Do surge protectors slow down Internet speeds?

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Hi Friends!!!

I apologize for being away so long (since the very beginning of the year). Health issues and such. Can you believe I still have my new build to build, all those shiny new parts and such? And I am back at square one going back to consult everything I was learning.

But I have a new issue today. I just ordered a new power surge protector, an APC P11VNT3 Performance SurgeArrest 11 Outlet with Phone (Splitter), Coax and Ethernet Protection, 120V. From what I have thus far gathered, there are those who claim that utilizing such Ethernet connections significantly slows down internet speeds, while others claim no significant loss.

I wish to know what you all have to say about that. Should I use it or not? I very much appreciate all of your input, Thank you!:)

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As you already have it to hand why don’t you test it and let us know the results. You have nothing to lose.

cheers, Paul

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As you already have it to hand why don’t you test it and let us know the results. You have nothing to lose.

cheers, Paul

Paul, I do not already have it to hand, I merely put in an order for it. Moreover, the confuser I am using now has its own connection issues… I don’t know if it’s my modem or network card or what. Meantime, I’m curious about everyone’s input.

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From what I have thus far gathered, there are those who claim that utilizing such Ethernet connections significantly slows down internet speeds, while others claim no significant loss.

Yes and no depending on the many facts not provided.

All protectors degrade signals. How much does APC claim that degradation to be? Specification silence implies deception.

A larger question. Do you want to protect from surges that typically do no damage? Or from another and typically destructive surge? Read APC’s specs. It addressed the first question; not the second.

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Yes they can, but it’s fairly minimal to notice.
You would have to have had terrible speeds to begin with in order to notice.

Personally I have never used a surge protector for my internet connection, probably should, but I frequent
areas where thunderstorms and lightning are rare.

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I have never used a surge protector for my internet connection, probably should, …

Those lines already have superior protection installed for free. Using protectors that virtually do not degrade signals. As required by codes and other standards for longer than PCs have existed. But mostly unknown to consumers.

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Most interesting and informative input guys. I thank you. I did not see/find any degradation details in the specs. But at least it features a “fail safe” mode. I live in an area where the threat of lightening is rather uncommon. However, I do have concerns about other appliances in the house like fridges, AC, fluorescent lights, vacuums, and such. I think that’s why I had a couple short lived TV’s until this one, when I got a better protector to go with it.

The best internet speeds I can get for my money is really important to me, primarily because of YouTube and Skype HD. So one last thing I just did get for my new build is a new network card, Intel EXPI9301CTBLK Network Adapter 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express 1 x RJ45, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833106033 . I’m hoping that replacing the onboard Realtek will yield me comparable improvements in throughput as others have reported.

Anyway, it seems to me, that one’s choice of surge protection should perhaps be as important as one’s consideration of a power supply.

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Anyway, it seems to me, that one’s choice of surge protection should perhaps be as important as one’s consideration of a power supply.

Numerous anomalies can exist. Nothing averts all. Many, if not most, are already made irrelevant by what exists inside each electronic appliance. Many will recite fears from hearsay rather than learn what makes anomalies (ie low voltage) irrelevant. Same myths will also recommend protectors that do not even claim to protect from a typically destructive anomalies.

For example, low voltage is popular with many who ignore numbers, are informed by subjective fears. and have no idea what is routinely accomplished inside all electronic appliances. Normal voltage for all electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often is your voltage dropping that much? Then be concerned for appliances actually at risk: ie refrigerator.

1) If voltage drops that low, then AC utilities disconnect to protect the ‘at risk’ appliances – motors.
2) International design standards, long before a PC existed, demand that low voltage is NOT destructive. One standard is so blunt as to put this expression in the entire low voltage section. And in all capital letters: “No Damage Region”.
3) If low voltage causes damage, then power off also causes that damage. Even electronic appliance ‘power off’ is a long period of low voltage.

If low voltage exists (incandescent bulbs dimming less than 50% intensity), then a UPS is needed for each refrigerator. Or an electrician is needed ASAP for house wiring that threatens human life. How often do your bulbs remains dimmed that much?

Popular recommendations are traceable only to hearsay. Useful recommendations always include numbers. ie Normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How to separate fears from science: ‘reasons why’ with perspective (numbers).

Only numbers answer the OP’s original question. Numbers during testing will also determine if internet access speeds are harmed. No numbers (subjective observation) means diminished internet speed only appears to be 100%. Best protection on an incoming internet wire (with minimal speed reduction) was already install for free as explained earlier.

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Numerous anomalies can exist. Nothing averts all. Many, if not most, are already made irrelevant by what exists inside each electronic appliance. Many will recite fears from hearsay rather than learn what makes anomalies (ie low voltage) irrelevant. Same myths will also recommend protectors that do not even claim to protect from a typically destructive anomalies.

For example, low voltage is popular with many who ignore numbers, are informed by subjective fears. and have no idea what is routinely accomplished inside all electronic appliances. Normal voltage for all electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How often is your voltage dropping that much? Then be concerned for appliances actually at risk: ie refrigerator.

1) If voltage drops that low, then AC utilities disconnect to protect the ‘at risk’ appliances – motors.
2) International design standards, long before a PC existed, demand that low voltage is NOT destructive. One standard is so blunt as to put this expression in the entire low voltage section. And in all capital letters: “No Damage Region”.
3) If low voltage causes damage, then power off also causes that damage. Even electronic appliance ‘power off’ is a long period of low voltage.

If low voltage exists (incandescent bulbs dimming less than 50% intensity), then a UPS is needed for each refrigerator. Or an electrician is needed ASAP for house wiring that threatens human life. How often do your bulbs remains dimmed that much?

Popular recommendations are traceable only to hearsay. Useful recommendations always include numbers. ie Normal voltage for electronics is even when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity. How to separate fears from science: ‘reasons why’ with perspective (numbers).

Only numbers answer the OP’s original question. Numbers during testing will also determine if internet access speeds are harmed. No numbers (subjective observation) means diminished internet speed only appears to be 100% est protection on an incoming internet wire (with minimal speed reduction) was already install for free as explained earlier.

Thanks, Westom!– You sure know your stuff, sounds like. My fridges are good, long lasting no problems. I always thought it was their cycling (that and the A/C) that was causing my TV grief. Great info here.

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I run a multiple system office and can’t hype enough about having more than one computer box to test out/fix problems this way.

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Yes, you definitely want to have a surge protector for ALL the sensitive electronic equipment you have in the house, like TV/stereo/computer.
The surge protector you decide on need not be the most expensive or highly rated. Mid-range will do just fine.

The network card is a bit overkill imo, probably not worth the extra money above and beyond what the board comes with.
Especially if it’s a decent “enthusiasts” board.

In my situation, (I just recently moved into a TT) so I’ll need to concern myself with not only surge protection, but also under-voltage protection
and other monitoring, like ground fault & polarity fault monitoring. Some of the worst things to happen to many appliances is not getting enough voltage
to them, then they heat up due to the extra current draw. This can dramatically shorten their lifespan, especially air conditioners.

You’ll not likely have to concern yourself with most of the above beyond surge protection, but it is nice to know some of these things.

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Yes, you definitely want to have a surge protector for ALL the sensitive electronic equipment you have in the house, like TV/stereo/computer.
The surge protector you decide on need not be the most expensive or highly rated. Mid-range will do just fine.

The network card is a bit overkill imo, probably not worth the extra money above and beyond what the board comes with.
Especially if it’s a decent “enthusiasts” board.

In my situation, (I just recently moved into a TT) so I’ll need to concern myself with not only surge protection, but also under-voltage protection
and other monitoring, like ground fault & polarity fault monitoring. Some of the worst things to happen to many appliances is not getting enough voltage
to them, then they heat up due to the extra current draw. This can dramatically shorten their lifespan, especially air conditioners.

You’ll not likely have to concern yourself with most of the above beyond surge protection, but it is nice to know some of these things.

Now see…, this is why I come to you guys!– Oh silly me have always assumed that surge protectors included under-voltage protection as well. Interesting that I have never seen such dedicated products on the market.

Well, if I did go overkill on the network card, at least I did not lose out a fortune. Got a really good buy, actually. Bright side– I have instant default backup in case of need. In some ways I feel like my new build is overkill anyway, though not really, if that makes sense.

Roger that, CLiNT… It is indeed nice to know. BTW, great to see you again!

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Those lines already have superior protection installed for free. Using protectors that virtually do not degrade signals. As required by codes and other standards for longer than PCs have existed. But mostly unknown to consumers.

“Those lines” are just as susceptible to a lightning strike or catastrophic CME as any others.
They are only safe if they are protected at the entry point to a dwelling or directly connected to a surge suppressor at the site of usage.

Cumulative damage to certain appliances over time due to lowered voltage is NOT hearsay, true enough, there are some fail safes built into many appliances, and for many appliances a low voltage situation is irrelevant, but there are also many others that are not, & AC units made specifically for RV’s are one of them.

You’re less likely to run into a situation where a home connected to the electrical grid has any issue whatsoever with low voltage.
Like I said earlier, you’re more likely to run into these issues at RV parks living in a TT or RV with many 120V appliances for RV’ers. [FACT]

Popular recommendations are traceable only to hearsay. Useful recommendations always include numbers.

So, give us some numbers.

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”Those lines” are just as susceptible to a lightning strike or catastrophic CME as any others.
They are only safe if they are protected at the entry point to a dwelling or directly connected to a surge suppressor at the site of usage.

Do you seriously think that a bolt of lighting that has traversed several miles of an air gap is going to be stopped by a surge protector with a spark suppression gap that may be measured in millimeters? Lighting will go where it wants and if your house or equipment is in the way you cannot stop the lightning.

I have been involved with desktop computers since the early inception of the Apple II. I have never used any form of surge protection other than a UPS to guard against power outages. Some non-critical systems (I run six systems at my house) are not protected at all. I have lived in Texas and Tennessee where thunderstorms are frequent and brutal at times. I have never lost a piece of equipment because of power surge issues.

The marketing of surge suppressors is just marketing so the product can be sold. The makers have to create a need to create a demand. And they have done just that judging by some of the comments here. If a surge protector makes you feel better I guess the price can be justified. A UPS is more valuable and power dropouts are much more frequent than surges.

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Do you seriously think that a bolt of lighting that has traversed several miles of an air gap is going to be stopped by a surge protector with a spark suppression gap that may be measured in millimeters? Lighting will go where it wants and if your house or equipment is in the way you cannot stop the lightning.

Quite possibly. The wiring between the strike and the equipment adds significant series resistance and inductance. A suitable spark gap (normally measured in small fractions of a millimetre) can and does shunt the majority of the spike to ground. Of course, if the strike hits the feeder just outside the house, then your gear’s toast…
However, my parents used to unplug their TV aerial in thunderstorms, to protect the set. Didn’t help much as an induction pulse from a nearby strike (about 100 metres away!) destroyed not only their TV but the down lead and the nearby mains outlet wiring. All things are relative…

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The only protection IME is an online UPS. This will prevent your computer equipment from major over and under voltage, but not from very close lightening strikes. You need a good offline backup for that.

cheers, Paul

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The only protection IME is an online UPS. This will prevent your computer equipment from major over and under voltage, but not from very close lightening strikes.

All electronic appliances contain protection for ‘over voltages’ and for every ‘under voltage’. No under voltage causes damage. Concern is a voltage well above its ‘over voltage’ spec number. A number that all electronics have.

Spec numbers. For 120 volt electronics even before PCs existed, voltages as high as 600 would not cause damage. ATX specs for original Pentium PCs defined even better internal protection up to 1000 volts. Concern is a voltage that exceeds that existing internal protection.

A UPS does not claim to protect from that type of anomaly. It only claims to provide temporary and ‘dirty’ power during a blackout. Many 120 volt UPSes in battery backup mode would output 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to superior protection inside all electronics, then a UPS 270 volt spike is well within existing internal protection.

UPS does claim surge protection. View its numbers. Hundreds of joules mean that protection is near zero. Just enough above zero so that many will ‘subjectively’ claim 100% protection. Protection inside a UPS is typically less than what is provided by a $10 power strip protector sold in WalMart. However urban myths (hearsay without numbers) routinely claim otherwise.

Spec numbers exist for every UPS and power strip. Read them. How many joules? Ignore a claim that does not include hard numbers.

Cumulative damage to electronics due to low voltage is also classic hearsay. No datasheet says low voltage causes damage. The hard numbers he forgets to provide. Datasheets define all low voltages as not harmful.

Even 1960 digital electronics were not damaged by any low voltage. The 4000 series CMOS digital electronics from RCA: acceptable voltage was anywhere from -0.5 to +20 volts:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets/208/108514_DS.pdf
or http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets/208/108514_DS.pdf

Every low voltage causes no electronic damage. Voltage could even go slightly negative with no adverse effects. Any layman could read them.

Later technology SN74HCxx series digital electronics. Acceptable voltage is anywhere from -0.5 to 7 volts:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/d/0jlueuzgy7xfh1cxw8ucuasqi1yy.pdf

No damage from all low voltages. Where is this cumulative damage? It exists only in urban myths promoted by hearsay and wild speculation.

The fewer who really know this stuff are obvious. They first learn and can cite spec numbers. Numbers show a UPS claims near zero protection. Numbers also define protection, defined by international standards, already exists inside electronic appliances.

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In my opinion, the only protection you need is electric. If there is a surge/spike on the data line, your modem/router will take the hit, not your computer. In my +/- 30 years of experience, my modem/router has NEVER taken a hit, except for one time when I was overseas in 1992: my dialup modem got zapped.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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If there is a surge/spike on the data line, your modem/router will take the hit, not your computer.

Remember how electricity works. If a surge is incoming to a modem on a phone line, then the same electric current is simultaneously outgoing into the motherboard. It is electricity. Current from cloud to distant earthborne charges is everywhere, simultaneously, in that path. If a modem is in that path, then a current incoming on the phone line is the same current outgoing via its motherboard connection. Both paths must always exist.

Usually only one item in that path is damaged. For 33K and 56K modems, that was often a PNP transistor for its off hook relay. Unfortunately, modems were only rated to withstand up to 500 volts. Meaning a surge incoming on AC mains would often find earth ground destructively via a motherboard and modem. To obtain earth ground via telco installed and superior protection. Where their wires meet yours.

Many see damage (error message was often ‘No Dialtone Detected’). Then assume damage was the ‘incoming’ path. Damage was often the ‘outgoing’ path to earth. A weakest point in that connection from cloud, to AC mains, to motherboard, through modem, to earth via the phone line: a PNP transistor in a modem.

I still have some of those lightning struck and repaired 56K modems. Only replaced the lightning damaged transistor. No future failures. We not only learned this stuff. We also learned of mistakes by fixing them.

Remember, your telco’s $multi-million computer, connected to wires all over town, suffers about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days? Never? Of course. Because protection from direct lighting strikes is that routine. Because they properly earth protectors similar to what also exists on your landline. Routine is direct strikes without damage. But only when the homeowner learns some basic concepts. Especially the most important concept.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. ‘Earthing’ is the “art”. And often ignored by so many who then suffer damage. Who then assume nothing does protection. How often is your town without phone service for four days after each thunderstorm?

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In my opinion, the only protection you need is electric. If there is a surge/spike on the data line, your modem/router will take the hit, not your computer. In my +/- 30 years of experience, my modem/router has NEVER taken a hit, except for one time when I was overseas in 1992: my dialup modem got zapped.

If you live in Florida such as I you need all the help you can get. Back in Aug 2008 lightning hit our apartment building, zapped the cable lines in the attic, traveled downstairs to our unit, took out a TV, toasted my router and cable modem and fizzled out right before entering my PC. I use a mid grade surge protector now for the cable coming in and also have an APC XS1300 protecting my whole setup. There’s nothing really that can protect against a direct strike though, but the good thing about us is that the power line doesn’t come directly into our home such as from a pole so that adds some protection.

