Considerations migrating from Win7 to Win10

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UPGRADING By Susan Bradley With time winding down on Windows 7 support, more than a few users of that venerable OS are looking for some upgrade clarit
[See the full post at: Considerations migrating from Win7 to Win10]

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SueW, abbodi86

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If yours is not an enterprise installation, but an ordinary user at home, one of your first considerations should be do you really need to dump your Windows 7 system?

I have had some real on the ground experience with this with my stable of 123 Win7 client computers. not a single one of them has had a single Microsoft Update since May 2017. That is 3321 months of usage with out a single instance of a problem. In fact, my support work is less than 25% of what it was when updates took place regularly. Not a single hack or virus –NADA.

The following describes my strategy:

My comments below do NOT apply to enterprise installations. They do however apply to the average Mary and Joe home use of Windows.

The reality is that hundreds of millions of Win7 systems will continue to operate well beyond the MS “end of support” date come Jan 2020. In my opinion, the loss of that support will bring stability to an excellent platform that has seen much turmoil and damage by MS sub-standard and devious efforts to “update” it.

What is astounding to me, is my discovery that by ending “support” May 2017, it now appears clear that the paranoid push to “update” is way over-blown. To this day my now 123 client Win7 systems run better than they have by a long shot now compared to previous to that time. There has yet to be a single instance of any kind of problem as a result of discontinuation of updates in these 27 months.- 3321 computer months of use.

The paranoia around updating still abounds in the Windows tech world.

I am well down the path to creating what I call “Final State” system images for all my clients. In effect, they make it possible to continue to use Win7 for as long as the computer is still used. Replacing any part but the mother board should be possible. In fact, Microsoft could evaporate and these systems will continue to operate just fine.

Keep in mind that all development on Windows 7 ended Dec 31, 2014. View updates since then with suspicion, especially ones that are not security related. At that same time, QC for Windows updates (WU) was ended. Consequently WU quality has become highly suspect. I would speculate that most of your problems are caused by them. This has affected Microsoft Office as well. Do not accept driver updates from Microsoft. Only get them from the OEM for your equipment. Note that other than a re-install, you should never update a driver unless you have a specific problem that it solves and then only that specific driver.

1. Switch to the Chrome browser
2. Install the free VLC media player
3. Stop using Internet Explorer
4. Uninstall Adobe Flash Player
5. Uninstall Adobe Reader
6. Uninstall Java
7. Install a top-rated antivirus (AV) product (I do not recommend “security” products)
8. Do backups regularly
9. Consider re-installing Windows and create an image copy of the installation
10. If your hard drive is over 5 years old, consider replacing it (under $100) before you re-install
11. When your system no longer functions, buy a new one.

Note, when you re-install using such an image, you do not need an installation disk or any activation. I just did one of these this week and it took me less than 2 hours instead of 12.

A good solid source of information on AV products is https://www.av-comparatives.org/

My Windows Update strategy is based on three key events:

1. Dec 31, 2014 all Win7 development ended. Therefore anything that is NOT security is something you do not want because it is how MS tries to make your Win7 machine operate more like win10 from its own perspective
2. September 2016/ The last date that you were able to select out updates you do not want. Rollups began
3. Security-only updates were available until June 2017, when they fixed a bum Security only update in a Rollup. That meant if you used a June 2017 Security only update, you installed a bug which you cannot fix unless you install a rollup. I presume this policy continues to this day

In addition, Office updates started going haywire all over the place starting in June 2017.
So, when you do a re-install, you want to be selective on which updates offered you accept. I follow the above dates and end all updating of any kind that was issued after May 2017.

CT

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TaskForce141, T, SueW, KWGuy, Seff, Myst

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CT: About the only part of your advice that I am uncomfortable with is your suggestion to use Chrome, and it’s because of privacy concerns. What is your opinion on Firefox as the primary browser?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I have never used Firefox. None of my clients to either. It is highly preferred by techies.

CT

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Loads of Business grade PCs/Laptops that are currently running Windows 7 Pro actually shipped with Windows 8/8.1 Pro licensees and where factory downgraded, at that time, by their OEMs to Windows 7 Pro, via Windows 8/8.1 pro OS version Downgrade Rights.

So many consumers that purchased these systems have only to check on devices for the license sticker that says Windows 8 Pro, or 8.1 Pro. HP Probooks/other business grade PC/laptop brands from HP, Dell’s Business grade PC’s Laptop brands as well, and other Laptop makers with business grade PC/Laptop lines.

