Clean Install vs. In Place Upgrade

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I don’t know where this myth came from that a clean install is better than an in place upgrade but it is simply not true. The in place upgrade works smoothly and there is little chance of any software incompatibilities. Any potential problems are identified with the Upgrade Adviser. The ONLY in place upgrade that is possible is from Vista to Windows 7 and it works (as far as I can tell) flawlessly.

If anything, the clean install is likely to present more problems when it comes to finding, installing, and configuring all the applications one might have then installing all the updates to them, and reintegrating all the output from them. And all that assumes there will be no problems with registrations when the applications are reinstalled.

If one is eligible for an in place upgrade, I suggest that is the best path and there would have to be some very good and known reason for electing to do a clean install.

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I don’t know where this myth came from that a clean install is better than an in place upgrade but it is simply not true. The in place upgrade works smoothly and there is little chance of any software incompatibilities. Any potential problems are identified with the Upgrade Adviser. The ONLY in place upgrade that is possible is from Vista to Windows 7 and it works (as far as I can tell) flawlessly.

If anything, the clean install is likely to present more problems when it comes to finding, installing, and configuring all the applications one might have then installing all the updates to them, and reintegrating all the output from them. And all that assumes there will be no problems with registrations when the applications are reinstalled.

If one is eligible for an in place upgrade, I suggest that is the best path and there would have to be some very good and known reason for electing to do a clean install.

Can you site any sources to support your contention ??

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Can you site any sources to support your contention ??

Microsoft!

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Microsoft!

OK… not very reliable and somewhat biased on the subject of their software. Remember they said XP would run on 128MB of RAM and Vista on 512 MB but 1 GB would be better.

And, you did not site the information. Your statement, without a link to supporting documentation is virtually useless.

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I don’t know where this myth came from that a clean install is better than an in place upgrade but it is simply not true.
If one is eligible for an in place upgrade, I suggest that is the best path and there would have to be some very good and known reason for electing to do a clean install.

Well Chet, I think there are some “very good and known reasons” for choosing a clean install.

I would suggest that you do a little more research on this topic before making some pretty questionable statements and recommendations.

As for Doc’s question – “can you cite any sources to support your contention?” – I think you may be searching for a long time.

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Every source I have read concurs that the best approach is a clean install. I have again, read, that many people doing an inplace upgrade have had numerous unexplained complications. If it worked well for you , then good for you, I’m glad you had the success you did. But my belief is that I will continue to follow the experts opinions and recommend those opinions to others as a better alternative.

I clean installed 5 seperate PC’s, both laptop and desktops with great success.

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Chet is either messing with us or doesn’t have enough experience to know which one is the best way to go. I sometimes suggest trying the upgrade path but if it doesn’t work out then be prepared to install clean, which of course almost always works. It can certainly be more inconvienent to get a lot of programs installed and configured properly again though and I don’t need to cite any external sources for these nuggets of wisdom, that’s for sure.

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For reinstalling many of the usual programs check out Ninite.

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I do agree that a clean install will almost always be successful in installing the OS. But, that is only part of a migration. All ‘upgrade’ users must continue with the additional job of installing, updating/patching and configuring all their applications along with reloading the application user data. All these operations present at least a lot of additional manual work and a worst, a lot of grief regarding re-registering the applications.

The Upgrade Adviser will warn of any potential software that may not be able to be migrated in place. An in place upgrade should result in a fully customized working system with all applications in place and working. If it doesn’t, the worst case is having to then do a clean install. An initial clean install will always require a lot of additional work beyond the simple OS installation.

Considering an in place upgrade is always coming from Vista, there is an excellent chance that it will go smoothly.

I too have heard many experts recommend a clean install. It is perhaps the most certain as far as the OS is concerned but certainly not the easiest in terms of the overall system migration. That is probably the biggest reason the ‘experts’ recommend a clean install. The experts are narrowly focused on an OS upgrade whereas the user is (or should be) concerned about the total migration process.

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I too have heard many experts recommend a clean install. It is perhaps the most certain as far as the OS is concerned but certainly not the easiest in terms of the overall system migration. That is probably the biggest reason the ‘experts’ recommend a clean install. The experts are narrowly focused on an OS upgrade whereas the user is (or should be) concerned about the total migration process.