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Your datasheets are completely meaningless to this argument.

The Seven Types of Power Problems

How to Save Your Motors During a Brownout

Low, High Voltage and Electronics

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Your datasheets are completely meaningless to this argument.

The Seven Types of Power Problems

How to Save Your Motors During a Brownout

Low, High Voltage and Electronics

CLiNT, those articles are gems! Thanks! I’m still trying to sort it out, but what I take from them thus far seems to be that I in my circumstances do not necessarily need a UPS, though my area is subject to brownouts, especially this time of year. When I burned through my short-lived TV’s, I came to the conclusion of wondering about how I had a small fridge connected to the same outlet as those TV/monitors and computer. I no longer have that fridge connected.

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Those citations confirm what was posted. For example:

Modern electronic devices such as PC’s or TV’s have switching regulators in them that compensate for variable supply voltage. Interestingly, if the supply voltage drops, those devices draw *more* current in order to automatically keep the device’s power level constant, unlike non-regulated appliances like incandescent lamps. In extreme conditions, though, these regulated devices also often have over and undervoltage lockouts to turn themselves off.

None of those citations define under voltage as harmful to electronics.

Furthermore, low voltage does not harm incandescent bulbs. In fact a lower voltage increases a light bulb’s life expectancy, exponentially.

Citations also confirm another point. Under voltage can be harmful to motorized appliances – ie refrigerator.

Datasheets said same – but also with numbers. Low voltage does not harm electronics.

Over voltage that can overwhelm protection already inside all electronics is a concern to all homeowners. This anomaly typically occurs maybe once every seven years. And is why informed homeowners install the best solution that typically costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Be concerned about an over voltage so large as to overwhelm protection already inside appliances. Under voltage is a threat to motorized appliances (ie refrigerator, air conditioner); not to electronic applinaces (ie TV, computer).

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Do hard drives also suffer from low voltage (brownouts) like motorised appliances? They are commonly damaged by failing PSU’s.

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Do hard drives also suffer from low voltage (brownouts) like motorised appliances?

Disk drives, long before the IBM PC existed, were never harmed by low voltage. Not even drives that used motor oil to move the heads.

When does a disk drive first learn of a power off (any power off)? When DC voltage drop into the brownout region. No drive is told in advance that power went off. In every case, the drive’s computer first learns about power off when voltages drop too low.

All computer power offs are a long period of low and dropping voltage. During that time, all disk drives do whatever is necessary to prepare for power off.

All PSUs must also contain circuits that cause no damage to disk drives or any other component. Those circuits were industry standard long before the IBM PC even existed. However, many computer assemblers never learn about electricity. Meaning that some manufacturers can dump inferior PSUs (missing required functions) into the market for even higher profits. If a PSU damages any electronics, the reason is directly traceable to a human who selected that defective supply.

Remember, PSU manufacturers need not meet codes or standards. That responsibility is 100% on the computer assembler. Just another reason why assemblers must always demand spec sheets. Otherwise missing functions in a PSU may even cause disk drive damage.

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Wow, I’m learning a lot from you guys. Thanks a million for your input! I almost forgot that years ago I once had a UPS, a Belkin, that didn’t even last a year before it died– and for seemingly no apparent reason. What a monumental waste of money, I felt.

Jim— I find your comment most interesting. In fact, my modem is even in another room plugged into a different outlet. So are you saying that if a modem takes a hit, it can’t continue to pass that voltage along the data line?

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Jim— I find your comment most interesting. In fact, my modem is even in another room plugged into a different outlet. So are you saying that if a modem takes a hit, it can’t continue to pass that voltage along the data line?

I suppose anything’s possible. I guess the only way you could prevent the computers being hit by a spike/surge on the data line is to connect them wirelessly — if there’s no wire, there’s no path for the hit to travel.

That said, the only time my computer has ever taken a hit on the data side has been back in 1992, when I was overseas and connected via an analog phone line.

The hit I’m referring to is a hit via the data line. You should always use surge protection or a UPS for the power line of each device — modem, router, computer, printer, etc.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I suppose anything’s possible. I guess the only way you could prevent the computers being hit by a spike/surge on the data line is to connect them wirelessly — if there’s no wire, there’s no path for the hit to travel.

That said, the only time my computer has ever taken a hit on the data side has been back in 1992, when I was overseas and connected via an analog phone line.

The hit I’m referring to is a hit via the data line. You should always use surge protection or a UPS for the power line of each device — modem, router, computer, printer, etc.

Ah…, thanks for the clarification, Jim. You know, I’ve heard of people getting killed, just from using the telephone (land line) during a lightning storm.

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I plug everything that I have on my computer desk, (computer, scanner, printer, monitor, speakers etc.) on the one surge protector.
I also tack on some rechargeable items, like cellphone and iPad, for surge protection as well. Why not, might as well.
No need to worry about the load exceeding the outlet as my total amp load is under 2.4-3 amps (300-400W) at idle (with everything powered on).
For other things like an expensive TV and or stereo system, a separate surge protector should be used, and preferably on it’s own wall outlet.

UPS
Good for situations where you have a lot of short duration power interrupts, and spikes when the power does come back on, but not so
good for reliance on them for power interrupts of a longer duration. Repeated spikes of power may shorten their lifespans too.

Going off topic:
I’ll use this little device to keep an eye on things, especially since I’m confined to just a 30 amp (3600W) service.
I was originally surprised by how little amp and Wattage draw the computer actually uses given my specs.
It’s not a surge protector of any kind, just a power usage monitor.

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I plug everything that I have on my computer desk, (computer, scanner, printer, monitor, speakers etc.) on the one surge protector.
I also tack on some rechargeable items, like cellphone and iPad, for surge protection as well. Why not, might as well.
No need to worry about the load exceeding the outlet as my total amp load is under 2.4-3 amps (300-400W) at idle (with everything powered on).
For other things like an expensive TV and or stereo system, a separate surge protector should be used, and preferably on it’s own wall outlet.

UPS
Good for situations where you have a lot of short duration power interrupts, and spikes when the power does come back on, but not so
good for reliance on them for power interrupts of a longer duration. Repeated spikes of power may shorten their lifespans too.

Going off topic:
I’ll use this little device to keep an eye on things, especially since I’m confined to just a 30 amp (3600W) service.
I was originally surprised by how little amp and Wattage draw the computer actually uses given my specs.
It’s not a surge protector of any kind, just a power usage monitor.

CLiNT, I almost missed your links, as my eyes find it hard to discern the blue and the black, but glad I did. Like you, I can easily load up one of them mega-sized surge protectors. The one I put on order was an 11 outlet APC. Luv the name of that power usage monitor though– “Kill a Watt.” You raise a point that really intrigues me about the TV/monitor being on a separate surge and wall outlet. See, I have this 42″ TV that I use that doubles as my computer monitor (nice, ha?). I can imagine that it probably does drink a lot of juice. Your advice sounds prudent to me, just that I’m a little challenged to get it in another outlet without the use of some kind of extension cord.

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Your advice sounds prudent to me, just that I’m a little challenged to get it in another outlet without the use of some kind of extension cord.

If that power strip protects as some claim, then everything on the same circuit breaker is also protected. If a power strip protector is on one receptacle. And TV on another receptacle on the same circuit (but on the other side of the room), then that TV has same protection.

No magic exists inside a power strip. Appliances connect direct to AC mains even when connected via that power strip.

Using an extension cord for anything but temporary power is a human safety violation.

How much power do computers consume? Many believe a computer is so hot to also toast bread. Obviously computers are not as hot as toasters. Some examples demonstrate how little power is needed despite hearsay that claim it needs a 600 watt supply:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread/?p=34917091#post34917091

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If that power strip protects as some claim, then everything on the same circuit breaker is also protected. If a power strip protector is on one receptacle. And TV on another receptacle on the same circuit (but on the other side of the room), then that TV has same protection.

No magic exists inside a power strip. Appliances connect direct to AC mains even when connected via that power strip.

Using an extension cord for anything but temporary power is a human safety violation.

How much power do computers consume? Many believe a computer is so hot to also toast bread. Obviously computers are not as hot as toasters. Some examples demonstrate how little power is needed despite hearsay that claim it needs a 600 watt supply:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread/?p=34917091#post34917091

Interesting read, Westom, particulary the fellows who had 46″ Sharp and 40″ Sony TV monitors. Yes, I thought I remembered how ill-advised extension cords are. And I can personally testify as to how hot a failing power supply can get. Moreover, my understanding is that it is entirely possible for say one of those to start a house fire… Like say one leaves their computer to go shopping or otherwise leave the house. There’s a scary thought.

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In order to have the most effective surge protection, one’s home wiring ought to have been done properly
in the first place, meaning no open grounds or improperly wired neutrals.

So the surge protector is only as good as your house’s wiring, and you’ll never find 100% protection from lightning strikes 100% of the time.

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So the surge protector is only as good as your house’s wiring, ….

House wiring is irrelevant. ‘Whole house’ protection works same on 2010 wired homes (three wire receptacles) as it does with 1930 wired homes (two wire receptacles).

Nobody said protection is 100%. IEEE Green Book provides numbers.

Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or diverted to a path which will, if well designed and constructed, not result in damage. Even this means is not positive, providing only 99.5-99.9% protection. …
Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke per 30 years … to one stroke per 6000 years … Protection at 99.5% is the practical choice.

Interior wiring does nothing to “intercept or divert” a surge current. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Any recommendation that cannot say where energy dissipates is not supported by over 100 years of well proven science and experience.

Critical is a low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) connection to “single point earth ground”. Importance demonstrated by this utility’s Tech Tip: http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp
A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Interior wiring is irrelevant.

Do surge protectors slow down internet? Yes if designed for profits. No if designed to perform effective protection. Superior protectors that would not slow internet typically have a low impedance connection to earth.

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Close lightening strikes will put a very large voltage spike on all cables, modem, power, TV etc. There is no protection from this apart from an offline backup and new gear.

cheers, Paul

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There are four main risks you need to address:
1) Spikes. These are short-term high-voltage surges, often caused by lightning. These may contain considerable energy and may destroy devices by arcing, over-voltage or overheating. Normally, protection is provided by low-pass filtering (ferrites/coils and capacitors) and spark gaps. Most good surge protectors will contain components to filter these, both on mains and data lines.
These filter devices on data lines are the components that may cause your broadband stream to slow down. They reduce signal levels (slightly) and reduce the bandwidth of your data connection (slightly). A well-designed surge filter should have no noticeable effect on broadband speed. However, not all surge filters are well designed… Go for a reputable brand and, if you see an effect, try a different one!
2) Long-term over-voltage. This is where the average voltage on the line rises above specified limits for seconds or longer. Mostly caused by poor regulation by the supply company or, occasionally, by things like solar flares (on data lines, mainly). Most good surge filters will contain components (zeners, etc) to protect against this on data lines. Rarely do mains filters protect against this in any practical way, although some will trip out and disconnect the supply – not always an ideal solution! Extended periods of high voltage may burn out devices such as motors, transformers and switch-mode power supplies. There may also be some DC or non-supply-frequency AC superimposed by solar flares. These should be ignored by most well-designed devices.
3) Long-term under-voltage. Where the voltage (especially on mains supplies) drops below the minimum specified value for relatively long periods (known as brown-outs because the lights dim). Normally caused by poor supply regulation (or physical damage to the supply network). These are quite common – more so in some areas than others! Most equipment should be protected against brown-outs (even though it may stop working during the brown-out). The majority of multi-voltage UPS ‘wall warts’ will not notice – most will compensate down to about 80V, although they may overheat if the brown-out lasts too long. Surge protectors will not protect against brown-outs – you’ll need to use an in-line UPS (Line interactive units may cut in during a brown-out – depends on how brown…)
4) Frequency instability: This is almost entirely down to the supply regulation: most suppliers are very picky about this as many devices (including their controllers for feeding multiple generation sources into a common grid) are sensitive to the frequency/phase of the supply. Motors will probably run slow/fast if the frequency changes, but most electronics will not notice unless the frequency falls outside the specified limits – an extremely rare event.

A fifth issue (which is the gotcha that has destroyed several of my PCs) is short term supply interruptions. It’s even worse if there are repeated interruptions, so the PC is powered-down again while it is rebooting. This may destroy PSUs and hard drives (although newer ones seem more resistant) A UPS is the only fix for this (although I have had one issue where the UPS failed and sent repeated pulses of power to my PC, cooking it!).

HTH
Ken.

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A surge protector is a surge protector – there’s nothing to suggest it does anything else. The numbers on the label and in the fine print matter. Some claim, and a few do, reduce noise as well.

Bell Labs in the early Seventies did an extensive study on electronics (NOT electrical) failures of components in various facilities of Bell Telephone (AT&T) and found that the majority of failures were down to sags. I no longer have the article, and can no longer find it via a perfunctory search. It’s certainly true that well-designed components might not suffer damage. However, any system whose power supply does not either suspend or shut down, depending on length of sag, puts downstream components at risk of damage. Which is why anything both important and sensitive gets plugged into a UPS.

A good UPS will include full time “line conditioning” that will output a classic sine wave of specified voltage and frequency, and will fully state all the specifications. Start with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply. Among follow-up articles, especially for system builders, might be the series on power supplies at Tom’s Hardware from a year or two back.

As pointed out above proper grounding starting at the mains entry is essential. For those in affected areas additional thought might be given separate structure protection from lightning. (And seek fact supported by research rather than tradition or claims.)

I live in an active thunderstorm region and while my systems normally run full time there are a handful of times a year when everything gets powered down and unplugged from the wall as well. The usual off time is a couple of hours to let the main storm cell clear the area. Sags, surges, and brief, even repetitive, outages are not uncommon during the worst storms.

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Super Moderator mentioned ground and neutrals as being important. I want to emphasize that improper or broken neutrals can cause high AND low voltages. A friend asked me to resolve an electrical problem in a structure separate from his house fed by an overhead electrical line from his house. He said that some lights were very dim and some very bright. When I measured the voltages from neutral to each hot leg at the breaker box I found them to be about 50 VAC and 180 VAC. They should have been about 115 VAC on each leg. The reason they were unbalanced is that he had lost the neutral leg from his breaker box in his home to the breaker box in his out structure. The overhead wire connection had accidentally had the neutral broken. The only thing controlling the balance of voltages was the loading on each leg. The point is that you can have very abnormal voltages, high and low, even when the power company’s power entering your home is perfectly normal.

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I want to emphasize that improper or broken neutrals can cause high AND low voltages.

Put numbers to this anomaly. Normal voltage for computers is even when an incandescent bulb dims to 40% intensity. Computers are that robust. Voltage variations that would not harm a computer can be potentially harmful to other appliances. Computers are so more robust. And sags do not harm any electronics. (The Bell study defined anomalies; did not list any low voltage as a threat to hardware integrity).

Now, if incandescent bulbs change intensity (ie when any major appliance power cycles), then building has wiring problems. Fix the problem; not symptoms (ie with a UPS). ‘Bulb dimming’ should be resolved. In most cases, it is simply a loose connection or something not that serious. In rare cases, it can be a failure that might create a major human safety threat.

For example, in one location, they ignored an open neutral and light bulbs changing intensity. Eventually, an open neutral in a transformer failed completely. Homeowners also had and ignored a compromised earth ground. So electricity found another ‘neutral’ path via a gas meter. Fortunately nobody was home when the house exploded.

An incandescent bulb is an excellent tool to identify many anomalies. Bulbs changing intensity are reporting problems that should not be ignored. Using a UPS to cure some would be curing symptoms.

