Circling the tank

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Gregg Keizer at Computerworld has the latest statistics on PC shipments — down between 3% and 4% year-on-year, depending on whether you believe IDC o
[See the full post at: Circling the tank]

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It was clear a while ago that Win 10 was not going to revive PC sales. My own opinion is that Win 10 went from a nuetral to a negative for PC sales.

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flackcatcher, FakeNinja, AlexEiffel, woody, HiFlyer, Cybertooth

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If I had to guess I suspect that users hold on to their current systems longer: Unless very old, systems work just fine and whatever pluses the newer systems offer, they are not critical enough to justify the 1000+ prices and certainly not a new and changing OS, reconfigurations, recustomizations and apps installations. I would suspect that’s now as true of indiv as of enterprise users. Price and effort keep going up for no benefits whatsoever.

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flackcatcher, Charlie, SueW, AlexEiffel, woody, AlanH, HiFlyer, BobbyB

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Fully agree. I changed most critical components of my ~2009 C2Q system (CPU, mainboard, memory, graphics card) this year to see no real benefits in anything but games – and there not an enormous one. Mind you, my system in not hi-end, but still a decent one, and it’s been 8 years…

Any <10 years old computer equipped with 8+ GB RAM and a SSD is capable of doing da-to-day tasks for 90% of PC users.

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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Charlie, AlexEiffel

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It’s the result of a failure to invent something new that is really useful.  Maybe it was inevitable.  Many have moved on to other devices, as we are constantly told.  I for one still use the desktop computer and so lament that its developers have moved on.

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flackcatcher, Charlie, SueW, Microfix, ch100, HiFlyer

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I have often stated the PC market is a mature market looking for equilibrium. Unless a new feature is released that requires improved hardware, older hardware will work just fine for most. So most will not buy until the old beast dies or is on death’s door. Also, it is not very difficult to find good, refurbished laptops (say 3 years old) that will more than adequate for many. Like the article notes, I do not expect a marked increase of sales to as W7 and W8.1 reach EOL.

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flackcatcher, FakeNinja, HiFlyer

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I would have been in the market to upgrade to a new laptop. I might even have been interested in the new W 10 features… but telemetry, perpetual change, deceptive practices and advertising killed it for me. Interesting that the article was looking at W 10 to improve sales, but the decline accompanies  W 10 being the only Windows operating system available on new hardware. Funny that isn’t mentioned as a factor by Gregg Keizer. I will nurse this laptop along… for as long as it lasts… Family and friends doing the same thing with their systems, staying on Win 7 and Win 8. Hoping, against hope, that Microsoft will come to their senses and offer the operating system their (past) customers want…

Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

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Bill C., flackcatcher, dhardyindr, Charlie, AlexEiffel, FakeNinja, SueW, Microfix, Jan K., HiFlyer, Cybertooth, AJNorth, Sessh, BobbyB

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Yes, agree. And if my present 2013 OEM Win 7 computer goes kaput, I will likely buy a refurb computer and put Linux on it since I only do basic stuffs on the computer.

People need to avoid buying super-cheap new OEM Win 10 2-in-1 tablets that may be EOL-ed by M$ after about 3 years and high-end new OEM Ultrabooks that may have Win 10 preinstalled in fake-RAID disk mode using proprietary Intel RST, which prevents Linux from being installed as a dual-boot, eg Dell XPS 15, Lenovo Yoga & Ideapads, etc. Even reinstalling Win 10 on such Ultrabooks is a problem. Installing Linux or Win 7/8.1 on them will also be a problem.

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Bill C., Cybertooth, FakeNinja

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In addition to older hardware continuing to still be usable, it’s that a lot of people are using desktops and laptops less and less.  Like a lot of IT people, my home is unusually high in computers.  Three desktops, two HTPCs, a laptop my wife and I share, one for each daughter in college.  But in all honesty, unless I’m working I spend a lot more time on my phone or my iPad than any of my “real” computers.

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From Keizer’s article:

The only thing keeping the business from a complete collapse, Huang added, is the ongoing need for corporate PCs.

Huang makes the obvious sound like some dramatic new revelation. The ongoing need for corporate PCs is the only thing that has EVER kept PC sales going. There have never been anywhere near enough sales in the retail market to support the industry. This is nothing new.

Huang asserted that migrations to Windows 10 would drive the commercial shipment numbers. Enterprises have until January 2020 to abandon Windows 7. “Windows 10 is what is going to keep the [PC] market afloat for the next two to three years,” said Huang.

