCs; to keep them off your production/personal systems, do not click “Check for updates.” As we have said many times, clicking that option does not simply show available updates — it installs them

So does “Resume Updates” now.   I just did so to pick up the July updates and the very first one to be installed was July 21, 2020-KB4562900 Cumulative Update Preview for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 1903 and Windows Server 1903 RTM and Windows 10, version 1909 and Windows Server, version 1909.

This was even before the 2020-07 Cumulative Update was even downloaded, let alone installed.

Hurry, a trustworthy 2004!!

 

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jburk07

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Yep, that’s what I saw. The problem is that Windows Update now has two completely different versions, running simultaneously.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3569589/despite-an-unexpected-monkey-wrench-now-is-the-time-to-install-the-july-windows-and-office-patches.html

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jburk07

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I think they can enhance the optional update section to offer 2 or 3 updates simultaneously:
the next Feature Update
the Preview Windows Cumulative Update
the Preview .NET Cumulative update

but that would mean they will slowly restore old Windows Update panel (W7/W8.1) behavior

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jburk07

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[abbodi86]

They fulfilled my suggestion
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/improving-the-update-discoverability-experience/ba-p/1585674

not sure if the Preview .NET CU will show up in the new section, but it’s good to have the first two together

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by abbodi86.

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Microsoft has added drivers updates to optional updates (removing from device manager)

https://www.ghacks.net/2020/08/14/microsoft-extends-optional-updates-feature-in-windows-10/

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I can confirm “resume updates” will also install the .net preview on 1909. It did for me anyway.

To answer the original question though, yes I had 2004 offered as an optional “download and install” at this round of patching (yesterday)

I declined to download and install it at this point.

 

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Hi Susan

Vesrion 2004 (OS Build 19041.388) has arrived on my main desktop system but not on my older HP desktop.  Seems fine at present.  Martin

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yes I received it mid June on my pro 64 bit Dell XPS 2720. A few days later, after no issues, I went and got it for my pro 64 bit MS surface pro 3 using upgrade assistant for verification. I paused updates on both delaying patches for a couple of weeks. I’m tech savvy, not a heavy user and encountered no issues on either machine.

yes I can confirm that resume updates also intalled July .net preview KB 4562899 on both machines in the last several days. These preview updates show up as Other updates in Update History.

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what kind of Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon laptop does patch lady Susan use since there are so many versions of X1 Carbon and that they go by “generation”?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_X1_Carbon

if her X1 Carbon laptop uses Conexant audio drivers, then that could be one reason why it’s not getting the 2004 feature update – MS is blocking the 2004 upgrade because of outdated Conexant audio drivers that need to be updated.

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X1 Carbon 2nd Gen (Type 20A7, 20A8) Laptop (ThinkPad) – Type 20A7

Realtec drivers, but while I’m on the site I’m making sure stuff is up to date so thanks for reminding me.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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There’s still no updated Conexant drivers for pretty much any HP machine I’ve seen. One of them is less than a year old and still covered under a 3 year warranty. It’s concerning that these machines could go out of support while still in warranty if no driver is released.

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Have you contacted HP about it?

It seems to me that if they offer no working drivers for a machine still under warranty, that would mean it no longer works as it was supposed to at the time you bought it, and is therefore defective and in need of service.

I’ve often obtained necessary drivers for my Windows machines from sources other than the computer’s OEM, as the whole ditty about “get them from your OEM, since they might have modified them” is almost never true. I’ve used HP, Lenovo, etc., drivers on computers that weren’t HP or Lenovo.

Still, HP should have usable drivers if the thing is under warranty still.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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I’m happy to wait for the time being as I don’t have an urgent need for 2004, but if the upgrade block remains in place for another couple of months I think I will contact HP.

Conexant drivers are so awkward. You generally need to modify them to get them to work on machines or OEMs other than what they were intended for (and potentially run into signature issues). IDT were the exact same in their day. I wish they just stuck with Realtek chips on these machines; at least their drivers are readily available and not so tied to specific hardware.

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Well whaddya know? Just today, I see HP just released updates for the ZBook 15 G5 and ProBook 440 G3. Looks like I’m fine! The ZBook update definitely wasn’t there this morning.

