Format Hard Drive etc

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I’m in the mode of recovering from a system melt-down caused by attempting to upgrade Norton SystemWorks. The long and short of it is that I was able to access and install Windows on my second hard drive and recover the data on my C: drive. However, I don’t want to make booting from the D: drive permanent. Tech support at Dell suggested that I just flip the jumpers on the hard drive and swap the cables. That’s fine if you have any idea how to do this. But beyond that, wouldn’t I run into problems from the software side since this temporary installation of Windows knows it was installed on the D: drive?

I’m thinking that since everything on the C: drive got all jacked up I might as well start with a clean format of that drive and re-install the operating system and all my software – plus updates and updated drivers – without switching the hardware, and then just uninstalling Windows from the D: drive. Can I just do “Format C:” while logged on to the D: drive? Will the Windows (2000) installation get confused by the fact that I’m using the D: drive while it’s being installed on C:? Are there any likely pitfalls I will run into?

Obviously I’m a novice with such things so any details that might be obvious to someone who does this often would be most welcome. I’ve been through enough pain already and would very much like to succeed with this on the first try. I have a Dell Precision 330 workstation and Windows 2000.

Many thanks,
Virginia

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Can I just do “Format C:” while logged on to the D: drive?
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Sure, should work.

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Can I just do “Format C:” while logged on to the D: drive? Will the Windows (2000) installation get confused by the fact that I’m using the D: drive while it’s being installed on C:? Are there any likely pitfalls I will run into?

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[/indent]If you format the C: drive while booted into Windows 2000 from D:, you will have a non-booting system. C: contains the boot sector and other Windows 2000 startup files – NTLDR et al.

Leave well enough alone, you shouldn’t have any problems running from the D: drive.Just use C: as storage space.

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I’m confused…
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If you format the C: drive while booted into Windows 2000 from D:, you will have a non-booting system. C: contains the boot sector and other Windows 2000 startup files – NTLDR et al.

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Why would I have a non-booting system? I have Windows entirely loaded on the D: drive (for the moment). Windows on the C: drive is corrupt and doesn’t work at all. Don’t I now have a boot sector on the D: drive? Dell tech support had me load drivers and utilities specifically onto the D: drive. And when I was moving data files off the C: drive I moved C:WINNT to the trash with no noticeable consequences. All this made me think that whatever was left on the C: drive was just garbage, not being used by Windows at all. I really don’t know much about this so I’m willing to accept that what you say is true but I want to understand it.

Thanks for your help,
Virginia

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You have Windows 2000 installed and working in D:. This is not the same as a boot sector, though. D: is another disk partition that is not your primary boot drive.

On the system boot drive, which is almost always C:, you must have:

NTLDR	Root of the active partition
Boot.ini	Root of the active partition
Bootsect.dos (only if dual booting)	Root of the active partition
Ntdetect.com	Root of the active partition
Ntbootdd.sys (only if booting from a SCSI partition, and SCSI BIOS is not present on the controller)	Root of the active partition

All of these must exist on the first active partition in the system – C:. The rest of the core startup files are located with Windows itself.

So you see, although you can’t use Windows on C:, the drive itself still serves a purpose. Without the files listed above, Windows 2000 cannot start itself.

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Mark,
If you repartitioned the C: drive and made it the active ( boot ) drive, then formatted the C:, would you not now have a bootable C: drive? Wipe out the D: and
then install 2000 anew in the C: ( assuming you have 2000 available on a CD )

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Bob, she already has Windows installed and running on the D: drive, so why re-install. The thing folks have to understand is that all (most?) BIOSs “assume” that the first (boot) drive is the C: drive and that’s where the boot information is stored. If you reformat that drive, what Mark is trying to tell her, is that the “knowledge” that Windows is running on the D: drive will be lost with the absence of the key files he mentioned. The easiest thing for her to do is to erase all the directories on the C: drive EXCEPT for the files in the root directory. She could then use it as a data storage drive or whatever.

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There are far too many techs that ass-u-me Windows is installed on drive C. It shouldn’t be a problem as long as you (the OP) just substitutes the correct drive/path for whatever the tech tells her to type. Just don’t try to correct the tech-everybody knows that techs working over the phone on a strange computer know more about it than the computer’s owner who’s sitting at the keyboard. If you don’t believe that, just ask them! (The techs, that is.)

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There are far too many techs that ass-u-me Windows is installed on drive C. It shouldn’t be a problem as long as you (the OP) just substitutes the correct drive/path for whatever the tech tells her to type. Just don’t try to correct the tech-everybody knows that techs working over the phone on a strange computer know more about it than the computer’s owner who’s sitting at the keyboard. If you don’t believe that, just ask them! (The techs, that is.)

