Defrag will not run (Home Edition SP3)

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My computer is a Dell Dimension 8300, 2.6GHz processor, running Windows XP Home Edition SP3, and now has 2.3GB RAM, and has (2) 80GB HDD (both partitioned into primary and virtual and all partitions report as “Healthy” in Disk Management). It is completely up to date on MS updates and Secunia PSI reports no insecure programs. I had not run defrag for some time and in the interim have added 2GB of RAM as well as various other applications. For the first time ever, when I went into defrag it reported that “You should defragment this volume”. Normally when I go to do a defrag it says that it is not necessary but, if I have not done so for some time, I will do it in any case. I looked at the defrag report and it shows “Total fragmentation” of 12% and “File fragmentation” of 24% (Wow!!!). When I try to defrag it seems to start off OK but when the status at the bottom of the screen shows “(C:) Defragmenting… 3% Moving File (file name)” it simply stops and there is no (apparent) HDD activity. I have tried running defrag several times, sometimes waiting for several hours, and get the same result . I tried Auslogics defrag and it ran very quickly, less than 1 minute, and reported a gain of only 1% so, obviously that is not working either. I found mention of Power Defragmenter on this site, downloaded and installed it and have run it two or three times. It initially appeared to find and clear a lot of fragmentation but, unfortunately, there does not seem to be any reporting associated with this routine. After running Power Defragmenter I tried the native XP defragmenter again thinking that might have cleared the problem but, strangely, nothing seems to have changed. Right now I am at a loss as to what is going on. There does not seem to be any operating problem as the machine response is OK, not great but not a problem. It seems to me that if there is file fragmentation of 24% there would be a major slowdown but that is not the case. I should mention that I am getting toward the upper limit of free space on this volume but have 18% free space remaining (6.8GB free out of 37.5GB). Nothing that I have read so far would indicate that defrag would not run with this amount of free space but I am wondering if possibly that might be the problem. My 80GB Disk0 is divided about evenly in half into drive C: (primary) and D: (virtual). I did a backup today of C: with Acronis True Image Home 2009 to both my F: hard drive (80GB Disk1) and to an external Buslink drive. I do have Partition Magic installed (old Powerquest version) but hesitate to use it to open up more space on C: since I will invariably screw something up when I muck about with partitions. If anyone here in the Lounge could give me some guidance, or better yet, a solution, I would really appreciate it! I apologize for the length of this post.

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You might want to run CHKDSK. You can also try the JkDefrag v3.36.

Joe

--Joe

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You might also want to look at PerfectDisk 2008. They are offering a 30 day trial here

I have used PerfectDisk 6 on my Dell 8250 XP Pro box since it was new and would never consider going back to Windows native defrag utility. I haven’t tried the new 2008 version, no need to, the version I run does everything I need it to do.

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Joe and Doc- I guess that my problem is not a common one since you two were the only ones to respond. Anyway, apologies for the delay in response.

Joe- I installed JKDefrag and ran it and that did a defrag of some sort but did not cause any change in the XP defrag routine.

Doc- I also installed the evaluation version of PerfectDisk 2008 but, for some reason, it absolutely would not run properly. Same old, same old! It would get to Defragmenting 1% and hang. The reason for the long delay in responding to your posts is that I have been back and forth by email with a PerfectDisk tech support gal for the entire last week with no success. Until this morning. I went into Diagnostic Startup from msconfig and, after some finagling with PerfectDisk services, I got it to run correctly. When I went back to my normal operating mode, PefectDisk also runs there. I am clueless as to what went on, but as the saying goes, nothing succeeds like success!!! I have an idea that I will probably end up buying PerfectDisk since I really like the interface and all of the additional information it supplies.

Thank you both for your help!

Jerry Young

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Jerry,

Glad you found something that works for you and that you were able to resolve your “issue”. And thanks for posting back with your solution. The information may be useful to someone in the future.

~Doc

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HI Doc,
It’s been a while since I was on the Lounge and was glad to see that you’re still here. The reason I haven’t been around is I had/ am having major health issues since last March and April when I was in the hospital for six weeks with a bad staph blood infection. Hope I get better soon…

My question is, I was reading about the defrag issue Jerry had as I’m having for the first time ever since Windows 95 days a file that for some reason won’t defrag. I didn’t try any aftermarket defrag programs like Perfect Disk or the Jk as I was concerned about messing up my machine if I did try one of these. So, is it a big deal to have a file that won’t defrag? Two, would you recommend that I try and fix it, can it cause problems down the road?

Thanks very much in advance Doc for you help because I know if anybody would know about this it would be you! JeffT

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Can you give us some information that this file that won’t defragment?

How big is it?
How many fragments does it have?
How often do you access the file and are these accesses time critical?

Last time I had a file that wouldn’t defragment I copied it to another disk, deleted the original and copied it back again.

StuartR

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Sorry to hear of your health problems. I hope you get well soon.

A bit more information about the file you are having problems with would help. File name and type (.exe, .dll, .jpg, etc) and where it is located. Do you get an error mesage or does defrag just hang or skip the file and let you know at the end that it was unable to defrag it ??