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I’ve 2004 offered on my W10 64 Home & W10 64 Pro machines.
I’m watching tech info sites for consensus.
One day I’ll have ‘Green-4-Go’; certainly, ‘Not-2-Day’.

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My experience was similar to PFC above. My HP Omen 7th Generation Intel Core i7 7700HQ laptop running a fully updated version 1909 Win 10 Home on 128 GB SSD drive with 8 GB RAM and 80 GB available on the SSD was offered version 2004 on 06/16/2020, which was downloaded and installed without any problems that day (although it took nearly 3 hours). The two 2020-07 preview cumulative updates were available and were installed yesterday as “other updates.”  Have had no problems with any of these updates/upgrades as of today. The version 2004 upgrade does generate numerous ESENT warnings in the event log (still); but simply ignoring them hasn’t seemed to make any difference in the operation of the laptop so far.

 

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It’s being offered to me on an old Lenovo W530 that I brought home to use as an extra workstation during the quarantine. It’s not joined to any domain, so it’s kinda like a home machine. It’s at least 7 years old, likely older, but I have upgraded the drive to SSD and added RAM to bring it up to 12 GB. It was Windows 10 Pro 1909, just kicked off the upgrade to 2004.

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Susan, As I read your article just now (Aug. 3) I checked for updates and Windows reports that version 2004 is waiting for download.  I did not try to get it yet, but it is available on my desktop PC.

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Thanks for the articles you write… always a blessing!

My Dell XPS 8920 Win 10 Home is showing “download and install” but I’m waiting for others to make the sacrifice since this is my main machine for business purposes.

Not sure if that means system is ok on this machine, or that it will place me in a queue until they “think” it will be OK. :^o

Appreciate your advice and wisdom.

Blessings, kmack

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yes…  most of the customer machines coming across the bench have 2004 offered in windows update.  we are not installing it.

Hey look! Another Feature Update!

You mean I shouldn't click Check for Updates?

Where is the Any key?

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+1000 for Susan’s non-political “make sure you’re registered to vote”!

Jim

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I have received and installed it on both of our desktop CyberPower PCs.  On is an MSI Z390 MB with an 8 gen i7 CPU, an M.2 NVME disk, and a Gforce 1050 graphics card.  The other PC is an ASUS Z490 MB with a 10th gen i7 CPU, two M.2 NVME disks, and a Gforce 2080 graphics card.  No problems installing or operations afterwards.

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Yes Susan, My desktop has been offered 2004 to download. per your suggestion, I am on hold with download.

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Think yourself lucky if you’ve not recieved it. Woody does not recommend it yet as far as I know.

illegitimi Non Carborundum

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This latest upgrade to Microsoft’s Windows 10 2004 Feature is very much like “The Virus” in that it is constantly Mutating!

My Home Edition 3-Year old second hand used HP Desktop and recently purchased (January 2020) HP Laptop both received the Seal of Approval to upgrade to Windows 10 2004 the same time approx a month ago.

I have NOT paused any MS monthly updates this year. That Update feature to Windows 10 2004 is still waiting to be started. If it ain’t broke don’t upgrade it!

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Saw the update this morning on two of my home machines.   Installed first on my test laptop and there were no problems with a couple of minor exceptions.    Now installed on my primary gaming machine.

The only issue / oddity … the upgrade wipes out my desktop personalization i.e picture and colors.   Have to reset it.   Also all the passwords are purged out including those saved to the Outlook password file.   Had to repopulate them.   Don’t recall having to do this with previous version upgrades.

Otherwise appears to be working fine.

 

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Sure sounds like you got hit with the disappearing profile bug.

Did you have any files in, say, Documents that disappeared?

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No … all my personal documents are there.   Hadn’t even thought about that.

But I keep my documents on a different drive to Windows … changed all the locations to another drive from where Windows installs (C drive).

 

 

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Microfix

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One of my PCs had a message saying 2004 was on the way and that I would be informed when it was ready. Does this mean it is trickle downloading now? Or does it mean there’s something that is not compatible with my hardware which they are working on fixing?

Wouldn’t it be nice if Microsoft could take the confusion out of Windows 10?

Byte me!

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[Alex5723]

pHROZEN gHOST wrote:

does it mean there’s something that is not compatible with my hardware which they are working on fixing?