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Thanks for the thread everyone! After reading the discussion, I thought I’d add my experience with a significant surge event.

In the early ’80s I worked in Lakewood Ohio at a service bureau. We had frequent thunderstorms, so the company installed a UPS for the entire building: a room full of lead acid batteries. All the power went through there and was filtered. One weekend we had a big thunderstorm and when we came in all the new IBM PC XTs were fried. Literally. I opened mine and the communication board was burnt and discolored. The power surge had gone through the phone system, which was not filtered.

On another “humorous” note, that same UPS room eventually brought down the whole facility. The hydrogen gas from the lead acid batteries collected in the room and exploded, bringing down 8 mainframes and 600 disk drives.

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On another “humorous” note, that same UPS room eventually brought down the whole facility. The hydrogen gas from the lead acid batteries collected in the room and exploded, bringing down 8 mainframes and 600 disk drives.

British Telecom (and probably most other proud owners of Strowger-type exchange equipment) used to have whole rooms filled with 50V lead-acid battery arrays. They, however, were aware of the risk and had forced ventilation and strict no-static rules… I’m not aware of any of their several thousand exchanges blowing up (although I’m willing to be corrected…

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Wow, a lot of neat stuff has come into this thread since I last got to check! Perhaps this thread has the makings of an upcoming Newsletter?

And that’s quite the story Jjvors! Scary.

Perhaps my most obvious and immediate concern in my neighborhood are the spikes from tripped circuit breakers, although recognizing that there are more reasons than one can shake a stick at. I was curious, and so went to “windows” shop for UPS’s online. Frankly, if one lends much credence to such reviews, I was amazed by the high percentage of discouraged or disgruntled consumers of such devices, regardless of brand.

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While we are on the topic of UPS’s and surge protectors. When it comes to power conditioning, it is a good idea to remind folks that you never put a “consumer grade” surge protector after a “consumer grade” UPS. It is quite common to use power strips after a UPS, but these should not be surge protecting power strips.

Consumer grade UPS’s, as I’ve labled them, use square waves or steps in their output, not true sine waves. At each “step” the wave is square with many high frequencies. Consumer grade surge protectors most commonly use MOV’s to shunt the over voltage and over frequency waves. MOV are degraded each time they shunt a wave and ultimately “wear out”, although with significant over voltage they can immediately “burn out”. To simplify things a little bit, the Joule rating is how much energy they can absorb before the burn/wear out.

There are “industrial grade” solutions out there, but they are very expensive. They use things like true sine wave inverters and “gas discharge tubes” (which also have a life span), but unless you are very familiar with these items, you most assuredly are buying consumer grade (as I’ve defined them) products and no surge protection should be down stream of the UPS. Put the surge protection before the UPS.

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I have lived and operated a store on the Oregon coast for many years. Our weather and power quality is about as bad as it gets. In the winter, storms packing winds over 100MPH are common, very frequent thunder storms in the spring, main power lines into the county come over the top of the coast range with it’s snow and heavy rains and slides and wind, there’s two main lines into our area and until recently only one, and tourists crashing into power poles all summer. I used to use surge protectors on everything until lightning struck nearby and my VCR went up in flames (not just smoke, actual flames.)

Since then I have put a UPS between every piece of 120V AC equipment that I own and the wall outlet – at home and in the store. The ones in the store are big ones with fancy readouts that tell you all kinds of stuff about your power. They frequently report major fluctuations on the power lines. The others just buzz or click. And they do buzz or click quite often. I recently had to mount a network switch up on a wall to connect two systems into the lan in the store, so I went out and bought a small UPS and screwed it right up there to plug the switch into.

Since changing to UPSs on every piece of electronic equipment, I have not lost a single piece of equipment to power problems. An additional bonus is that the reliability of my equipment has skyrocketed. I used to replace lots of hardware due to hard failures, even though they did not relate to a particular lightning strike. I have had almost no hardware failures since I quite using surge protectors and switched to UPSs. I think dirty power wears things out faster than clean power. Now my old surge protectors and any others I come across for free are used for plugging in lights and such. They must do some good because it kind of sort of seems like the light bulbs last longer and I don’t remember any blowing up in lightning storms for a long time.

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Most consumer UPS use pseudo-sine wave, not square wave. Reason is: less noise and higher efficiency, and then the other mentioned advantages elsewhere here.
Pseudo-sine wave is piecewise linearized sine wave (connecting short straight lines to mimic curved sine wave.) Some use a string of diodes to ‘non-linearize’ the square wave or the pseudo-sine wave, forming high fidelity sine wave. After filtering and/or coil/transformer, the sine wave distortion is almost completely removed.

This is off topic. The title is for surge protection on networking.
Before going back to main topic …

Protection against lightning is a subject by itself.
Conductor or insulator are adjectives. To a nano-Volt source, steel alloy is high resistance. To lightning voltage, air is a conductor.

AC voltage has its own protection scheme too.
Then, specifically, house AC power is all by itself on protection.
RF (microwave, radar, wireless) is as pure sine wave as it can get for efficiency reasons. It itself again has its own unique protection scheme. (Radar output and TV station output are dangerous, could kill a person).

Then there is DC.
It can be separated in groups of ranges. Each range has its own unique protection scheme.
At high DC voltage, there is danger but not as bad as equivalent AC sine wave. That is why electric car has certain concern of too high a DC voltage, for consumer safety. Otherwise, we can use much higher DC voltage for high efficiency and lighter weight. W=V^2/R: high voltage means less copper; 12V car battery uses heavy cable; high voltage transmission line uses kilo-volts. (And it is converted to DC kilo-volts first!)

For lightning, even the thick plastic of a phone cannot stop the electrocution. The trick is avoidance, or leads the energy to somewhere else.

There is no absolute protection. Cost maybe prohibitive for 99.999% protection.

In general, a ‘roadblock’ in between provides extra protection. UPS, between AC power and electronic appliance, is one good ‘roadblock’. To use surge protection after UPS does provide additional protection, BUT … the diminishing ‘return on investment’ is minimal, bordering on nil.

Now the topic:
In Internet connection, as mentioned by others here, there is high degree of protection already (some mandated by regulations and laws to protect the public). For additional cost, or nearly no cost, you can use surge protection power strip for extra ‘road block protection’. The question is

“At what cost?”

Yes, ‘numbers’ are now important, for that extra protection (that adds 0.0009% extra safety, for example).
Surge protection is generally by MOV devices. They add capacitance to the load. But the network electronic driver capability is quite high. I doubt that it decreases speed by even 1%.

Do a mental calculation for worst case (and best protection):
Say …
The protection ‘road block’ is right at the Internet network entry.
So the max speed is your Internet Service Provider service speed. Say, 10Mbps. At 10% degradation it is 9Mbps.
Surfing the Internet averages no better than 2-3Mbps, even 720p HD Youtube would be less than 5Mbps.
Result: no effect, but adds 0.0009% extra safety against frying the appliance.

Now, say, you put the ‘road block’ in the local networking, at 100Mbps. The ‘roadblock’ effectiveness against external surge is now much less effective. Assume again 10% degradation, still getting 90Mbps. Is it worth the 10% degradation for 0.0000009% extra safety?

You decide.

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Oh, I got into my reasons for recommending UPS and forgot about the ethernet. I put a UPS on the DSL or cable modem, make sure I’ve got a good lightning filter at the DMark, and hope for the best. If, by some slim chance, a damaging spike does come through the phone or cable line, it might damage the modem, but is extremely unlikely to continue on to my main router (or to your PC.) There are surge protector connectors for phone and Ethernet on almost all of my UPSs (and even cable on two of them) but I don’t use them. As I said earlier, I had a lot of problems due to faulty power, but I’ve never (knock wood!) had a problem caused by my data cables. The world is full of risks and one must weight them against the costs. I’ve just never felt the risk to justify the hassle.

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I put a UPS on the DSL or cable modem, make sure I’ve got a good lightning filter at the DMark, and hope for the best. If, by some slim chance, a damaging spike does come through the phone or cable line, it might damage the modem, but is extremely unlikely to continue on to my main router (or to your PC.)

Rhetoric that even violates what was taught in elementary school science. But it works when conclusions exist by not asking why and for numbers.

If a surge is incoming to that filter, then the same current is also outgoing on the other side. It is called electxricity. An outgoing current (towards appliances) is equal and simultaneous with the incoming current. That also says why filters do not perform effective protection.

Or did you believe a centimeters filter will stop what three miles of sky could not? Only rhetoric makes that conclusion.

A least expensive solution makes direct lightning strikes irrelevant. Unfortunately, many believe a higher price is required for better quality. Quality is defined by knowledge; not money. And still some remain so uninformed as to even forget what was taught in elementary school science. And still many thing a millimeter gap in a UPS relay will somehow stop it. Neither the filter no UPS claim any such protection. But that means numbers that any layman can read. Instead, many know by always ignoring numbers. And by forgetting what was taught in elementary school science.

Filters that somehow stop a surge would not harm internet signals? Obviously, protectors that work by filtering provide near zero protection while subverting internet signals – slowing down Internet speeds. That is OP’s question in his original post.

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If a surge is incoming to that filter, then the same current is also outgoing on the other side. It is called electxricity. An outgoing current (towards appliances) is equal and simultaneous with the incoming current. That also says why filters do not perform effective protection.

The most direct path to ground is probably through the ground lead of the power cord, not through a small gauge Ethernet cable to your computer, through the small traces of the computer circuitry and out it’s power cord. The most elementary electronic theory says that current follows the path of least resistance.

Look, I read the first couple of postings on this thread and posted an answer. I didn’t realize that the thread had devolved into a philosophical battle by that time. I don’t have time for such nonsense, so please count me out.

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Thanks fellas for all of your input. Well, I certainly have read several schools of thought.

Here is where I stand right now in my discernment. I have read too many testimonies that claim at least some surge protectors significantly slow internet speeds. Yet perhaps there are some SP’s that do not. And there can be all kinds of reasons for spikes/surges on data lines, so it really is prudent to protect those ports of entry. So maybe my best bet is to try to protect those lines, and if the bottle neck is strong, then try another brand protector? I really don’t like trial and error, wasting money and such, but what can I do?

I am not too electrically/electronically savvy, but I ordered that APC model because it at least also featured a “fail safe” mode, that supposedly does not continue to feed unprotected power to components in case of protection failure, unlike other SP’s that will. Imagine that!– I’m still scratchin’ my head on that one.

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… I ordered that APC model because it at least also featured a “fail safe” mode, that supposedly does not continue to feed unprotected power to components in case of protection failure, …

If a surge can blow through protection already inside electronics, then it easily blows through (continues to be conducted by) that ‘disconnect feature’. Second, destructive surges are done in microseconds. That disconnect feature takes milliseconds.

Facilities that can never have damage would not use that APC. Too expensive. Does not even claim to protect from destructive transients. The other and effective solutions also do not cause significant signal degradation. Superior solutions already exist on telephone and cable wires. Have been required longer than anyone here has been alive. All this was discussed previously.

Testimonials say little that is useful. Claims were made without discussing basic electrical concepts and devoid of what must always exist – the numbers. No one needs to be savvy. Fundamental to any decision – only those recommended with numbers have integrity. No numbers is the first indication of a scam. For example, how does its hundreds of joules stop or absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Separate idle claims from solid recommendations. Numbers define the fewer and informative ones.

Anything that might stop or block that surge is already inside all electronics. And does degrade signals. Your concern is an anomaly that cannot be stopped by anything. Especially when it can only disconnect long after surge damage is done. Damning numbers – microseconds. Or a millimeters gap that will somehow stop that three miles of sky could not.

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If a surge can blow through protection already inside electronics, then it easily blows through (continues to be conducted by) that ‘disconnect feature’. Second, destructive surges are done in microseconds. That disconnect feature takes milliseconds.

Facilities that can never have damage would not use that APC. Too expensive. Does not even claim to protect from destructive transients. The other and effective solutions also do not cause significant signal degradation. Superior solutions already exist on telephone and cable wires. Have been required longer than anyone here has been alive. All this was discussed previously.

Testimonials say little that is useful. Claims were made without discussing basic electrical concepts and devoid of what must always exist – the numbers. No one needs to be savvy. Fundamental to any decision – only those recommended with numbers have integrity. No numbers is the first indication of a scam. For example, how does its hundreds of joules stop or absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Separate idle claims from solid recommendations. Numbers define the fewer and informative ones.

Anything that might stop or block that surge is already inside all electronics. And does degrade signals. Your concern is an anomaly that cannot be stopped by anything. Especially when it can only disconnect long after surge damage is done. Damning numbers – microseconds. Or a millimeters gap that will somehow stop that three miles of sky could not.

Westom, let me try to clarify what I mean by “fail safe” mode. I’ll quote the manufacturer: “Fail Safe Mode: Most other surge suppressors continue to let power through even after their circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to future surges. APC’s SurgeArrest fail safe, which means that once the circuit of an APC SurgeArrest has been compromised the unit disconnects equipment from the power supply ensuring that no damaging surges reach your equipment.”

I apologize for my confusion, but it sounds to me like you are saying that with all the built-in mechanisms in many electronics, that SP’s are an unnecessary level of protection, that one either gets overwhelmed or one does not. To me, I think that theory and numbers are great, but I am a practical man, concerned about real life experience. Are all those who gave testimonies liars then? And numbers?– manufacturers have used those to bewitch, bedazzle, and mislead consumers for years. I remember Tom’s Hardware did a great job testing how power supplies compared to one another, noting that their numbers were so far off the benchmarks as to be scandalous. Not all power supplies of the same rated wattage are of the same caliber.

Let me ask you in caveman laymen’s terms, what would you do were you me? Tell me about your real world solution? What model SP or UPs, if any would you opt, and do you have your own data lines incorporated into them?

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Westom, let me try to clarify what I mean by “fail safe” mode. I’ll quote the manufacturer: “Fail Safe Mode: Most other surge suppressors continue to let power through even after their circuits have been damaged, leaving your equipment exposed to future surges. [/quote] They made the claim without numbers. Disconnected for up to how many volts? If that ‘fail safe’ circuit did what you have assumed, then an appliance’s power switch does same.

Early 1900 Ham radio operators would disconnect their antennas. Even increase the ‘disconnect’ by placing the lead inside a mason jar. And still suffered damage. Damage stopped when they connected that antenna lead to earth ground. Notice what does protection. Where does APC even discuss earth ground? They don’t. They claim an ‘open switch’ will stop a surge. Without any number to that protection. If true, then superior protection already inside appliances does it better.

I never said SPs are useless. But I did say the SP you are using is something completely different from SPs used where damage cannot happen. Even a protector, installed for free by your telco, does more than what the APC claims to do.

If a testimonial is not tempered by numbers, then, at minimum, it is useless. Often bogus. And sometimes a scam. If any testimonial is honest, then it can cite a spec number for each claim.

We are talking about two completely different devices. You have considered one that does not even claim to protect from a typically destructive surge. I have defined a completely different device, unfortunately with the same name (ie SP), that protects from all types of surges including direct lightning strikes. And costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Two completely different solutions exist. One that actually does protection ‘always’ (as in always) has a low impedance connection to single point earth ground. How do I make this any more obvious. Protection is never about a protector. How do I get you to understand that?

If APC does protection, then you cite the spec number that defines that protection. How many joules will it absorb? Effective protection means hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly. That’s a layman’s number. How many joules does APC claim to absorb? It was not a rhetorical question. Post their number.

How many joules will it absorb? And why will its millimeter disconnect stop what three miles of sky cannot. Effective solutions never try to stop a surge. The ‘disconnect’ is only for an anomaly that typically does no damage. But again, if you know otherwise, then you have an APC number that defines it.

Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate? Again, not a rhetorical question. A number exists if protection exists. APC has provided their number. Quote it. The other and completely different device with a same name does harmlessly diverts hundreds of thousands of joules. To protect everything in the house … including the refrigerator. And remain functional.

How many recommended a grossly undersized protector and then called it a one shot device?

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Westom, I am beginning to suspect you just like to argue. Don’t get me wrong… I do understand the gist of some of what you are saying, particularly for example the functionality of suitable, proper grounding in a circuit. But when it comes to voltage spikes and surges, I am considering more that lightning strikes, as from what I understand, there exist all kinds of sources of possible incursions. Obviously, it does not take much, for why are we seriously cautioned about conducting static electricity to the motherboard when we build our systems? Seems to me these electronics are very sensitive. I may lack expertise, but this is some reasonable stuff to me.

And you failed to tell me your real world solution, and what this $1 part is. You ignore/overlook, do not listen nor consider what I say, what I ask. Please come down to earth, brother, and get yourself grounded.

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Obviously, it does not take much, for why are we seriously cautioned about conducting static electricity to the motherboard when we build our systems? Seems to me these electronics are very sensitive.

Appreciate my problem. Numerous half facts and myths must be unlearned. For example, yes, electronics can be damage by 40 volts. And that same electronic part is designed to withstand 15,000 volts. How can two so contradictory facts be correct? ‘Devil is in the details’.
http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX1487E-MAX491E.pdf

Previously posted were solutions. None were $1 parts. It “costs about $1 per protected appliance.”

Remember how electricity works. If a surge is incoming to a protector, then a same electric current is simultaneously outgoing from protector into appliance. APC needed you to forget that concept.

A solution was defined previously:

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. ‘Earthing’ is the “art”.

Also

Critical is a low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) connection to “single point earth ground”. http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp

Apparently, you did not yet grasp it.

Protection is always about how hundreds of thousands of joules connect harmlessly and low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) to earth ground (not wall receptacle safety ground). Again, protectors do not do protection. Earth ground does.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate.

That same joules number should concern you when an APC only claims to absorb hundreds of joules.

Defined was existing and superior protection already on cable TV and telephone lines. How good? An answer is found in what you have installed, inspected, or upgraded. Basic concepts from elementary school science apply.

Your cable (should) already has best possible protection. A wire connects from the cable, low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) to earth. As best protection, it also does not degrade internet signals; does not slow down internet speeds.

Telephone cannot connect direct to earth. So a telco installs a next best thing. A protector (installed for free) does what a wire does for cable. Neither protector nor wire does protection. Protection defined by what that wire and protector connect to: single point earth ground.

If any wire inside any cable does not connect to earth before entering the building, then protection for all appliances is compromised. Defined is best possible protection that also costs tens or 100 times less money. An ‘art’ has only been summarized. Plenty of details (many with numbers) need be learned. The solution is inexpensive. Hard part is learning these concepts. And unlearning what is taught by advertising and hearsay.

Describe your existing earth ground. How does your ‘installed for free’ telco protector connect to earth? How is your cable hardwired to earth? Before a solution can be installed, what exists must be defined. Did you read the Tech Tip? A figure titled “preferred, wrong, and right” was part of your best answer.

Your question was answered numerous times (see the many quotes). Unfortunately you read but did not grasp the solution.

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electronics can be damage by 40 volts. And that same electronic part is designed to withstand 15,000 volts. How can two so contradictory facts be correct? ‘Devil is in the details’. http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds…7E-MAX491E.pdf

That datasheet is for an electronic transceiver line driver (the little chip that sends/receives the data signal on your ethernet cable to your modem/router). Like most electronic parts, they run on low voltages. Their datasheets may specify thousands of volts for certain parts, like the insulation, which has nothing to do with the operating voltage of the part. The spec you read of 15k volt is ESD (Electro Static Discharge) rating for the device CASE that protects the electronics on the inside.

Other hazards on power lines are:
*Brown-outs: lower voltages than needed, sometimes during heavy loads like heat waves causing high power consumption, often causing data corruption and lock-ups. Most computers will run on sub-100 volt power (I think it can cause power supply overheating)
*Spikes: inconsistent power from the outlet with short-duration increases in voltage (similar to weak lightning, or turning off a circuit breaker, Of course if you turn off a breaker, there is no power to the device so spiking should be very weak)
*Over-voltage: Power company is failing to regulate their power properly, generating too high a voltage, potentially weakening MOV’s in surge protectors and the user not being aware

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Westom, I appreciate your efforts on trying to school me, but the first link with all its schematics is just hieroglyphics to me. And I do get the gist of the Duke energy link, but again, storms are probably the least of my spike/surge concerns in the area I live. Granted, I understand that no SP is likely to prevent destruction from incoming lightning or power disturbances because of such storms– I concede that SP manufacturers seem to not guarantee against that, and moreover, that their “lifetime” guarantees and bold claims of multi-thousand dollar reimbursements have been the frustration of many.

From my understanding, there are several other occasions for possible spike/surge incursions… e.g. a tripped circuit breaker, a particular concern of mine where I live. If you like, you can see this little blurb on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_spike

I have to wonder how many other folks on this forum follow your model of protection, whatever precisely that is. Moreover, I acknowledge that we are all even at the mercy of our computer power supplies, and no SP will protect from that. But I am persuaded that still, SP’s have a rightful place in one’s computer system, until someone can really convince me otherwise. Again, real world experience.

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Surge suppression is handled by MOV’s (Metal Oxide Varistor) in consumer power strips and UPS’s. A MOV normally has near “infinite” resistance and is connected across two power lines. It is rated in “clamping” volts. When the voltage on the line exceeds the clamping voltage, the MOV’s resistance goes to near zero, effectively causing a temporary short circuit in the power supply line, preventing the voltage on the line from spiking and continuing down the wire to the device being protected. It is common for a lightning strike to hit and burn out or seriously degrade MOV’s without the user knowing it, leaving useless or weakened for the next strike. If you’ve been hit by lightning, it is suggested you replace your power strips. MOV’s respond in a few microseconds. They (and therefore the power strips they are in) are rated in joules, which is the amount of energy they can absorb before their destruction. Multiple MOV’s increase protection proportionally. Avalanche diodes act similarly, but are less likely to degrade on small stirkes, but more likely to suffer total destruction on stronger ones. You can also have an electrician install a suppressor for your entire house, remembering that the more protection the less likely the lightning strike will get to your equipment.

Note that this has nothing to do with filtering, which smooths and stabilizes the incoming power. Filtering can help suppress electrical “noise” (like static in a radio). Noise often comes in from certain nearby electrical devices on the same circuit, such as power tools that have “brush” type motors. “Noise” symptoms are typically computer lock-up or freezing (not the same as a computer that has a program taking all the cpu power for itself thereby making the rest of the computer appear frozen).

Don’t forget your cable inputs to your TV’s. They make in-line suppressors for coax cable. I’ve personally lost equipment from cable coax hits.

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Surge suppression is handled by MOV’s (Metal Oxide Varistor) in consumer power strips and UPS’s. A MOV normally has near “infinite” resistance and is connected across two power lines. It is rated in “clamping” volts. When the voltage on the line exceeds the clamping voltage, the MOV’s resistance goes to near zero, effectively causing a temporary short circuit in the power supply line, preventing the voltage on the line from spiking and continuing down the wire to the device being protected. It is common for a lightning strike to hit and burn out or seriously degrade MOV’s without the user knowing it, leaving useless or weakened for the next strike. If you’ve been hit by lightning, it is suggested you replace your power strips. MOV’s respond in a few microseconds. They (and therefore the power strips they are in) are rated in joules, which is the amount of energy they can absorb before their destruction. Multiple MOV’s increase protection proportionally. Avalanche diodes act similarly, but are less likely to degrade on small stirkes, but more likely to suffer total destruction on stronger ones. You can also have an electrician install a suppressor for your entire house, remembering that the more protection the less likely the lightning strike will get to your equipment.

Note that this has nothing to do with filtering, which smooths and stabilizes the incoming power. Filtering can help suppress electrical “noise” (like static in a radio). Noise often comes in from certain nearby electrical devices on the same circuit, such as power tools that have “brush” type motors. “Noise” symptoms are typically computer lock-up or freezing (not the same as a computer that has a program taking all the cpu power for itself thereby making the rest of the computer appear frozen).

Don’t forget your cable inputs to your TV’s. They make in-line suppressors for coax cable. I’ve personally lost equipment from cable coax hits.

Why is it that I find you easier to understand, Cpusrvc? Thanks for the explain.

Would that coax cable also apply to say an over-the-air broadcast antenna which runs a coax cable???

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Why is it that I find you easier to understand, Cpusrvc? Thanks for the explain.

Would that coax cable also apply to say an over-the-air broadcast antenna which runs a coax cable???

Its easier to understand because I know what I’m talking about :rolleyes:, and not trying to assemble pieces of information that may or may not fit together. Coax suppressors are not easy to find. They used to be more common, but no one seemed to know about them so I guess it wasn’t profitable to handle them. You know the RF TV adapters of olden days, that had a 2″ L x 1/2″ dia black cylinder with a coax thread on one end and two-wire pigtail with 2 spade connectors that were held by screws onto the back of TV sets (still on cheap stereos for speakers)? It’s just like that, without the pigtail wire, and instead has coax threads on both ends. You might find them in electronics stores, like Bestbuy, Tiger Direct, etc. or Ebay. I know after I lost a VCR and a TV to lightning hits, it sold me on their value.

If you are using an indoor antenna, you don’t need one, because the lightning isn’t (hopefully) likely to come into your house. If it does, you’ll have more problems than just your equipment! For people with cable service, don’t think that because the cable is underground you’re protected. There is the neighborhood junction box where your cable comes out. If it gets hit, it will travel thru the underground cable.

If you are not worried about lightning much, then it must be the power to your house that concerns you. I’d seriously consider a whole house suppressor. They are not very expensive, but it might take an electrician an hour. These devices are often used in the commercial environment for small buildings, with their own power feed. I don’t know if a residential electrician would know about them, you’d have to ask and how many they have done. It’s not hard though, and I’m sure they come with simple instructions. If you install a whole-house unit, you should still have protected power strips. The house unit will have a little higher rating to absorb big hits, rather than getting “used up” on little spikes. It will stop a strong strike at the house, and leave a little for the power strips to handle.

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Oh man, do I ever remember the old days of antennae leads and corresponding adapters. Yeah, my antennae is up on the rooftop, feeding a coax line to my TV– I do not have cable, just over-the-air broadcast. But I did get to thinking about the connection on the back of my beloved TV/monitor. The SP I recently ordered and get to pick up tomorrow features such a coax input. Unfortunately, I can’t practically test what kind of effect my data lines might have their internet speeds compromised or not, as my current system is really squirrelly right now, until I get my new system up and running.

And yes, it is the power to and within my house that most concerns me. Thanks for the house suppressor idea. I have lost too many telephone answering machines and monitors, all because silly me mistakenly thought I was plugging into an SP, which was actually nothing more than a power strip. Oh, it’s embarrassing to reveal that. I have had great luck this past year after installing a real SP.

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Would that coax cable also apply to say an over-the-air broadcast antenna which runs a coax cable???

TV antenna must be earthed directly, as even required by code. Then its coax must be earthed again where cable enters the building. Also required by code. But installed with greater car (according to the Tech Tip) so that it also does transistor protection. Critical is not a coax protector. Critical ia a ‘less than 10 foot’ wire to single point earth ground.

Cable protectors are hard to locate because they are unnecessary. And because cable companies strongly recommend not using them, for reasons defeined by spec numbers. Spec numbers say why some cause problems. Others that do not are extremely expensive. You asked about slow internet speed. One reason can be a coax protector that does not require a short earthing connection. Does not have the proper spec numbers. Or does not claim to protect from the other and typically destructive surge.

Most destructive surges are made irrelevant only by the wire from a coax to earth ground. That is best protection (as posted previously).

It will remain difficult until the concept and critical importance of earth ground is appreciated. You still do not get it. Most never learn becuse advertising avoids all discussion of earthing. Otherwise you would learn that APC only claims to protect from surges that typically do no damage. Due to existing protection even found even in dimmer switches and CFL bulbs.

cpusrvc has accurately describes how your APC protector works for a typically irrelevant surge. We engineers always determined why damage happened. By even replacing semiconductors to make everything work. To literally trace ech surge path. To confirm what happens when a protector is too close to electronics and too far from earth ground. And to identify reasons for that damage – a compromised earth ground.

Destructive surges hunt for earth. Appliance is damaged when that connection is via that appliance. A surge enters on the hot (black) wire. An adjacent protector did exactly what cpusrvc said. Current is connected to white and green wires. Surge now has even more paths to hunt for earth destructively via the adjacent computer.

If a surge current is incoming on AC mains, then the same circuit is outgoing via an appliance. No way around that engineering fact. Current from a protector, through a motherboard, exits destructively via a modem. Why? Phone lines already have best protection. Phone lines make a best connection to earth. Adjacent protector simply connected a surge to earth – destructively via the computer.

Rread its spec numbers. That protector can only absorb how many hundreds of joules? A destructive type surge is typically hundreds of thousands of joules. Numbers say why, in rare cases, house fires are created by an undersized protector. What happens when a hundreds joules protector must somehow stop or absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? Same numbers even say why some protectors slow internet speeds.

Appliance adjacent protectors are made as cheaply as possible. A $3 power strip with ten cent protector parts has obscene profits selling for $25 or $80. It pays for expensive advertising that educates most consumers.

An effective protector (ie a ‘whole house’ protector) always must have a low impedance (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) connection to earth. Any layman can identify the two completely different SPs. Only one, that actually protects, always has a low impedance earth connection.

Earth ground is never discussed in advertising or hearsay. It would harm sales. Even cpusrvc did not discuss it. And yet effective surge protection is about earth ground. Some facilities do not even have protectors. And have surge protection only provided by earth ground. The surge that actually does damage (ie lightning, car striking a utility pole, utility switching transients, 33,000 volt wire falling on local distribution, etc) is only made irrelevant by single point earth ground. A protector is only effective when it connects to that protection.

Even that TV antenna must be properly earthed. Otherwise TV protection is compromised. And yes, protection from direct lightning strikes is routine. However many had an APC or something equivalent. Suffered damage. Then assumed no solution exists. Advertising will not discuss what actually makes direct lightning strikes (and other surges) irrelevant. Earth ground. Protector adjacent to appliances can even make that damage easier. As we have seen so many times by literally tracing the surge path.

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A system wide surge protector for a house would run you a few hundred bucks, at the very least, and would be installed just upstream from the junction box.
I don’t imagine it would be cheap because, one, it would have to handle the total current of the house, and two, an electrician would almost certainly have to install it.
That makes no mention of the inspection that would need to be done with most of the codes & standards around these days.

I’ve been looking into one for the TT, I found one for about 60 dollars, but most of the decently rated ones will run you a few hundred dollars easily.
And these are just plug in types at the power source (pedestal).

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Oh man, do I ever remember the old days of antennae leads and corresponding adapters. Yeah, my antennae is up on the rooftop, feeding a coax line to my TV– I do not have cable, just over-the-air broadcast. But I did get to thinking about the connection on the back of my beloved TV/monitor. The SP I recently ordered and get to pick up tomorrow features such a coax input. Unfortunately, I can’t practically test what kind of effect my data lines might have their internet speeds compromised or not, as my current system is really squirrelly right now, until I get my new system up and running.

And yes, it is the power to and within my house that most concerns me. Thanks for the house suppressor idea. I have lost too many telephone answering machines and monitors, all because silly me mistakenly thought I was plugging into an SP, which was actually nothing more than a power strip. Oh, it’s embarrassing to reveal that. I have had great luck this past year after installing a real SP.