I don’t draw the same conclusion. To me, this says that corporations will be hanging on to Windows 7 for the next two to three years, rather than that Windows 10 will keep it afloat for the next two to three years. And when Windows 7 is no longer supported, who knows what direction things will take?

It doesn’t sound like IDC analyst Linn Huang has any new ideas, but she sure knows how to make the obvious sound like great analysis.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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flackcatcher, SueW

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Ever since the financial crisis in 2008, the world has changed and not necessarily for the better, it’s just where we are just now, whether we like it or not. This has affected business and attitudes despite the advancement of technology. Using flashy new technology and gimmicks, only to trick people into supplying personal data, is old news and unfortunately, still goes on today. Is it any wonder device sales are on the decline?

Attitudes need to change at MS and a new positive direction is needed, as one little word that means so much to people, has been violated..

TRUST!

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Charlie, FakeNinja, SueW, David F

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My household has an older desktop running Win 7 and two laptops with 8.1 that I bought as soon as I had read about Windows 10.  There is also one Amazon tablet that I only use for Tune-In radio and occasional web browsing in bed. No “smart phone”.

It’s strange, people want a 65″ tv but are more than happy to stream video on a dinky 6″ screen.

My folks had to buy a Win 10 laptop when their old Win 7 bit the dust. They have never been more unhappy with a purchase.

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This more like evolution in action than anything else. Sooner or later a solution, to what  we considered the basics of computing, would push the bulk of  people away from the retail  PC market. Steve Jobs saw this coming in the late 80’s, but the technology was not mature enough for the consumer market. It’s not Bill Gates was wrong, in his belief that desktop would become a hub. He like most, could not see the speed of growth and maturity on the hardware side of the industry. Unlike Apple, Microsoft’s response is seen as more knee jerk and lacking a clear vision. As a boss, I believe both are correct in the long term. PCs on the hardware side are increasing in power and complexity and are far more reliable than even a decade ago. Heck, mobile computing has entered the realm of science fiction. We don’t even understand what smart phones  are doing to our civil socities  on a  macro scale. Regardless, this will even out, and the PC retail market will make a comeback. In what form that is, is unknown.

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HiFlyer, AlexEiffel, ch100

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anonymous wrote:

Yes, agree. And if my present 2013 OEM Win 7 computer goes kaput, I will likely buy a refurb computer and put Linux on it since I only do basic stuffs on the computer. People need to avoid buying super-cheap new OEM Win 10 2-in-1 tablets that may be EOL-ed by M$ after about 3 years and high-end new OEM Ultrabooks that may have Win 10 preinstalled in fake-RAID disk mode using proprietary Intel RST, which prevents Linux from being installed as a dual-boot, eg Dell XPS 15, Lenovo Yoga & Ideapads, etc. Even reinstalling Win 10 on such Ultrabooks is a problem. Installing Linux or Win 7/8.1 on them will also be a problem.

Is there any way to tell, before buying, whether the machine that one is thinking of getting has the latter issue that prevents Linux from being installed?

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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The Intel RST driver is the SATA driver for just about ever Intel motherboard out there, having it won’t tell you what mode the motherboard is set to or capable of.

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Yup, also not needed unless the machine uses a caching SSD or RAID. I setup Windows to use the default MS SATA drivers for all others, cuts out loading an extra 2+ drivers that offer little to nothing.

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I’ve found the Intel drivers are usually better than the Microsoft default SATA drivers.

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So, short of taking the new machine home and trying to put Linux on it, is there any way to tell if it will or won’t allow installation of an alternative OS?

I guess I just don’t know what that “fake-RAID disk mode” is.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Cybertooth wrote:

Is there any way to tell, before buying, whether the machine that one is thinking of getting has the latter issue that prevents Linux from being installed?

Cybertooth wrote:

So, short of taking the new machine home and trying to put Linux on it, is there any way to tell if it will or won’t allow installation of an alternative OS?

You can run Linux (most distros, I think) directly from a DVD; you don’t have to install it on your hard drive. This will allow you to test your computer to see if Linux will work on it, prior to installing it.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Cybertooth

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Good idea.

Heh-heh, I could take a Linux live DVD into the store, try to reboot the machine, and see what happens…

But, what about a computer that’s sold online and not at a store?

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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What return policy do they have. You could say you didn’t like it and return it.

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They’d probably freak out if they saw Linux on one of their display computers!

As for buying a computer online, buy it from OfficeDepot.com. Or you could buy it from Walmart.com, and make sure that the vendor is Walmart (not one of the other vendors who sells at that site). If there’s a problem, you can return it at your local Office Depot or Walmart.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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