Yes, it means 2004 isn’t ready for your PC (as it isn’t ready for my PC) due to hardware, drivers, software…incompatibility).

There is no guaranty that this incompatibility will be solved in the future.

I went over APPRAISER_TelemetryBaseline_20H1 log to see if I can find the reason for the block. The only thing I found is a not compatible Logitech process :

MigXmlValue <component context=”UserAndSystem” type=”Application”>
<displayName>LogitechLogiLDA__1__PART</displayName>
<role role=”Settings”>
<rules context=”System”>
<windowsObjects>
<objectSet>
<!–This will remove the following from the RUN key during upgrades “Logitech Download Assistant”=”C:\\Windows\\system32\\rundll32.exe C:\\Windows\\System32\\LogiLDA.dll,LogiFetch”–>
<!–Plugging in the Logitech devices after upgrade, adds it back to the run keys again.–>
<pattern type=”Registry”>HKLM\SOFTWARE\MICROSOFT\WINDOWS\CURRENTVERSION\RUN [Logitech Download Assistant]</pattern>
<pattern type=”Registry”>HKLM\SOFTWARE\WOW6432NODE\MICROSOFT\WINDOWS\CURRENTVERSION\RUN [Logitech Download Assistant]</pattern>

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Alex5723.

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Hi Susan,

Another weird one from Microsoft. I have a store-bought Dell Inspiron with Win 10 Pro. Other than my removing all Dell software, and increasing the RAM, it’s a pretty standard home PC. Oddly, I was offered 2004 in early June, and it remained on the updates page until recently. It was ‘available’ when I allowed the cumulative update toward the end of July, but today, it’s gone!

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Hello Susan,

Yes I have a Dell desktop computer and Microsoft found my machine to be worthy.   2004 was installed on my computer a month ago.  This computer is strictly for my personal use.   I do find that the computer is a bullheaded at times.  By this I mean, sometimes I have found it to be working in the background but nothing shows in task master to trigger this working.  Sometimes I have found the computer to be completely frozen not being able to click on any icon, nor open my web browser.

 

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WSgapch12 wrote:

Sometimes I have found the computer to be completely frozen not being able to click on any icon, nor open my web browser

Open a new thread and we can troubleshoot it with you.

cheers, Paul

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WSgapch12 wrote:

Sometimes I have found the computer to be completely frozen not being able to click on any icon, nor open my web browser

Open a new thread and we can troubleshoot it with you

 

Paul,  This past week everything is humming along just fine.  No freezing, no unable to click on any icon and I been able to open my web browser as I please.

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If you “Resume Updates” to get the July updates (as per advice recently posted here on Ask Woody), then it appears that you get the .NET update whether you want it or not – that was the case with my machine.

Having said that, I did the above over the weekend, and so far nothing detrimental has happened.

I’m just reporting this for information only.  I’m definitely not recommending any patching outside of Woody’s and Susan’s advice.

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woody

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Fortunately the .NET Preview is benign.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3568351/windows-update-is-a-bifurcated-mess.html

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Wibbly

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I resumed updates ( vers. 1909, HP G62 laptop upgraded from Win 7), and v2004 WAS listed as available to download and install if I clicked. Chose not too. Other updates all went in, and after several checks for updates, there were none remaining (except for the optional dload and install one), so paused until 9/5/20.

BTW, along the way in your patch updates, you mention that “MS makes it difficult to upgrade to V 1909. I found that to be the case since only V 2004 is available through the media create tool.

But I was wondering (because of the way you phrased that)… IS there a way to upgrade to V1909 if I don’t have an ISO squirreled away? (My bad; didn’t think I would need that.)

I have an 1809 version, but am reluctant to try that and see if it will update eventually to 1909, plus it takes a lot of time to see… (This question is for another Win 7 machine.)

Thanks.

Chris

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Chriski wrote:

IS there a way to upgrade to V1909 if I don’t have an ISO squirreled away?

Yes, there is a way.

Download 1909 ISO from Heidoc.net (download the tool, run, select 1909).
Create a bootable USB using free Ventoy app to install 1909.

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Chriski

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(apologies for the double post.  the first one was posted before I logged in.)

