Clean installs for 24H2?

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On Tuesday, Microsoft announced that eligible devices on both Windows 10 and 11 will be offered the 24H2 release. As you know, I’m still not recommend
[See the full post at: Clean installs for 24H2?]

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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abbodi86, Alex5723, Norio, willjs atx, jburk07, dataman1701, lmacri

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Dear Susan,

I had first hand experience with a clean install of Windows 11 24H2 on the computer of my oldest that up to that moment was a Windows 10 22H2 with no possibility to upgrade to Windows 11 (according to Microsoft verrifications). It was having trouble with the battery, it was bloated as it was bought some time ago (seven, going for eight years), and it was getting slower. I wasn’t up to do such a thing so I brought it to a shop I use for this stuff asking that among other things they would do a clean install… I was thinking of Windows 10 because I knew the hardware wasn’t according to Microsoft up to standard. To my surprise they told me they had no trouble whatsoever to make the Windows 11 install. Afterwords I found out it was the 24H2 version! They told me that Microsoft had gone down on hardware requirements as they are indeed pushing to install the latest update… So far so good. Let’s see whether my son’s notebook survives my son… 🙂 It’s a HP Pavillion x360 13-u104nl notebook… if it can be useful for anyone.

Thank you for your good work.

R.

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Microsoft has not changed the hardware requirements.  That company used a method to get around the block.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Microsoft has not changed the hardware requirements. That company used a method to get around the block.

I was going to say the same thing. I looked up the CPU for that machine and it is an i5-7200U which is NOT listed as a supported device.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors

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I have a couple of virtual machines where I’ve made the necessary installer hacks to the registry that I’ve been able to get Windows 11 to install without TPM 2.0 being available.

I’ve found that on those machines, Microsoft is offering updates of 24H2 to those machines via Windows Update, and that it’s not a problem to upgrade to 24H2.  These VMs were originally with 22H2, and if I remember correctly, I had the same experience of upgrading from 22H2 to 22H3.

On the other hand, dating back to the era of semi-annual updates to Windows 10, my habit was to run only the oldest supported version, and upgrading only when necessary, by mounting the release .ISO and running SETUP.EXE from there (I also upgraded a number of machines from Win 7 to Win 10 that way).

If installing from .ISO (whether an annual upgrade or doing a Windows reset), the installer that is bundled in the .ISO will make the checks for TPM and SecureBoot, and if those aren’t enabled, then the installer will refuse to run, requiring the setup hacks in order to continue.

Although others may have different experiences, mine is that once Win 11 is running on a machine, even without TPM 2.0 active, Windows Update won’t check for that, and it’s not a problem to upgrade that way.  The only issue I’ve seen is if running the Windows installer.

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I’m a bit confused.  For those of us on windows 10, will microsoft start automatically updating us to 24H2, or will we be continued to offer the option to stay on current version of windows 10 (22h2).  Do I need incontrol to remain on windows 10 22h2?

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Hi, so if I keep TPM turned off in the bios this will not be offered to me right?

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Use GRC InControl to tell Windows not to update. There is a newsletter article with this info on the AskWoody Home page today.

cheers, Paul

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I have an interesting dilemma.  I just finished building a new PC.  This machine will eventually replace my current production machine (Windows 10) – but I have infinite flexibility about when that happens.  My plan was to install Windows 11 23H2, in fact I have installed 23H2 – but I have not gotten beyond that – still don’t have all the drivers, nor any other software loaded.  Based on the comment of Susan’s local computer firm regarding a recommended clean install of 24H2, I am wondering if I should just bite the bullet and start over with a clean install of W11 24H2 now and work thru whatever issues I encounter.  Opinions?

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See the bottom of Susan’s front page article for this morning.

https://www.askwoody.com/2025/clean-installs-for-24h2/

Remember that the 24H2 release is a full install — not an incremental one — so it’s back to creating a Windows.old  folder and swapping out the operating system. 24H2 is not ready for prime time.

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jboiler76

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Given it’s a new machine you can jump in at 24H2 and see how it goes. You still have all you need on the old machine.

cheers, Paul

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jboiler76, PL1

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New.  Go with 24H2.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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jboiler76, PL1

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What are the differences between Windows 11 23H2 and 24H2 that require full install/upgrade vs Enablement Package ?

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Fred

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Alex5723 wrote:

What are the differences between Windows 11 23H2 and 24H2 that require full install/upgrade vs Enablement Package ?

Per the Microsoft article here:Since they say it’s a “full OS swap”, there are probably SO many core OS files that need to be changed to entirely new versions that they simply couldn’t do it with an enablement package.

In other words, I’m pretty sure that there’s no way they could’ve successfully pulled off a complete replacement of the entire OS with just enabling a few new features, or pre-installing features to enable them at a later time.