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Al,
I don’t want to start thinking for Virginia or whatever, but she said:

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I might as well start with a clean format of that drive and re-install the operating system and all my software – plus updates and updated drivers – without switching the hardware, and then just uninstalling Windows from the D: drive.
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That’s why I said re-install.
I don’t think I would like to have Windows on the D: drive either, just for the idea of it.

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Al,
I don’t want to start thinking for Virginia or whatever, but she said:

————————————————————
I might as well start with a clean format of that drive and re-install the operating system and all my software – plus updates and updated drivers – without switching the hardware, and then just uninstalling Windows from the D: drive.
————————————————————

That’s why I said re-install.
I don’t think I would like to have Windows on the D: drive either, just for the idea of it.

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Bob, she already has Windows installed and running on the D: drive, so why re-install. The thing folks have to understand is that all (most?) BIOSs “assume” that the first (boot) drive is the C: drive and that’s where the boot information is stored. If you reformat that drive, what Mark is trying to tell her, is that the “knowledge” that Windows is running on the D: drive will be lost with the absence of the key files he mentioned. The easiest thing for her to do is to erase all the directories on the C: drive EXCEPT for the files in the root directory. She could then use it as a data storage drive or whatever.

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Mark,
If you repartitioned the C: drive and made it the active ( boot ) drive, then formatted the C:, would you not now have a bootable C: drive? Wipe out the D: and
then install 2000 anew in the C: ( assuming you have 2000 available on a CD )

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Mark,

Couldn’t she just reformat the C: drive using the /s flag to put the system files on the C: drive and make it the active partition ?? She would then have a bootable C: that she could install Windows on.

Another thought would be to install Windows over-top of itself as a “repair” installation. But since she has already trashed the C:WINNT folder, unless it can be restored form the Recycle Bin, I would think that simply reinstalling Windows to the C: drive would give her back the system (minus all her installed apps, of course).

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Doc,

See my post 407111
Your post is basically what I said. It’s the way that I would do it, too.

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Doc,

See my post 407111
Your post is basically what I said. It’s the way that I would do it, too.

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Thanks everyone for the ideas and education on how all of this works. It makes sense once explained.

I used recovery disks to format and set up the C: drive, and now have Windows 2000, the basic utilities and the updated display driver installed. I still have to uninstall Windows from the D: drive.

* Is there any trick to uninstalling Windows from the D: drive so I can get rid of the boot screen where you see the choice for which copy of Windows you want to use?

* Also, since the cause of this mess was most likely a conflict between SystemWorks 2004 and another software driver, I’m paranoid about having another blowup. Should I load SystemWorks before or after I start loading my applications? Is there any way to proactively look for places where conflicts might occur?

[The background in a nutshell: I had SW2002 and it worked fine for several years. When I updated to SW2004, first there was a serious conflict with the video driver which I overcame with an updated driver. Then the AntiVirus Auto-Protect would not work no matter what. After trying everything else, the Symantec tech support person had me uninstall Roxio CD Creator which is when the operating system short circuited beyond recovery. It seems almost all anti-virus products have similar problems with upgrades because of conflicts with older software.]

Any words of advice on the two questions (*) would be very helpful and most appreciated.

Thanks again everyone,
Virginia

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Virginia,
Have you looked at the boot.ini file yet? It should mention the two boot locations. You can just edit out the reference to the D drive and save the changed file. It’s just a text file. Once it stops looking for the D drive info, you can delete whatever from the Windows (D) folder.

I would install SW2004 before the apps, although you should be able to do it anytime.

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Bob, I finally got around to looking in the boot.ini file to delete the reference to the D: drive… only there isn’t such a reference. What I see is:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)WINNT=”Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional” /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)WINNT=”Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional” /fastdetect

Can you tell from looking at this which one is the C: drive and which is the D: drive? Or do I have to just remove one and see what happens, then put it back if I guessed wrong?

Thanks,
Virginia

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disk 0 should be your first drive, i.e. C: and disk 1 should be your second. But I’d start by editing the descriptions so you can tell them apart, then you can see which one does what when you select it at bootup.

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disk 0 should be your first drive, i.e. C: and disk 1 should be your second. But I’d start by editing the descriptions so you can tell them apart, then you can see which one does what when you select it at bootup.