If a power strip is not labeled with the # of joules, assume it is not a surge protector. Also, look at different units and compare the joule rating. I have been surprised that some lower priced, plain strips have better ratings that more expensive, more sophisticated looking units. The 2 main things to consider: clamping voltage (point at which it kicks in, usually about 160v I think) and joules (amount of energy it can dissipate). If you are having problems with your power line, definitely use surge protectors with filters that smooth the power to the electronic devices. I believe the unit of measure for noise level is dB. I don’t remember if a higher or lower number is better.

A system wide surge protector for a house would run you a few hundred bucks, at the very least, and would be installed just upstream from the junction box.
I don’t imagine it would be cheap because, one, it would have to handle the total current of the house, and two, an electrician would almost certainly have to install it.
That makes no mention of the inspection that would need to be done with most of the codes & standards around these days.

I’ve been looking into one for the TT, I found one for about 60 dollars, but most of the decently rated ones will run you a few hundred dollars easily.
And these are just plug in types at the power source (pedestal).

The house surge protector doesn’t handle the total current of the house. Because the surge protector is connected across the lines, nothing goes thru it except when the line voltage exceeds the clamping voltage. When that happens, only the excess power goes thru it, just as it would with a power strip. Because its being used to protect all devices in the entire house, it should have a high joule rating. I saw prices from $60-$250 for the device. If you are handy at all, it may be a self-install project. Just Google it.

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The 2 main things to consider: clamping voltage (point at which it kicks in, usually about 160v I think) and joules (amount of energy it can dissipate).

First, one must know normal peak voltage for 120 VAC is 185 volts. Even electricians must know that. A 160 volt protector would burn up or disconnect immediately. Second, protectors specs define its let-through voltage. Typically 330 volts (not 160). That 330 volt spec numbers is printed on every protector box.

Is it a protector? Then it must have a UL 1449 listing – to define human safety; not transistor safety.

A ‘whole house’ protector does not work as only assumed. It works completely differently due to something that does not exist with the other and completely different protector (ie the APC) – ‘single point earth ground’.

A ‘whole house’ protector is called ‘secondary’ protection. Is protection from all types of surges – including a typically destructive type sometimes created by a stray squirrel.

Only a few really know this stuff. Homeowners are strongly advised to inspect their ‘primary’ surge protection. What defines each protection layer? A picture demonstrates what to inspect in your ‘primary’ surge protection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

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First, one must know normal peak voltage for 120 VAC is 185 volts. Even electricians must know that. A 160 volt protector would burn up or disconnect immediately. Second, protectors specs define its let-through voltage. Typically 330 volts (not 160). That 330 volt spec numbers is printed on every protector box.

Is it a protector? Then it must have a UL 1449 listing – to define human safety; not transistor safety.

A ‘whole house’ protector does not work as only assumed. It works completely differently due to something that does not exist with the other and completely different protector (ie the APC) – ‘single point earth ground’.

A ‘whole house’ protector is called ‘secondary’ protection. Is protection from all types of surges – including a typically destructive type sometimes created by a stray squirrel.

Only a few really know this stuff. Homeowners are strongly advised to inspect their ‘primary’ surge protection. What defines each protection layer? A picture demonstrates what to inspect in your ‘primary’ surge protection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Westom, thank you for correcting my mistake about the voltage and the whole house protection. It’s been 25 years since I worked on this stuff, and I forgot some all-important details.

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Power companies have been mentioned several times in this discussion, so I thought a brief discussion of power company lightning protection is in order:

At the most basic level, power companies attempt to PREVENT lightning from striking the most vulnerable parts of the system. Power lines, by their length, are the most vulnerable part of the system. That’s not to say substations are not vulnerable, but there’s a whole lot more opportunity for lightning to hit power lines. AC Transmission lines (there are DC lines, but those are far fewer) are those lines operating between generation (power stations) and load (substations) and typically operate (in the U.S.) between 128 KV and 765 KV and make up what’s called the “power grid”. You can actually tell the design voltage of a power line by observing the length of the insulators at each tower. Here comes the lightning prevention part: Look closely at the transmission line the next time you see one. ABOVE the conductors you will see one or two thinner wires which, at every tower, are grounded. This is the lightning prevention. Lightning will most often hit these top wires rather than the conductors. The angle between an imaginary vertical line pointing down and an imaginary line connecting the thin wire to the outermost conductor is called the “angle of protection”. The smaller the angle of protection, the less chance lightning will strike the conductors.

Of course, passive prevention above is not 100% effective. At an active level, here is how lightning protection works for power lines: At each substation there are relays that “look” a variable distance down each line. By “look”, I mean they are continually measuring the impedance (= resistance + reactance [vector addition]) of the line they are connected to and are adjusted through settings to look a set distance down the line. So it might be set to “look” just past the next substation, overlapping their protection for an extra measure of protection. (Note: The famous Northeast blackout of 1965 was caused by the incorrect setting of a relay on a line between the U.S. and Canada, so these settings are critical.) Normal, ambient air ionizes at about 10,000 volts per centimeter (= about 25,000 volts per inch). So when lightning strikes a power line it will often cause an arc of ionized air between the conductor and some ground point or even between two conductors. The relay senses this change in impedance and activates the breaker to open the circuit in a fraction of one cycle (1 cycle = 1/60th of a second). The problem is that, after the lightning energy is dissipated, the arc remains. The arc is a very low impedance, so it is a short for the power line even at normal operating voltages. The “recloser” at the substation attempts to close the breaker, but often the relay still “sees” the arc. The recloser will attempt this typically about 5 or 6 times and then “give up” and leave the line open. By attempting to reclose the line, the recloser is trying to get the arc to extinguish. However, it could be that it’s not an arc. It could be a tree limb across the conductors, so leaving it open is the only option for that case. Did you ever notice that, when the lights go out due to a lightning strike, they come back on for a second or less, and flicker a few times before staying on or staying out? You are seeing the recloser operating.

The above is what power companies do to protect their equipment and your home. The lightning protection equipment used is manufactured by companies like General Electric and Westinghouse. The place they test their equipment in a field situation is always in central Florida because that area has the highest number of lightning strikes per square mile per year in the world. They take their lightning seriously in central Florida as you can see by this
http://www.aprsfl.net/weather/lightning/
website of live strikes.

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About the initial question: Do surge suppressors affect download speed. I know of no reason a surge suppressor would slow down speed. However, if there is the unlikely situation where there is a filter circuit (see my description above) involved that your signal goes thru, that will affect the speed.

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CLiNT–A house SP does sound mighty nice. You’re right though… Money is a bit tight. I’m already eating enough beans, brown rice, and potatoes as it is.

Cpusrvc— This particular SP is rated 3020 joules with a let-through voltage of 330. Does a DSL filter count in terms of internet speed response?

Westom— I must be really stupid, because yeah, I’m still not getting it. I’ll tell you what I do get. I get that current normally tends to seek ground via the path of least resistance. I get that if say for example my hand arcs a wrench across the terminals of my car battery, I’m gonna get a good charge out of it, that I’m going to take a hit. If that battery puts out at 12 volts, I’m going to be zapped with 12 volts, and if it were supercharged to 13v, I would get zapped with 13v (not ignoring the amperage).

Okay, let’s take this car out on the road. I start the car with 12v, and off we go… The alternator kicks in to keep charging the battery and distributing power, but I have a messed up voltage regulator, such that my alternator is sending too much voltage out. Something is going to give somewhere. (Don’t laugh, but I had this happen once… my alternator, due to bad regulator overcharged my battery. I had just pulled over into a most quiet country parking lot, and BLAM!… my battery exploded. About dropped a pantload). Note that everything about my car was grounded properly.

My point is that I do not understand, because it seems to me there out to be some kind of voltage regulator in the system. What is going to do that for me in a computer? If I get a voltage spike/surge, than it is going to remain at that level going through the system no matter how well grounded it is unless regulated by some mechanism or another. I hear a lot of theory from you and lots of talk about grounding, but no concrete examples of things to get on Amazon, or Newegg, whatever. At least I understand that with an SP, it is supposed to take the hit before the confuser does.

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My point is that I do not understand, because it seems to me there out to be some kind of voltage regulator in the system.

You describe lightning in terms of something (ie regulator) can impeded or stop it. Nothing can. As in nothing. (Protectors adjacent to appliances must somehow and futilely stop, block, absorb, or regulate a surge.)

A surge is a current source. A typical 20,000 amps will flow to ground no matter what you do to stop it. That 20,000 amps will increase voltage as necessary to blow through anything that might stop it. It cannot be stopped, blocked, or regulated. And it does the damage in microseconds (nothing can disconnect fast enough).

Concepts were originally introduced in elementary school science. Why does lightning strike a church steeple? Because wood is an electrical conductor. That 20,000 amps will increase voltage as necessary to blow through wood. Numbers they did not provide: 20,000 amps creates a high voltage. 20,000 amps times a high voltage is high energy. Church steeple damaged.

Franklin earthed a lightning rod. Now that 20,000 amps has a more conductive path to earth. The numbers: 20,000 amps now creates a near zero voltage. 20,000 amps times a near zero voltage is near zero energy. Nothing damaged.

How do you get a near zero volt lightning strike? Give it a lower “impedance” (not resistance) connection to earth. For example, shorter wire length (not a thicker wire) is important. Shorter as in ‘less than 10 feet’. Even sharp wire bends, splices, or metal conduit increase impedance. Protection means a low impedance (not resistance) connection to what does protection – single point earth ground. And yes, all four words have critical significance.

In every case, protection is defined by where energy dissipates. In your case, energy was absorbed by a battery just like earth absorbs the energy of lightning. However your battery had limits and exploded. Earth ground does not (if electrodes have been properly installed).

Sidebar: your battery event is discussed in automotive literature. Anomalies in a car’s electrical system means 12 volts can rise to 270 volts (SAE J1455 and ISO 7637-1). So electrical system suppliers want their auto electronics to withstand up to “80 to 100 volts” for as much as “300 to 400 milliseconds”. Did you know 12 volts electronics must be that robust? Well you saw why when the battery exploded.

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BTW, wood is not a conductor. In the rain, the water that soaks into (or coats) the wood conducts the electricity. In a live tree, the (water in the) sap conducts the electricity. Take a look some time when they cut up a tree that was struck by lightning into sections; it’s very cool: the lightning goes down a fairly narrow path through the tree trunk.

Also, be aware that almost everything other than electronics is actually damaged by the current, not by voltage. A stun gun can generate over a million volts, but will cause no lasting harm (other than to electronics) because it delivers only a tiny current. A Van deGraff generator (you remember those things with the two globes that make hair stand on end?) can generate millions of volts, and it’s safe to grab because it’s static electricity, with no current (to speak of).

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Wow, numbers, specs, joules, impedance? Only one of you posters seems to have a degree in EE, and even that I am not certain of.

Depressing to read most of these posts. I do not know where to begin, so I will begin here:

OP question: No, you should not realize speed degradation by simply using an in-line surge protector on your Cat 5/6 cable unless it is faulty – i.e. taken a hit. The question you have to ask is would you rather have to open your box to replace a card or the MB if you do take a hit, that can come from an array of sources, not just the line into your house. More on that later on.

Truly safe sources of AC source power are gotten from battery rooms that run inverters (the device that preceded what you now can call your home owner toaster-like UPS (of various types, some of which are very better than others – again more on that later on) that power the phone lines, computers, etc. however the cost of space, maintenance, lead, ventilation, load sizing, cooling, etc has taken its toll and now the old inverters are usually much more than that now, as they usually have line conditioners and auto-transformers that can cut or boost incoming voltage from the sourcing system as it can and will vary due to loading of the power source by the minute…

Near strikes around your environment will penetrate your environment by any and all means available to it, sometimes it will seek the less impeded path to ground but do not bet on it, and not necessarily the actual bolt is required to cause induced voltage to kill you, your appliances, your PC, TV, etc. Each bolt has an intense field around it that can reach close to a million or so volts – please note measuring these nodes is extremely difficult and there will never be any consistency in what is measured due to distance variables, initial arc-over currents, humidity etc. but to be certain, a strike in your back yard can and will probably be noticed by any and all things inside your house. The key is to mediate its effects on your property. The same is true for line conducted hits you can sustain from the power source, the landlines, the TV coax cable from your roof, your electric wiring inside your walls, your A/C outside compressor, contactors, etc. You get my point?

You begin by thinking about what is vulnerable. Everything that does not have a working voltage over 110-120 or 220-240 volts can and will be destroyed IF: duration of the over-voltage remains longer than the product is designed to withstand, and two, if the peak current induced in the device exceeds its rating. For example, some NASA hardware is hardened to specs very few people would comprehend due to its intended environment. Same for dishwashers in our homes. Older stuff that used mechanical controls usually never suffered from EMP (induced voltages from lightning, atomic weapons, and yes, even from solar flares. Most of our current technology runs on voltages in the tens of volts on down now and that makes things FAR more susceptible to EMP. And yes, your Fridge’s motor may come on and send a spike into your house circuits that can kill some sensitive devices once in a while once its start capacitor has failed out, as yet another example as most motors usually require high starting current and that does induce the voltage to spike… It goes on and on. Courses and probably thousands of books are readily available if you have an interest in EMP, ESD, grounding and other manners of engineering that seem to be completely missed herein.

Whole house protectors get installed inside your main panel and others if they exist. They are attached to both sides of your incoming 220-240 legs (120 to ground, neutral to ground and 120 to round and 120 to 120) and is then sent to the ground strip which is then run to a star ground system as close as possible on the outside of the house. Its purpose is simply to take very high voltages which more high currents coming in from your power source and shunt them to ground, HOPEFULLY reducing the high peak voltages to manageable levels further on inside using other means. They will help a lot on nearby AC line strikes that survive the power company protections in place. I recommend getting one most highly. You can buy them at almost any electrical distributor – forget Home Depot, et al. The star ground system is nothing more than five or so 8 foot ground rods in a star wired pattern wired directly to your inside box ground strip… simple if you have the motivation and the room.

For all other actual wiring entering your home, the same rules apply – coax from your antenna on the roof, a coaxial lightning arrestor (gap or tube), again tied to the star ground system to keep the spikes off the center conductor of the coax cable helps. The antenna and mast must also be tied directly to the ground system as well but note that this will NOT keep a spike from getting through the center conductor to your TV, set top box, etc., only serve to keep it from actually entering your home via the roof structure. As to cable companies such as FIOS, Comcast, etc. I do not know what is used in their product placements but you can probably be sure there is sufficient protection built in to their interfaces, but then again, I do not KNOW this.

Inducted spikes coming through the air, and through your walls and into your house wiring are the usual modes of spikes that can do damage once the conductive issues are dealt with as above. This is where the strips and UPS and other devices can assist you in your protective scheme. These are most commonly dealt with using 1) Line conditioners, 2) Auto-Transformers, 3) surge protectors, strips, and UPS gear.

1) Line Conditioners are old hat. Their job is to condition the power by placing a standard load on the line using an large to very large inductor that can smooth the voltage out somewhat. Old hat and not all that effective compared to the newer stuff. And big. And heavy.

2) Auto-Transformers are used in better UPS, as well as sold by themselves. They actually boost or cut the voltage as desired so it puts out a more stable and correct range voltage. Some utilities actually try to source 125 VAC to help reduce their sags under heavy loading and when the larger loads are suddenly removed, the voltage goes up from 115-117 and leaves 125 or more on the line at times and this WILL cause incandescent bulbs to burn out faster, voltage sensitive motors to run faster, etc. You can actually buy 130VAC bulbs to prevent this if you have this problem in your area. Auto-Transfomers assist with this problem.