There are also 8/8.1 retail license keys still available for purchase and third party software

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If my Windows 7 computer had a Windows 8.1 OEM sticker on it, I would upgrade to Windows 8.1 in a heartbeat. I would install Classic Shell after doing so, and then configure it to look and feel exactly like Windows 7.

Doing this would get me 3 additional years of support from Microsoft at no cost.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Stay tuned I’m going to be doing more on why I don’t think 7 after it’s end of life is a good thing 🙂

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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I will be looking forward to that Susan. I have 28 months and counting of experience without updates already. So far, it has been a dream. Win7 has never worked as well before and my clients are past delighted. I stress, I believe your advice is solid and correct for any business/enterprise situation, but for the average Joe/Jane, it is really not needed. Most people would rather not spend all that money and my experience shows they do not have to.

CT

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Stay tuned I’m going to be doing more on why I don’t think 7 after it’s end of life is a good thing

Susan,
Many home users are still using Windows 98 with KernelEx, and Windows XP. There is no worries about still using W7 with a few common sense ideas that others have already mentioned. I still have a Windows 98 that I used on a daily base and surf on Internet and zero infections. That computer is a work horse and until it is stopped I will used. I still have XP that I use as well.

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TaskForce141

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I know you are the expert and I am just a tech. But these things, I think still need to be said.

1)No more updates

This is nonsense. Proof: ( From https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_vista-update/updates-not-working-it-has-been-searching-for/92cd6922-17f6-4730-b46b-91a480b95dd3 )

Quote : ”

****IMPORTANT EDIT as of June 2017: Microsoft released five special out-of-band security updates for Vista SP2 in June 2017 to patch vulnerabilities for the NSA-leaked exploits EnglishmanDentist, EsteemAudit and ExplodingCan. These important security updates were posted on the Microsoft Update Catalog but will not be delivered via Windows Update. Once Windows Update has successfully installed all available Vista SP2 and IE9 updates as of April 2017 (STEP # 6 above) see the thread More Shadow Brokers Exploits Patched June 2017 for Win XP and Vista for instructions on how to install these June 2017 security updates.****” End Quote

Note that these updates are after the April date of vista EOL and also include XP. Want more proof? Remember the BlueKeep update? That was after over two years after vista and XP EOL. Face it, while most security updates are not available, Ms WILL update older OS if the security is really needed. I feel if the updates / bug fixes are really important, THEY WILL HAPPEN. The others are not as much of a big deal.

2) People do not write virus for older Os. Why would they? That means the 10 is a prime target and those with EOL OS’s are safer simply because the bugs /secure fix for 10 unless 10 is  using older stuff also found in older OS’s will not exist is older systems. Again the tire example, by patching a hole you create new places for a blow out. Always IMO to replace the code / tire then to write code to “patch” the bug / hole.

3) 10 by its nature has build in holes. You can patch them all you want but unless you REMOVE the hole completely, the way in is still there. “phoning home” MUST be completely removed from 10 in order for it to be secure.

4) 10 forced updates are causing the os to be always a word in progress. The usability of 10 is not assured. It is likely that it could be down when you need it most. Other older operating systems WORK. and the future of no updates (except for IMPORTANT one) means less things that could break because of a bad update.

5) older OS’s will run task required programs that many business and others need and use. 10 could be incapable with a program you REQUIRE to run your business, and you might not have the budget  to port your program to 10.

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Canadian Tech wrote:

1. Switch to the Chrome browser 2. Install the free VLC media player 3. Stop using Internet Explorer 4. Uninstall Adobe Flash Player 5. Uninstall Adobe Reader 6. Uninstall Java

I’ve done everything above as noted in your quote here, but Java in my Chrome browser is necessary with some sites when using checkout, without it everything is a jumbled mess with missing parts. Is there a way around this by using something else? Maybe I’m overlooking something, and if I am please advise or steer me in the right direction, thanks, always appreciate your posts.

MacOS iPadOS and sometimes SOS

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Chessie

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Are you sure you mean JAVA rather than Javascript?

The two technologies are NOT the same, but they are often confused with one another.

Javascript is built into all browsers. Most websites require Javascript to render correctly.

JAVA is a browser PLUGIN from Oracle that you have to install (and update) manually. Very few sites need JAVA. Notable exceptions are a few science-based sites, which use JAVA to compute things like star maps and satellite tracking. Personally, have never seen JAVA required by any banking and/or e-commerce sites.

If you have JAVA installed, it will have its own control panel and appear in the list of installed programs. Javascript does not do either of these things.

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Myst, geekdom

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EstherD wrote:

Personally, have never seen JAVA required by any banking and/or e-commerce sites.