From your posts, I gather that you have not had experience with this your self? I think I understand where you are coming from, which is basically a non-technical user perspective. That said, the recommendation to build cleanly is in fact to save more headaches than create them. It is not a myth. Reinstalling software from scratch is far easier than wrestling with the myriad of in place upgrade issues that one could encounter. The “experts” are often suggesting clean builds due their experience in dealing with catastrophic failures from attempting in place upgrades, not because some white paper says its a good idea. Trust me when I say that the “clean install” recommendation is not a “narrowly focused” thought. Rather is it stated with the full intention of saving users many hours of aggravation, coupled with full knowledge that all applications will have to be installed.

Since it appears that you are looking for info that says in place upgrades are a great idea and never fail, and not finding agreement on this forum, here’s what I suggest: Get Acronis True Image. Make an image of your existing machine. Then try the in place upgrade. If it fails like it has for so many of us that have personally experienced it, then simply bring your image back down and you’re back in business until you can plan for a proper migration. If you are successful with an in place upgrade, I think many us here would love to hear back from you.

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Considering an in place upgrade is always coming from Vista, there is an excellent chance that it will go smoothly.

I’m one for three so far with Vista to 7 but one upgrade failure was caused by underlying chipset drivers so maybe one for two is more accurrate. There are far more individual system configuration interactions than the upgrade advisor can account for in the detail needed to assure a successful inplace upgrade.

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The inplace upgrade does indeed leave installed programs where they were. But think of it: How many of the installed programs are actually used? Or even worse, how many of the installed programs are older versions that may or may not work correctly with Win 7. Yes, you have to reinstall you programs with a clean install. You may have to upgrade a few drivers, but you will end up with a clean, pristine install with all the latest software packages available. You will have far fewer conflicts with different versions trying to run and conflicting with each other. Clean install is best!!!

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To begin with, I have had experience with this issue. I have earned my living in the IT industry for many years and recently retired as a IT Consultant after many years with HP, most recently as a Performance Specialist on theit hp-ux systems. While my work was never devoted to PCs, they were the most common user interface to the systems I dealt with and I have used and abused them since the days when Bill Gates was producing an OS for IBM.

I have updated both my desktop (Acer M5620 with Q6600 CPU, 3 GB memory and 2 TB internal disk on a network that includes NAS drives, network printer as well as my other PC and even a Wii Console) and also laptop on the same network. Both updates were from Vista and were done as in place updates and there was only one hitch in the entire process that Microsoft quickly handled. While the laptop is a relatively simple system, the desktop has a wide range of somewhat unusual software on it. In addition to the two systems of my own, I have done two of my friends systems although one of those was also a very simple system. I did have (and still do have) Acronis and I had a complete image of my system drive on my NAS drive before starting both my updates along wiith a bootable CD.

So don’t try to tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. Sure there are people who have problems doing an in place upgrade. The ones with problems are the only ones you hear about. I am not looking for any kind of confirmation that an inplace upgrade works but I will point out that all the recommendations for a clean install are being offered from a position that lacks any significant experience with an in place upgrade. I am suggesting an in place upgrade has an excellent chance of working and worst case is a second attempt requiring a clean install. A clean install will always produce a significant amount of post clean install work.

Building cleanly will ONLY improve the chances of getting the OS installed. It will always complicate the process of migrating the remainder of the system.

There is little risk to an in place upgrade and much to be gained. I stand by my recommendation for the reasons stated.

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So don’t try to tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.

There is little risk to an in place upgrade and much to be gained. I stand by my recommendation for the reasons stated.

Whoa, settle down. I never said you didn’t know what you were talking about. However, please read all of your posts prior to your last one. Nothing there indicates that you have done this in the past. Can you see why I posted the way I did? From everyone else’s posts, it appears that we all thought you were suggesting this based on only what you have read, and not experience. Perhaps you should have provided a little background first. I certainly would have given an entirely different answer. I’m certainly glad the in place upgrades have worked well for you.

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Chet,
Based on your years of experience you probably maintain your system in a very appropriate manner. I would suspect you keep apps up to date, run up to date virus scanners and malware scanners, clean out unwanted or unneeded files, etc. You are probably in the 5 % or so of users that do this. Unfortunately, the other 95 %, including many readers of this forum do not do, or perhaps know how to do the things you do without thinking about it. Because of this, an inplace update has many more chances of going awry. Yes, this allows the programs to continue, but see my last reply for my ideas on this.
I firmly believe that for the vast majority of users, going to a pristine system using clean install is the best choice. I have read at least 2 of you that the inplace upgrade worked fine, and I applaud you on doing what it takes to keep your system in top notch shape, but for those others, please take everything you read here with a grain of salt and do your research before running the in place upgrade instead of the clean install.