Surge Protectors come in different flavors and uses. Most are rated for the PEAK AC values they are expected to encounter during their life and that is called arc-over, working, gap rating, or breakdown voltage. The amount of power they can shunt to ground is usually rated in Joules. You can find how many joules means what in terms of current and voltage values – I will not go into greater depth than that other than the higher the Joule rating, the more accumulated hits it can take before wear-out and the larger single hit it can withstand without simply destroying itself. This is one of the major problems relying on surge protectors as their use is problematic and varies on its ‘expected’ incoming spikes and what’s not expected which can show up. They can fail out in a single hit or over a combination of smaller hits, and unless some form of monitoring is done, you won’t know it has becoming useless to your needs. These are usually MOV’s but can be made from quite number of other components as well and they all have pros and cons. They all work by shunting the spike from the hot to the neutral (if no ground present in the wiring), or from the hot to the ground wire, from the neutral to ground and from hot to neutral. Read up. Three for 110. Three if 220 and NO Neutral, otherwise Five if 220VAC line.

Surge Strips are endemic everywhere, are they not? They are generally power strips with either MOV’s or other form of spike shunting device and some have small filter capacitors and/or actual filter circuits in them to reduce high frequency line noise from one device in one AC plug to an adjacent one, a form of conducted small signal isolation. Older products as well as new ones can and do issue forth a small impressed AC “signal” out of their power supplies and this noise can possibly interfere with other devices on the same branch circuit and this filtering can help if you find yourself with this problem. It can also keep outside conducted sources of RF from gaining entrance to what is plugged into the device as well.

UPS: Big topic. The best UPS simply put are the continuously on line type. They are NOT standby things most folks buy. The get their AC from the line and use it only charge their internal batteries. The batteries continuously run an internal inverter which is what powers your stuff. It has no switch over time and therefore can not drop off line any equipment until the batteries are exhausted. Very few people make these any more due to cost and market demands. They are usually over built to protect their expensive internals and come with both heavy surge and minor surge circuits, RF filtering and auto-transformer for cut and boost, and test loading and other really nice things, but again, the last ones I owned were made by Viteq, a 3KW and a Viteq 5KW unit and they weighed several hundred pounds… BUT, the charging circuits ran full bore and was hard on the electric bill. And, wore out batteries rather ruthlessly, but I never lost a piece of gear due to external EMP or power source issues in over 15 years. I now use commercial APC 3KW units for cost reasons although they are standby type – no losses yet. I buy larger power supplies than I need so I have some built in switch over time before they run down and that does indeed help the 4 ms switch times. These are also heavily protected surge wise and filtered as well. I do recommend them.

Lastly, and this is where personal preferences come into play. I have always thought it better to make a decent surge strip the sacrificial lamb so to speak, in that I would rather throw away a strip than repair a $2000 UPS any day. Meaning, a surge strip is always in front of the UPS gear that I own. Not after, though I do use unprotected power strips after for distribution.

Last but not least, sags, over-voltages and spikes and their induced failures. Sags can be handled by a good UPS or and auto-transformer quite well. (This does NOT apply to large motors, compressors, any large inductors or any kind as their current requirements are way above UPS available outputs.) During an extended sag, MORE current will flow and more heat will be generated in the wire and can melt the formvar (lacquer) insulation materials in windings, overheat bearings and their races, etc. Killers. Most electronics today will run fine on sags as long as the motors are frequency driven and the power supply has a wide input range that supplies less than line voltage as long as the voltage regulator does not drop below its drop out voltage to the motor such as turntable motors. However, hard disc drives will run hotter if their required 12V spindle voltage is under 11.5 and this shortens their life expectancy. Drop-outs are your main area of concern for hard disc drives as when power is interrupted for a certain time, the drive shuts down and unlike most devices that have lock outs on loss of power and keeps your AC compressor from kicking back on in the next second or two to keep from encountering a very high start up head pressure and shortening it life, hard drives attempt to spin up and this is hard on the very tiny motors they use. This brief loss of power is the prime hard disc drive killer. A UPS will save your hard disc drives!

Spikes and surges. Spikes coming from your power supply into your PC are rare from well designed units. However, it can and does happen. Yes there are MOV’s inside them, and yes, they can already be blown and you not be aware. The supplies themselves produce spikes – put a scope on their output lines and you will see them as during transitions in loading – actions like starting a recording on a DVD draws a spike of current for the laser, etc. Usually contained but can actually put 50 volt spikes out. The duration and rise time of the spike are what can cause films to break down, and semi conductors to arc over. It does happen, I have opened a many chip and resistor and other parts to confirm this, but it is rare.

Any and all lines in and out can be intercepted by inductive spikes than could harm the low voltage parts – start up a heavy duty vacuum cleaner on your PC branch circuit and watch the spike on a scope inside your PC! Everything should be protected by whatever means you deem critical. I have never lost a machine (out of several thousand over the years to power problems). But I have fixed a boat load of cheap peoples boxes and they learned from it.

If you see your light bulbs dimming, you had a very rapid drop out or an even longer voltage sag. None of these symptoms are good ones and it could be your house wiring arcing, your wife starting a heavy load such as a dishwasher or your power company is not supplying enough juice or a rapid short relay trip out. A good UPS, and I don’t mean the $75 – $150 unit either.

Certainty comes at a cost. You are the only one to determine your level needed. Best thing you can do? Get a book and learn about these subjects – do not listen to the crap that this forum seems to sponsor some of the time

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Wow! Thanks for all you have shared Mpioso.

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If you’re looking for “what should I do to keep my network as safe and as fast as possible“, here’s a relatively simple and not-hard-to-understand approach. It’s what I do with my not-so-great ISP and living in a place where we get A LOT of lightning.

First, the DSL modem (or whatever piece of equipment connects directly to the ISP’s wires): it should be connected directly to the ISP’s cable, no SP. This will avoid affecting your Internet speed. As mentioned before, there should be adequate surge protection on that line provided by the ISP. On the other hand, every other cable coming out of this box should have surge protection on it. That means either give it its own UPS, or use something like an IsoBar SP that provides protection between devices plugged into it. Also, use a SP on the Ethernet line coming out of it. I have used one from APC (marketed for corporate use) to good effect. As mentioned earlier, it must be properly grounded. Yes, this will definitely affect the network speed for this link, but the Ethernet speed is many times your Internet speed (unless you have Google Internet in Kansas City or Austin). So slowing down this network link will not affect your Internet speed. The Ethernet line from this device should go to your home/office router.

If your setup is like mine, your ISP-supplied device also has a wireless router and an Ethernet switch built into it. Do not use these, or you lose much of the protection we’re talking about here. Besides, you will probably be much happier with your own wireless router. (For example, my ISP’s router does not let me set OpenDNS as the default for DHCP;it’s also low-power and low-speed.) So, disable the built-in wireless, and use your own router (which is now electrically separated from the ISP in a way that gives you full-speed everywhere). Assuming the Ethernet wires don’t leave the building, you will not need any other Ethernet surge protectors. Just be very sure that every device plugged into the network uses a surge protector, at least.

I hope that helps, and is understandable.

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Many, many thank you’s guys for your input, information, and instruction.

Westom— I think you are just trying to make sport of me. Please do not, in a sense, put words in my mouth. By the time I got around to that car analogy, I had previously already conceded the issue on lightning, and that moreover, that was one of the least of my immediate concerns. I was talking about other sources of harmful spikes/surges. I’m glad one of us made it through elementary school anyway. Then you should know why aircraft can fly through lightning storms relatively unscathed. Whatever the reason, your esoteric knowledge of such matters is beyond my ability to comprehend.

If you’re looking for “what should I do to keep my network as safe and as fast as possible“, here’s a relatively simple and not-hard-to-understand approach. It’s what I do with my not-so-great ISP and living in a place where we get A LOT of lightning.

First, the DSL modem (or whatever piece of equipment connects directly to the ISP’s wires): it should be connected directly to the ISP’s cable, no SP. This will avoid affecting your Internet speed. As mentioned before, there should be adequate surge protection on that line provided by the ISP. On the other hand, every other cable coming out of this box should have surge protection on it. That means either give it its own UPS, or use something like an IsoBar SP that provides protection between devices plugged into it. Also, use a SP on the Ethernet line coming out of it. I have used one from APC (marketed for corporate use) to good effect. As mentioned earlier, it must be properly grounded. Yes, this will definitely affect the network speed for this link, but the Ethernet speed is many times your Internet speed (unless you have Google Internet in Kansas City or Austin). So slowing down this network link will not affect your Internet speed. The Ethernet line from this device should go to your home/office router.

If your setup is like mine, your ISP-supplied device also has a wireless router and an Ethernet switch built into it. Do not use these, or you lose much of the protection we’re talking about here. Besides, you will probably be much happier with your own wireless router. (For example, my ISP’s router does not let me set OpenDNS as the default for DHCP;it’s also low-power and low-speed.) So, disable the built-in wireless, and use your own router (which is now electrically separated from the ISP in a way that gives you full-speed everywhere). Assuming the Ethernet wires don’t leave the building, you will not need any other Ethernet surge protectors. Just be very sure that every device plugged into the network uses a surge protector, at least.

I hope that helps, and is understandable.

I am so glad you came along, Jeff! Yes, you are most understandable and helpful. Fascinating concept about incoming/outgoing placement of the data lines. Maybe that’s where the folks whose testimonies I have read went wrong, putting the cart before the horse so to speak. I also thank you for the tip on the router. Coincidentally, not too long ago my AT&T modem/wired router gave up the ghost. The one they sent me as a replacement is just a modem, no router (so I have to manually change out when needed). With this replacement, I get disconnected all the time and my speeds have dropped, and other frustrating quirks. I was planning on resolving the matter again here soon, so it’s good to know that I try to find a new modem and router solution. Seems like TP Link has a few routers that enjoy favorable reviews.

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I think you are just trying to make sport of me. Please do not, in a sense, put words in my mouth. By the time I got around to that car analogy, I had previously already conceded the issue on lightning, and that moreover, that was one of the least of my immediate concerns. I was talking about other sources of harmful spikes/surges.

And those spikes are only averted by earthing a protector. Other sources such as a refrigerator power cycling is only noise. Due to protection inside all appliances. But advertising hare reinvented irrrelevant spikes into a major threat. The only major threat is from lightning, squirrels on the power equipment, stray cars, etc.

An AT&T forum describes what is necessary for DSL protection. It applies to all household appliances. And contradicts what many have been told only by advertising.

Surge protection for DSL and dialup service.
Surge protection takes on many forms, but always involves the following components: Grounding bonding and surge protectors. …

Grounding is required to provide the surge protector with a path to dump the excess energy to earth. A proper ground system is a mandatory requirement of surge protection. Without a proper ground, a surge protector has no way to disburse the excess energy and will fail to protect downstream equipment. Bonding is required to electrically connect together the various grounds of the services entering the premises. Without bonding, a surge may still enter a premise after firing over a surge protector, which will attempt to pass the excess energy to its ground with any additional energy that the services surge protector ground cannot instantly handle, traveling into and through protected equipment, damaging that equipment in the process. …

Now, if all the various service entrance grounds are bonded together there are no additional paths to ground through the premise. Even if all of the grounds cannot instantly absorb the energy, the lack of additional paths to ground through the premise prevents the excess energy from seeking out any additional grounds through that premise and the electronic equipment within. As such, the excess energy remains in the ground system until dissipated, sparing the protected equipment from damage. …
By far, the whole house hardwired surge protectors provide the best protection. When a whole house primary surge protector is installed at the service entrance, it will provide a solid first line of defense against surges which enter from the power company’s service entrance feed. These types of protectors can absorb/pass considerably more energy than any other type of protector, and if one does catastrophically fail, it will not typically be in a living space. …

Plug in strip protectors are, at best, a compromise. At worst, they may cause more damage than they prevent. While they may do an acceptable job of handling hot to neutral surges, they do a poor job of handling any surge that must be passed to ground. …

Then, to add insult to injury, some strip protectors add Telco and/or LAN surge protection within the same device, trying to be an all-in-one sale. Remember bonding? When Telco or LAN protection is added to a strip protector, if the premise ground, which is not designed to handle surges, cannot handle all of the energy, guess where that excess energy seeks out the additional grounds? You got it! The Telco and LAN connections now becomes the path, with disastrous results to those devices. …

I am not making sport of you. As I say repeatedly, remembering concepts taught in elementary school science is difficult due to how advertising (and its resulting myths) are so universally believed. The most difficult part about surge protection is unlearning what advertising has taught.

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Westom, okay, I can follow the logic of that quote from the AT&T forum. I appreciate that anything (including an SP) that gets plugged into a wall outlet is going to shared ground. I am reminded of that aircraft that can fly through lightning because since it is not grounded, the energy just passes through it. To me, that is analogous to not having one’s computer plugged into the wall outlet. We want out computers up and running though. I just don’t see any other way out of the situation. SP’s may be at best a compromising attempt to help regulate that voltage over a shared ground, but to do without one, what else can one effectively do? Call it voodoo if you wish, but I know from observation, heresy, and personal experience that they do have some value in protecting equipment in just ordinary day to day use. Insofar as I know to this moment, it is sheer electronic russian roulette to do without an SP. Show me a concrete way to effectively dispose of such need, and I’ll be all ears.

There is one item that does however mystify me in that AT&T quote– that last paragraph with the point about the data lines. If a modem is plugged into that shared ground scenario, then whatever is going on voltage wise within that unit is likely going to find that backdoor shard ground through the data lines. Ooops, say goodbye to your NIC. All this at least is the way it seems to me at this point in time.

*** Edit note: Oh, I do appreciate your point about manufacturers’ “manufactured” market so to speak. Scandals everywhere. Many people would probably give up their microwave ovens, if they really knew about the risks of those to one’s health. But economics rules. That’s the golden rule– “Who has the gold, makes the rules.”

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I appreciate that anything (including an SP) that gets plugged into a wall outlet is going to shared ground.

Again, the wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground. Is not a shared (or single point) earth ground. A computer connected to a wall receptacle clearly is not earthed. It is safety grounded.

A relevant term was low impedance. And then a number defined low impedance: ‘less than 10 feet’. That wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground for a long list of electrical reasons. Many not discussed because I am keeping this at a layman’s level. The fact that the computer has a six foot power cord and more wire inside walls says why a computer is not earthed.

Again, two completely different devices are called an SP. But only the earthed version protects from anything that is typically destructive. A list of manufacturer who provide the proven solution were listed previously. One even sells in Lowes and Home Depot. The electric company’s girl who reads the meter might install one behind the electric meter. But in every case, the SP that does protection always has that short (ie ‘less than 10 foot’) connection to single point earth ground (not safety ground).

Again. No protector does protection. Almost all your questions should be about what does protection. Single point earth ground. Protectors are simple dumb science. The ‘art’ is earthing. Protection is not defined by any protector. Protection is defined not by any earth ground. It is defined by “single point earth ground”. A protector either connects low impedance to what does protection. Or it only does what is already accomplished inside every appliance.

Remember this from the AT&T recommendation:

> Plug in strip protectors are, at best, a compromise. At worst, they may cause more damage than they prevent.

An adjacent protector can give a surge even more paths to earth destructively via an adjacent appliance. If a surge current (not voltage – current) is incoming from AC mains, then the same current must be outgoing via some nearby appliance. That other ‘at risk’ appliance could be any on the same branch circuit; not necessarily the appliance connected to the protector.

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Sorry brother Westom, you have lost any and all sense of credulity with me.

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Sorry brother Westom, you have lost any and all sense of credulity with me.

Why? What part does not make sense?