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TechTango, opti1, Alex5723

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Windows 23H2 vs 24H2: what are these ‘key’ differences?

Perhaps this helps….

Windows 11 version 24H2 introduces several significant features and enhancements that necessitate a full operating system upgrade, distinguishing it from the enablement package approach used in version 23H2. Key differences include:

1. AI-Powered Features for Copilot+ PCs

Version 24H2 introduces exclusive AI-driven functionalities for Copilot+ PCs equipped with Neural Processing Units (NPUs):

Live Captions: Real-time transcription of audio content.

Cocreator in Paint: Enhanced creative tools within the Paint application.

Windows Studio Effects: Advanced camera and audio effects for improved video conferencing.

Auto Super Resolution: AI-based image enhancement capabilities.

Image Creator and Restyle Image: Tools for creating and editing images using AI.

2. Support for Emerging Technologies

The update incorporates support for the latest hardware standards:

Wi-Fi 7: Enhanced wireless connectivity with improved speed and reliability.

Bluetooth LE Audio: Support for low-energy audio devices, offering better battery efficiency and audio quality.

3. System Performance and Efficiency Enhancements

Version 24H2 includes optimizations aimed at improving system performance:

Energy Saver Mode: A new feature designed to extend battery life on laptops by optimizing power consumption.

Improved Windows Update Process: Reductions in installation times, CPU usage, and restart durations for monthly updates.

4. User Experience Improvements

The update brings several enhancements to the user interface and overall experience:

Quick Settings Expansion: More flexible and customizable quick settings for easier access to frequently used functions.

File Explorer Enhancements: Redesigned interface with labeled actions and an improved home section for better navigation.

System Tray and Date/Time UI Simplification: A more streamlined and user-friendly design.

These substantial additions and improvements in system architecture and functionality require a comprehensive OS upgrade, as they cannot be delivered through a simple enablement package.

…
…
e.o.f.

* _ ... _ *

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opti1, Berserker79, Alex5723

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Thanks Fred, that’s useful to know.

As far as I am concerned, I’m happy to stick to 23H2 as long as possible, these differences are not really worth the hassle of updating to me (and probably to a large portion of users too):

1. AI-Powered Features for Copilot+ PCs => entirely useless, especially without a Copilot+ PC;

2. 2. Support for Emerging Technologies => likely useful only to a handful of users using these Wi-Fi 7 and/or Bluetooth LE Audio, but at least good to have for the future;

3. System Performance and Efficiency Enhancements => I will believe in these only when I see them;

4. User Experience Improvements => these are by far going to be the most disruptive changes, I already foresee headaches trying to restore UI and other stuff they are going to change to the currently optimum settings…

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Fred

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Fred wrote:

Perhaps this helps….

I am not convinced these additional features require full install.

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Fred

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Alex5723 wrote:

Fred wrote:

Perhaps this helps….

I am not convinced these additional features require full install.

Very well possible.
Possibly is this a kernel change…
? Building in a backdoor, perhaps?

* _ ... _ *

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curious leo wrote:

I’m a bit confused.  For those of us on windows 10, will microsoft start automatically updating us to 24H2, or will we be continued to offer the option to stay on current version of windows 10 (22h2).  Do I need incontrol to remain on windows 10 22h2?

I’m curious about 24H2 on Windows 10 too, since the Windows 10 Release Information page still indicates “The final version of Windows 10 is version 22H2, which will reach end of servicing on October 14, 2025.”

What am I missing?

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24H2 refers to Windows 11.

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italiangm, Noel Carboni

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b wrote:

24H2 refers to Windows 11.

That’s what I thought, too. However, Susan wrote “On Tuesday, Microsoft announced that eligible devices on both Windows 10 and 11 will be offered the 24H2 release.”  If it’s just Windows 11, then the posting should be corrected.

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italiangm wrote:

However, Susan wrote “On Tuesday, Microsoft announced that eligible devices on both Windows 10 and 11 will be offered the 24H2 release.” If it’s just Windows 11, then the posting should be corrected.

Windows 10 can be upgraded to Windows 11 24H2, so the statement is valid.

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satrow, b

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While it may be valid, in that an eligible Win10 machine can be upgraded to 24H2 as part of an upgrade to Win 11, it is also highly misleading. The way it is worded indicates that Microsoft intends to offer Win10 users 24H2 with no mention of that being only as part of an upgrade to Win11:

“eligible devices on both Windows 10 and 11 will be offered the 24H2 release”

That seems pretty clear to me, if you’re running Win10 (and are eligible for Win11) you’ll be offered 24H2, but is it in fact the case that 24H2 will not routinely be offered on Win10 but only if you upgrade to Win11?

 

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italiangm

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There is NO Win10 24H2. The only 24H2 IS an upgrade to Win11 if you are on Win10 (and eligible). But that is NOT clear to to the hoi poloi.

