I’m trying a test to see if I can get a better feel for bots and spammers on the site and where they come from. When you come to the site you’ll noti
[See the full post at: Giving you the choice]
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it. |
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Giving you the choice
- This topic has 100 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by
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AuthorViewing 45 reply threadsAuthor-
I’m trying a test to see if I can get a better feel for bots and spammers on the site and where they come from
with Multi-hop VPN’s, hidden/compromised servers in proxy countries, dirty IP’s assigned by ISP’s, Tag teams on VPN’s and shysters chancing their luck on clean IP’s, I wish you the best of luck! We as moderators have had this to deal with from the early forum days and they always evolve their methods. AI won’t replace experience by moderators, it’s not just a quick learning curve either, there’s a large amount of skill, instinct and research that AI simply cannot replace. Wordfence and our antispam is getting better over time and making things safer for everyone here on askwoody.
Windows - commercial by definition and now function... -
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Susan wrote in her blog post that
Also know that if you log in to the site the tracking is disabled as well.
However, I am logged in here and I’m still getting the opt-in/opt-out notice at the bottom, so I’m not sure what difference it actually makes whether the user is logged in or not.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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If you said yes to tracking it would ignore your selection. Yes I know that sounds a bit silly that they should not even offer you the box, but for now that’s how it works.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
3 users thanked author for this post.
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but for now that’s how it works
Are you saying this is a long-term thing? (Hope you’re not!)
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I’m trying a test to see if I can get a better feel for bots and spammers on the site and where they come from. When you come to the site you’ll noti
[See the full post at: Giving you the choice]What choice is there with Google? My choice is remove Google. Leave well enough alone. Again more confusion re what opt in and opt out really mean. Susan your explanation really didn’t help. Google is untrustworthy – period!
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I’m certainly not seeing the option on my iPad, using Brave browser. This makes me start to think the data that will be obtained from spammers/bots will be limited.
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Wow, this looks soooo SNEAKY with it being at the bottom! Who goes to the very bottom of threads here? I don’t and bet others don’t…the regulars don’t because we know a blank text box is at the bottom and who wants or needs to look at that? Thus, I would never have seen this if I hadn’t read this thread so move it to the top!
I remain always logged in here (on the tab to here that I never close in Basilisk even when I close Basilisk)…after reading this thread it is not at all clear if I need to opt out or not???
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EFF Privacy Badger says it’s blocking two trackers’ attempt to access cookies (default behaviour). Could set it to block them completely.
The two are from http://www.google.com and http://www.gstatic.com
… oh yes, this is while logged in.
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Susan,
I just logged in to the Ask Wood web site and I don’t see your “Opt in out” thing any where. Just where is it located?
Dave
At the bottom of the page
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We avoid sites that use Google Analytics.
In addition, we delete cookies when we close our browsers.
As a result, we are restricting access to this site until Google Analytics is removed.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m trying to better understand the site, where spammers are coming from so I can protect it better so I can make a better site for you. I have explicitly set it up so that you are not tracked once you log in and you have opt in or opt out options. I have given you complete control over your experience.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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Can we have an update as to the current (and hopefully final) status of this Google Analytics cookie thing? I have been keeping up with the twists and turns in this thread, and honestly I am no clearer on it than when I started.
Specifically, if one is signed in here, does it make any difference one way or another whether one 1) clicks to opt in, 2) clicks to opt out, or 3) doesn’t click on either of those choices? And if any of these actions does make a difference, what is the difference?
Clarity and completeness, please. And the less technical the explanation, the better.
Thank you.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Cybertooth,
For me, if I click to opt in, that makes a big difference, because both the ‘Click here to opt in’ and ‘Click here to opt out’ buttons in the blue bar immediately disappear, replaced, irreversibly, by a note of thanks in the blue bar (this bar that might be at the very top or the very bottom of the screen, depending on the browser) and, after trying several things, the only way I’ve found to “opt out” is to get my hands inside the guts of the browser to find and delete the ‘askwoody.com’ cookie or cookies.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
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Anon. visitors can opt-out as well, we all get that option:
Before:
After Opting out:
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satrow: “Anon. visitors can opt-out as well, we all get that option”
So let me see if I got this right: the anonymous are tracked as soon as they show up, but can opt out later, or else log out, and the rest of us only gets tracked between opting in and logging out. Next time we log in we are not tracked unless we opt in again. So the choice of opting in is for the current session only.
What this has to do with the “opt out” button disappearing as soon as I press “opt in” while logged in? Does this happens only to me?
And yes, I get the cookie installed in the browser. Deleting it opts me out.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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I can’t opt out on Windows 8.0 Pro computer. There is NO response on trying to click to opt out on Basilisk 2021.01.05 which is my default browser. Same thing on Fx 52.9 ESR. On my Windows 10 computer, I can’t opt out or in there either but I see all the cookies set on both so I don’t believe that one is automatically NOT tracked if logged in on either of my computers. I don’t have to worry since I have ALWAYS done the CORRECT thing and blocked Google Analytics in Hostsman on both computers but I am still bothered that a tech site would be so enamored of evil Google.
Plus, the blue bar looks different on Windows 8.0 Pro from Windows 10 Pro(2004).
Maybe this works on Google garbage browsers but I have everything Google (about 40 addresses) blocked in Hostsman. I have NEVER allowed Google garbage in 22 years on computers.
Why do you use recaptcha (Google garbage) when there is now the excellent hCaptcha that is open source and does NOT track one?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I’m trying to be really respectful of everyone privacy
Respectfully, using Google Analytics is not the greatest way for anything privacy related IMO. My only question is when will this Google “stuff” be turned off?
4 users thanked author for this post.