I “Resumed Updates” yesterday and 2004 was installed on my Lenovo P53 laptop (that ran Win10 Pro, 1903 until then.)  I did not see an option to refuse it.  My Advanced Options, “Features” delay was set to 10 days.    I have now moved the Features delay to 365 days.
After (a long while) when 2004 had apparently installed and I could get back on the machine, I used Settings > “Recovery” > “Go back to previous OS version”  to restore my Win10 1903.
Surprisingly, that took only 10 min.
Had to then run “Check for Updates” again to bring down the patch for 1903 (Update skipped it when it determined it was going to give me 2004.)

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I’m currently on 10/1909 Home(just recently forced updated from 10/1809 end of June 2020)  and I have installed the July 2020 KBs without issue but I have never been offered 10/2004, which is fine by me. And I’ve for the first time made use of 10/1909’s pause updates(Until Sept 2020) but when I resume is there going to be the same sort of pushing out of preview updates as I really not interested in that sort of thing. I just hoping that I can make use of my laptop more often with the updates paused  for Aug 2020 until DEFCON3 arrives but MS update systems is a convoluted mess currently and so very confusing compared to 7’s update system.

I’ve no desire for 10/2004 and will want to wait 6 months to a full year at least before considering that and 10/1909 is not EOL until May 11 2021.

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When the Pause period ends (or you resume updates), the available pending updates will download and install, unless you set your network connections to metered or you hide the updates using wushowhide..
After you install updates the month’s updates, it is a good thing to wait till close to the next Patch Tuesday before resetting the Pause period, so it will last long enough to take you to the next DEFCON-3 (or greater).

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Coldheart9020

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You can make use of wushowhide to hide any Preview updates before they get installed, but it will not work when updates are paused. Before resuming updates, you can set your internet connection to metered to prevent the updates downloading.

See Sections 1 and 2 of AKB2000016 for more comprehensive information on managing updates in Win 10 Home. See also AKB2000013 for more information on the use of wushowhide to hide unwanted updates, such as Previews and even the v2004 Feature update. Hope this helps.

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As of yesterday (8/2) I got the “The next version of Windows is ready with new security and features.  Click on “download and install”.  Your computer may need to restart.

This is on my HP pavillion slimline.  My laptop, NO.

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After reading the article, I checked update page, 2004 was waiting to go.  Only thing I saw that I will probably really use is colored pointers.  I like that.

PowerSpec with AMD Rysen 5 2400G   8GB

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Just posted #2285995, didn’t realize I wasn’t logged in.

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Go ahead and post, logged in…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Coldheart9020

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My two Windows 10 PC’s have not been offered 2004, my HP notebook still has a block for a issue with audio and my desktop a home built Ryzen 2400G I manually performed a clean install of 2004 and it works fine. Honestly, their is so little to talk about with these upgrades anymore I don’t find them interesting.

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Windows 10 sent me a lot of updates in a constant stream, requiring multiple reboots.  The 2004 release was one of them, and as usual with major windows patches it messed up my sound setting and erased my customization for my 2nd monitor, requiring me to redo both.  But fortunately no system-breaking changes.

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Well I stand corrected about no issues with Windows 10 2004 … HUGE issue.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/systemwide-password-amnesia-v2004-build-19041173/232381f8-e2c6-4e8a-b01c-712fceb0e39e?page=5&rtAction=1596509933432&tm=1596509938921

It won’t remember any passwords i.e. Outlook, Google, Microsoft.

One of the suggestions is to sign in using your MS Account to reset the credentials.   Some people have been able to go back and others have to use their MS Account rather than a local account.   I am using the MS Account now to see … so far it has not prompted me.

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[Coldheart9020]

Those considering updating to 2004 may also wish to keep an eye on this page, which documents the acknowledged issues of v2004. It might prove useful to those who are thinking of making the jump.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Coldheart9020.

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I am defeated.   After spending in excess of 8 hrs trying the various solutions at https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/systemwide-password-amnesia-v2004-build-19041173/232381f8-e2c6-4e8a-b01c-712fceb0e39e?page=5&rtAction=1596509933432&tm=1596509938921

The issues with the credential manager/passwords continue.   It looks like it is working for a while using the microsoft account sign in and then the issue returns like acne.