 

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Seff, italiangm, satrow

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Thanks, that was always my understanding until I read Susan’s article which I found confusing on that point. I appreciate the clarification.

The critical point being, of course, that we don’t want Microsoft imposing Win11 on Win10 users just by offering them what may appear to be a routine update to Win 10 when in fact it constitutes the means to installing an update to Win11. So long as 24H2 is merely offered to Win10 users as an optional update, making it clear that it’s upgrading the machine to Win11, then that’s fine.

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italiangm

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I tried to upgrade from Windows 10 Pro 22H2 to Windows 11 Pro 24H2 by an “over the top” install. Only gave problems.
First by disabling genuine MS activation keys after 24 hours, and later by killing a legit manufacturer network driver (which was working fine). After I than succumbed to a plain ms driver the connection was repaired, but that again led to Defender and WuMgr not being able to connect anymore. I rest my case.

Thank you Macrium and Foxclone for bringing me back to my peaceful Win10/LMDE environment.

LMDE is my daily driver now. Old friend Win10 keeps spinning in the background

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TJ wrote:

I tried to upgrade from Windows 10 Pro 22H2 to Windows 11 Pro 24H2 by an “over the top” install. Only gave problems.

I had three Win10 machines that would not upgrade to Win11 23H2. I had to clean install all three. Those three successfully upgraded from 23H2 to 24H2.
I had one machine that upgraded from Win10 22H2 to Win11 24H2 with no problem (and it is an unsupported laptop). All of them work fine and three of them are not supported for Win11. I certainly would not be able to make a case for

TJ wrote:

I rest my case.

in either situation. That is way too small of a test case.

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I am having a problem downloading and installing InControl.

I follow the following procedure:

• I go to Susan’s first post for this topic,
• Click on the InControl link   (  https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm  )
• Arrive at the InControl web page,
• Click on Download Now,
• Save the download file to my computer,
• Click on the file to install,
• Land on a page that is headed InControl: Of Windows updating and Upgrading,
• Click on the Take Control button on the bottom of the page, and
• The application does not install.

Any thoughts?

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You’re running the utility, which requires no installation.

Change Release as desired before clicking Take Control.

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Kathy Stevens

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I will try Release when I have a few minutes and get back.

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As @b pointed out, InControl is a standalone program.

Once you enter the Version / Release info and click Take Control, it sets various values in the registry (see my posts in the W10 Grp Policy vs InControl thread for details) that prevents Windows feature updates from being offered.

Clicking Release Control removes those values and Windows feature updates will show up if your particular PC meets Microsoft’s requirements for the update.

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Windows has, well, always done better with a full, clean install.

That was a reasonable attribute when it was updated every 3 years or so.

Sigh. Now I always have to create a new Virtual Machine and work out the many, many [re-]tweaks it will require to get Windows to be trim, solid, and useful for me.
Again.

I was debating a co-worker the other day that a pretty good set of tweaking could still be done. His response: “Impossible, right off the bat the new Explorer always runs slowly and stalls even worse at various times”, to which I recorded a video and reminded him “not for me”.

That being said, why, o why do we have to work so hard to get Windows back to something that still delights and amazes (yes, I used those words and I stand by them)? I’m guessing all the developers who know how to make substantive and good changes to the actual usability of the system – opposed to just hanging more junk on it or moving pixels around in the UI(s) – must have moved on from Microsoft.

-Noel

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AlexEiffel

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Noel,

We are still brothers, remember?

My feelings are very similar to yours.

I am playing with Windows 11 to prepare for the inevitable and I encountered many weird issues like the settings window suddenly disappearing for no reason, the computer turning on and off repeatedly every few minutes (I found why) and others. It just doesn’t feel polished.

Also, the fact that Microsoft could push a feature update so disruptive it could maybe not install right or not even install is not good for a production environment. I am very nostalgic for the time when it was exciting to hear about a new version of Windows and when I was curious to see what it would be. Now, I just hope they leave it alone and not mess it up more than they already did.

Right now, I am wondering if I should just install Windows 10 for my new station and have more time to see things hopefully settle, but I am not sure if Windows Pro is eligible for the 3 years tax to get security updates or if it is only one year because it is not the Enterprise version.

Funny thing is, during my research I found that many tweaks I did for Windows 10 and things I disabled are now the default on Windows 11, just like what happened with 7 vs my tweaked Vista. Oddly, it is cleaner in some ways under the hood despite the bad new things on top.

 

 

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AlexEiffel

I would not install Windows 10 on your new station and then have to do battle with a Windows 11 transition later.

We just finished setting up a new HP Z2 Tower G9 Workstation running Windows 11 Pro. Not an easy task but well worth the time and effort.  In fact, we are finding Windows 11 Pro 24H2 to be stable and operates like summer lightning when installed on the new computer.