My bank requires Java if you wish to use the remote check deposit feature via the website (the only way you can do it from a PC rather than the mobile app).  The irony is that the same bank yells at me for using such an old version of Firefox, which I only use (in a Windows 7 VM) because I need one old enough to still support the NPAPI plugins.  I would not be using old Firefox, or Java, or Windows 7, if they weren’t all part of making that site work.

Java is on the way out, and very few sites require it anymore.  It’s been a security nightmare for ages, so if there is not anything you really need it for, I’d get rid of it.  I don’t have it installed in Waterfox (my main browser, which can still use NPAPI plugins)… it is only in that VM, which I seldom use, then roll back to the same snapshot from which it started after each use.

In 25 years of running Windows, the only malware I ever had was a random drive-by from a compromised web site that exploited a zero-day in my Java plugin, which at the time was a normal thing to have installed.  Like most, I had Windows XP running in admin mode, but I did have a HIPS program that caught and blocked it (though I fumbled the initial warning and let it run, it blocked on its attempt to modify the registry).  I submitted the sample to a few antimalware vendors, and one wrote back and confirmed that it was a new malware, previously unknown.

Javascript, of course, is (as you say) a completely different animal, and cannot be uninstalled from the PC in the manner CT suggested.  It’s built into Firefox/Chrome and their derivatives, and can only be turned off, not removed.  If you do turn it off, most sites will work poorly or not at all.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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Myst

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Please note ascaris, I did NOT suggest uninstalling Javascript. Just Java for the very reasons you explained so well.

CT

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Myst

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Ascaris wrote:

Javascript, of course, is (as you say) a completely different animal, and cannot be uninstalled from the PC in the manner CT suggested.  It’s built into Firefox/Chrome and their derivatives, and can only be turned off, not removed.  If you do turn it off, most sites will work poorly or not at all.

Thanks @Ascaris, that says it all when stating the difference between Java and Javascript. As @Canadian Tech said, Javascript is built in with Chrome which explains why you can’t uninstall it and when disabling it in the browser, sites don’t work well or at all. Checked a bit ago and saw where Java isn’t on my machine, so I must have uninstalled it awhile back. Thank you

MacOS iPadOS and sometimes SOS

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After the Jan 2020 W7 end of support, is it likely that MS will keep the windows update servers running for a limited period of time to allow “catch up” updating?  I know this is speculative, but I’m curious as to MS’s past practice.

I intend to continue using my W7 systems after end of life, but generally defer updating from November thru March (don’t need any surprises during tax season!!!).

Thanks!

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Follow my advice. re-Install windows 7 now, keeping in mind the details I laid out before. Then create a system image before you add data or dynamic applications like browsers or AV. That image will allow you to re-install Windows 7 any time you like. Would not even matter if Microsoft had evaporated. If you want more detailed instructions, I can provide them. I’ve set most all my clients up this way. I expect they will continue to use Win7 for as long as their hardware still works and the primary aps lke AV are still available.

CT

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KWGuy

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Why not just go to the Windows update catalog and create a folder on some external drive/media with all the Windows 7 updates downloaded and stored in that folder so that’s 10 years of updates including the Service pack 1 with options for that convenience roll-up as well all downloaded and saved.

The biggest problem for any clean install for folks with windows 8 recovery DVDs is getting the PC’s/Laptop’s drivers off of that DVD and onto a clean 8.1 installer image. And there are loads of business grade laptops/PCs that shipped with Windows 8 Pro and their OEMs installing windows 7 Pro via Pro OS version downgrade rights.

But really the articles that readers need the most are the articles that show them how to slipstream the KB’s and needed PC/Laptop drivers into a ready made System Image that can be Burned onto  DVDs or stored on a Flash drive and folks keeping that handy as their new external recovery media.

Maybe even the Business laptop OEMs like Dell and HP/others that sold millions of Business grade PCs/Laptops with Windows 8 need to produce some Windows 8.1 recovery media images for their lines of Business PCs and Laptops that came with Windows 8 Pro licenses on the computers. So those folks that purchased laptops with Windows 7 Pro via OEM Pro OS version downgrade rights from Windows 8 Pro can update their windows 7 Pro laptops to Windows 8.1 without having to be IT experts.

HP sold millions of ProBooks with Windows 8 licenses where HP factory downgraded the laptops to Windows 7 Pro via Pro Windows version downgrade rights.  And many Business grade laptops could not be sold with Windows 8 Pro, at that time because, Windows 8/8Pro was such a train-wreck in progress.