I had to revert back to 1909 … that fixed it.

Pausing Microsoft updates for the next 6 months.   2004 is wrought with errors in my humble opinion.

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artsgo wrote:

I have now moved the Features delay to 365 days

365 days from 1903 is NOW.
You will get 2004 again.
You can avoid 2004 if you upgrade to the recommended 1909.

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artsgo

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[legnoso]

Yes

I have two six year old 4Gb Toshibas which were on 1903.

They  both had 2004 offered  as an option to download for some time.  I had  not taken up the offer

Had them on pause for 7 days. One said ready to install updates  – just need to restart . Hit restart  – went away – came back and 2004 WAS BEING INSTALLED! Swear I did not ask for it. Hours later it was successfully installed.

Next day – I thought – well I had better keep them matched – so downloaded and installed 2004 on the other machine  I had a few palpitations when on the restart at the end got a blue screen ( as it turned out not a BSOD) . Not sure how but after a bit of fiddling it came up OK.

Sending this from my chromebook –  which just reminded me a new release is available  – I will do a restart after this – and in a couple of minutes i will have it – much easier than Windows

Edited : Actually took ONE minute

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by legnoso.

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Before I saw your “Avoid Windows 10 version 2004 STUDIOUSLY” message, I clicked on “Download and Install”.  I am using an iMac 2014 with Windows 10 in a Virtual Machine via Parallels.  I switched to Mac a few years ago and now use Windows infrequently on my machine but my wife has a PC.  So, the update ran and ran, I took a nap and came back and it looked like it might still be running but had stopped at 93% and seemed like it was no longer running.  Figured the remaining 7% would be in the reboot, even though it did not ask for it, so did a Parallels restart but not an iMac restart.  Came back to the updates screen and it had gone back to the “Feature update to Windows 10 version 2004” Window.  Avoided it STUDIOUSLY, this time, checked my version and it is still 1909, so I left it alone.

Just thought you might find this interesting behavior or non-behavior, since 2004 is very controversial right now.

Edit: Please stay on topic

Moderator note: Edit to remove HTML. Please use the “Text” tab in the entry box when you copy/paste.

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[kapnkirk]

Yep, just got 2004 this morning upon allowing updates on Dell Precision T3620. It never asked if I wanted it, just started to do it when I allowed updates.

It rebooted and is running fine after 6 hours. So that’s something.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by kapnkirk.

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 It rebooted and is running fine after 6 hours.

Computes teach patience; the faster the computer, the more teaching that goes on!

I’ve been surprised, too, about how long the 2004 update takes.  It was supposed to be a “minor” change, so I somehow thought it would install faster.

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To answer the question, yes I had 2004 offered as an optional “download and install” on the 3 machines I take care of. Been there for some time now.
I have declined to download and install it at this point.
It has installed the Update Preview KB 4562900

EDITED: html to text (from copy>paste)

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I still see this after clean installing 1909 via bootable USB recently:

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I tried booting Windows 10 on my Dell G3 laptop (i7-8750H), and it gave me the same message as above when I looked in Updates. This laptop is not that old, between 1 and 2 years of age, and doesn’t have any Conexant anything that I know about (as some have mentioned as a blocker for 2004).

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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I’ve been ignoring the 2004 update offerings, but finally decided to try it on one Win10 1909 system. It took roughly an hour to download/install/reboot which is much more than I expected. It reminded me of the 1903 update in that regards.

On another system (WinSvr2019), it hadn’t patched successfully since May and after trying all the easy fixes, I finally had to delete the cached downloads folder and start fresh. Interestingly, it automatically selected the 2004 update along with the other 5 or 6 missing patches. And, no surprise, it took over an hour to effect the updates.

The good news is I’ve not yet discovered any issues, but I’m still holding my breath before trying any others.

Greg

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I hadn’t realized that Feature Update 2004 was being offered when Windows informed me that I had to restart my computer to install updates.  A few hours later I was sorry, because it encountered the following error:

Installation Failure: Windows failed to install the following update with error 0x8007042B: Feature update to Windows 10, version 2004

Afterward, when I logged in to the computer, I launched Chrome and it started up as a new install.  Same for Firefox.  Outlook wanted my password, and QuickBooks asked me what my business was.