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Well, that’s the problem as it shows up as a red line in the defrag “Estimate Disk Usage” before & after defragmentation. In other words after defrag is run the red line still there. I’ve no idea how to determine what file it is because after I run defrag it’s not show in the “View Report”. That’s what’s so weird about this as you’d think it would be shown in the Report after defragging because the red line is still shown when you run Analyze and there’s nothing in View Report about it. Maybe this will help, but it’s{the red line} in the first big blue file block of “Estimated Disk Usage before Defragmentation”. I’m showing in “Most Fragmented Files” several files requiring defragging in “System Volume Information”. There’s 3 of these files 3mb each. These are present ONLY BEFORE defrag is run and gone afterward.

Sorry guys but this is all I can tell you other than if you’d tell me how to find out what kind of a file this is and if there’s a program that does this please let me know.

Thanks for trying to help me out, JeffT

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The builtin XP defragger requires a minimum of 15% free space to run unless you run it in a command line with the -f option. You may not have enough free space to defrag the three files or they are locked by XP and can’t be moved. You may need a tool that will defrag at boot time to do process these files. the Xp defrag tool will not do this. The defrag tool in XP is generally thought to be be pretty weak. See the threads above for some suggestions about other products.

Joe

--Joe

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Very large image cropped by HansV

Joe,
I’ve plenty of free space (74%), so that of course isn’t the problem as I’ve even tried defragging it in Safe Mode and that didn’t do the trick. In view of what you said I take it and what Doc and others have written that the aftermarket defrag tools are pretty safe to use. So I’m guessing that one of these will do the trick, right? Even so, I’ve read that having one or up to four files fragmented won’t hurt performance of the machine, is this true? I only have one and as I said my suspicions are that it’s System Volume Information. I hope you can see it, but the file that won’t defrag is shown 1/3 of the way up the blue bar. My screen shot also shows the System Volume Info files I’m talking about in the “Most Fragmented Files” box. Thanks for trying to help me figure this out.

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Did you run a full chkdsk as Joe suggested above?

I have not used any of the free defraggers mentioned above, but do use Defraggler which lists which files are fragmented, as well as their size and number of fragments.

I usually find it best to defrag immediately after a reboot and with the minimum of applications running. Having some remaining fragmented files on the root drive can be expected if they are locked for access by the operating system.

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Leif,
Have you had any problems with Defraggler? I’ve read a couple of post where guys have had trouble when using this program in XP and suggested the Jk 3.36 in favor of it. I don’t know of course but am willing to attempt using one if you fellows recommend using them. Thanks for your input, Jeff

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Two things. One, I use JKDefrag on several XP systems at work and have not had a problem with it. Two, the 3 MB files appear to be part of your System Restore information. It is not worth your time or effort to defrag them. They won’t be accesed unless you need to use System Restore, are time limited, and will be replaced when System Restore needs the space.

Joe

--Joe

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Personally, no problems.

Looking at your screenshot, I really don’t think it worth worrying about – relatively speaking you have minimal defragmentation and as it appears to be your root drive, you are likely to have locked files as I mentioned before.
As Joe has said, your System Restore files are in a state of constant flux and defragging them is really not worth it.

One file shown as fragmented is your in.mbx which I take to be a mailbox. have you closed down all your email applications? – and file in use is unlikely to be defragmented.

And have you run chkdsk???

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Doc, have you ever used the Defraggler program Lief mentioned?

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Never have used Defraggler. As I said, I’ve used Perfect Disk v6.0 since my system was new and have never found the need to change or upgrade.

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There’s enough input in this thread that I should probably keep out, but Leif has asked you about one of my hot-button topics so I’m gonna jump in also. I have, since back in DOS days, been a firm believer in running CHKDSK prior to any “major” system maintenance, including defragging a drive! One should at least give the operating system a chance to repair or remove any corrupt files or file storage glitches BEFORE doing maintenance chores. I speak from hurtful experience that if you don’t you run the risk of really compounding what could be a “fixable” problem – to the sometimes detriment of disabling an entire drive. The operating system (chkdsk) can usually easily fix a cross-linked file or two or so, but if not repaired, that problem can continue to magnify.

Please run a CHKDSK…

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Hi Al,
I will run CHKDSK as I believe that’s good advice. Also if it is in fact a System Restore file it’s not worth worrying about but should be self correcting over time as new restore points are created. So it should take care of it’s self with time, but hasn’t as it’s been there for at least 3 months now. Perhaps it would be worth while for me to try the Jk3.36 defrag instead of the default Windows XP defrag, do you think? With this comment I’ll stop posting about this issue as I think the members are tired of discussing this. I just want to say THANK YOU KINDLY to all who have taken the time to try and help me out here as I really appreciate all you efforts! Kind Regards, Jeff

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If you think it’s a Restore Point file, you could delete all your old restore points (if everything is running OK, of course) and then turn off System Restore, reboot your system, turn System Restore back on and then create a new restore point. This new restore point will likely also be fragmented, but then you will know you have done all that you can, short of getting a copy of Perfect Disk. Then you will have the ability to defrag your System Files as well as your Page File.

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