• CIA is spying on USA citizens and residents illegally, senators claim.

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    #2424880

    Years ago, in 2015, we had PRISM, copiously denounced by whistle-blower Snowden, who then had to haul his backside over half the world to end up, after serious efforts to stop and catch him — including the intercept of the flight of the head of state of a mostly friendly nation which was going to bring him, as a refugee, back with him — instead in Russia, as Putin’s forced guest.
    That was all about the National Security Agency’s “Prism” program.
    Now there are news that the CIA, by law constrained to spy only overseas and on those residents clearly suspect of being foreign agents, is also doing its thing with its own unsupervised intercepts’ vacuum cleaner:

    Officially, the CIA and National Security Agency (NSA) have a foreign surveillance mission and domestic spying is prohibited by the CIA’s 1947 charter.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60351768

    Excerpts:

    Then:

    “[In 2015] A Washington Post analysis of the Snowden leak found some 90% of those being monitored were ordinary Americans “caught in a net the National Security Agency had cast for somebody else“. ”

    Top officials had until then denied – and even lied under oath to Congress – that they were knowingly collecting such data.

    The programme, known as Prism, was later ruled unlawful by a US court.”

    Officially, the CIA and National Security Agency (NSA) have a foreign surveillance mission and domestic spying is prohibited by the CIA’s 1947 charter.

    But in 2013, a programme of data collection using extensive internet and phone surveillance by American intelligence was disclosed to the public by Edward Snowden, an NSA contractor-turned whistle-blower.

    ….

    Now:

    The CIA released a declassified report on one of the programmes on Thursday, but declined to declassify the other, citing the need to protect “sensitive tradecraft methods and operational sources.

    But Mr Wyden, of Oregon, and Mr Heinrich, of New Mexico, said by failing to do so the agency was “undermin[ing] democratic oversight and pos[ing] risks to the long-term credibility of the Intelligence Community”.

    The senators, who sit on the Intelligence committee, said the public deserved to know “the nature and full extent” of the surveillance, which is all but certain to include records on Americans.

    The still-classified programme operates under the authority of a Reagan-era executive order and is therefore “entirely outside the statutory framework that Congress and the public believe govern this collection,” they said.

    The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) non-profit said: “These reports raise serious questions about what information of ours the CIA is vacuuming up in bulk and how the agency exploits that information to spy on Americans”.

    “In the course of any lawful collection, CIA may incidentally acquire information about Americans who are in contact with foreign nationals,” a CIA spokesman told BBC News on Friday.

    “When CIA acquires information about Americans, it safeguards that information in accordance with procedures,” set out to restrict how it can use the data, the spokesman added.”

    Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

    MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
    Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
    macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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    • #2424932

      Haha, what on earth for should anyone spy on USAcitizens? Isn’t that just talk for comics?

      * _ ... _ *
      • #2424933

        Fred: I you read the article, you’ll find the answer to your question. It’s pretty simple.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #2424939

          The question is: Why should anyone spy on USAcitizens? 

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          • #2425071

            It seems to me that this is not a question of “why should anyone”: it is one of “having the means to, why not?”

            The likely result: millions of perfectly OK citizens now may have each an electronic dossier in some CIA and NSA servers, as if they were suspect of being spies, traitors, or having committed serious crimes; dossiers readily available to be used against them for more than questionable, actually illegal and unconstitutional reasons, and at the disposal of future and for now potential tyrants to justify persecuting and also, now and then, “disappearing” (without the need to justify), whomever they so wished. It can’t happen here, you think? The table has been served, all that is not here yet are the hungry diners.

            Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

            MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
            Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
            macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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    • #2424963

      Speaking as one who was on the inside albeit 20 years ago, Facebook, Google, etc. know more about you than the CIA!

      May the Forces of good computing be with you!

      RG

      PowerShell & VBA Rule!
      Computer Specs

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2425072

        But they are nowhere as scary!

        And you don’t know that FB and Google have more information, because nobody really knows. Not even the spooks, I’d hazard.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2425249

      This is disquieting, but most of you should know that the United States Government has a side door to begin tracking your on-line movements without directly involving the CIA or NSA. It is a (founding?) member of the Fourteen Eyes survellance alliance.

      There may be U.S. laws preventing the CIA and the NSA from “spying” on you, but those laws do not apply to the other countries in the alliance! So if the U.S.A. really wants to learn what you are doing, it sends a request to one of the other countries (e.g.: Australia) in the alliance to do so.

      Why would it want to do so? Perhaps it considers you a potential offender of any of these classes:

      • Terrorist
      • Drug dealer
      • Child abuser
      • Copyright violator


      Anyhow, the U.S.A. winds up with your data. While I suspect {oops} it is mostly concentrating on mobile telephones, it is device-blind. So even a Chromebook could be tracked.

      Important links you can use, without the monetization pitch = https://pqrs-ltd.xyz/bookmark4.html
      • #2425296

        Steve: “So if the U.S.A. really wants to learn what you are doing, it sends a request to one of the other countries (e.g.: Australia) in the alliance to do so.