I looked in the C:$WINDOWS.~BTSources  folder and did not find a “rollback” folder.  But I worked my way through the exhaustive setupact.log file.  I found several instances where Windows squawked about my user profiles, and eventually errored out.  So I opened the setuperror.log file (edited and attached) and saw that this update really and truly failed. Windows simply could not find my profiles.

When I built this system, I modeled it on the one I was using for Windows 7, which used symbolic links for the C:users<username> folders which had them physically located at D:users<username>.

Microsoft touted their Windows 10 symlink advancements for third-party developers in this blog post from the end of 2016:

This new symlinks support first shipped in Windows 10 Insiders Build 14972, and will be formally delivered in Windows 10 Creators Update. We are also working with the owners of open-source community tools such as Git and npm so they know symlink improvements are coming and can make the necessary changes to better support symlinks on Windows.

However, it seems their internal processing for the feature update does not seem to handle them properly. And yet, they provide explicit instructions for how to do it: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/fileio/determining-whether-a-directory-is-a-volume-mount-point  Boggles my mind as to why they can’t/don’t…

The net result of the “rollback” was that every FILE in C:users<username>AppDataRoaming was no longer present.  All of the folders were there – it was the files that were missing.

Fortunately I have file and folder back-up on a USB 3 drive and took a few hours to get back to where I was before pressing Restart.

I have pushed Feature Updates off for 365 days.  But I don’t know what I’m going to do when I support for 1909 ends…

setuperr.log_

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joltar, woody

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This sounds to me like a similar problem:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/sysprep-win10-2004-symbolic-link-issues-with-uefi/b982e818-75b5-43d6-b703-1530fb17ba51

Do you have Developer Mode enabled?

https://www.ghacks.net/2016/12/04/windows-10-creators-update-symlinks-without-elevation/

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No to “Developer Mode” being enabled.  Hadn’t a clue that it was present.

 

 

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woody

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Regarding the first link, it sure sounds similar.

I found another post from an earlier 180x upgrade (I can’t find it now, of course), that the user solved the missing profile information by hardcoding the Registry entries for the profiles with D:\user, the blowing out the C:\User files that Windows recreated and re-establishing the symlinks.

When (or if) I have some free time later this summer, I’m going to see if I can duplicate that scenario in a VM.

But my present concerns are two-fold.  The first is: How many people – both consumer and businesses – employ symlinks to move their profiles away from a smaller OS drive to a larger non-OS drive?  The second is:  Why, after all this time, does Microsoft still hard-code any update that forces Windows to solely remain on C:\?

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woody

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@PKCano has been nudging me… this does sound a whole lot like the bug that destroyed data on the first Win10 1809 upgrade. I wonder if we’re seeing an ugly reincarnation of that monster?

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Cee Arr, WarningU2

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Yes, I assist a friend with monthly updates for Home 1909 fully updated.  Last update he was offered Feature Update to 2004.  I suggested I’d do something very physical to him if he clicked on it or  Update Now.  He is savvy enough to ask before attempting something he has never seen before or doesn’t understand.

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Hello everyone,

After upgrading to Windows 10 Version 2004 (on 08/04/2020):

I noticed that about 33 of 58 my previous installed applications’ installation dates have been updated (which erased the actual installation dates) to the day of the installation of Windows 10 Version 2004 (on 08/04/2020).

Additionally – I also did notice that within my Windows Update: View Update History –> Uninstall Updates option, a large group of my previously installed security / performance / bugfix updates’ installation dates were also updated (which erased the actual installation dates) to the day of the installation of Windows 10 Version 2004 (on 08/04/2020).

I don’t think that this was an intention of Microsoft, as I believe it is a bug.

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Actually, I think it is what Microsoft intends.   This behaviour has been present in all the version upgrades; it’s not unique to 2004.

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Instead of ‘Update now’ I really meant”Check for Updates”  My friend got the message loud and clear.

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Hi

fyi

Currently have the attached message on ONE of two identical desktops

not planning to install anytime soon !

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anonymous wrote:

After upgrading to Windows 10 Version 2004 (on 08/04/2020): I noticed that about 33 of 58 my previous installed applications’ installation dates have been updated (which erased the actual installation dates) to the day of the installation of Windows 10 Version 2004 (on 08/04/2020).