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Westom, for one thing you stand in direct contradiction with IEEE and NIST–whose guidelines seem to be part of that “simple dumb science” to which you refer. These are not the manufacturers like Belkin, APC, Monster, etc., but actual think tank scientists. Anyway, enough arguing, please. Let’s leave it at an impasse. Perhaps this situation can be likened to Plato vs. Aristotle. Plato would have one believe that the only perfect or true triangle does not, cannot exist in the manifested realm, but rather only in the unmanifested conceptial realm of forms. Whereas Aristotle would argue that only in a manifested realm can there be a real, true or perfect triangle. Where your single point earth ground theory may seem to be the ideal solution, I don’t see how it can be practically demonstrated in any practical manifested realm. Were it so, you should have been able to provide a step-by-step process of how to apply single point earth ground to one’s computer. Where you can conceive it, you cannot apply nor implement it when a computer is plugged into a shared ground wall outlet. Thus, to me, your argument lacks reality– the successful connection of the subjective to the truth.

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@Gerard3: it would be better – and probably most useful for the rest of us – if you work with westom on what you find to be contradictory, what part does not make sense/what do you find to be contradictory?

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@Gerard3: it would be better – and probably most useful for the rest of us – if you work with westom on what you find to be contradictory, what part does not make sense/what do you find to be contradictory?

Satrow, my interaction with Westom is torture to me because we are caught in a do-loop impasse. Neither one of us is doing a good job of persuading the other. But if you think that anything I rehash could be of clarification to others, here is that major contradiction:

Westom says:
“Again. No protector does protection. Almost all your questions should be about what does protection. Single point earth ground. Protectors are simple dumb science. The ‘art’ is earthing. Protection is not defined by any protector. Protection is defined not by any earth ground. It is defined by “single point earth ground”. A protector either connects low impedance to what does protection. Or it only does what is already accomplished inside every appliance.”

No protector does protection? Really??? That’s not what the IEEE and NIST find to be true.
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf

http://pml.nist.gov/spd-anthology/files/Divert_surges.pdf

I’m really not the one qualified to be arguing this kind of stuff. Rather, I’m the one who is full of questions. And my questions about single point earth ground have not been answered in a practical, non-theoretical way. How does one reconcile single point earth ground vs. shared ground? And I mean so much more than lightning threats. (We all have to get power to our computer systems, which means plugging them in to a wall outlet that already necessitates a shared ground… Therefore, no practical realization of single point earth ground seems feasible. Can anyone see the logic of my reasoning?).

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Thanks Bbearren… You provide some most interesting information. I particularly like what you say about phone line grounding, and your testimony about how you have never met with disaster in your prone area through data lines. But I do wonder how/why it is that a person can still get electrocuted by answering a phone during a storm.

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A couple of observations. The primary function of lighting rods is not to shunt the lightning strike to ground; it’s to prevent a strike from occurring in the first place by dissipating the charge to ground before the strike occurs. Shunting a lightning strike to ground is the secondary function of a lightning rod system. This youtube video doesn’t have any numbers, just a simple demonstration using a Van de Graff generator. Here is another video with a few numbers.

Municipal power grids (the power lines that distribute electricity throughout a city) don’t employ the high ground wire above the conductors as used in the 765 KV power lines. Instead, they use multiple lightning arrestors scattered along the grid. These are heavy-duty shunts, rated at 25,000 volts, that are connected to the conductor at one end and at the other end connected to the solid ground wire that runs down the pole all the way to the bottom end that’s buried in the ground. The typical municipal distribution voltage is 7,200, which is stepped down to 120 volts (in two conductors, out of phase, which allows for 240 volts) by transformers that typically serve two to four individual homes. The transformer that serves my house and my neighbors’ is in the corner where our four lots meet.

The connection between the 7,200 volt transmission line and the transformer is paralleled through a lightning arrestor. That is, the solid copper wire (#4 in size) that runs from the transmission line to the primary side of the transformer is also connected to the top of the lightning arrestor. The bottom of the lightning arrestor is connected directly to the pole’s ground wire, also #4 in size. In areas where there may be significant distance between transformers, lightning arrestors are mounted directly to the pole and connected to the conductor and the pole’s ground wire.

The result is that a lightning strike to the transmission line will always be between two lightning arrestors. Depending on the strength of the lightning bolt, it may be shunted to ground by the nearest lightning arrestor, or it may be strong enough to reach the second lightning arrestor as well. But an even stronger lightning bolt will continue to meet lightning arrestors along the transmission line until its strength has been bled off to less than 25,000 volts. This means that the surges that actually come into a home through the power lines are less than 25,000 volts, and of extremely short duration – micro seconds.

Most surge protectors are rated at 25,000 volts. It’s not a coincidence. In my area, the telephone service entrance into a home or business is in close enough proximity to the electrical power service entrance to use the existing ground rod(s), and if that’s impractical, a separate ground rod is installed. The service entrance box also contains arrestors that shunt excess voltage directly to the ground. As phone service voltage is very low, the shunts also have a very low threshold.

I have surge protectors on all my electronics (PC’s, TV’s, Satellite boxes, BluRay players, etc.). My surge protectors have the capability to plug in phone line and cable, but I don’t use that part; just the power plug. I live in the lightning capital of the country, and we occasionally lose power (tree limbs downed by a thunderstorm, etc.). The city power grid gets hit from time to time as well (the lights get brighter or go dimmer), but I’ve never lost any electronic gear due to power fluctuations.

So I can’t answer the OP of whether surge protectors slow down internet speeds, but I can say that I personally see no need to use a surge protector on a phone line or Ethernet cable in the first place. In my view the protection that has already been put in place by the telephone company is more than adequate.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Proximity and circumstance. All bets are off when it comes to lightning because it only conforms to the most basic rules. I and a friend who lives 8 miles distant (who knows how many more) have had the DSL modem, router and Ethernet card fried by a lightning strike nearby in the last 10 years or so. Cost of doing business so to speak, and we don’t live anywhere near the lightning capital! If it were a regular event we’d take some precautions.

As to circumstance, you may have heard of the girl that was swimming in a pool when a power line broke and hit the pavement out in the parking lot. Others got out of the pool but she grabbed the metal ladder…probably where the electricity was entering the pool.

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Proximity and circumstance. All bets are off when it comes to lightning because it only conforms to the most basic rules. I and a friend who lives 8 miles distant (who knows how many more) have had the DSL modem, router and Ethernet card fried by a lightning strike nearby in the last 10 years or so. Cost of doing business so to speak, and we don’t live anywhere near the lightning capital! If it were a regular event we’d take some precautions.

As to circumstance, you may have heard of the girl that was swimming in a pool when a power line broke and hit the pavement out in the parking lot. Others got out of the pool but she grabbed the metal ladder…probably where the electricity was entering the pool.

FD— I get what you mean about all bets being off when it comes to lightning strikes, and how they behave. And I guess to some extent, the same can even apply to downed power lines. That is a horrific and tragic story about that poor girl.

Bbearren— Oh, okay… I happen to be one of those old fossils who lives in an old home with old wiring and old land lines. I don’t even have a cell/smart phone (honest, believe it or not). But my real point about the data lines is that any unwanted surge from any source can find a back door through data lines and greet one’s phone, answering machine, NIC in a rather undesirable way. …At least, that’s what some would have one believe. I can say that in my own experience, I had several answering machines that were simply plugged into a wall outlet, and now I have a big box full of dead answering machines. Since I plugged my most recent into a surge protector, I’ve enjoyed previously unheard of longevity.

**************
My goodness, one might think that with over 10,000 views and 85 responses, someone might somehow come up with a newsletter.

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I know of two instances of lightning strikes through a telephone. Neither resulted in electrocution, and only one person actually got a jolt. In one case several years ago, a wall-mounted phone in a kitchen was knocked off the wall, no one was using the phone at the time, but the lady of the house was in the kitchen and got quite a scare. That was investigated by the phone company, and the installation was over 20 years old, grounded under outdated rules, and the phone lines were still overhead in those days. The phone company did a complete upgrade.

Nearly all phone lines are underground now. My phone line is underground from the CTO all the way to the wall of my house. There are connection risers (3 to 4 feet tall) at intervals along the way, but that’s the only thing above ground, and those are also well grounded.

The second case was similar; the phone installation wasn’t as old but the house wiring was very old indeed. In the era when the house was built, grounding to a water pipe was sufficient. The conjecture regarding that strike was that the phone line running under the house was in contact with the water pipes in a couple of places. A lady talking on the phone got a jolt and quite a scare, but no ill effects. As I recall, the family did some upgrading of the house wiring, and the phone company upgraded as well. Both of these instances made the local papers.

In this day, there aren’t many twisted pair telephones in use. The majority are cordless phones, plus more and more people are opting for cell phones exclusively, and abandoning the landline phone all together. I would say that anyone getting a jolt from a phone in a storm these days is living in an older house with the original phone installation still intact.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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That was investigated by the phone company, and the installation was over 20 years old, grounded under outdated rules, and the phone lines were still overhead in those days.

Actually it does not matter if phone lines are overhead or underground. Back then the installation probably used the ‘carbons’. And the earth ground wire exceeded the now all so important ‘less than 10 foot’ connection. Since then, the protector rules have changed requiring better earthing. The semiconductor based protector is often in a box such as this:
http://bourns.com/data/global/pdfs/bourns_osp_product_guide.pdf

Of course that manufacturer constantly mentions one important feature of each protector:

the GDT activates to handle the bulk of the energy by directing it safely to ground, away from personnel and equipment.

That is what effective protectors do.

Moving on to his two citations.
http://pml.nist.gov/spd-anthology/files/Divert_surges.pdf
Since he has confused safety ground with earth ground, then he does not realize that Martzloff is saying exactly what I have posted. A protector too close to appliances and too far from earth ground will create destructive transients on or between equipment. Martzloff defines potential damage because a protector is on a branch circuit, is not earthed, and is close to appliances. Martzloff then says

Two possible methods can overcome the problem. The first is to avoid the problem altogether by not allowing large surges to enter the building. This desireable situation can be obtained by providing a suitable surge arrester at the service entrance

What did Martzloff say? Avoid damage, created by adjacent protectors, by earthing a ‘whole house’ protector. I have been saying same. Martzloff then cites Standler who defines proper earthing. Not safety ground. Earth ground with a low impedance connection.

Martzloff then says why adjacent protectors can cause damage:

2. … the return path for the surge current will produce differences of potential among the conductive part at the end of the branch circuit. differences that can be damaging to certain components of protected equipment.

In short, an adjacent and unearthed protector can even damage adjacent appliances. Martzloff then says how to avoid that damage.

3 A more effective protection scheme is to divert the surges as the service entrance rather than allowing them to flow in the branch circuits.

Absolutely correct. Once that surge is permitted inside, then it will hunt for earth destructively via appliances. A protector does not do that protection. The connection (by a protector or wire) to what does that protection: earth.

Martzloff goes even farther in another paper three years later. He describes damage created because a plug-in (point of connection) protector is used:

Conclusion:
1) Quantitative measurements in the Upside-Down house clearly show objectionable difference in reference voltages. These occur even when or perhaps because, surge protective devices are present at the point of connection of appliances.

The other citation demonstrates damage because a protector does not have the earth ground:
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf
Page 42 Figure 8 demonstrates a protector, without a low impedance earth ground connection, earthing a surge destructively through any nearby appliance. In this case, 8000 volts destructively through TV2. Same damage that Martzloff described in the above quote that says, ” 2. … the return path for the surge current will produce differences of potential …”

That brochure says exactly what service entrance (‘whole house’) protectors do.

AC and signal surge protectors at the building entrance serve similar purposes. They collect the major part of the lightning surge currents coming in on external wiring, and direct them harmlessly into the building ground.

The building ground is also called a single point earth ground. This same earthing was demonstrated by good, bad, and ugly (preferred, wrong, and right) solutions in:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp

Why Gerard3’s impasse? Both his citations repeat what I have been saying repeatedly. Both citations demonstrate damage because a protector is not earthed to what actually does protection. What harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules? Earth ground.

NIST then says why single point earth ground is so important:

An effective, low-impedance ground path is critical for the successful operation of an SPD. High surge currents impinging on a power distribution system having a relatively high grounding resistance can create enormous ground potential rises, resulting in damage. Therefore, an evaluation of the service entrance grounding system at the time of the SPD installation is very important

In short, a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Notice a key expression also posted repeatedly: low impedance.

Discussion of this continues on a later page:

For the most common source of lightning damage shown in Figure 2, with a good surge protector installed at the building entrance, indeed, major lightning currents are stopped at the service entrance.

Gerard3’s citations confirm what I have been saying. Why the impasss when his own sources confirm what is necessary for protection. A ‘whole house’ protector must connect ‘low impedance’ to what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules: single point earth ground. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

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Westom, I’ll say one thing– I admire your tenacity, persistence, and perseverance. But I look at this as a show and tell– I get the tell, but I’m still missing the show. I need to make it through elementary school yet. I’m cooked, I’m baked, I’m done. Take me out of the oven.

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I’m cooked, I’m baked, I’m done. Take me out of the oven.

Generally ovens do not need protection since they run on gas.

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Generally ovens do not need protection since they run on gas.

In New Jersey, maybe, but not necessarily in central Florida.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Regarding the surge protection issue, the first segment of this “Ask This Old House” episode might be helpful:

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/tv/ask-toh/video/0,,20681062,00.html

The manufacturer of the whole house surge protector: http://www.sycomsurge.com

Specification sheet: http://74.53.140.226/~sycomsur/images/products/SYC-T2%20Series.pdf

Sources to buy it:

http://www.olddominionelectricalsupply.com/hardware-surge-protector-syc-120-240-t2/

http://losscontrolspecialists.com/surge-lightning-protection/sycom-single-phase-panel-38/sycom-120-240t2-electrical-panel-protector.html

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Regarding the surge protection issue, the first segment of this “Ask This Old House” episode might be helpful:

The video does a great job of putting it in layman’s terms.

My personal preference for a whole house surge protector is to piggyback onto the line-in connectors rather than going through a circuit breaker. Of course, this requires pulling the meter to kill the power, but I would rather bypass any circuit breaker for a direct path to the surge protector.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Chapter 5 beginning on page 35 spells it out fairly well. If your house is correctly wired with two-conductor-with-ground wiring (insulated power, insulated neutral, bare ground) and three-prong outlets, the electrical service entrance has a low impedance ground (in my area it must be less than 4 OHM), and you use surge protectors that meet the proper UL standard, you’re good, unless you get a direct strike or near-miss. You’ll need to add a lightning rod system the house to alleviate that possibility.

The surge protector shunts the surge to the ground wire. In a correctly wired house the bare ground wire carries no load (other than faults/surges), and all ground wires are bonded (connected) to the service entrance ground of very low impedance.

However, I still can’t answer the original question of whether a surge protector slows internet speeds, because I don’t use a surge protector on my DSL line. My DSL line is split in the NIM, by the way, so I don’t need any filters on my other phone lines inside.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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However, I still can’t answer the original question of whether a surge protector slows internet speeds, because I don’t use a surge protector on my DSL line.

Your DSL line already has a ‘whole house’ protector designed to not diminish DSL signals. As required by FCC, NEC and other standards.

How good is that protector? How many feet is its connection the single point earth ground? To an electrode used by AC electric. If more than 10 feet, then consider having that earthing upgraded. Because a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Which means the DSL protector’s ground connection should be less than 10 feet.

Protectors with a much longer ground wire are for transients that typically cause no damage. Protection from destructive transients means that ground wire must have no sharp bends and must be separated from non-grounding wires. So that interior DSL wires have no surge currents. These protectors provide protection from all types of surges without diminishing signal strength; without slowing internet connections.