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Virginia,
I’d say the first is your C drive but the safest way is to creat a new folder , call it Boot.bak or something. Copy and paste the contents of the boot.ini to the bak folder. Then delete the second line in the ini file, save it and reboot to check what happens. If by chance, that isn’t it, you can then use the bak file as a model to replace the first line and delete the second one. Once you are on the right track, you can just delete the bak folder.

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Virginia,
I’d say the first is your C drive but the safest way is to creat a new folder , call it Boot.bak or something. Copy and paste the contents of the boot.ini to the bak folder. Then delete the second line in the ini file, save it and reboot to check what happens. If by chance, that isn’t it, you can then use the bak file as a model to replace the first line and delete the second one. Once you are on the right track, you can just delete the bak folder.

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Bob, I finally got around to looking in the boot.ini file to delete the reference to the D: drive… only there isn’t such a reference. What I see is:
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)WINNT=”Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional” /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)WINNT=”Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional” /fastdetect

Can you tell from looking at this which one is the C: drive and which is the D: drive? Or do I have to just remove one and see what happens, then put it back if I guessed wrong?

Thanks,
Virginia

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Virginia,
Have you looked at the boot.ini file yet? It should mention the two boot locations. You can just edit out the reference to the D drive and save the changed file. It’s just a text file. Once it stops looking for the D drive info, you can delete whatever from the Windows (D) folder.

I would install SW2004 before the apps, although you should be able to do it anytime.

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I’ve only installed NSW2K4 on one machine & that was only a 90-day trial, then I uninstalled it & installed NSW2K3 Pro for which I already had a license. So I can’t comment very specifically about conflicts with NSW2K4, but overall I’ve found it rare for an anti-virus product to have a conflict with any other software except for another anti-virus product. (And even then they work fine as long as only one of them is running at a time.)

On the few occasions when an anti-virus product has had a conflict with another product I’ve found that the conflict has always been documented on the anti-virus manufacturer’s Web site. I did find a report of a conflict with Roxio CD Creator but the suggested solution, per Symantec, is to download & install an update for CD Creator, not to uninstall it. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like your support tech was grasping at straws.

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I’ve only installed NSW2K4 on one machine & that was only a 90-day trial, then I uninstalled it & installed NSW2K3 Pro for which I already had a license. So I can’t comment very specifically about conflicts with NSW2K4, but overall I’ve found it rare for an anti-virus product to have a conflict with any other software except for another anti-virus product. (And even then they work fine as long as only one of them is running at a time.)

On the few occasions when an anti-virus product has had a conflict with another product I’ve found that the conflict has always been documented on the anti-virus manufacturer’s Web site. I did find a report of a conflict with Roxio CD Creator but the suggested solution, per Symantec, is to download & install an update for CD Creator, not to uninstall it. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like your support tech was grasping at straws.

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Thanks everyone for the ideas and education on how all of this works. It makes sense once explained.

I used recovery disks to format and set up the C: drive, and now have Windows 2000, the basic utilities and the updated display driver installed. I still have to uninstall Windows from the D: drive.

* Is there any trick to uninstalling Windows from the D: drive so I can get rid of the boot screen where you see the choice for which copy of Windows you want to use?

* Also, since the cause of this mess was most likely a conflict between SystemWorks 2004 and another software driver, I’m paranoid about having another blowup. Should I load SystemWorks before or after I start loading my applications? Is there any way to proactively look for places where conflicts might occur?

[The background in a nutshell: I had SW2002 and it worked fine for several years. When I updated to SW2004, first there was a serious conflict with the video driver which I overcame with an updated driver. Then the AntiVirus Auto-Protect would not work no matter what. After trying everything else, the Symantec tech support person had me uninstall Roxio CD Creator which is when the operating system short circuited beyond recovery. It seems almost all anti-virus products have similar problems with upgrades because of conflicts with older software.]

Any words of advice on the two questions (*) would be very helpful and most appreciated.

Thanks again everyone,
Virginia

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I suppose it depends on how badly one wants Windows to live on the C: drive…? To me, it would not be worth the hassle of reinstalling everything just to change a drive letter.

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I agree Mark….but….I think most novice to intermediate type users are used to seeing everything referenced as being on C: and may have a problem adjusting.

Joe

--Joe

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Mark,

I wasn’t addressing the value of doing the reinstallation. Only if it could be done and which way might be the best one to resolve the issue with the least amoutn of effort. Since the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” rule applies here, I’d also leave things alone.

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Mark,

I wasn’t addressing the value of doing the reinstallation. Only if it could be done and which way might be the best one to resolve the issue with the least amoutn of effort. Since the “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” rule applies here, I’d also leave things alone.