I have a Probook(Windows 8 Pro License) and I received 2 sets of Recovery  DVDs, one  set for Windows 7 Pro and one set for Windows 8 Pro! and the Probook shipped from the factory with Windows 7 Pro installed via pro OS version downgrade rights at the factory by HP. I’m already going to remove the old hard drive with Windows 7 still installed and purchase a SATA SSD to install Windows 8 Pro from the Windows 8 Pro recovery DVDs.

I guess I’ll begin to start downloading the necessary Windows 8 KBs in advance including the KB that for Windows 8.1 that’s supposed to replace Windows 8. But it would sure be nice if I could download from HP some newer more up to date windows 8.1 Pro image with the correct drivers for my laptop and that includes the drivers for the discrete mobile AMD GPU that came with the laptop as well. And that’s AMD/OEM(HP) laptop graphics drivers so they have to be the versions that comes from HP and not the generic graphics drivers, And ditto for the Intel Integrated graphics drivers as well.

With all the Enterprise and volume licensing customers getting the option to purchase extended Windows 7 updates until 2023 from MS I do not think that the windows 7 update servers will disappear until 2023 and the windows 8 servers may be around a while longer than that depending on some big Governmental/Institutional needs to remain on 8.1 longer as well.

The really nice thing about My HP Probook is that It’s DVD/CD payer can be removed and swapped out with Hard-Drive/SATA SSD dive Caddy and I can have 2 Drives in my system. And I can also purchase a USB DVD/CD Drive enclosure and turn the removed DVD/CD drive into an External USB DVD/CD player as well. The Probook(Ivy Bridge Mobile Intel CPU based) is using a socketed CPU that can be upgraded as well to a higher end Ivy Bridge CPU. So it’s not a soldered on  BGA(Ball Grid Array) CPU and the only processor that’s soldered to the Motherboard is the AMD Discrete Mobile GPU so that’s not replaceable.

Those Older Pre-Ultrabook Business grade laptops with the DVD players and more robust processor cooling solutions where the best and many came with socketed CPUs as well that can be somewhat upgraded within the same generation of CPUs, replaceable batteries and memory as well. And they all had great repairability scores that the Business oriented Ultrabooks totally lack in comparison.

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TaskForce141

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Why not just go to the Windows update catalog and create a folder on some external drive/media with all the Windows 7 updates downloaded and stored in that folder so that’s 10 years of updates including the Service pack 1 with options for that convenience roll-up as well all downloaded and saved.

Dear anonymous:

A much easier way to do this is to use http://wsusoffline.net/ . Don’t be put off by the German at the top — the English comes right after.

I’ve use WSUSoffline for years to update offline PCs and also to preserve a copy of all the updates necessary when a platform is no longer supported. Highly recommended.

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SkipH

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I am very interested in wsusoffline. Please supply a link to the site itself. The link you provided is just to an intro.

CT

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CT
The Menu is at the top

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I am not familiar with those version numbers……

CT

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… yes, so, wsusoffline.net doesn’t actually distribute the updates, they’re not authorized to.

What they do distribute is a tool that makes it easy to download update sets from Microsoft. That tool is at version 11.8.1 and downloads updates for Windows 7, 8.1, 10; Windows Server 2008 R2, 2012, 2012 R2 and 2016; and offline-updateable MS Office (msi version, so up to 2016).

The tool can run on systems other than what the produced update package will be for.
Can run the downloader on Linux to make update sets for Windows, even.

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In searching AskWoody, I did not find a posting/forum in which I thought the following fit exactly; I also am not sure that I found an answer in either AW or in general Net search. So, here goes: ….. In considering an upgrade from Win 7 to Win 8, using upgrade rights and CD from when I bought the PC 4 years ago; Issue is whether upgrade to Win8 might fail due to my installing the two SHA-2 patches from earlier this year. (I have had old KB3133977 installed in Win 7 for 4 years.) In other words, whether an install, or a post-install boot, of Win8 would fail due to M$ alteration of boot sector. Possible answer: On Net ( https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/security-updates/SecurityAdvisories/2015/3033929 ) I found following M$ comment: “….. As with the original release, Windows 8, Windows 8.1…(et al.) … do not require this update because SHA-2 signing and verification functionality is already included in these operating systems …..” Thanks to all!

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This may not be the answer you were expecting. Years and years of experience have taught me at least one lesson very well. NEVER, upgrade. Always do a clean install. Lots of reasons

CT

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Ascaris, Kirsty

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Many, many years ago I would have agreed but not now. I’ve upgraded many machines without issue. I upgraded one of my personal PCs from XP to Vista to Win7 with all service packs and updates for each. It ran Win7 quite well until I retired it. I’ve upgraded quite a few machines from Win7 to Win10 successfully. IMO, all you need do is prepare properly for a major update – image backup of the current system, itemize the make/model of all peripherals, have copies of driver installs (just in case). Of course, that would be my advice for a clean install too.