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Your DSL line already has a ‘whole house’ protector designed to not diminish DSL signals. As required by FCC, NEC and other standards.

Yes, the phone company uses a surge protector. I don’t use an additional surge protector. But I also can’t “unplug” the surge protector in the NIM to make any comparison – hence I can’t answer the question.

FYI, in my area the electrical service entrance ground rod must be directly below the meter box (with less than 4 OHM resistance), the ground wire must be #4 solid copper no more than 6 feet in length with no bends (mine is right at 4 feet). The telephone NIM (mounted beside the electrical service entrance) ground wire is attached to the #4 ground wire using a parallel connector, as is the coax ground from the satellite dish.

As mentioned in an earlier post, the transformer feeding my service drop is paralleled with a 25KV lightning arrestor grounded to #4 copper that extends to the bottom of the pole (and terminates in a 1″ spiral to the center of the pole, by the way). And by 25KV, I mean that is the threshold at which surges are shunted to ground. The protection rating is many times that.

And as mentioned in post #92, I’m referencing a correctly wired house.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Did you ever have the bottom element get a tiny rust hole in it from food overruns over the years and start on fire? What the heck is in those things? I witnesses such an event just a couple months ago and it was a white sizzling, popping flame that burned the element to ash like a fuse all the way back to the oven wall and produced voluminous white acrid smoke. It was pretty concerning as it was happening but winked out when it hit the crimped bit just in front of the oven wall.

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I add this for kicks:
People in a properly designed airplane are protected, even though lightning directly strikes the plane.
The plane has no true ground, no #1 gauge copper wire to Earth (surely will exceed 10ft).

Lightning rise time is in nanoseconds (I’m not talking about the time length of lightning). An ideal step function (zero rise time) is composed of infinite sine waves. (Don’t branch off to mentioning impulse and impulse response! It’ll be even more off topic!) Because of that, aka high frequency, impedance is the thing to consider.
A length of wire has impedance in relation to frequency. The same wire has ever higher impedance at ever higher frequency. And higher frequency has more energy. Lightening, by virtue of its fast rise time, nearly an ideal step function (actually, closer to impulse), has tons of very high frequency components, and very high energy too.

And because of high frequency, too long a wire actually presents intolerable impedance for the high frequency currents. Hence the length of wire is important. Too long, one end of the wire ‘floats’ off true earth ground which is at the other end of the wire. You might as well consider the wire as a resistor. Say, it is 1 Ohm, at 600A, the other end of the wire is 600V above true earth ground (0V).

In the case of ‘floating airplane’, the metal body bypasses/carries the lightning current (the shortest electrical path), so the people inside the plane are not harmed.

In electrical engineering terms, it is common mode voltage.

Birds standing on high tension wire is not electrocuted because the voltage is floating (common mode voltage). The bird’s body is high voltage everywhere. Voltage potential from one body cell to another is zero voltage difference. No current flow, no harm.
However, if two big (BIG) birds kiss each other, delta voltage between two high tension wires will fry the two birds, by virtual of current flow. Or if that single bird pees! (The moral: never wet your pants when you touch high voltage wire!)

Not all protections require true earth ground. Else, we cannot fly, we cannot jump, we cannot walk.
Semiconductor chips are internally protected via common mode scheme. The scheme is to make everywhere having relatively same potential. No potential difference: no current. If your battery is zero Volt, no current from the battery. It does not matter if you and the battery are sitting on 2kV. The 2kV is the common mode voltage.

Needless to say, too high energy, protection is helpless. Imagine protect against standing 1 meter from the hot sun.

If we can absorb lightning strike (present method is to avoid it, ‘trick’ it away), it means we can store the huge energy and transform it to usable form for ‘slow’ release (rather than one strike!). If we can, we have no energy shortage.
——————————————–
Here is a trick question (but practical one):
We know electrical current seeks shortest path.
(Don’t do it!) Put two fingers across 200Vac terminals (or 200Vdc if that matters).
In theory, all current passes through the 2 fingers. You are safe! No current to heart and brain … won’t be electrocuted! Maybe painful fingers, but not electrocuted. (Again, don’t do it!)

In practice, your are dead!
Theory is wrong?

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I add this for kicks:
People in a properly designed airplane are protected, even though lightning directly strikes the plane.
The plane has no true ground, no #1 gauge copper wire to Earth

Ground still exists. Damage averted because (just like when using a ‘whole house’ protector) no current flows inside the cabin or inside electronic boxes. Protection always means the incomng and outgoing path stays outside of protected people and electronics:
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/plane_japan.php

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There is some really interesting reading here, Friends, thank you!

Oh my goodness…, I stumbled across an article that seems to backup Westom to some extent:

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/10431
“Plug in strip protectors are, at best, a compromise. At worst, they may cause more damage than they prevent. While they may do an acceptable job of handling hot to neutral surges, they do a poor job of handling any surge that must be passed to ground. The reason for this is that they rely on the premise wiring for a connection to ground. The premise wiring ground was designed for electrical safety, not to carry surges to earth. If the premise wiring is in steel conduit, that conduit will, in most cases, be the ground. It may be run from outlet to outlet passing through various metal boxes before connecting to the building ground system. If the wiring is non-metallic sheathed cable or Romex, the copper ground wire in the Romex may pass through various boxes where it can be tightly bent and, like conduit, it does not take a direct or straight path to the building’s ground system. All of which make it a poor choice for surge protection. Furthermore, there is no simple way to determine if the premise wiring ground is capable of passing a considerable surge. A ground OK indicator on a surge strip merely indicates the ability to pass enough energy to ground to light the lamp, not that the ground will pass any considerable amount of energy when needed.

An additional problem with strip protectors is that they are normally located at the equipment to be protected, leaving little time for the surge protector to fire over and pass off excess energy before that same energy is present at the equipment being protected. ”

Also of interest, for example, is this little blurb about LAN protection:

“Then, to add insult to injury, some strip protectors add Telco and/or LAN surge protection within the same device, trying to be an all-in-one sale. Remember bonding? When Telco or LAN protection is added to a strip protector, if the premise ground, which is not designed to handle surges, cannot handle all of the energy, guess where that excess energy seeks out the additional grounds? You got it! The Telco and LAN connections now becomes the path, with disastrous results to those devices.”
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/10431

Moreover, I am becoming more and more convinced that electrcity/electronics is just plain enigmatic. I also stumbled across a source that reported that SP’s usually present no issue to folks, yet for many others, they do. Of particular interest, some may experience PPP problems (hence dropping internet connections periodically) when plugged into an SP.– That is precisely my problem right now with this fairly new replacement modem! I’m going to pull that DSL line out of there and see what kind of difference, if any, I experience. Man, talk about trying to separate the wheat from the chaff, the sheep from the goats!

Everyone is right. No one is wrong… Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

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Moreover, I am becoming more and more convinced that electrcity/electronics is just plain enigmatic.

A long wire antenna is connected to a 200 watt transmitter. Touch one part of that wire to feel no voltage. Touch another part to be shocked by over 100 volts. Why two completely different voltages on the same wire?

Popular urban myths claim electricity is same on both ends of a wire. What makes it enigmatic is something that is difficult. One must first unlearn hearsay and wild speculation often created by advertising and marketing departments. Electricity is different on both ends of a wire. Another reason why effective protectors must connect so short (ie ‘less than 10 feet’) to earth ground.

Numbers define protectors that are effective. These superior devices (sharing a same name with ineffective devices) have a low impedance connection to earth. Low impedance defined by basic engineering concepts such as ‘less than 10 feet’, no sharp wire bends, and not inside metallic conduit. Critically important facts that also identify ineffective protectors on a wall receptacle. It numbers will also say why it does not slow internet connections.

A protector (hundreds of joules) without that earthing connection does what with hundreds of thousands of joules? It fails. Sometimes so catastrophically as to cause fire. Again numbers. Where do hundreds of thousand of joules dissipate?

A repeated point. Hearsay and wild speculation was provided without numbers. People, not educated by myths, find this easier to grasp. Others suffer difficulty. They must first unlearn popular urban myths. That is often hard.

Why two completely different voltages on a same wire? Because electricity is never same at two ends of the same wire. So effective protectors must have that low impedance (short as possible) connection to single point earth ground. A shorter connection means even better protection.

Electricity is enigmatic when advertising myths and hearsay must be unlearned. Unlearning fables and folklore is never easy. Electricity is not capricious. But many lie (intentionally create confusion) by making only subjective claims. Subjective claims are, too often, lies.

BTW I have touched 250 volts with many fingers many times. That is the plate voltage for tubes. No problem. Well, it does hurt. And yes, I have been doing this stuff that long. Know which theories are actually based in science – not advertising. And why two completely different voltages can even exist simultaneously on the same wire.

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I open up a Philips, one-output-outlet, on-wall-outlet, protector. Nicely designed. MOVs are shrouded in fire-proof cloth. It also has a relay. It opens when one of MOVs burns out. It forces you to replace the protector, even if you ignore one LED is off (indicates that one MOV is out of service).

No one wants to protect a direct hit from lightning inside a house. Any attempt is poor engineering. The mega Watts is just too much to handle. Most in-the-house protections are for the vastly smaller leak-through transient energy, or in-house created transients.

When MOV is on, it actually shorts the AC outlet temporarily (crowbar). That is, the device supply terminals are shorted. Assume MOV is NOT burned out, the only question is how high the shorted voltage across the terminal. If it is below 400V, damage to the device is low probability (120V AC is 340V peak-to-peak). The neutral or ground wire may float above true earth ground, but it is common mode voltage. It does not matter if the the common mode voltage is 1kV; because everywhere in the device is 1kV. No voltage difference. No current.
Transient is fast rise time and it decays fast. Hence, ‘small’ energy MOV can handle it. But each single hit takes away a little bit of life from MOV.
Does that 1kV common mode voltage matter? In terms of protecting the device, it does not matter. In terms of protecting a person, it DOES matter. If you touch the PC, and it floats to 1kV, your liquid body provides an easy path to earth ground. To you, the 1kV is NOT common mode voltage! However, if you are standing on your PC, now every cell in your body is 1kV. From cell to cell, no voltage difference, no current, no harm. Surely if you wet your pants and water touches the floor, you’re in trouble.

That is how electrical worker does the work on electrical wire on lamp pole. The arm lift and cage is high insulation material, not metal. The worker is at the same voltage potential of the wire. And there is no path to ground. Every cell of the worker has same voltage potential. No current, no harm. Surely if he touches another wire with different potential, it would be serious.

On protecting DSL and cable modems:
Best is NOT to protect them. MOV devices are capacitive. DSL and cable TV are all RF sine waves. MOV capacitance changes the cable impedance characteristics. It may distort sine waves and/or slow down speed.
You really want to fry the modem (!), to absorb as much energy as possible when a big hit comes. First fry the modem, then the router … By the time reaching your beloved device, not much energy left to cause harm.
More economically, fry the on-outlet MOV first, then the MOV on a power strip, then the UPS …

Layered protection scheme does work.

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Best is NOT to protect them. MOV devices are capacitive. DSL and cable TV are all RF sine waves. … First fry the modem, then the router … Layered protection scheme does work.

Electricity does not work as you have assumed. When a current is traveling down from cloud to house, the same current is also traveling from house to distant charges … at the same time. If a surge current is incoming to the DSL modem, then a same current is outgoing from modem to router … at the same time. And from router to some other appliance (ie computer) … at the same time. There is no sacrificial protection. Any protector that fails disconnects as fast as possible leaving the surge connected to the appliance.

If a relay disconnects the MOV, then the surge continues conducting through that relay. All relays have a voltage rating. If voltage across any part of the relay exceeds that number, then electricity continues flowing across that open connection. Voltages during a surge can easily exceed that number.

If a manufacture used relays to disconnect an MOV, then a serious fire threat exists. Relays disconnect too slow. Meaning it disconnects after a house fire has started. If properly designed, something else is doing the disconnecting.

Layering, as recommended by professionals, was never as described. Each layer of protection is defined by its earth ground. A ‘whole house’ protector (and anything else in a house) is only a ‘secondary’ protection layer. That layer is defined by a building’s single point earth ground. A homeowner should also inspect his ‘primary’ surge protection layer. A picture demonstrates what defines that layer and what should be inspected:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

DSL lines routinely have protectors installed. As even required by the FCC, NEC, BellCore, and many other standards. Unfortunately you have assumed MOVs are used. Many power strip protectors do foolishly use MOVs for phone (DSL) lines. And therefore slow internet connections (the original question). But a ‘whole house’ protector installed by each telco for free is earthed. Is therefore a superior device that is also low capacitance. As already discussed, including why it works, here.

If any device is damaged by lightning, then a human mistake made damage possible. Protection from direct strikes even on higher frequency equipment (TV, cell phone) is also routine. Because this stuff was even understood over 100 years ago. And because numerous solutions exist to make a connection to earth.

You have described a protector designed to protect from a transients that typically causes no damage. This has been discussed multiple times previously. An MOV between two AC wires may see no voltage (transverse mode) while a 4000 volt surge it passing through and destroying the adjacent appliance (longitudinal mode).

Your protector, as described, does nothing useful during a type of surge that actually does damage. Can even give that transient more paths to enter and damage an adjacent appliance. Its is only protection from a transient that typically causes no damage. Made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances … including dimmer switches, GFCIs, and mobile phone chargers. The other and completely different device, also called a protector, is made effective by what actually does protection – single point earth ground.

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On protecting DSL and cable modems:
Best is NOT to protect them. MOV devices are capacitive. DSL and cable TV are all RF sine waves. MOV capacitance changes the cable impedance characteristics. It may distort sine waves and/or slow down speed.
You really want to fry the modem (!), to absorb as much energy as possible when a big hit comes. First fry the modem, then the router … By the time reaching your beloved device, not much energy left to cause harm.
More economically, fry the on-outlet MOV first, then the MOV on a power strip, then the UPS …

Layered protection scheme does work.

That actually makes good sense to me. With regard to my PPP problem, I thought I had my DSL line plugged into the PS, but turns out I did not. Anyway, I remain convined, now more than ever, that SP’s at the very least serve as a kind of voltage regulator (remember my automobile analogy). Now that’s something to which I can relate. I think I will forsake plugging my data lines into the SP however.

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This is so off topic (should be about ‘Could externally added protection slow down network …’).
Disappointingly even the off topic item(s) go nowhere.
I am dying to learn some specifics and practical do-able things but deeply disappointed.
Give this thread a rest, beloved pals/gals of Windows Secrets.
R.I.P.

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This is so off topic (should be about ‘Could externally added protection slow down network …’).
Disappointingly even the off topic item(s) go nowhere.

Ignore any posts that are only subjective. Then you have plenty of useful recommendations and solutions. Including the only solution used anywhere that damage must not happen. And the solution that does not subvert internet speeds.

A ‘whole house’ protector, routinely installed on all telephone (DSL) connections, does best protection (because it is earthed). And does not subvert internet speeds (has low capacitance). Best protection for internet via coax cable is direct earthing – no protector. It also does not subvert internet speeds. Both solutions are also required by the National Electrical code.

Cited were other protectors that can slow internet speeds. Some even slow ‘internet over power lines’. These are typically found adjacent to appliances. Often costs tens or 100 times more money than the well proven and properly earthed ‘whole house’ solutions.

Discussed was protection that costs less money, protects from the other and typically destructive surge, does not subvert internet speeds, and is the only solution proven by over 100 years of science and experience. An engineer who did this stuff even decades ago recommends the superior, properly earthed, and less expensive solution. How many others made recommendations with technical numbers in every post?

You are letting hearsay, myths, and claim from advertising confuse you. Eliminate them and a best solution was provided with reasons and numbers why it is a best solution.

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