It has been that way from the beginning of Win 10 following a feature version update with the drivers in Device Manager > Events, as a ‘device migrated’ event. However, I haven’t previously noticed that with application install dates…

Until now… where I do see a number of applications whose install date is set to the date one day after the 2004 update. Which is by coincidence (?), the day that ‘Security Update for Microsoft Windows (KB4560366)’ was applied. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4560366/servicing-stack-update-for-windows-10-version-2004

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Well I have been running Win 10 Pro 2004 for 30 days now on my homebuilt Asus based Intel Ivy Bridge (3rd gen) Core desktop (upgrade from 1909).

I built this system in 2015, and then upgraded from Win 7 Pro to Win 10 Pro in 2016 (clean install). Have also upgraded RAM to 16GB and HDD to SSD. It has been a very stable and reliable performer from the beginning.

But other than the weird application install date bug I just noticed, and commented on in my previous post, everything has been smooth on 2004 EXCEPT:

Wi-Fi network adapter driver bug?

I have been using a Panda 802.11N USB adapter (with a Ralink chipset). I gradually noticed after the 2004 upgrade that I was having issues with large downloads (1 – 2GB). They would finish, but the file would be corrupted. Different file hash each time. Strange… But the Wi-Fi network never dropped out on  me, and would stay connected fine.

Then I popped in my old Netgear N300 USB adapter (with a Broadcom chipset) and the problem went away.

So I bought a newer Panda N600 dual band adapter (also Ralink), and it didn’t run well either.

According to the Panda website, there are no factory drivers to download, as they are all supplied by Microsoft. Meaning that Win 10 should have installed the appropriate drivers.

So then I got a new Netgear AC1600 router (mainly because I’m working from home now, and wanted a faster connection) and Panda still wouldn’t play right. The only reason I was using a Panda adapter instead of my Netgear, is that the chipset is Ralink and cross-platform plug and play with Linux. I don’t like to have to swap adapters if I boot into Linux.

My Netgear N300 adapter works very well with Windows, but uses a Broadcom chipset, which has never had open source drivers, thus was problematic with Linux.

Bottom line, I think something is possibly wrong with Ralink drivers on Windows 10 2004.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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@MHCLV941 and JohnW:

Thanks for your replies on this topic.

After doing some Internet research, I found a Microsoft Community forum where another Windows 10 user experienced the same issue back in 2018, from an earlier major Windows 10 update:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/installed-program-list-wrong-install-dates/3ea5c7dd-dae7-4e64-8bf7-3546a709898a

Within the Microsoft Community forum: according to Eric (Microsoft Agent), he states that this is intentionally done by Microsoft; the reasoning behind it: “Some programs have to be reinstalled by Windows, after a major version upgrade.”.

Why would Microsoft have to reinstall these applications as part of a Major Operating System upgrade? The Operating System and a user’s installed applications should be mutually exclusive (in other words, the Operating System and a user’s installed applications should be completely separate from each other). I also feel that it is a bit invasive for Microsoft to be reinstalling user’s applications without the user’s consent.

Additionally, why would only “Some” of the applications be reinstalled? What’s the difference between the installed applications that do get reinstalled, and the installed applications that are left as is after the upgrade? I’m suspecting that this may have something to do with the new Windows 10 version 2004 security feature called “Reputation-based Protection”, where Microsoft detects and blocks potentially unwanted applications from the users’ Windows 10 Operating Systems, but I’m not 100 percent sure as this new security feature is still fresh out of the box.

By default, Windows 10 turns the “Reputation-based Protection” security feature off, which is where I’ll want it to be at, for now.

I think it would be a good idea for Windows 10 users to start keeping track of which applications get reinstalled, and which ones are left as is (maybe we can end up with a solution after the users begin to analyze the application re-installation patterns after the major Windows 10 upgrade occurs).

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anonymous wrote:

I think it would be a good idea for Windows 10 users to start keeping track of which applications get reinstalled, and which ones are left as is (maybe we can end up with a solution after the users begin to analyze the application re-installation patterns after the major Windows 10 upgrade occurs).