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So let me see if I got this right: the anonymous are tracked as soon as they show up, but can opt out later, or else log out,
how can anons log out when they are not logged in to start with?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I think what’s throwing me is the fact that two choices are given simultaneously, to Opt In or to Opt Out. As they used to say, this does not compute (so to speak). If I have the choice to EITHER opt in or opt out, then what status am I currently in? I’m reminded of Schrödinger’s Cat.
Generally speaking, a user would be given the option to opt in if they are currently “out,” or a choice to opt out if they are currently “in”. But not both at the same time: it suggests that they are currently opted both in and out. This in-between, either-or state is as confusing as quantum physics.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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Opting in or out changes the complete content of the bar, see the difference between the images I posted earlier.
A Google cookie is only allowed to be set after you’ve made the choice – when you Opt-in, you get the gapro-optin cookie. Same for anons, logging out or clearing cookies, will reset the status.
See also my earlier Post and images.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I had seen that, thanks. I still don’t understand how, at the outset, a user can be offered BOTH an opt-in and an opt-out option. Offering either one implies that the user is in the other state, so how can the user be offered both??
To illustrate what I mean, below is a screenshot of what I’m seeing:
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And what is the default if you choose not to make a choice, either via ignoring the banner or by clicking the X to close (and don’t log in)? Does that leave you opted in or opted out?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Thanks, but my question was specifically about when I’m not logged in, because on most visits I don’t — particularly the brief ones. Perhaps I shouldn’t have made that part a parenthetical.
Regardless, I’m certainly sympathetic to your goal of trying to rid the site of sp**mers.
BTW, I wonder why above the text box there is a pink box that says, “Error: Are you sure you wanted to do that?”
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If you want the opt out option to reappear delete the askwoody cookies and reload the site!
You may not want to delete all of them but there are a few that ‘look’ googlish go for them first.
Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.
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I’ve been exploring this more on both Basilisk and Fx. So, I got rid of all cookies here on both and then played with different settings regarding cookies.
One thing that really struck me is that because I don’t allow anything Google is that I will never be able to post here unless logged in. When I tried to make a post here without logging in first, I was blocked from posting and asked to complete the Google captcha first! How could I do that? I block all Google offerings on all my computers. I couldn’t see a captcha.
I really think that a tech site like this one should not be so enamored of Google.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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The google recaptcha is not new and has been there for years. It’s designed to ensure that anonymous posters can’t spam the site.
This is a wordpress site. It’s built from plug ins. For many of these plug ins they build them to follow standards. Google recaptcha is a web standard. We don’t code this site ourselves. We have to use what others have previously built. That’s the reality of the web and technology sites even today.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Additionally, we need to be mindful of plug-in conflicts, as not all WordPress plug-ins play nicely with each other!
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Unlike Microsoft I’m giving you a choice
If you make no selection at all it doesn’t block you from the site. The goal of this is to ensure I have better information about what’s going on with the site to better protect it. This is a change to make it better for you. My intention with being honest/up front/clear about your choices was to not be like Microsoft and instead give you options.Other sites track and don’t give you choice. I didn’t want to do that because I know that many of you want to opt out.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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Other sites track and don’t give you choice
Does askwoody honor browses ‘do not track’ request ? What about ‘No Personal Data is Collected’ banner ?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Cybertooth,
I did not see the blue bar then but I do see it now .
I think that the reason for the blue bar appearing now, is that I deleted the cookie once more last time, after I closed the browser.
[Moderator Edit] please stay on topic
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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I suspect this is because I have FF clear all cookies and history at close
DriftyDon – I have FF set to clear all cookies at close, but I also use CookieQuickMnager to lock the cookies such as those that identify me to AW. Thus, they are still there when I next restart FF. Cookies on my terms, not those of the trackers.
Dell E5570 Latitude, Intel Core i5 6440@2.60 GHz, 8.00 GB - Win 10 Pro
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Yes and yes.
Yes for the first question. I don’t see a banner for the second question
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I don’t see a banner for the second question
Do you really need a ‘No Personal Data is Collected’ banner?
What information do you keep?
The bare minimum necessary to keep the site running. We automatically keep things like your IP address, browser info, operating system, and the date and time you accessed the site. We also store your email address (see below). We only use this to see how many people visit our site and from where, and we will never use it to track or identify you. We will only keep other information if you want us to keep it, and we will keep it for as long as you want us to. Passwords are salted and encrypted (which means even if somebody stole them, they wouldn’t be able to read them). We don’t keep any financial information. More info.
How many sites display such a banner?
Perhaps you could provide an example URL or three?
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Google recaptcha is a web standard.
WEB Standard ? De facto GOOGLE standard maybe but not to my liking as I have to change browsers to deal with them! JUST DO NOT USE THEM !!
Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there. -
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IMO would it not have been a much better idea to have asked first if GA was acceptable to the majority of AW members before just putting it on the site? I use FF and this “at the bottom/at the top” and all the additional questions it has raised has been far from simple. Every time I use AW it is a lottery as to what I’ll get. I think GA is playing with my FF add ons in a way that I have not seen before i.e. some time on and sometimes off. I have to reload the site to have the add ons operate in the on position. For the sake of simplicity please remove GA from AW. Keep the site lean, mean and simple; it was just fine the way it was.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Google analytics is the defacto gold standard of providing information for web properties ergo why I put it in place but made sure I gave you choices. I got my answers and it’s now disabled. I was trying to see if there was patterns to the spam to better protect the site. I got a few insights to help in blocking.
Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher
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A supercookie is different. Clearing your browsing data doesn’t help.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I’m not sure who you are speaking to @ b but that was essentially what I was asking. Things change so fast! and GA would be a likely suspect to develop one that would persist. Glad Susan decided to remove it. I had my ‘google ‘ removed months ago and feel SOOOO much better!
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Viewing 45 reply threads - This topic has 100 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by
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