        That is quite true and, whether one likes it or not, also not quite illegal, but the concern here is not about those whom the Fourteen Eyes alliance can be used to track, monitor or catch for reasons that, rightly or not, is argued concern national security, but all the other people who got their information vacuumed improperly and illegally by the CIA and the NSA simply because, at these agencies they used, to get some data on persons of interest, vacuum cleaners that are too powerful. Now the citizens whose personal data should not have been part of the intended hauls have dossiers that may be inactive, but are being kept around and can be activated if someone in a position to do so decides to use them to persecute people extrajudicially, using some less than admirable conduct registered there as the excuse, or to blackmail them with the threat of doing that to them, or to someone they care about. Among other forms of abuse of power that having this information illegally obtained and hidden from proper Congressional oversight makes possible.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

    • #2425335

      The FBI can, has, is, and will continue to spy on Americans.  Been doing that since it was founded. Yet some of us find it disturbing that the CIA does it?   Are they more threatening than the FBI? I agree their charter clearly states that’s not their mission.  But that would have to be addressed and remedied through congress.  And there aren’t a lot of people on Capital Hill with the backbone to go up against three-letter agencies.

      "War is the remedy our enemies have chosen. And I say let us give them all they want" ----- William T. Sherman

      • #2425367

        The FBI is the USA’s functioning national police, same as the one in any other country with a working government, meaning any country that is not a failed state run in fact by some local mafia, or mafias. The FBI, being that national police and the USA not being a failed state, is supposed by law to catch criminals guilty of federal crimes inside the USA. For that, which is police work, it does resort to communication intercepts and to snitches. Whether we like this or not. As any big organization with police powers, it has been known to abuse them. But that is not the story in consideration here, in this thread. To those who want to make known their criticisms of the FBI: please start your own thread.

        The CIA and the NSA, on the other hand, by law, are confined to taking care of business outside the USA. And by illegally spying on private individuals and private business at home, and indiscriminately at that, as it has been know since Snowden spilled the beans at the NSA’s “Prism” little personal information vacuuming project more than ten years ago, and now people in Congress are doing this with those at the CIA, these two agencies have been blatantly breaking the law to spy at home on many citizens, that not all may be perfect, but whose imperfections are none of the CIA or of the NSA business. By law.

        Those suspect of being involved in espionage, treason or terrorism inside the USA are in the province of the FBI and the intelligence agencies, such as these here under discussion, must pass their information on them to the former.

        https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/17/4517480/nsa-spying-prism-surveillance-cheat-sheet

        If others are fine with the way things are, I am not. If someone thinks this is not a big deal, because of whatever else, I disagree.

        And having had, to my considerable surprise, to explain these very basic facts more than once already, I am done giving civics lessons for free.

        Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

        MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
        Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
        macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #2425390

          https://www.theverge.com/2013/7/17/4517480/nsa-spying-prism-surveillance-cheat-sheet If others are fine with this, I am not. If someone thinks this is not a big deal, because of whatever else, I disagree. And having had, to my considerable surprise, to explain these very basic facts more than once already, I am done giving civics lessons for free.

          So as a very dumb individualistic question: What and how are people going to correct (set right) these malbehaviour spying on citizens? Making the general public aware? Seeking collaboration with the Eu?

          * _ ... _ *
          • #2425396

            By supporting those who are trying to end this and opposing those that believe that’s OK, or no big deal, for it to continue.

            Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

            MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
            Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
            macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

        • #2425415

          And we are going to keep this thread civil otherwise it will be shut down.  First warning.

          Sincerely, the buck stops here with me and I make the final decision.

          Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

    • #2425395

      Adding to my previous comment and before someone asks:

      Where I wrote “Those suspect of being involved in espionage, treason or terrorism inside the USA are in the province of the FBI and the intelligence agencies, such as these here under discussion, must pass their information on them to the former.

      There is a procedure for this, and involves a permission to be obtained by intelligence agencies to investigate and gather that information on individuals at home that is then to be passed on to the appropriate authorities with national jurisdiction to take action as needed. This is a permission given by a court constituted under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA):

      https://www.intelligence.gov/index.php/ic-on-the-record-database/results/574-protecting-u-s-person-identities-in-fisa-disseminations

      Excerpt:

      For example, to conduct electronic surveillance targeting someone inside the United States, FISA requires that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) find that there is probable cause to believe that the target is a foreign power or an agent of a foreign power.

      Not the same as vacuuming personal information en masse and in secret, without getting case by case court-given authorizations. “Because it was necessary.”

      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom: it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

      William Pitt, British Prime Minister (1783–1801 and 1804–6).
      During a speech, House of Commons, 18 November 1783.

      Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

      MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
      Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
      macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

      • #2425428

        “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom: it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” William Pitt, British Prime Minister (1783–1801 and 1804–6). During a speech, House of Commons, 18 November 1783.

        And we are going to keep this thread civil otherwise it will be shut down.  First warning.

        So the future is to make money in the “Metaverse”, and all civilisation will be gone. I rest my case.

        * _ ... _ *
        • #2425430

          And now we are in trouble.

          Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

          MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
          Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
          macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

          1 user thanked author for this post.
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