Well here are a few of my more common ones:

7-Zip

Adobe (Photoshop Elements 10, Adobe Digital Editions)

Corel (Paintshop Pro 2020 & CorelDraw Graphics Suite 2019)

Notepad++

Piriform (CCleaner, Defraggler, Recuva)

Turbo Tax

VLC

Xara Photo and Graphic Designer

And others…

 

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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anonymous wrote:

I also feel that it is a bit invasive for Microsoft to be reinstalling user’s applications without the user’s consent.

I don’t think and ever came across Microsoft re-installing software as Microsoft doesn’t have the source software nor know the version installed.

I think changed dates are due to copying Program files/(32) and other folders aside and then back during Windows 10 OS upgrade while not keeping original creation date.

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Alex5723 wrote:

I think changed dates are due to copying Program files/(32) and other folders aside and then back during Windows 10 OS upgrade while not keeping original creation date.

I would probably agree, except that it’s not ALL programs, as well as being a mix of 64-bit and 32-bit programs. Nothing jumps directly out at me as being in common, unless it’s something under the hood like a .NET version compatibility thing, or something else like that.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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[Alex5723]

There is no way Microsoft can re-install programs.
As I wrote, Microsoft doesn’t have access to the installation source .exe/zip of programs, doesn’t know the version you were running, doesn’t know the settings for each program….

It just can’t be done.

Any way, 90+% of software I use is portable running from drive D.

• This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Alex5723.

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Alex5723 wrote:

There is no way Microsoft can re-install programs. As I wrote, Microsoft doesn’t have access to the installation source .exe/zip of programs, doesn’t know the version you were running, doesn’t know the settings for each program…. It just can’t be done.

That sounds reasonable. Maybe the most plausible idea is that it’s a Microsoft bug that is selectively (or randomly?) resetting the stored install dates for some applications.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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@Alex5723 – Yeah, I also agree Microsoft wouldn’t have access to the sources of the application installation executable(s) (they could have been moved, or deleted from their original locations by the user after the installation was completed – as some examples).

Here is the list of applications installed on my Win 10 system where the applications’ dates were updated along with the Win 10 Version 2004 Upgrade:

7-zip 19.00
Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center
Microsoft Visual Studio 2020 Tools for Office Runtime (x64)
Mozilla Firefox 79.0 (x64-en US)
Mozilla Maintenance Service
Notepad++ (64-bit x64)
Canon MG2500 series MP Drivers
Discord
Zoom
Python 3.8.0 (32-bit)
Adobe Flash Player 32 NPAPI
Canon MG2500 series On-screen Manual
Canon MG2500 series User Registration
Canon My Image Garden
Canon My Image Garden Design Files
Canon My Printer
Canon Quick Menu
Canon IJ Scan Utility
Citrix Receiver 4.9 LTSR
Canon Easy-WebPrint EX
Moffsoft FreeCalc
Mozilla Thunderbird 68.11.0 (x86 en-US)
Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2010
Microsoft Outlook 2010
TurboTax 2018
TurboTax 2019
AMD Catalyst Control Center
Winamp
Microsoft Visual C++ 2012 Redistributable (x64) 11.0.50727
Microsoft Visual C++ 2012 Redistributable (x32) 11.0.50727
Microsoft Visual C++ 2012 Redistributable (x86) 11.0.61030
Microsoft Visual C++ 2017 Redistributable (x64) 14.16.27029

@JohnW – looks like there are a few installed applications that are similar between our lists:

-TurboTax
-Notepad++
-7-Zip

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Of course they can, the same way you can unless you or the software deliberately removed the installers, deleted shadow copies, cleaned driver store repository, etc., etc., depending on where stuff was placed by the OS.  Even some portables.

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anonymous wrote:

@JohnW – looks like there are a few installed applications that are similar between our lists: -TurboTax -Notepad++ -7-Zip

Agreed, but fyi, earlier I mentioned that the date change coincided with the servicing stack update, NOT the 2004 feature update.

I do see a number of applications whose install date is set to the date one day after the 2004 update. Which is by coincidence (?), the day that ‘Security Update for Microsoft Windows (KB4560366)’ was applied. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4560366/servicing-stack-update-for-windows-10-version-2004

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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