Cumulative vs Delta Update

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I was looking at KB4284874 in the update catalog which is listed as safe for my 1703 windows. I notice a list of KBs the Cumulative option replaces and I got to thinking…. I only do manual security updates via the catalog d/l and wondered if there is any reason not to go with the Cumulative option ( besides the size).
For that matter why do 2 versions even exist? If I do NOT do the Cumulative version could I be missing a dependency?

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When you update through Windows Update, there may be updates bundled with the monthly Cumulatives that are not apparent. An example of this is the Servicing Stack Update.Installing the CUs through Windows Update automatically downloads and installs the SSUs first then the CU.

If you use the catalog to obtain updates, you also need to know what other non-listed updates are needed and the order in which to install them.

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CADesertRat, Elly

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“Cumulative vs Delta” — is that “Group C” and “Group D”? 😆

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I could be wrong in this, but I believe that, until now at least, all necessary updates for Windows 7 in its various editions have been listed at ghacks and the Master Patch List once they are released, with the way to install them being explained afterwards in various threads here at Woody’s. This might explain why, after installing as Group B for several years now, and always waiting for the dust to settle for at least two weeks after every release, my machine still seems to work without problems. But, please, correct me if I am wrong and, or missing something important here. Thanks.

Group B, Windows 7 Pro SP1, x64, Intel I-7 “sandy bridge”

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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The reference is to Win10

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OscarCP

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PKCano wrote:

When you update through Windows Update, there may be updates bundled with the monthly Cumulatives that are not apparent. An example of this is the Servicing Stack Update.Installing the CUs through Windows Update automatically downloads and installs the SSUs first then the CU.

If you use the catalog to obtain updates, you also need to know what other non-listed updates are needed and the order in which to install them.

I that latter true with both the Cumulative and Delta updates via Catalog, or does that mean the Cumulative is the better option for someone who is not devoting 10s of hours to the process?

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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wavy wrote:

I that latter true with both the Cumulative and Delta updates via Catalog, or does that mean the Cumulative is the better option for someone who is not devoting 10s of hours to the process?

Windows Update is the way to go if do not want to be “devoting 10s of hours to the process.” Because whether you use the CU or the Delta from the Catalog, you need to spend time learning what all is needed.

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The way I understand cum. vs Delta is that you have to make sure that all previous updates are installed before using a Delta update, hence the reason why Delta updates are smaller in size than cum. updates.

I just D/L KB 4284819 the other day for my W10 1709. I D/L the cum. since I didn’t know whether I was missing anything else. It’s a pain because the cum. is a huge file but better safe than sorry. 🙂

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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And sometimes you need the SSU also and that is not necessarily obvious.

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So I assume that the SSU is is bundled with the cum. update then? The reason I ask is that last month, I had to uninstall a cum. update so that I could get an SSU installed prior to installing the cum. update. Was that a waste of time?

Hmmm, come to think of it, I don’t believe the SSU is bundled since it has to be installed prior to the cum. update.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Bundled in WU, NOT bundled on manual from Catalog.

And that happens on other occasions like KB4099950 that was two files bundled (not listed) with CUs on WU, but the download was both the .msu and the PCIClear extra .exe for manual install.

WU is smarter than most of us!

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CADesertRat

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Yes, bundled. You click on download for the CU. WU downloads SSU and CU together and installs the SSU first automatically.

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wavy

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Yes, that is what I meant, WU has it all and installs in order but windows catalog ( which is what I have been using to try and stay away from 1803 if possible ) has to have the SSU separately installed 1st and then the Cum. Update.

Last month needed the SSU which I hadn’t noticed until you pointed it out to me ( thanks ), but this month I didn’t notice any SSU for KB 4284819 so I D/L that and installed it ( from the catalog ).

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Thanks for the replies folks!
Ok let me recap what I think have learned:

1- Delta Updates via Catalog may have prerequisites (Such as Servicing Stack Updates ) and may require a certain install order.

2- Cumulative Updates via Catalog will NOT always include Servicing Stack Updates but will otherwise enforce install order as required with files included in the Cumulative Update. Servicing Stack Updates must be installed first and separately in most cases.

Now given that Windows Update will pretty much throw whatever it wants to at you and time and memory are limited, using Cumulative Updates via Catalog (as they are deemed acceptable by the more involved here and at other forums) with attention to installing required Servicing Stack Updates first, is a not unwise strategy to ‘keep Windows patched’ .
🙂

please let me know if I am off base and I will edit this post with corrections or clarifications. Which I am doing now after rereading the above!

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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wavy wrote:

2- Cumulative Updates via Catalog will include any prerequisites (Such as Servicing Stack Updates ) and will enforce install order as required with files included in the Cumulative Update.

This is NOT correct. ONLY through WU do you get the bundled patches. Any time you manually download from the Catalog, YOU have to do everything that WU would have done in the correct order. That includes downloading all the patches individually.

Patching from the Catalog is really not meant for the consumer. Yes, I know Group B does it, but supposedly only for the security-only (non-cumulative) and IE CUs for Win7/8.1. However, getting everything that is needed and in the right order (what with all the patches not mentioned like the servicing stack, hotfixes, revisions of patches several times after release, etc) has become more and more difficult. Although I will get arguments to the contrary (I can hear rhe screaming now), use of the Catalog to patch is has become no longer viable without additional knowledge and/or WSUS (or other Enterprise solution).

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wavy

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Ok maybe I need to set up a WSUS server on my home network. Will that enforce needed order or am I still going to need to put in my 10s of hours of research each month.

How I miss to good old days when it was still possible to pick and choose from windows update!!

& thanks again for the clarification , I had edited my previous post already having missed a couple of posts previous to it

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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I am not the expert on WSUS servers, but from what I’ve read here on the site, you have to get the server settings right AND the workstation settings right. Then you have to APPROVE the patches you need to install for the workstation on the server side. AND, you have to keep the server itself updated. Seems like you are just making more work for yourself

IMHO, your best friends are the Settings App, Group Policy, and RegEdit on the computer and wushowhide.diagcab to hide/unhide patches. That’s the PRO version. The HOME version has almost no options but Metered connections and wushowhide.diagcab

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wavy

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Wavy, unfortunately MS has made us work for selective updating, no matter how you do it. In my case, in order to attempt to hold off 1803 I have made all the settings in WU Advanced and gone to a metered connection so I have to manually go to the catalog for whatever updates I want for 1709. I also have to update Defender by using the Defender updating mechanism manually.

When I see that there is an update available for 1709, I go to the MS update info and look near the bottom of the page to see if there is a SSU for that particular cum. update. If so, I look that up 1st in the catalog and then the cum. update. Last month I missed seeing it and Susan mentioned it in one of her articles so I posted a question about it and PKCano pointed it out to me so I had to uninstall that cum. update and install the SSU and then re-install the cum. update. So bottom line, it takes a lot of research and the updates are getting larger to D/L every month.

NOTE: this is all after Susan has given her blessing on whatever cum. update I am looking at. Hope this helps

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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wavy

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PKCano
I have windows update turned off so I have been relying on PatchWatch and BelArcAdvisor for patching flags. I see w/ WSUS I would still need to do that sooo no go! 🙁
wushowhide.diagcab has never worked correctly for me, likely requires some thing I shut down from the Reg, or a Group Policy setting, or a service I disabled.

CADesertRat

That latter is the sad and telling part.
I guess I will just keep my methods (maybe add a bit more latency in my scheme) for now and always do an Image b4 I patch.

Thanks to both of you!

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Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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