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Funny, I get really irritated by windows being installed on strange drive letters.

The historical reasons why the PC on which I am currently typing has Windows XP Professional installed on drive F: are lost in the mists of time – and it really irritates me, but not quite enough to wipe it and reinstall.

StuartR

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The most common reason in my life for WinXP to be installed on ‘strange’ drive letters is because the PC started out as a dual-boot machine, typically while the decision was being made whether or not to switch to XP. Once the switch was made the old Windows installation on C: was deleted, leaving XP on the strange drive letter for no apparent reason. (This was usually D: but I know of one case where the person was trying to decide between XP, 2000, and Linux so he had them all set up on different partitions. Don’t know what he finally settled on-this was a former colleague, not a customer.)

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The most common reason in my life for WinXP to be installed on ‘strange’ drive letters is because the PC started out as a dual-boot machine, typically while the decision was being made whether or not to switch to XP. Once the switch was made the old Windows installation on C: was deleted, leaving XP on the strange drive letter for no apparent reason. (This was usually D: but I know of one case where the person was trying to decide between XP, 2000, and Linux so he had them all set up on different partitions. Don’t know what he finally settled on-this was a former colleague, not a customer.)

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Funny, I get really irritated by windows being installed on strange drive letters.

The historical reasons why the PC on which I am currently typing has Windows XP Professional installed on drive F: are lost in the mists of time – and it really irritates me, but not quite enough to wipe it and reinstall.

StuartR

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I suppose it depends on how badly one wants Windows to live on the C: drive…? To me, it would not be worth the hassle of reinstalling everything just to change a drive letter.

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Mark,

Couldn’t she just reformat the C: drive using the /s flag to put the system files on the C: drive and make it the active partition ?? She would then have a bootable C: that she could install Windows on.

Another thought would be to install Windows over-top of itself as a “repair” installation. But since she has already trashed the C:WINNT folder, unless it can be restored form the Recycle Bin, I would think that simply reinstalling Windows to the C: drive would give her back the system (minus all her installed apps, of course).

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You have Windows 2000 installed and working in D:. This is not the same as a boot sector, though. D: is another disk partition that is not your primary boot drive.

On the system boot drive, which is almost always C:, you must have:

NTLDR	Root of the active partition
Boot.ini	Root of the active partition
Bootsect.dos (only if dual booting)	Root of the active partition
Ntdetect.com	Root of the active partition
Ntbootdd.sys (only if booting from a SCSI partition, and SCSI BIOS is not present on the controller)	Root of the active partition

All of these must exist on the first active partition in the system – C:. The rest of the core startup files are located with Windows itself.

So you see, although you can’t use Windows on C:, the drive itself still serves a purpose. Without the files listed above, Windows 2000 cannot start itself.

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Seems you could test this theory by removing the cable from C drive, making D the master, and seeing if the computer can boot. Or maybe the BIOS would need changing? (I better stick to software.)

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One could try it, but I don’t think it would work. Too many references to “D:WINDOWS” or whatever, already exist in the registry …..

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One could try it, but I don’t think it would work. Too many references to “D:WINDOWS” or whatever, already exist in the registry …..

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Seems you could test this theory by removing the cable from C drive, making D the master, and seeing if the computer can boot. Or maybe the BIOS would need changing? (I better stick to software.)

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I’m confused…
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If you format the C: drive while booted into Windows 2000 from D:, you will have a non-booting system. C: contains the boot sector and other Windows 2000 startup files – NTLDR et al.

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Why would I have a non-booting system? I have Windows entirely loaded on the D: drive (for the moment). Windows on the C: drive is corrupt and doesn’t work at all. Don’t I now have a boot sector on the D: drive? Dell tech support had me load drivers and utilities specifically onto the D: drive. And when I was moving data files off the C: drive I moved C:WINNT to the trash with no noticeable consequences. All this made me think that whatever was left on the C: drive was just garbage, not being used by Windows at all. I really don’t know much about this so I’m willing to accept that what you say is true but I want to understand it.

Thanks for your help,
Virginia

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Can I just do “Format C:” while logged on to the D: drive? Will the Windows (2000) installation get confused by the fact that I’m using the D: drive while it’s being installed on C:? Are there any likely pitfalls I will run into?

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[/indent]If you format the C: drive while booted into Windows 2000 from D:, you will have a non-booting system. C: contains the boot sector and other Windows 2000 startup files – NTLDR et al.

Leave well enough alone, you shouldn’t have any problems running from the D: drive.Just use C: as storage space.

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