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Chet,
Based on your years of experience you probably maintain your system in a very appropriate manner. I would suspect you keep apps up to date, run up to date virus scanners and malware scanners, clean out unwanted or unneeded files, etc. You are probably in the 5 % or so of users that do this. Unfortunately, the other 95 %, including many readers of this forum do not do, or perhaps know how to do the things you do without thinking about it. Because of this, an inplace update has many more chances of going awry. Yes, this allows the programs to continue, but see my last reply for my ideas on this.
I firmly believe that for the vast majority of users, going to a pristine system using clean install is the best choice. I have read at least 2 of you that the inplace upgrade worked fine, and I applaud you on doing what it takes to keep your system in top notch shape, but for those others, please take everything you read here with a grain of salt and do your research before running the in place upgrade instead of the clean install.

I seriously doubt my systems are anywhere a cleanly maintained as you would like to think. They aren’t even as cleanly maintained as I would like to think. I will concede that I prepared for the upgrades with steps that I am better able to appreciate than many common users. But, by the same token, I would also be better able to do any necessary post clean install work than would be most common users. I still elected to do in place upgrades because of the inherently simpler process, when it works. When it doesn’t work, the clean install is not significantly impacted.

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I’d like to commend you for sticking to your guns. But I don’t believe anyone said you didn’t know what you were talking about. I only asked that you cite your source. Something you still have not done.

I would not expect someone on an internet forum to follow any advice given there unless it is backed it up with factual information from at least one other source. You don’t seem to keen on following the advice to clean install Window 7 for the best results, but only use your personal experience to verify your position.

You’ve been a member here for a month and have made 16 posts to date. How can anyone be expected to accept what you say at face value based on their experience with you here ???

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I’d like to commend you for sticking to your guns. But I don’t believe anyone said you didn’t know what you were talking about. I only asked that you cite your source. Something you still have not done.

I would not expect someone on an internet forum to follow any advice given there unless it is backed it up with factual information from at least one other source. You don’t seem to keen on following the advice to clean install Window 7 for the best results, but only use your personal experience to verify your position.

You’ve been a member here for a month and have made 16 posts to date. How can anyone be expected to accept what you say at face value based on their experience with you here ???

To begin with, I have responded in post #6 with a citation, albeit a rather simple one. I certainly don’t have any additional statistical data to indicate the relative success rates of the two methods under discussion and I seriously doubt anyone has. I have provided the logic behind my reasoning. I have yet to hear any serious challenge to that reasoning. The logic is its own justification. Suggesting I should provide a citation to document research that is very likely non-existent is comparable to me demanding you provide a citation to support the idea that in place upgrades have been statistically shown to be unsatisfactory.

I am sure there are all kinds of opinion out there supporting the idea that Microsoft could not possibly produce a solid migration application but I attribute most of them to the popular fad of “Big Bashing”. In other words, many of these opinions are little more than some pundit pumping his own reputation by claiming he is so much smarter than Big Bad Microsoft. I can most definitely cite numerous examples of similar “Big Bashing” myths including many about Microsoft that, while popular, have proven to be complete fallacies.

My position has been, and continues to be, that there is little risk to attempting an in place upgrade and my experience is that every example that I personally know of supports the idea that the success rate is very good. A clean install starts from the position that there will be a significant post upgrade effort required.

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My position has been, and continues to be, that there is little risk to attempting an in place upgrade and my experience is that every example that I personally know of supports the idea that the success rate is very good. A clean install starts from the position that there will be a significant post upgrade effort required.

My position, also based on many years of experience, knowledge of OSes and upgrades, including Windows 7, is that an in place upgrade is certainly doable, but more often fails than not. I don’t need a running list of statistics to tell me that I am better off avoiding a lot of aggravation. This is one of those threads that is simply going to go no where. Chet, there just isn’t much you are going to be able to say to convince me, or many others, that its worth the extra time and hassle to attempt an in place upgrade. It is of course a difference of opinion, but I can certainly live with that.

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To begin with, I have responded in post #6 with a citation, albeit a rather simple one. I certainly don’t have any additional statistical data to indicate the relative success rates of the two methods under discussion and I seriously doubt anyone has. I have provided the logic behind my reasoning. I have yet to hear any serious challenge to that reasoning. The logic is its own justification. Suggesting I should provide a citation to document research that is very likely non-existent is comparable to me demanding you provide a citation to support the idea that in place upgrades have been statistically shown to be unsatisfactory.