Our new machine is configured as follows:

• Intel Core i7-14700 Processor vPro Enterprise (2.1 GHz, up to 5.4 GHz w/Boost, 33 MB cache, 20 core, 65W) + Intel UHD Graphics 770,
• Crucial Pro 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 6000 (PC5 48000) Desktop Memory Model CP2K16G60C48U5,
• NVIDIA T400 (4 GB GDDR6, 3 x Mini DisplayPort) Graphics,
• Two WD BLACK 2TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drive with Heatsinks,
• Intel Wi-Fi 7 BE200 + Bluetooth 5.4 (no-vPro),
• 5mm SuperMulti DVDRW Optical Disc Drive,
• Type-C USB 3.1 Gen 2 Port v2,
• HP 125 Black Wired Keyboard, and
• A HP Wired 320M Mouse.

It took several hours to configure Windows 11 the way we want it including:

• Installing and setting up Windows 11 Pro 24H2 without Microsoft and HP accounts,
• Updating the HP drivers and then Windows 11,
• Twerking Windows 11 to better reflect the Windows 10 experience, and
• Using Revo Uninstaller Pro 5 to remove unwanted Windows components (such as Xbox) from the machine.

We then used LapLink PCMover to move apps, data, etc. from its predecessor to the new workstation.

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AlexEiffel, Fred, PL1

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Noel Carboni wrote:

Windows has, well, always done better with a full, clean install.

I cannot agree. I’ve been reading that for years, and have yet to find any merit for it. I’ve dual booted on my daily driver for a couple of decades (since XP), which has allowed me, through the years, to run comparisons/benchmarks etc. on the same hardware between Windows versions, clean install vs. upgrade. Having drive images at the ready, it is a simple task to upgrade one side and format/clean install the other side. I can compare the two and look for any differences.

After this analysis, it’s an easy task to restore my drive images to the clean install side, then upgrade it, just like the other side, because there is no discernible difference between a clean install and an upgrade on my daily driver, hence no need to go through and re-tweak all my settings and mods on a clean installation. I have a regimen of routine maintenance that is carried out, for the most part, by Task Scheduler. I also readily accept every Windows update that is offered, and have yet to be troubled by any of them.

I know there will be disagreement, there always is, but that’s how it works for me. As always, YMMV.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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My apologies, but as a Win10 22H2 user I am still confused on whether the Win11 update will be forced (non optional)?

Quite a few times in the past when I un-paused my updates, I would get a notice that Win 11 is available to download and install … but I’ve always had the option to click on ‘stay on Windows 10’.

I’m currently interpreting the information from MS that Win11 computers will probably get an automatic forced update to 24H2.  This is similar to how some of the Win10 version updates were eventually forced, but that was Win10 > a newer version of Win10.  Yes the update was forced, but it was a newer version of the same OS.

But if you’re on Win10 22H2, I’m interpreting that we’ll only get offered THE OPTION to upgrade to Win11 (v24H2), but will still be able to stay on Win10.

Is MS saying they will force update Win10 systems to Win11 without a choice?  Even during the Win7 days, MS always gave the option not to upgrade to Win10, even if they tried their best to hide the button to defer.  I can’t see MS forcing a Win10 > Win11 without an option to stay on 10.

EDIT:

I noticed on the MS site, they mentioned:

“Devices running Home and Pro editions of Windows 11, versions 23H2 and 22H2 that are not managed by IT departments will receive the update automatically. Users can choose the time to restart their device or postpone the update.   “

In the above, it only mentioned editions of Windows 11 receiving the update automatically … not mention of auto update for Win10? … again I interpret this as Win10 will get the option, but Win11 will have 24H2 forced

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Brocktoon wrote:

Is MS saying they will force update Win10 systems to Win11 without a choice?

No:

We are gradually offering this update also to eligible devices running Windows 10, version 22H2.

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Brocktoon

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UPDATE:

I un-paused my windows updates on my Win10 22H2 system this afternoon.  Sure enough MS did offer me Win11 (probably 24H2), but I was able to click ‘stay on windows 10’, and then I was pushed the monthly Win10 updates as expected.

From my experience I can confirm MS may try to offer the Win11 update to Win10 users, but they should have option as I did to stay on win10 for now.

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b

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Brocktoon wrote:

I un-paused my windows updates on my Win10 22H2 system this afternoon.  Sure enough MS did offer me Win11

The majority of home users don’t use any pause… they just let Microsoft updates to install automatically and they will get Windows 11.

You could use InControl to lock your system to 22H2.

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Brocktoon

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Alex5723 wrote:

The majority of home users don’t use any pause… they just let Microsoft updates to install automatically and they will get Windows 11.

… offered. Just as it was in this case:

Brocktoon wrote:

I was able to click ‘stay on windows 10’,

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