--Joe

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Something to consider is, if you have a spare drive (HDD/SSD/SSHD) swap it and use that for a fresh windows 10 installation whilst keeping your original Windows 7 installation storage device unplugged should you wish to revert back at any point.

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Either way, upgrade or not, it’s best to make periodic system images onto a portable hard drive, which can be stored offline for disaster recovery.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

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I have not wanted to dedicate a hard drive to this task. I have been doing this for years now on all my clients’ computers. I use DVD’s. But, I must add that you should NOT use DVD MINUS R’s. Rather use DVD PLUS Rs. There is a big difference. I’ve done at least 100 of these and restored from probably 20. Never had a problem with the DVD images, once I learned about the plus/minus difference.

I should add that if you make the image just after your installation and all updating is completed to your satisfaction. And after a SFC, CHKDSK, Disk Cleanup, and Defrag, it takes from 2 to 6 DVD’s.

The idea of the image is not a backup. It is copy of your hard drive that is a complete operating system for that computer that has its drivers, has already been activated and requires no install software. When restoring one of these, it is really like magic. In 20 to 60 minutes, you have a completely set up system ready for you to restore your backup.

CT

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I am in the process of trying to figure out which way to go regarding Windows 10.  I am looking to purchase a new desktop harddrive.  I was looking at Dell Inspiron 3670.  I am thinking of the Intel i5 processor.  It’s only $60 more to purchase the Windows 10 Pro with the Dell system.  But not sure if it would provide me much more than what I need as an average home user.  Anyone have any feedback?

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If it was me, I’d spend the extra $60 for Pro… YMMV 🙂

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On another note, is it true that if you have Windows 7 Pro, you’ve only to pay
$50 for 1 year support / $100 for 2 years support? – Maybe only for businesses?
Just untruths seen on YouTube perhaps.

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Extended support is only available to the highest-paying multi-seat Enterprise licenses.

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The Windows 10 I’m using was upgraded from Windows 7 in February, if Windows 7 is too old, it can be a hassle to upgrade. I tried three times before I succeeded.

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“too old”?

I’ve never heard of that. What does “too old” mean?

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Just a curious story.Years back Vista came along ,got a real bad rap in many stories. Friend of ours computer Techie  supplied us with new Acer laptop,loaded with Vista,at my grousing he told me,it will be A1 as a new installation, but not as an upgrade. He was completely on the level, it is still in use and running like a top.

Joe Thiel

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That is correct on two parts:
1. NEVER use upgrade. Always install cleanly
2. Vista, once it got to SP2 was just fine. In fact almost hard to recognize the difference between it and Windows 7.

Fact is, inspite of Microsoft’s claims, Windows 7 is really SP3 of Vista.

CT

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masterkim115 wrote:

The Windows 10 I’m using was upgraded from Windows 7 in February, if Windows 7 is too old, it can be a hassle to upgrade. I tried three times before I succeeded.

From Windows 7 to Windows 10.

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masterkim115 wrote:

The Windows 10 I’m using was upgraded from Windows 7 in February, if Windows 7 is too old, it can be a hassle to upgrade. I tried three times before I succeeded.

If the Windows 7 isn’t too old,the upgrade will be easy.

https://www.howtogeek.com/225048/how-to-upgrade-from-windows-7-or-8-to-windows-10-right-now/

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Canadian Tech wrote:

1. NEVER use upgrade. Always install cleanly

Personally I have never found that to be an issue in any way, and the only clean installs I have ever done were on newly purposed builds (like my NAS; nothing to upgrade over).

I have two dual-boot systems (daily-driver desktop and laptop).  The A side of my desktop was Windows 7 Ultimate, the B side Windows 7 Pro.  Same with the laptop.  On the B side of my desktop, I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro, then 8.1 Pro, then Windows 10 Pro as a member of Insiders.

When I realized I was spending all my time on the B side, rarely booting to the A side (Windows 7 Ultimate), I upgraded that side directly to Windows 10 Pro.  After that, I upgraded both sides of my laptop to Windows 10 Pro.

It has never been an issue.  A good friend upgraded from Vista (with service pack) to Windows 7 to Windows 10.  He’s had no issues, and his PC is a 10-year-old Gateway.  I’ve heard the “clean install” advice for a couple of decades, ignored it the whole time, and never had a problem upgrading over an existing installation of Windows.  With the exception of Magic Disc (an ISO mounting tool) all my programs continues to work.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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wavy, RockE, b, Alex5723

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