I am sure there are all kinds of opinion out there supporting the idea that Microsoft could not possibly produce a solid migration application but I attribute most of them to the popular fad of “Big Bashing”. In other words, many of these opinions are little more than some pundit pumping his own reputation by claiming he is so much smarter than Big Bad Microsoft. I can most definitely cite numerous examples of similar “Big Bashing” myths including many about Microsoft that, while popular, have proven to be complete fallacies.

My position has been, and continues to be, that there is little risk to attempting an in place upgrade and my experience is that every example that I personally know of supports the idea that the success rate is very good. A clean install starts from the position that there will be a significant post upgrade effort required.

Opinions vary. The facts will always be the same.

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My position has been, and continues to be, that there is little risk to attempting an in place upgrade and my experience is that every example that I personally know of supports the idea that the success rate is very good. A clean install starts from the position that there will be a significant post upgrade effort required.

Chet, it is not clear to me exactly what aspect of in-place upgrades you are defending. If your position is that in-place upgrades will complete successfully, I totally agree with you. However, I must disagree with your assertion that “there is little risk”.

There are a number of reasons an in-place upgrade is risky. With an in-place upgrade all the corrupt and orphaned entries and other nasties present in your current registry will transfer to your new installation. Any issues with installed applications will be inherited by the new system. Many of the ‘annoyances’ experienced on your old system will probably show up in your new one. And that’s just a few off the top of my head.

Will an in-place upgrade work? Of course it will. Should you make an in-place upgrade? Only you can make that determination based on your needs. I think of it as an opportunity for a fresh start free of any old baggage.

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Chet, it is not clear to me exactly what aspect of in-place upgrades you are defending. If your position is that in-place upgrades will complete successfully, I totally agree with you. However, I must disagree with your assertion that “there is little risk”.

There are a number of reasons an in-place upgrade is risky. With an in-place upgrade all the corrupt and orphaned entries and other nasties present in your current registry will transfer to your new installation. Any issues with installed applications will be inherited by the new system. Many of the ‘annoyances’ experienced on your old system will probably show up in your new one. And that’s just a few off the top of my head.

Will an in-place upgrade work? Of course it will. Should you make an in-place upgrade? Only you can make that determination based on your needs. I think of it as an opportunity for a fresh start free of any old baggage.

If any system has issues, annoyances, other nasties and Registry Orphans etc., they are not necessarily migrated with an in place upgrade nor does a clean install necessarily eliminate them – well, perhaps the Registry entries. Any significant problems with an in place upgrade are easily reduced to a level equal to those associated with a clean install simply by abandoning the initial in place upgrade and doing a clean install. There is no mechanism by which a clean install can be made as simple and straight forward as a successful in place upgrade.

I believe most of the reasons behind the practise of going to a clean install stems from practises that predate XP. The Upgrade Adviser does a good job of advising about potential problems and I don’t believe modern systems are plagued with those same problems of a decade ago. At least, I hope Microsoft has learned something and would no longer be so foolish as to turn out either flakey OSs or migration programs. They must be aware that the public will no longer tolerate that sort of nonsense and they have competing companies waiting in the wings just waiting for any stumble. Even when they don’t stumble there are a plethora of pundits more than willing to “create” some imaginary problem along with huge numbers of gullible willing to believe them and blindly repeat the the myths. If there is any company likely to produce flawless software these days it is likely Microsoft. They risk far too much to do otherwise. Yes, yes, I know, everybody has horror stories that they have heard from someone else but one rarely finds basis for these stories or the stories are so old as to be irrelevant.

Anyway, anyone who wants to start from a position that Microsoft software is so seriously flawed that it must be avoided during the installation of more Microsoft software, even though it is process known to require more work and problems than the presumed flawed software in likely to cause is welcome to do so. I just won’t make such a recommendation.

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Hi Chet and welcome

Microsoft has from the beginning recommended a clean install. I have over 9000 posts on another site and most of us do as well. We have just found to many drivers that werent updated, too many errors imported and settings that were not imported correctly. I am sure most upgrades worked. I am also sure that 50% of the BSOD’s I analyze have drivers circa 2004.

Its the old adage you can pay me now or pay me latter. I wipe my Win 7 abt every 3 months just to get back to “clean”

Ken

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We seem to have beaten this thread to death. This is one of those topics that you either feel strongly one way or the other. There seems to be little common ground. I guess my philosophy is whatever works. If you try an in place upgrade and have problems, then you can clean install. If you try Clean Install and have problems, windows.old should allow you to roll back, or if you have a complete image prior to the install, it is a simple matter to go back.

I’m not going to change Chet’s mind, he will not be able to change mine, so let’s move on!!!

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We seem to have beaten this thread to death….

Agreed. This thread is now closed.

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